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You need to file if it's over 5%. I'm not sure why Randy filed... 43 million is not 5%, and it wasn't at the time he filed.
Hope you and him both do well!
good morning! At what price are shares considered to be 'locked up'?
I've heard if it's too high they can still lend them out?
Thanks!
GoldiS what's up? I did a hydrolyte order and paid on the 17th.
Nothing urgent, but just curious. What's your usual shipping time? I figured it would be here last week.
Thanks!
That's true with contributions.. There is a one time five year clock (and you must reach 59.5) before earnings are tax and penalty free.
However, there are two five year periods with a Roth.
The second relates to conversions. If you convert and are under 59.5, each conversion has its own 5 year period until you can take that converted money out tax and penalty free (As if it were a contribution)
A conversion would also start the first 5 year clock, the earnings one, if that is the first activity on the account!
yes sir. Always a good plan!
True.. there's also a 5 year period for each conversion before the principle is penalty free ( if you're under 59.5)..
In either case.. no worse off than in a traditional IRA since you'd have a penalty for a withdrawal from there too if underage.
Soo... a 45 year old could convert and take principle out without penalty at age 50, whereas had that person left the funds in the traditional... they'd need to wait until 59.5
Always a good idea to talk it all through with a tax pro.. just a good time to consider this stuff if we're about to go on a run!
I'm not talking about rolling over, I'm talking about converting from traditional IRA to Roth IRA.
ROllovers from 401k to IRA are unlimited and then from there one could convert... THis may be optimal for someone who wants pctl but has a lot of funds in a 401k where options are limited.
IRA to IRA rollovers are not unlimited... one per rolling 12 month period... but again, this isn't a rollover situation.. talking about a traditional to roth conversion.
Good luck all!
this is a great post. hope you're right!!!
sure thing! I'd suggest doing it quickly if that's the route you're going.
If you have a million shares, $0.03m that's $30,000 and at tax time you'd pay $6,000 for that if you're in a 20% bracket. If those shares go up to $0.05, now you're paying $10,000 in tax for the same move.
At my company, we value the conversion based on end of day price as long as it's done before market close. Others do it differently. Never hurts to ask.
you may be maxed out on contributions, but there is no conversion limit. Even if you contribute the full amount to a Roth.. You can still convert as much as you want.. No need to wait til next year.
Thanks for the kind words!
So, I got my best friend to invest, and told him I'd buy his family two pizzas and a pecan pie if it wasn't at $0.06 by year end. He bought in at $0.0475. This was a month or two back.
I still feel ok about this wager. However, I don't want to go too far out on a limb because I think the market for pctl is not rational.
If Gary says tomorrow that he's cleared all debt and our share total is 700M shares... I'll think that is great! We saved 300m shares. Others will see that as dilution and not look past it.
So... I think we're going to be undervalued for a time while this dilution thing gets sorted out. I'm guessing that people will overreact to the downside if and when the share count goes up... even if it's for legitimate means, so while I'll see the Co. as worth more when this happens, I think the market will see it as worth less.
I also think that fluid sales weren't in the stratosphere like some had hoped, and while they're very good, I don't think Q3 is going to take us to the moon because I think the real bread and butter is going to be in equipment, hospitals, etc. While we may have some placements.. we're not going to see a ton of revenue from that stuff yet in Q3.
Long-term, I am very bullish. Short-term.. I am very bullish by normal market standards, but not by the standards of this board.
Today, looking at it all, I guess $0.0675 end of year. That's more than a double from this point, and I hope I'm low. We'll see what happens!
Just to be clear, the post was not meant to be political.
I am not opposed to a higher tax rate, especially for the ultra rich who often end up paying less than the rest of us. I'm willing to chip in my share as well, and believe that we should meet basic needs of folks, etc.
That said, I also think it's wise to convert now.. Set aside higher tax rates... just think of how much pctl could go up and think of the tax you'd owe even if your rate stays the same.
My friend on here converted 250,000 shares today. Was happy to see her do it and just wanted to share the idea with others :)
Just a PSA.. If anyone has pctl shares in a traditional IRA... now might be a good time to convert to the Roth.. You pay taxes on the shares at $0.03, so then any future gains are potentially tax free.
Tax rates aren't going down any time soon in my opinion. Country spent trillions on COVID, Dems are going to win everything once the new generation reaches voting age, etc. Also, if this stock does as well as many think it will... could be putting some folks into a new tax bracket.
