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RD "1) The parther didn't want to pay the fee until after the acquisition was final." Who or what sort of entity was the partner?
The asked prices moving up: MPID
Ask Price
Size
Time
JANE 2.00 100 11:25
NITE 2.00 100 11:25
GTSM 2.29 3,000 11:18
CDEL 2.36 1,000 11:19
INTL 2.36 100 11:19
ETRF 2.50 1,800 11:10
CSTI 2.76 100 08:30
OTCX U 0 07:45
RD Thanks a lot for a useful update! The situation appears to be a good deal better than I have feared after the BIOT failure.
It is now Wednesday. Where is the Monday update?
MM I think you are not right. You refer to BIOT and not to ITUP. BIOT failed because of a lack of 400,000 dollars. My impression has been that the timing of the relisting of ITUP has been somewhat hazy but during the last part of next year at the earliest. But it could be that the failure of financing BIOT may have some effect on the potential listing of ITUP too. I have no information about the real situation of ITUP, Masala Capital and Cow Capital right now.
Petrejus Of course it is against the rules not to report everything to the auditor but do companies always act the way they are supposed to when it comes to financials? What do you do when you are in an impossible situation? You may be damned if you state the truth and if you don't. I believe this dilemma has been discussed here before. I have stated before than the way this company has been acted over the last years my definite impression has been that it has not had access to enormous sums of money.
Petrejus I agree with that statement. But the option is not to provide any information relating to assets that might have been off the balance sheet.
What I wonder about: Is not the adutitor dependent on the information that is available to ithe auditor? If the auditor has access to no information about the possible big assets the auditor cannot pay any attention to them I guess. Does the auditor have to audit the numbers many years back? It it has to do that I understand your question?
gosox I think there are others who have a better basis for assessing the prospects of the pps this year than I have.But I think it is not realistic to expect the pps to explode. We have more or less been promised that the financial position will be substantially improved with current loans being repaid and new and better financing entered into. My guess is that this will be an important positive factor regarding the pps. I seem to view the new contract for 167 milliion dollars differently from other posters who may have a better basis for assessing it t han I have. If you buy a cell phone there is sharp competition between the producers because the hardware performs differently in a consistent way. If you buy gasoline or diesel the price seems to be what matters and not who produced them. If there is a deficit of product the price rises and if there is a surplus the price falls. Everybody can sell what they produce by lowering their prices a bit I guess. Unless t he contract entered into means t hat the jet fuel will be sold at a better price than the one that obtains in the market I find it hard to see that the contract matters much regarding the pps. I find it hard to see why our company would sport a much higher p/e ratio than a NYSE company in the same field of business. Thus I am moderately hopeful regarding the pps in coming months. What nobody knows is how the gap spreads will evolve. That is of course hugely important when it comes to the future pps for BDCO.
gosox I think quite a few know about this company. I think the reason why the pps is so low is that oil refiners are under a cloud because they are regarded as a sunset industry. AS RD mentioned a NYSE company in this sector had a significent rise in the pps the other day. It is trading at a p/e ratio of 2.2 as I mentioned. Today the price of crude is down 3% in my country at least.
gosox The problem is that there are very few buyers of these shares.
Same with me too.
RD I checked its p/e ratio. It is 2.20.
RD Despite the total silence from your employer it looks as if you have received your salary at the right time this month too.
What happened not long before the close is what has happened again and again and again: Somebody sells a considerable number of shares with apparently no limit and the pps drops drastically because there are few binds. Why this happens I don't know. It may not have too much effect on the pps in a day or two.
The market is surprisingly tight right now. Very few shares at the asked price at any price. Shareholders seem to expect some great news.
Novacane "If you have too many shares many will be shaken out." If you understand what you stated literally (too many shares) you may be right. I think post readers will think that you mean a lot of shares. Then it is illogical. If you have a lot of shares you may for instance sell enough shares to cover your costs in buying the shares and still have a lot of shares after that. If you have relatively few shares you may feel that you cannot sell any in case the pps may go still higher.
