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There are two paragraphs given prominence
("I want to highlight a couple of very important points")
dealing with insiders not selling off, and in fact wishing they could add to their position. I cannot get over the impession that this message is a thinly veiled suggestion that the long-suffering shareholders consider adding to their position before the meeting. Despite the "safe harbor" clause about not controling the timing, I find this extraordinary.
It seems a huge risk to take just to attempt to do the right thing (maybe)for us fellow-travellors. JG would just not do that for a number of good reasons. Unless,...what?
I will vote and will vote Dread goes.
You are quite correct that no one knows the Gleasmans side of this including me. So I was wrong to say that "blackmail" was over the top. I simply felt that there was no threat possible that the Gleasmans would not laugh out the door, and so no one would try. But I don't know.
Still, I do not see how the threat might be that he would poor-mouth stock he owned. "Take one more step and I'll blow my brains out." I don't get it. But again I don't know.
I do know, in reviewing some old posts I objected to and reflecting, that they were often gratuitously negative, and I said something of the sort in my last post. I was objecting to the extreme tone of the criticism but I was not defending any of what he was saying which at times seemed deliberately bent on harm. If I knew the Gleasmans side, I might not object to even the tone.
I think Dread should go and give us all a chance to talk sense about Torvec. Whoever succeeds him is just another shareholder though, IMO, and entitled to no more credence than, say, me.
Point of Order.
Listen, The I-hub's term "moderator" has the connotation if not direct denotation of impartial or objective. It is an unfortunate label for the role Dread took on. A better term would have been facilitor. He is not obliged to be neutral or positive but that is what is beneath everyone's upset though they profess that, sure, it is his right to speak his mind.
I am pretty fed up with his near relentless gloom and doom but I have to speak up against some of what it going on. This all offends my Yankee sense of fair play.
This talk of blackmail and tout is way over the top. Show some restraint. He has shown himself many times to be even-handed. If he is getting fed up, that is not a greater offense in him than in any shareholder you disagree with. And how many of you pile on those other negative posters? You pile on Him because he is the "moderator" and supposed to be...what? Moderate? If you find him excessively negative then you have the right to post positive views, excessively.
If Sullivan knew about this, and Jim followed his advice, then this is all fair, as in love and war. And this is a kind of war Torvec is in.
And it is not at all unusual for someone to take something on gratis for, e.g. an easy example, a charity, and then gets rode hard and put up wet, and says if this is to go on, you should compensate me.
"I think TOVC has a better chance of being embraced in this turmoil than in the static conditions in detroit the last few years."
I agree with that. But who has an opinion on whether we want this embrace or not. They can't get the money can they? And do we want the stock? I'm asking because I don't know.
Perhaps a license or joint venture would impress the marketplace though no immediate funds flowed. But then there is the problem of tying up patents with a party that is ill-equiped to exploit them.
The logic of his rule still holds.
If the price is obviously down out of fear or panic, it is below value, whether speculative or not. And to despair that the ship is sinking when 14,000 some shares out of 15 Million is traded is silly.
Also I would expect some sales for a tax loss; I would also expect some purchases after New Years.
No, the guys on the Titanic showed more nerve.
None of this can be about fundamentals. Is this supposed to be the leading edge of 3700 shareholders cashing out for tax or any other reasons and selling their 15,000,000 shares? 14,200 shares!
I know Warren Buffet says that his rule is to buy when people are scared and sell when they get cocky. And buy is just what he has recently done.
That is good information and thanks.
Kind of puts some of the remarks on this board into some perspective. Lots of people out there who stand and wait.
Torvec's involvement with Lockheed is known.
It was urged by Clinton, and I thought, acknowledged by the local paper, Torvec, and Lockheed itself. I myself would not expect a veil of secrecy to descend. There should be some bubbly going around by all involved and I bet there was.
And what has changed is indded not huge but significant: we are in the finals as you say of a big game; and, this little speculative company is less so than a day ago. And it should become a little more widely known. The latter is what I want to see and if that is expecting too much I do not see why.
Is that "do" as in dog do?
Actually--I was not going to say it before--but actually, I found your previous post about no JV's now positively bewildering.
I did not say they ended.
I asked because I do not know. I can't get over how people talk past each other on this board.
Also, IMO who is not such a big deal. There must be lots of companies besides the big three who could meet the expected and hoped for demand.
"I am not telling tales out of school when I say that we are now poised---and are deeply involved
in discussions with---- a number of companies for, at a minimum, one or more joint venture
relationships involving significant investment dollars to Torvec."
That from JG in a Aug 19 post by tovc4me. I wonder where that is today because as I said earlier, even such an agreement(s) would bring very significant national attention to Torvec and you don't have to wait for the purchase orders to start.
Humorless chap. Please answer my question.
Why should we care financially?
Do you mean if the USAF has lots of uses for it then they will buy lots more of them? OK, I see that. Otherwise, they can be used to deliver pizza for all I care.
I don't know how you do what you
are talking about but if you do, I hope you do.
Did not seek to give offense.