Looking forward to the call in a week. Good luck all!
Thank you for posting this. A great resource to have when someone starts talking about tin foil hats and paranoia and all that..
They clearly monitor the board. For what purpose? Who knows? A few people here talk to Billy but he's bright enough not to disclose anything he shouldn't.
They're just grasping at straws. Not going to find any here.
-I agree that they'd lost in a trial. They probably know it too. Seems the question is more around an amount to settle for, and if investors as a group do not come across as desperate, then they're less likely to get to lowball us.
- I agree about Billy, but that doesn't mean they won't try. As someone else mentioned, we do know they monitor this board.
- I don't recall the details, but one of the defense filings from last year referenced a post from this board. Others could probably track that down quicker than i could.
- LOL no.. I just didn't think it would happen that quickly. Frankly, it's all going to seem too good to be true until I have money in hand. I like the odds of a settlement, but I won't let myself believe and count on it til it actually happens.
- Agree that it has little effect on the share price.... but people try either way. It does have an effect on the mood of the board, as it frustrates and wears people down after a while. Easy to get jaded following the same board year after year. The block feature has been AMAZING
Oh I know.. I'm on PredictIt.Org and know and bet on the odds of each. This judge wasn't even on Trump's long list, short list, or any list.. and he's a male.. so we're safe. :)
Good afternoon! I wasn't around when Jody was in charge and so I'm speaking of what I know not of... I just think that hospital approvals, series C approval, etc.. might have been longer than he could anticipate and maybe he couldn't control it. In my dealing with him he seemed bright.. It might just be that he was in a bad spot as many startups are, and took what he could get.
Recent debt in the Q1 was that, especially with the late filing, I believe lenders could buy shares at a 50%ish discount to the lowest price over the last few weeks. This is similar to what it was last year.. and when we got down to .0015 and defaulted, it meant we owed a lot of shares.
What I don't know is what dilution does.. Last year it seemed to trigger additional shares that we owed on these notes.. I'm not sure what the provisions are on these. I'm sure we could look or as at the CC, but I'm not too worried about it.
The terms of the debt are pretty common across penny stocks, I have it on one of my others.. Difference is the price here tanked and that's what really made it 'toxic'. If the price goes down to .0015 again, we'll be in the same boat.. I just don't see it happening.
If counsel for defense can impact the Supreme Court nomination... then we have more issues than my message board post!!!!
I know there are defense people who read things... part of why i try to convince everyone to be ok with a trial.. If defense senses desperation, then they might try to use leverage against Billy to take less than this is worth. Hopefully he's above all that either way.
Since we know from pg ~72 of that filing a while back that defense does read this board...… My posts that we should take back every penny they stole and be excited about trial for dollars rather than willing to settle for pennies, and me trying to convince others of the same, should be clear and final evidence that I'm not on their side.
God Bless!
Long, the crux of it was that last April I said I thought it would be at least a year before we saw any cash. I was lambasted by many. I don't even mind, I was new, stock was trading,there was a history of people here who had ulterior motives... so whatever. Doubt everyone, I get it. I know I do..
But 1.5 years later.....
1. I was right
2. see #1
3. Other than timing, I'm 99% you'll find nothing I've ever posted that could be considered negative.
Just for the record, my recent post that brought this on was me saying that with our luck, Trump will nominate our judge for the Supreme Court opening and we'll have to start over. If that comment is cause for concern around here... we have it pretty good!
I can take a little heat and so I don't mind per se... I just like this board and don't think anyone should waste their time! :)
God Bless all!
Huge is relative. If he adds 50 million shares to get rid of 400m in warrants, so be it.
Now, I'll give you that I don't think he should have said 'no toxic dilution', but CEOs are optimistic.. and the base case was that those 400M warrants could be exercised at any time.. for free.
I can totally understand how he would perceive that if he's reducing that, he is doing the opposite of toxic dilution.
I agree that it's an overhang.. I was preaching about the warrants before anyone other long was talking about them this year. Multiple people were telling me that Gary was handling it and there'd be no dilution, so they saw it as you did whether they'd say that now or not.
I'll say it again though.. Even if we were at 1B shares right now, I think it's a good value. Any reductions he can make=icing on the cake.
Way things have been going this year.. They'll pull our judge for the USSC and we'll have to start over....
I agree with your concern, but not to the same extent.
Gary has issued notes that are 'potentially' toxic... but that does not mean they are right now. As long as we pay the debt down, we're fine. I don't think he is out and out lying, just being optimistic.