Novacane Your advice seems illogical. If you expect the pps shareholders to enjoy amazing gains over three years it would be natural to advise people to buy more shares and not to absatin from holding too many shares.
gosox The way I see it crude, diesel and jet fuel behave differently from for instance computers. If there is less demand than what is produced the price falls so that there is a new balance between production and consumpltion. I find it hard to understand why such a contract matters much for a producer of jet fuel. I have assumed that everything that is produced is sold and that what matters is the price at which it is sold.
gosox I agree with the first part of your post. There is only fitful substantial buying as in the past. In this sort of situation is is normal that the pps falls back again I think when there is no hitting the asked price. This sort of thing has happened again and again since last summer. The pps was traded at a high of about $ 2.10 in this period. It seems that it takes substantial news to take the pps significantly higher if the pps is to stay at that higher level.
I have no opinion as to the possible shorting. There may be shorting or there is not in my view. But I don't think shorting is necessary to explain the way the pps movesl.
MM Having the cash in one's sccount is not always enough based on my experience! It happened to me that a dubious US company declared a dividend which was to be paid a particular date. My Norwegian broker paid me the dividend according to the information received. Later the money had to be paid back. The reason was tjhat the dividend was not paid by the company in accordance with the obligations of the company.
Only 400 shares for sale below 2 dollars!:" 1.90 100 10:25
GTSM 1.93 100 02/03
JANE 1.94 100 10:20
INTL 1.94 100 10:20"
Surprisingly high bid this morning. This is encouraging
Traderfan BIOT looked interesting as an investment if you were in a position to pay $ 1.25 for the shares in BIOT that were not covered by the in REEM LLC shares. If you made no additional payment the calculated profit from having shares in BIOT would have been vastly reduced compared with at least my expectation. I have no fresh money and the Cow Capital alternative therefore appeared to be the most attractive one.
When it comes to the warrants you mention I don't want to comment here on the possible legal implicatons as I have a degree in law in my country.
Traderfan I notice that BIOT is down rather sharply today compared with the way this stock has been trading for several weeks. The trehd of the pps has been consistently upwards until very recently. "10.14
-0.09 (-0.88%)"
I guess the very narrow trading range reflects a situation where the shareholders will have their 10 dollars back (plus some interest?) if there is no combination?
Big buyer: "CDEL 1.75 25,315" It looks promising that a big buyer appears. Very recently there was a seller that offered 30,000 shares at a pps of $ 1.65.
It has happened several t imes that the pps jumps when there is a big buy and comes down again very fast afterwards as far as I remember.
Novacane The bids and asked prices right now seem a bit promising. I read in a Norwegian newspaper today that the price of diesel in Europe is expected to rise a good beal because there is going to be less Russian export of diesel.
karla I think a balance sheet is in a different sphere from a stock trading on a stock exchange. There are I think millions of stocks that have balance sheets wiithout trading on a stock exchange. Balance sheets relate to assets and liabilities. These can be published even if the stock is not trading on a stock exchange.
RD In regard to the IREEM LLC shaes my view is that at least in my countrt which taxes the value of shares by roughly one percent it is right to regard the value at the end of last year as what I paid for the shares. What will happen in the future is nothing but guesswork. It is impossible to establish a different value based on future possibilities I think.
aandt I support you as a moderator. You come across as a very nice and well-meaning person.
It appears that the future crack spread for jet fuel is even a bit higher than the current crack spread for gasoline.
"FEB 2023
JFCG3
47.830
18:04:59 CT
24 Jan 2023"
Crack spreads My impression is that this goes for gasoline which does not matter much for this company. The gas spreads of jet fuel and diesel matter much more I think.
RD "But... Cow Capital was going to be self-underwritten. And the target already known (Masala Capital).
I think the plan was to raise $600M+ including PIPE money, and acquire Masala for another $648M, resulting in 50% "dilution" of the stock.
I'm not sure what's in it. But it's the wealth management arm. It probably includes most of the assets and revenues that Interups has achieved so far. And it may have very good prospects going forward. That was the idea right? So the shares may very well be worth a lot more than $10 in the long run."
