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hypothetical possibility
- BK could be over in 2020 - ~3 years not Hypothetical. That is the LIMIT. It will be over in 2020
How can you be so sure 2020 is the limit? Admistrators can ask another extenion of plan trust. Some hyper-magic-unpredictable circumstences and poof ... extension granted.
NOLs can by carry forwarded up to 20 years. In most pessimistic case we are almost half way done and the other half is still ahead. I repeat this is most pessimistic scenario. I know the general feeling ... I'm tried as hell of this saga too but afer all those ups and down and twists and turns I would not be that surprised if we get another plan trust extenion in the end of 2019. Sorry for the downbeat tone.
Toogood ... I'd be thankful if you could take a minute or two and read the article that I posted in post 72968. Would be interesting to hear your comments on this.
TIA,
Slim
While we are in the waiting mode and there’s not much to do but wait for MORs and balance sheets and post links of songs in the middle I would leave here also one link. This song with it’s very basic videoslide and wordless message has amazing similarity with the Lehman saga in this forum.
Notice how the tune goes round’n round like the topics here, and it starts to be annoing and yet addicting and same time you start waiting for something new, some development and yet it goes round’n round and it sounds good .... and then the titel “Bad Karma” with the road that diverges .... and those fu++ing 8 years day in and day out of checking the forum and dockets .... arrrgghhh. This song nails it.
PS: You need proper bass speakers to hear thunder rumble of the “Perfect Storm”. Do not even try to listen it with your PC speakers or Iphone earplugs. I guess cars like Dnoto’s Jag has proper equipent to max out this song.
PPS: As most of you here are 50 or 60 years old it is probably not the gerne of music you listen every day but I guess anybody who has been here for 8 years get’s the vibe.
Axel Thesleff - Bad Karma
Merging with Lehman does not make sense. Both companies have same ca 50B NOL that needs to be utilized ASAP. Otherwise the value of the NOL will be cut approximately 23B if corporate tax is cut to 20% from current 35%.
We have almost same situation in Lehman case, don't we?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/10/business/trump-fannie-mae-freddie-mac.html?ref=dealbook
The assets that could be subject to a write-down came about during the mortgage crisis, when Fannie and Freddie were generating losses. Under accounting rules, when money-losing companies become profitable again — as both Fannie and Freddie did in 2013 — they are allowed to use past losses to reduce taxable income in the future. Losses that can be used in such a way become deferred tax assets.
As of September 2016, the value of both companies’ deferred tax assets stood at $53.8 billion. But under a lower corporate tax rate, the value of those deferred tax assets declines, as Fitch Ratings noted in a report dated last Tuesday. If corporate tax rates fell to 20 percent from the current 35 percent, for example, the companies would have to write down the value of those assets by $23 billion, Fitch said, creating the need for a taxpayer draw to cover those losses.
Special day today.....8th anniversary. Cheers to everyone who's on board! Hopefully this wait comes to an end in coming 2-3 years.
After eight years of waiting and after 7 pints today I give you exact date. It will be delisted exactly when it was delisted and not a second later.
Wow,docket shows Syncora has 1,3B claim and that is settled now.
Huge IF there are a good amount of subs in the green. ALL subsidiary companies of Lehman will all have to hand over cash if they are not in the red.
IMO-GLTA
Why only cash? IMHO all the separately administrated entyties assets and liabilities will also be consolidated back to LBHI's balance sheet. This is how the big assets deficite was created first and this is how it will be eliminated.
Fact is I'm not going to sell one share.
Fact is a fact.
Sorry, I probably did not ask my question in right way. I ment the BK's other than Wamu. I got impression from your post that you have followed more than Wamu and Lehman Ch 11 administrations. The reason I am asking this is because it seems it is highly unusual that equity rights are "preserved" the way Lehman is doing it.
Apple and oranges? Which one are you talking about, the first thing or the second thing?