If they issue new notes to cover the old, and the new notes are less toxic than the old, it's reasonable.
I do agree, though, that he shouldn't say that at all. Easy enough to say "we're working to pay down and renegotiate debt, and are seeing much more favorable terms than 1-2 years ago". Same stuff, but no disappointment.
Hopefully he takes this approach going forward
Best thing for us is that that whole deal didn't work out.
I don't know that it was BS... The C shares have since been sold... I think it just took a while to get them approved and by the time they were approved. Price had dipped big and toxic warrant dilution had triggered and there was no longer interest from that company.
Just because something doesn't work out, doesn't necessarily mean it's BS.
Indeed. A month, two, three... all pretty soon.
The light is at the end of the tunnel.... tunnel just may be a few feet longer than we thought.
People hate on Jody for toxic debt.. Just want to point out that his debt is no more 'toxic' at the outset than the debt Gary has recently taken on.
The issue is.. If the shares can be bought at a discount to share price... and the price plummets... and there's dilution... then it becomes toxic by virtue of the result.
Gary has taken some notes recently that are not dissimilar from those taken 18/19 that turned a drop into a cascade.
The difference is... Jody was going off of projections and counting on money that wasn't here yet. Gary has solid revenues to pay off the notes without worrying about the spiral. My only point is... Jody was not a bad guy, his problem was optimism. Gary does not need the same level of optimism because we are going by 'results' now..... If the share price dropped to .0015 like it did this time last year, we'd be right back in the same boat.
While we do languish around a couple of pennies right now, we are not in position where this could drop enough to cause toxic dilution.
All in all, no point to this except that Jody was a good guy making the best decisions he could with the info he had at the time. Bad for the price last year, but good for those who bought in cheap. Also.. we didn't go under, we're still around...
Just sayin....
Happy new year everyone! l'chaim :)
Thanks for posting this :)
Hope no one has committed crimes in the great state of DE recently, and we can be up pretty soon.. With these criminal trials... I'm sure they'd need some time so even with priority... if someone has crimed it up in the past few weeks... maybe there's not a huge rush there anyway.
I'm still happy with anything earlier than January 15th :)
A point I think some may have missed is that the 400M warrants could be considered to have 'already' happened.
If Gary is issuing new shares to pay that down.. It's not 'toxic' per se. Toxic debt is where a lower share price makes us owe more shares... which makes the share price lower... and on it goes. Him negotiating and paying this off is not toxic.
At worst, it is 'less' toxic than what was out there before.
Again, I'd encourage everyone to value this CO as if there are 1B shares outstanding. If someone happens to dump a bunch at once... that's temporary. Doesn't affect long term value and if it's happening, would be a buying opportunity.
The price now is $0.027. At 1B shares, that's a $27M company. For me, that means I'd want to see $2.7M profit now or in the very near future. I like a PE of 10 or better.
With PCTL, I see profit of well over $3million next year. Therefore, even in a worst-case for dilution where we completely max out share count... I believe we are undervalued at this level.
Last quarter the paydown reduced $2m of the $18m derivative liability. In addition, we had to pay the amount, I believe around $100,000.
Looking at the derivative liability, $1m would be disappointment for me. If they have issued 50 million new shares... in proportion to the last, I'd hope to see at least half of the warrants be erased.
That being said.. I have been looking at 1B shares as a baseline for a long time.. I still think it's a good deal. You, DE and others have been looking at the warrants being taken care of, but it's worth noting that 'taking care' of them could involve paying out 10-40% of the shares we would have originally had to.. so it's not just like we can pay out the amount of cash we defaulted on and make them go away.
All that being said.. at $0.03, this is a 30 million company even at 1B shares. I'd love to see the warrants gone and I'd love for us to get a good deal on that.... but I feel it's a good investment at this point even if we have to issue every single one of those shares.
Have a great day!
Thank you for sharing! To an earlier reply... This is a positive for PCTL.
If the barriers to entry become high, it makes our product that much more attractive.... Demand is high, this potentially lowers the supply/competition.
We seem well positioned regardless of how Brexit goes.
That's the most exciting thing to me about this CC in 18 days. He's been lowballing for a while and since they're going to put everything out there in just a few weeks, I like to imagine that they've got all the debt sorted out at that time.
Wishful thinking.. but why not??
You are 80 and going for a phd? Props to you!
