Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
COOP going private is ludicrous.
Are we drinking wine tonight?
temocat, the plan has been in place for many months. There is no need to wait many more. The hedgies are more tired of waiting than even we are.
March/Apr for the first salvo.
They need to do a smaller distribution to escrows first to validate all accounts and systems before they can release any larger sums. Makes sense.
It's been so long since that small share distribution to escrows that many accounts have changed due to deaths, inheritance changes, divorces, etc.
Once they perform a small distribution, accounts will have been verified for larger sums to flow.
I expect this first distribution to occur in March, April at the latest.
Huh? It's called a RELEASE.
Why is this even a question?
Non releasers are non valid.
Sorry, forgot to acknowledge LG and LP.
There are many on the boards who work hard to try to shed meaningful light on this mess. And what a mess it is.
Let me clarify for the umpteenth time...that 1.9B that was paid was a downpayment admin fee so I wish people would stop this nonsensical crap that it was full payment. Do some reading!
Jamie needs to write a check, as Ron says.
Another couple weeks folks. Go buy a tin of popcorn. This is about to get very interesting.
Clawman, I clearly said theories.
Nothing is 100% in this life.
There will be a firestorm of Biblical proportions, lawsuits, etc. if the judge, Rosen, Fdic, and Jpm don't make this right for escrow holders who have released and endured almost 11 yrs of agony.
Nice post wamugold.
We should all appreciate the hard work that AZ, Ron, Dmdmd, Lodas, Royal, and all the others do.
They could easily just keep their findings to themselves, but they are kind to share it with those of us who dont have the time knowledge or resources.
Ultimately these are all theories, but everyone should show them the respect they deserve.
Lets see how this unfolds in the coming weeks. I have faith that escrow holders will be very happy soon.
Again, fake news.
The trustees are of course the various banks, DB, Mellon, etc.
Those trusts must release upon bk closing.
WMI had time to safe harbor those assets, which can be done in 2 days max.
WMI was not stupid....they knew the Wamu seizure was likely.
The hedgies were not stupid either. And no, they don't throw away billions of dollars as someone said.
Again, it comes down to 5th amendment taking.
This entire fiasco was simply legalized robbery facilitated by Bair and Walrath under the direction of their bosses, Holder and Obama.
Hmmmm. Let's see. Wonder what secret offshore accounts hold these gobs of money.
Dimon was very sneaky about the 30B.
He waited long enough to disclose the finding, but he knew he had to publicly reveal it in case a whistleblower did. He needed to cover himself.
This no doubt goes under 5th amendment unfair taking.
We got screwed in so many ways by him and the FDIC. Thats why the FDIC will do all it can to give us nothing and cover their tracks.
Good summation, lodas.
Those who say escrows will not get paid argue that JPM got all the assets, as well as the liabilities.
We who believe know that the assets far outweighed the liabilities.
Even if they still do not believe that, then what about that magical bonus of $30B that Dimon publically bragged about finding a few years back? If their payment of $1.9B was a justified payment based on A&L in 2008, then why should they have been able to keep that extra 30B that appeared years later? Any fair minded person would say that found money should go back to the estate and shareholders who have suffered so terribly for over a decade.
If the judge has any sense of fair and reasonable decency, she should make an attempt at least to make this right.
Now is the time.
Hello in there, mattchew.
I don't know whether to ignore you, or just feel sorry for you.
Escrow payout money will flow to COOP.
No doubt that many escrow holders will reinvest a portion of any monies received back into COOP. We see a very bright future for the company now, and also feel an allegiance to WMIH....our company.
I myself will buy shares of COOP with any payout funds received, as will others I have spoken with.
I expect quite a runup in share price once money begins to flow.
I believe you are right Ron.
They may be able to hide some of it with creative techniques, but the bulk will have to come back to the estate, or else.
I still believe Judge Walrath will ensure that it does. Why else sign releases if there were no "posits"? Hmmmm...
Redacted docs, gag orders, under seal docs, cloak of secrecy.
I find it hard to believe as well that Dimon, living in the lap of luxury, would take a chance of going to jail for the rest of his life. That $1.9B was a downpayment. Now the bank must be paid for.