Only meant you were being very cool about something I thought was very hot news. Thanks for the info.
Such detachment today, Allnumbers! EOM
Sorry, this is what I left out...
The Air Force also intends to demonstrate the vehicle within other agencies of the Department of Defense, the Department of Homeland Security (Science and Technology Division), the Department of the Interior(Forestry and U.S. Park Service), federal emergency agencies such as FEMA as well as federal and state governmental agencies involved in securing U.S. borders. Demonstrations are also planned with civilian emergency response communities, such as the Firefighters Association of California.
This is terrific.
Good for you, Dread. I agree. EOM
Really staggering stupidity & cravenness.
So their constituants will be angty if they vote for the package? How angry after they lose their jobs, houses? What is really meant is that if they vote for it their constituents will not see what they did was necessary to avoid much worse, and therefore, not RE-ELECT them.
While kind of interesting, the survey
is only relevant if the company is being sold on Ebay.
There are ways to value these things. The company has made the analysis of markets, potential market penetration, and other things I don't know, and then, as I understand it, made a large discount. The other companies need a REASON for the number being lower.
What happens? Well its a lot harder to jump out of office buildings these days, I know that.
All these years people have been betting money against Torvec and frankly I could see where they were coming from at that time. Small company, family led, valuable properties that no self-respecting corporate giant would pay value for, so, crush it like a bug.
But now it has defied these odds-makers, advancing steadily, debt free, income, willing investors in reserve for cash, and now...buyers. So why act like Torvec was the only game in town and persist in this scorched earth stuff? Find another small company to destroy. You don't win them all in the stock market. These days, I just don't get it. But I don't think they are leaving.
blue
I dunno. But its 2 years old. EOM
Yes. I am. Knot EOM
Someone likes lemonade, Knot EOM
I did not know you had limited discussion
on this board to insider trading. OK, regarding that, by your logic an insider in any company must continually be buying its stock--however much he holds--or he has demonstated a lack of confidence in the prospects of his company. If that is not an accurate assessment of your point, tell me when it is permissible to stop buying according to your rule.
I'll reply to your last latest post,
by asking for another of your expert opinions: What do you think of someone who puts his money in a lemon stock and then tries his utmost to drive the price down? I would not trust his facts, opinions, or sanity. What about you? This is a hypothetical.
Got it. Thank you Dino. EOM
By not possible I meant
I thought MM's were not obliged to fill such a large order at a single ask price. I guess I am wrong about that.
Would not have thought it possible.
Have you an interpretation?
And you, dread!! EOM
IMO it is not off topic.
I don't want to make a huge deal out of this, but as I stated in an earlier post, I am very gratified that a person of Mr. Flaum's accomplishment and community standing is serving on our board. No one is making him do it. And for me, from the point of view of my investment, it gives me added confidence in the quality of corporate guidence both from the board and from management. This new distinction he has received is material to that view. Congratulations Mr. Flaum!
Why was post ..219 deleted? EOM
Then you get over it. EOM
Methinks you protest too much...
I invite other shareholders to read your post and ask themselves is this person short or long.
Totally agree tovc4me...
"On the contrary, my opinion is recent decline in the stock on little volume is likely the work of the market makers/shorts who are attempting to scare shareholders into dumping their shares at these ARTIFICIALLY LOW PRICESso they can cover their short positions before Torvec can announce a deal."
Yes, it is absurd.
And it will continue is what I am saying, alas.
Personally I think it is about to change. I am very pleased with the entry of government, via the Air Force, since I do not see the not-invented-here bias involved, nor the ego problem of a huge company paying a small company value when that is significant money. Government is spending our money and all they have to account for is that they paid what its worth. The sole source statement is also key.
And if we are "poised" for a JV, its announcement--and I do not see why it would not be announced--will cause the marketplace to quickly rise and with its mighty arm smite the shorts. And then you will hear from Artguy, Torvecian, et. al., again.
The real bone of contention
has always been what IT is.
Jim has always said that we would have brought IT about at will long ago if IT means getting shafted. It won't happen believe me.
Y'al think you have an agreement but the word is not defined and until you do that there is loads of wiggle room and you will continue to hear the shorts and tired swimmers blaming everything on management.
Anybody got a deck of cards? EOM
Regarding government's speed, two things.
I was absolutely blown away by the speed of the Air Force. They agreed to a price and sent a check within weeks of seeing the vehicle. I thought, what's got the bee in their bonnet? But it's there.
Second is the sole source statement. It is chiefly competitive bidding that drags out governments response. Perhaps you remember the huge earthquake in California some years ago that destroyed the highway system in that locale. The government (Pete Wilson presiding as I recall) suspended bidding rules and almost immediately hired contractors who could and did work all day and all night. It was inspiring to me.
As far as budget, there is an operating budget; they have money; the agencies just decide how to spend it. When you see agencies place orders, and Torvec form some alliance to fill them, there will be lovely fireworks. (Don't even get me started of the shorts, come this scenario.)
Well, that's my take anyway.