Nice to have something to fall back on if this investment goes south :)
Let's be clear... What I said was very different from what you've quoted me as saying. Here it is:
"and for all we know their adding as fast as we can build. "
Now, I cite this with a tinge of embarrassment since I said 'their' instead of 'they're'... but a quote is a quote.. :)
My point is... maybe they are shipping some of those machines to the UK and haven't been able to tell us yet. I'm not going to count that before it happens... that would be the same mistake some of us made estimating fluid sales based on how much they increased capacity.
I agree that the pace of debt resolution has been slower than we'd all like.. That said... I was happy to see $2m resolved in the last filing and I know they did some in August. If they continue that pace of resolving 10% of the debt each month... you'll hear no complaints from me!
Right, not 'paid' in the sense we'd normally think of. It should not reduce our cash.
There are 400m warrants out there that note holders can essentially redeem for free unless we work something out.
In the worst-case scenario, we wouldn't need to 'pay' them anything.. we'd just balloon to a billion share count. While that's not ideal and I don't want to see it... it's not a situation where we owe $18million dollars in cash. That would be a huge problem. We just owe (potentially) 400m shares.
You'll notice that this derivative liability increases when the share price increases... because the shares we have to give away are worth more..... but again, it's not cash out of pocket.
Reasonable concerns but I don't know that I see everything the same way.
I don't believe we need any more deals to materialize, we simply need to execute on the ones already there.
I also don't agree that we have 'tremendous debt'. We DO have tremendous derivative liability... $16m worth at last count... but that's not exactly debt.
The actual dollar amount that we owe is much, much lower. Problem is that because of the drop last year, a $100,000 note we may owe $4-5m worth of shares on that, but that can be overcome.
I agree that I'd like to expand to new hospitals.. but for a $0.03 company, I feel pretty good that some premier institutions are taking our stuff.. and for all we know their adding as fast as we can build.
Long-term fluid sales are not going to make or break this company. We may make some money here or there, and I appreciate that the revenues from the last 6 months have really allowed us to ramp up quicker... but if there is a huge demand for HOCL long-term, I believe that others will come in and make and sell it cheaply... reducing margins and all that. The real value we have is tracking patents and all that. I'm sure hospital decision making on this kind of stuff is on hold right now, so if we're selling some fluids and adding to known customers to get by.... nothing I can complain about.
As far as other industries, we know Dessert Eagle has some O&G contacts, and cannabis is there too. They certainly aren't core and I wouldn't invest on any of those secondary things alone, but I certainly consider them more than 'pipe dreams'. We know at least one O&G company in Oklahoma was a large fluid customer.
We've got a ways to go, but I'm much more optimistic and I just don't see the same danger of failure that you do.
So how does the Filla/Filta? deal apply here? Are they essentially the equivalent of a level 2 distributor that will distribute NTH's fluids for them?
I agree that it's a good time to load... but I don't have a penny left. Actually, I do have $0.09 in my account. Maybe I should see if I can get 3 shares tomorrow. Every little bit helps!
Curious where we open tomorrow.... Not because it matters, but I wonder how the market will value this.
It's good news, but if I'm being honest, I don't completely understand. Our partner who sells our product has partnered with someone else who will sell our product. I know I'm dense and I know this is good, but I honestly don't get exactly what this means.. other than that it looks like revenues will go up.
My guess is that we close at $0.035 tomorrow. I am also going to go on record as saying we never close below $0.03 again. There may be some wishful thinking in there, but I believe it either way!
Good luck all!
Could be....
If there's a planned 'event' my guess is it would be an uplisting coupled with news about the UK. An uplisting itself I don't really care about ( I can trade shares either way... what do I care where it's listed?) but the increased exposure and the share price increase that goes along with it would be nice to see.
If I had the funds to do so, I'd be loading up at this prices.
Good luck all!
I've had my share of concerns around here, but I'm looking forward to the call and I think there's a pretty reasonable time to wait.
-It's this month
-I know the date
-I know the time
- I know the topics.
Not many $0.03 stocks are in that position!
We waited over 2 months for the last filing. Given that, I can wait for a CC in 3 weeks.
I'd encourage everyone to get your questions to IR and that will help to emphasize the things we'd want to be addressed.
I hope Gary is able to spend the next few weeks closing out the rest of the toxic debt. That would be a great way to end Q3 and start this CC off on a great note.
Good morning everyone.
Looking forward to this PR and things to come. We should never be under $0.03 again. We'll see!