This will all come to the light of day once the bk closes, I agree. If it doesn't there will be hell to pay.
That $4B should be coming back.
Along with much much more Ron. I am sure Tepper and the boys know all about that, the $30B that JPM "found", and on and on.
Let's see what happens once the bk closes out. This is about to get verrrrrrrry interesting.
The 4B deposit was puzzling.
Either it was an automatic deposit that was scheduled in advance, or they were so busy with the enormous assets that this one slipped by.
No matter what, the FDIC, JPM, and Walrath had no business giving away that WMI deposit. Sickening.
Of this entire fiasco, that $4B WMI deposit they seized sticks in my craw more than anything.
What made them, and Walrath, think they could give JPM that $4B deposit from WMI that WMI had just deposited days before? It was not bank property to seize. That in itself shows how unbelievably corrupt this whole thing was.
The good news is, I do believe WMI saw the seizure coming and stashed the majority of assets in safe harbor. Now, to add insult to injury, the greedy bastards want all that too.
The crime of the century.
Exactly lotus. If there was nothing coming back, escrow owners would have been notified long ago.
There was never an official notice from anyone that escrows were worthless, and they are well aware of the board banter about this all these years.
Walrath knows, or she would have insisted notice was given. And she was the one 1 posit unicorn way back when. My money is on the judge.
Stop with the "nothing coming back" nonsense please.
This hysteria is unfounded. Just because the LT says they have no assets means nothing to us. We knew that long ago. They are pursuing LIBOR, which is fine.
Our assets will not come from the LT. How many times has that been discussed here? Geesh!
Relax people before you pop an artery. Let this play out before jumping off a bridge. We MAY get some news end of the month or next month that will quell this. It may take a bit longer. So what?
Anyone notice how calm the HFs are? Do you see them panicking or filing lawsuits? Learn a lesson from them. They can afford to buy NFL teams because they know what they are doing. They don't live in their mom's basement.
LIBOR pursuit by the LT.
I found that mention very interesting.
I suggest the board puts some focus on recent LIBOR settlements since that could be an avenue for escrow payments.
"SHOW ME YOUR CONFIRMED LINK TO ASSETS COMING BACK TO ESCROW...."
Are you really saying this? Really? You don't know much of anything if you can ask that question here.
They are saying there are no assets in the LT now because there are not any, there.
Weeks before the seizure, WMI knew that there was likely going to be a crash and or seizure of banks. The assets were quickly stashed under lock and key in Safe Harbor. That info is all still under court ordered seal.
So how do you ask a question like that?
Once the employee claims are over with on 2/22, the great unveiling can begin. No one knows how long that process will take, but this will be a great year for escrows. Bank on it.
Of course, I suppose that doesn't matter to you since you do not hold escrow markers in an account.
So this filing states that JPM says these assets are with the FDIC receivership.
Yet Janice Hearns says unequivocally that there are no assets in the receivership. None.
Someone is lying.
Feb 22 is Washington's birthday. Coincidence?
Cosmic? Good day to close this out.
Good work dmdmd. $73MM at $10B is correct.
I am sure they are chomping at the bit now waiting for this bk to close out, like the rest of us.
$10B is a no brainer the way I see it. The judge had a pretty good idea of what was behind the curtain and she knew 1 posit was doable. It was no slip of the tongue. Judges at her level choose their words very wisely.
Yes thanks dmdmd for your theory.
Great work as always. Your deduction makes total sense. And the final tally will be much more than 10B.
GMoney - escrow timeline for payouts.
If I gave you a date I would be FOS. No one really knows. So many factors and players involved. My gut says any time this month or next we could get some news on escrow money, but that's just a guess based on current events.
We are dealing with many parties here and they are all frankly discombobulated. However, we are all getting pissed, and "they" know that. They read all the boards. If they don't want to get their tits in a wringer, or worse, do jail time if lawyers start to ascend in class actions etc., then they better get off their asses and do some work. Our patience is wearing very thin now. And I assume the hedge funds have just about had it too.
So, sorry I can't be more succinct than that. I remember many years ago thinking about all this, and I came to the gut conclusion that payout would come out of the blue, when we least expect it. Still holds true.
