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Thank you for your prompt information. Hope to see you in other boards. GLIY
I'm new in this board. I'm the holder of this stock prior to BK back in 2007. I'm appreciated that you could tell me what is going on right now. TIA
i acknowledge a slight difference in description. L & N has shown "pref'd series" in iHub but K and m not. But, i believe all four should be the same.
Hi, Linda. From your post, I could see the class 3 to 5 would be consolidated per substantive consolidation. How about class 6 - 8? Or, I am also wrong regarding 3-5.
always worthwhile, see you in Vegas.
You're absolutely right. So, I put 60% my investment in prefs. and 40% in commons respectfully. 40% is sort of gambling and hopefully examiners and EC could prove something....... Hmmm, chance is not great, but ROI is great.
Logically speaking, pref. stocks have better chance. So they is ROI is less than MAMUQ. The breakeven point is around $5.00/WAMUQ vs FV of prefs.
Again, if wamuq is not paid, prefs. might not 100% guaranteed. 100% is the key. It might be paid 100%, 90%, 1% (as current POR), or wiped out INdirectly (i.e. Cit's case).
So my point is that once common gets paid(lowest expectation by most posters--$2.00), then prefs get FV.
Even GM still makes cars, however, new GM has nothing to do with Motor Liquidation Company, which is the name for old GM. The reason that Motor Liquidation company is there is because old GM still owned manufacturing facilities, 4 brand names (Hummer, Saturn..etc)as hard assets, and all liablities. Old GM seeks the buyers in order to pay out liabilities. If A>L, then old common gets paid, the price is around 0.50/share. Otherwise, it is gone.
Absolutely agreed. That is.
if WMI only has NOL, then common has less chance since it's a soft assets. Most likely, NOL will carry forward. Then WMI may merge with someone who don't want to see old common and pref. existed. The new company will have new stocks....
If WMI has hard assets, common has chance as well as prefs, such as Motor Lidquidation company(GM's old commons), Corning...etc. Just my personal wide guess could be wrong.
The only guarantee is selltment w/FDIC. If we could not prove any wrongdoing, then we're in trouble. Judge will let debtors leading the DS/POR.
I am not saying is bad. I am saying is that "pref. might not guranteed 100% if commons are not paid." 100% is the point, and it is really depend upon Debtors mercy, might be 100%, 90% or wipe you out INdirectly through CVR.
The reason that Cit went to BK11 was creditors were demanding the payment, and not willing to extend the credits. Having gone through BK11, the compnay wiped out 10 billion debts and renegoitated a new term of payments, plus saving a lot of interests. The result....=> US Treasury, commons, and prefs stocks have all gone.
Sorry misunderstand your calculation. In any rate, thanks very much for your clarification.
I believe at the time A>L around 7 or 8 Billion dollars.
I lost all investment in commons and prefs of Cit, but make back evenly from Capital Trust securities, which ultimately paid 85 cents per dollar.
Debtors make the decision. If debtor believe that the new company needs infusion a lot of cash to survive, then common will be wiped out even A>L. The reason is that new company is going to have IPO to get new capital in. With all the old commons there, the new company has no attractions to investors.
We are in the BK11. Judge normally likes to support the debtor let the company survive is the main purpose. Otherwise, go with BK7.
Thanks again. Gods bless everyone here.
Look the case of Cit. Cit was A>L. Both commons and prefs. were wiped out directly and indirectly respectfully. We are in BK11 court of neorganization, not in BK7 liquidation.
By the way, US government also lost 2.2B TARP money in Cit case. Cit gave US government 2.2B in pref stocks. Unfortunately, US government got nothing.
Looking from a different angle.
If common is paid assume $2.00/share, the pref. gets FV.
However, if A>L in a big gap (i.e. assume A=30B), by some reasons, old common might be wiped out due to BK11, then pref. is not guaranteed 100%. Trust me the debtors are SxB, will screw you up anyway. We need EC on board. Susman gets paid, we get paid. Common gets paid, we get paid.
I have K+P+U since sept/08, didn't see any ends yet.
Do you feel more comfortable as Linda stated this outcome before?
"Let all secured creditors get paid 100%, and class 3 through 8 get paid (around 20%) equally based on substantive consolidation".
aprpeciate your comments, and possible road blocks.
Of course, that is all what our best wishes, also the reason why we are all here. But, knowing some possible outcomes along the road, you won't be too frustrated if the outcoming not meet with your expectation, such as commons and prefs are wiped out directly or indirectly because we are in BK11 not BK7. Well, onething is for sure(i.e. once commons get paid, prefs are definitely guaranteed). If commons are not paid, prefs are not 100% guaranteed.
Commons get paid, Ks and Ps are paid.
I'm sorry cause I don't know. Since prefs are non-cumulative. LBHI might liable for interest before BK.
Of course,once commons get sometings, all prefs are safe for 100%.
I have both Ks and Ps. Still watching CVRs problems successfully applied in Citgroup case. Debtors are as dirty as the Hxxxx. We need EC on BOD.
there are posts in U board between fsshon & desparado90. It seems that common might not be guraranteed even A>L. Like Citgroups, all commons are wiped out under A>L. Let have EC on BOD to protect us.
We need EC in BOD to protect common.
That is the same problem as I have. Once a time, only one(1) share was filled but paid $5.00( charged by BoA) per transaction. Hmmmm, you paid additional $0.02/share of the transaction cost.
thank you very much, you're always very nice to us.
Thank you very much for your opinion. Good luck to you and everyone here.
I have a similar questions to Marayatano. If subordinated contract never changes its status, it makes no sense that CTs seeks substantive consolidation. In any rate, CTs won't be paid until class 3 is satisfied that is same thing as right now. Class 5 is the last, so CTs will not paid as long as A<L. Appreicate your thoughts.
same here, my average is around $0.21.
Marayatano: appreciate your opinion for this questions. Regardless, will CTs never be paid until class 3 is fully paid even debtor changes DS/POR based on substantive consolidation? Therefore, it really does not make any significant difference comparing existing POS vs possible new one (i.e. substantive consolidation)?
Agreed, Foxcom President said "Evil is hidden in the very details".
Very lucky you. I am waiting my next paycheck hopefully adding another 50 shares.
yes, I lost
Thanks for your expertise.
Linda, assuming Micmacpole gets through and have a new class(??) for his claims, do we still have a chance or totally too late because our trustee screwed up?
Chiron, then I lost all my savings.
Linda: Do you know when the new DS/POR will come out?