Better read this.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/6195059/Lehman-collapse-PwCs-Tony-Lomas-sees-20-year-slog-to-unravel-biggest-bankruptcy.html
Lomas said this:
"I could easily see these issues going on for the next 10 years – even 20," he said. "And I'm absolutely certain that I would have retired before the case comes to an end."
And they are done with 7 years. All creditors paid off 100% plus interests.
Same pattern is everywhere, in Asia, Australia, continental Europe. You like to repeat the liquidation mantra. Ask this question --- were all those subsidiaries liquidated after they paid off their creditors???
Somebody correct me if i'm wrong but that 7B cash surplus from LBIE is peanuts. Why nobody is mentioning the LBIE assets that generated the cash to pay off liabilities. LBHI should get back the control of those assets too now that the liabilities are gone. Those assets are there real deal that should make the difference in the end of the day.
7th anniversary. Wow. Somewhat unbelievable.
Believers as we are one positive thing about this anniversary came to my mind. Cycles of seven ... remember the hard 7 years followed by prosperous 7 years in Bible. Same analogy in numerous other life, body etc theories.
So, for optimists 7 bad years are over and whatever comes should be way better compared to what we had. How's that thought working for you :) :) :)
Cheers.
Slim
K's have some volume today.
Hmmm, wierd thing with K's. I tried to insert buy order but got a message that I do not have rights to trade the security. Then tried to sell 10 of my K's and got the same message. Can any of the board members try insert K order. Sell or buy does not matter. Is it accepted by your broker?
Ty
Slim
So your saying the claims against LBHI are like everything around here one day will just get up and walk off the balance sheet?
No, I am not saying it. Lehman is saying it. Ask yourself why would they even bother to reflect it on balance sheet as a separate line and figure if all of it is so dead sure liability. If it is a liability it would be reflected few lines above in balance sheet.
I don't know if they are able to get rid of all of the claims that are subject to compromise. Probably not. But I really hope that after 3-4 more years waiting this number is significantly smaller.
Stocs said:
New LBHI numbers..
Assets 36,912 billion
Liabilities 237,317 billion
In the crapper for 200,305 billion
Mods sticky this please April 2 2015 balance sheet!!
I think it would be fair to mention that liabilities subject to compromise is 217 Billion. That's also in this same balance sheet.
Hard work, hard work. You really have to reply every post around the clock that has something on the positive side?
If you are still accumulating I understand and cheers!
I agree it's creditors bankruptcy.
Claims .... nice try. Please remind us what was the original sum of filed claims. Poof, like hot air out of arse. Dissallowed, reclassified, regnegotaited, settled etc, etc. I've been waitng over six years. I can wait another 3-4 years. Not a problem.
POR is still in place you are still over 200 billion in debt.
And let's not forget that over 200 billion is subject to compromise also.
Still over 200 billion in debt.. Still have the POR.
Just a minor complement to the 200B debt quote .... from that same balance sheet: Liabilities Subject to Compromise 233 billion.
I agree with you. If it was technical error it would have been corrected already. If it is like it is told in customers accounts, shares are cancelled then they would have simply confirmed it. This long silence should mean something else. something is going on behind the scenes.
just my 2 cents
Here's a happy thought. I woke up this morning with a "millionaire feeling". Anybody else feeling the vibe?
____________________________________________________
It always goes against what the debtor,creditors,POR tell us.
____________________________________________________
And also the sum they already payed out goes against what the debtor, creditors, POR tell us.
Black magic indeed!
Slim
Thats awesome information. Hope we continue to see those transfers.
Go Lehman!!!
I'm bidding LEHNQ 4300 shares @ 0.2099
Somebody sell me those worthless papers.
New balance sheet will be out in coming weeks. It should have been out already.
Just epic how this scene sums up today's board "developments". What a great dialogue.
Yep, the 90 million is the main thing but I also noticed the meetings with Fuld. Why the hell he even has to bring up that he time to time runs into Fuld?
Although the Lehman wounds remain raw at Neuberger, the move appears to be more business than personal. Mr. Walker says he runs into Richard S. Fuld Jr., Lehman’s final chief executive, from time to time and does not seem to bear him any ill will.