GLTA
NDT, that puzzled me too, but bop said she was confident Chad Smith showed him the letter. Huh?? Why not copy him directly? Kind of weird I agree.
If deemed a settlement it is NOT taxable.
Of course we had to file the IRS form when we released so the IRS will immediately get 28% off the top from us! Then it us up to us when we file our taxes to put up a battle with the IRS that this is a non taxable settlement. Good luck with that. They will want a cut.
The worst case IMO is that we will have to pay LTCG on it, which means 15% tax an the first $480K and then 20% on the rest. If some politicians get their way it could be taxed from 70-90%! Let's hope that this resolves quickly before they get into power or we could get pennies on the dollar.
Line up a good tax guy now so you are ready to deal with this. If we get paid soon we have till Apr 15 2020 to deal with it, but the IRS gets to keep our 28% until then too.
Dmdmd, yes, the employees know there is great value in hidden assets.
Why else would they have fought till the end? Obvious through the lawyers encouragement. Milking 101. Their good news is, no doubt many of them do hold escrows in their families' accounts. They will be fine. Now they too can get paid.
It's been a long, difficult wait so I fully understand the skeptical angst and frustration.
There are no guarantees in life but I think we should feel good about where this is heading now.
But let's not get too giddy until we see it in our accounts!
And, what have we been paying A&M for?
If there is no there there, what have we been paying these guys big money for, for years? Nothing for them to manage? Hmmm. Looks like they would have some splainin to do.
https://www.alvarezandmarsal.com
Safe harbor assets.
Look, not sure how many times this has to be discussed. The docs do not lie. Do you think billions in assets just went poof? They cannot be discussed officially due to the gag order that was imposed.
If you would bother reading the docs you wouldn't take such a ludicrous stance. Do you really think the hedge boys are in this for just a couple bucks? Get real.
Now if you don't believe in this I suggest you find a way to dispense with your escrows (if you even have any which I doubt). My guess is you are a non releaser. Too bad. I feel for the folks who did not release, I really do. But to say something as preposterous now as that there are no assets is just ridiculous.
My question however remains, how much is there behind the curtain. We will find out soon. Very soon.
tony t. I don't have a ballpark figure.
My best guess is that this will be paid in phases over time like divvies, starting with a few billion. They need to be careful not to draw public attention to a seizure that should have never happened!
I say the numbers are huge. Payments would be fine with me. Others here have been accurate in the numbers IMO straight from the docs.
Ron, the lawyers will try to milk this as long as they can. Just like my lawyer tried to get me to fight my divorce settlement! They get more money the longer they can drag it on. They are skilled at doing that. They have a course for it in law school called Milking 101.
But Mary will not change her mind and they know it, so why spend money on the charade? It's over.
Ron, yes the amounts are crazy.
Hard to fathom really, but it's there in black and white after all.
I expect to wake up to a nice account surprise very soon indeed.
Mary, Rosie, Jamie, Davey. It's all coming together, like that old Beatles song.
I think Judge Claster is following this, and smiling now. Knowing the moms and pops can get some relief from their decade of agony.
dmdmd2020's numbers are scary large, but the docs don't lie.
The question is, can corruption rule the day, or will justice finally be served.
My guess is, somewhere in the middle. As much as we'd love to all see $400B, can it be, reality? Likely not if you ask me.
But who am I? A conservative thinking person. I worry about the powers involved in this. Power corrupts, and we are against the most powerful financial people in the world folks. These are no lightweights.
They also don't want to go to jail. I think they will see to it that escrows are taken care of, for their own well being. It may not be $400B, but it will be significant IMHO.
Because we deserve it. We escrow owners made a wise calculated financial investment decision, plus we released.
Sit back, relax, and make yourself comfortable. Let's put this nightmare behind us.
10 1/2 years of agony coming to a close.
Looks like escrows should start to see something very soon now. The doubters who hated the judge can now thank her for putting this mess to bed.
Hold on to the letters we were told to write, and hold off on the class actions.
The question now is how much and how soon.
As someone said earlier....yep. The end of the line.