You describe the plans for Cow Capital the way I remember it. But Cow Capital at the earliest became a company last year - an empty comoany I would guess. I assume that Masala Capital was assumed to include part of the activities and assets of ITUP. We have received no information about their value. Based on published past profits and assets og ITUP a natural question would be if this value is fully reflected in the stake ITUP is to have in Masala Capital, which seems to be more or less a start-up. Perhaps this is a better cause for legal action than getting shares in another company than Masala Capital?
I subscribed not to Cow Capital but t o IREEM LLC. I expected those shares to be converted to shares in Cow Capital in the future. But I knew this was far from certain. There might be no conversion at all. I expected the shares in Cow Capital to rise far beyond 10 dollars in a year or two. But getting shares worth 10 dollars as a point of departuere is getting no shares at all and having my money back. One possibility is to sell shares in BIOT in the market and to buy shares in Cow Capital in the market since the former will preseumably be tradeable before shares in Cow Capital are tradeable.
RD What was Com Capit al in October last year? I kniow nothing about that. To me it was pie in the sky: something that was expected to happen in the future, which may or may not happen. In a best-case scenario it was fantastic. In a worst-case scenario there could be little value. We were told when signing the contract that there might be no combination and that we would get our money returned as far as I remember. Thus we were aware that there might be no upside.
An addition to my post
As far as justice is concerned it is a point that the shareholders of ITUP stand to have a significant indirect interest in Cow Capital when that company becomes a reality through their stake in ITUP. That stake will be related to the money they invested in ITUP which seems just to me. There is from one point of view an advangage og spreading risk by haveing an indirect stake in Cow Capital and a direct sake in BIOT and later its successor after combination. Getting a lot of cheap shares in Cow Camptal based on relatively few shares in ITUP does not look especially just. I guess a court of law might pay attention to this too in the current circumstances.
Dear Laxmi
As I have suggested before I accept and respect your choice. I think it is relevant when it comes to what is fair that shareholders of ITUP had the choice to buy up to 150,000 shares at a pps of 15 cents even if they owned only a handful of shares. I am not sure what Cow Capital was as a legal entity in October last year. I just skimmed certain parts of the Ire IREEM document but I got the impression that there was little reference to Cow Capital in it. Cow Capital seems t o have been a pretty loose scheem to me. This is underpinned by the fact that the "meat" to combine with - Masala Capital - does not even now has not reached the stage where it can be combined with another company. I find it hard to believe that a judge that goes for a fair solution will support the views of a shareholder of ITUP who claims he is entitled to shares in a future Cow Capital rather than shares in BIOT or its successor after a combination. Would that be JUSTICE in the current circumstances???
On closer consideration I am not sure that those who contest getting BIOT shares have a good case. What is Cow Capital? Does it have any business right now? Does it have a lot of capital? My impression is that it is at most a plan to raise a lot of capital. What was of interest to me and I guess others was the company that represented the real business. We had some idea but no binding information as to what that business would be. We were not even sure that the combination would take place. If there was no combination within the time limit we would get our money back. The shares of Cow Capital were designed to be worth 10 dollars initially which is the same as Biot has actually been trading at. In these circumstances there are several things that suggest that getting shares in BIOT is an acceptable alternative the situation being what it is.
RD If that happens I hope it will be sent in the mail. The last round cost me about 1,200 dollars and a lot of stress. If I have the choice I think I will choose to have the BIOT shares instead of going through the same process once again. The BIOT alternative will result in me getting tradeable shares faster I guess. At my age time is money.
There is a saying that you should not look a gift horse in the mouth. But as a berson with a legal education my hunch is that there may be some shareholders that will contest the chioce to give shares in BIOT instead of Cow Capital even if it is expected to be in the best interest of those who receive them. This may above all happen it it turns out the the shares of Cow Capital are worth many times more than the shares of BIOT. One way to redress this might at some time in the fuiure to give those who receive shares in BIOT some shares in Cow Capital too.