Thanks Joyce. You posted the actual link last week.
What is very interesting is that there is clear pattern how these news come out. About 2-3 years ago we had similar news about Asian and Australian subsidiaries, creditors who held the bonds got all back, then about 1-2 year ago we started to get same kind of news about European subsidiaries and now finally about LBHI. I think and hope we will hear more similar news in coming months.
Cheers! It's been long and a bit frustrating wait but it certainly seems that things are moving in right direction and hopefully end is near.
Sig, I do not have the SIPA proceedings unsecured creditors list list but you can probably find it from Epic.
http://dm.epiq11.com/LBI/Project#
For example if you go to the webpage you can see under Latest New SIPA proceedings lates balance sheet: 7,44B assets / 32,1 B liabiliteis. 28,9 B of that 32,1 B is unsecured.
Hope this helps.
Cheers!
slim
Hold on guys. I think this quote you are reffering was from article that was about Giddens case.... meaning you are talking about Lehman Brothers Inc (SIPA proceeding). Our CTs are in Lehman Brothers HOLDING inc proceeding. Perhaps these cases will be somehow "consolidated" infuture???. Don't get me wrong I would love to see us get paid in September but but ..... I'm not that sure about it.
Cheers
slim
You'll find all the MORs and balance sheets:
http://dm.epiq11.com/LBH/Project#
then
Key Documents
then
"Document Categories" on the left
choose
"Monthly operating reports" .... That folder contains all the MORs and Balance Sheets... 4 pages.
MOR should be out any day too. Regarding balance sheet it's simply time for that. Previous years it's been released in July. Simply waiting for it because updated A/L could move PPS if there's any significant change. Hopefully. Maybe it's just another non-event document and more waiting after that.
I am very sure there are at least few hundred people who never post but follow the board daily. This stand up comedy clip is for you. Some interesting similarities with todays posts :)
List of Institutions holding CTs according to FINRA
It's end of Q2 and it seems this data is updated quarterly. Let's see in a few days/weeks if there is any "big" change in this list.
Kinda short is that list. Contrary to our boards wide spread opinion that big boys are holding the majority it seems that retail investors are holding most of the CTs.
LEHKQ
http://finra-markets.morningstar.com/MarketData/EquityOptions/detail.jsp?query=22:0P000083A6
State Ins Fd Workers' Compensation Fd 20,000 shares 12/31/2013
Private Trust Co Na 1,925 shares 03/31/2014
Columbia Management Investment Advisers, 500 shares 03/31/2014
Total: Top 3 institutions 22,425 shares
LEHLQ
http://finra-markets.morningstar.com/MarketData/EquityOptions/detail.jsp?query=22:0P000083A7
Catholic Life Ins 500,000 shares 12/31/2013
America First Fin Inst Mgt LLC 6,000 shares 03/31/2014
State Ins Fd Workers' Compensation Fd 10,000 shares 12/31/2013
American Home Life Ins Co 10,000 shares 12/31/2013
Westport Resources Management Inc 1,600 shares 03/31/2014
Total: Top 5 institutions 527,600 shares
LEHNQ
http://finra-markets.morningstar.com/MarketData/EquityOptions/detail.jsp?query=22:0P000083A8
First Catholic Slovak Union of USA & CA 8,0000 shares 12/31/2013
Columbia Management Investment Advisers, 650 shares 03/31/2014
Total: Top 2 institutions 8,650 shares
LHHMQ
http://finra-markets.morningstar.com/MarketData/EquityOptions/detail.jsp?query=22:0P000083A5
American Equity Investment Life Ins Co 80,000 shares 12/31/2013
American Home Life Ins Co 4,000 shares 12/31/2013
First Catholic Slovak Union of USA & CA 16,000 shares 12/31/2013
Redwood Investments, LLC 1,000 shares 03/31/2014
Total: Top 4 institutions 101,000 shares