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I had roughly estimated at a $.02 stock price another 21 million shares to be issued, plus that if they had to raise $1 million this year ( which their 10k/10q clearly indicates at least this amount) that would bring share count up to roughly 150 million.
So if share price dropped to $.005, and company actually could bring in $4 million, one could then see 1 billion shares outstanding and another reverse.
I agree unlikely to reach a billion shares outstanding under tehse secnarios,as if they could bring in $4 million, that would imply they got permit and began or very close to processing ore- at that point IR would have to be incredibly inept to have a $.005 share price.
Of course they have to dilute, who would expect them not to except for "traditional financing" which I admit I don't really understand how they would get. I woudl be curious how other people see the next 6 months. Frankly I think if the company survives this year and has a credible plan and schedule to go into production this year or next, it will prove a great speculative investment.
Good Morning, I figure 21.9 million shares from convert if one uses $.02 price.
I come up with around 21.9 million shares from the convertibles at a price of $.02.
1.$164,000/(stock price times 50%) = 16.4 million shares
( note if stock price is .02 and discount 50%, they get shares at $.01), second the unamortised discount is part of total face value of note as far as I can see).
2.$64,000/(stock price times 70%)= 4.92 million
2.$8,023 (stock price times 70%) = .57 million.
Of course if stock price fluctuates, this could be a higher or lower number.
Keep in mind the people who provide such financing normally couldnt care less about the price, they want volume- their discount is built-in and automatic. If they sell and have three days to settle with their broker that is fine with them.
This permit discussion quite interesting.
My understanding from these posts is permits approved with certain conditions imposed. Presumably those conditions require either an inspection and sign-off, or construction of certain facilities which requires funds the company doesn't have.Plus the company has several pressing items for which fudns are needed.
It would not be a huge surprize therefore that the mill can't be operating by September because of bureacratic delay,lack of funds to meet conditions.This type of situation is not uncommon in mining industry and frankly without someone who knows lay of the land locally, hard to project whether company will or will not be able to operate the mill in September/October- though company has forecast those months.Seems pretty aggressive to me but all the credit to them if they can pull it off.
The other item of interest is the impression I am receiving that once permit is received without conditions that this will all of a sudden generate instant financing, and one just flicks on a switch and one is producing cash flow. Now it is possible CFO has convinced some financing source to fund upon receiving the permit without conditions, I can be pleasantly surprized that mill can be made instantly operational, and ore all ready to be shipped to mill, and workers can be found quickly with experience in this type of mill, and all mill supplies can be ordered quickly.
I still think this is a good short term speculation,and could be a fantastic one as market gets more comfort they will produce, whether now or next year. Now CFO just needs to pull a rabbit out of the hat to keep the progress moving forward and the lights on !
Good evening,can you point me to right place to see that "most" can be converted in the next 12 months, thanks.I have bene operating udner assumption all will be converted within next 6 months.
November 2009 powerpoint if I understand correctly indicating a grade of around .30 oz old per ton.
Still pretty good !
Certainly great numbers but do we know enough to make even an order of magnitude projection :
first , are you saying each ton gives net of recovery 1 ounce of gold ? that is very high. ( is that the historic average?)
second,that comes out to over 100,000 ounces of gold per year.i assume in $1,000 you are including costs to have resources/reserves ahead of production.( one doesnt just go udnerground and scoop up gold as i am sure you know).
third, whom will they sell gold to and what will be that charge ?their 2009 powerpoint gives recovery percentage of 95% , not sure if that includes any smelter or refining charges.
I quite agree increasing price of gold gives a very good margin potential. Since mine has no established reserves, going into production implies management willing to take a produce based on historic resource reports. Just out of curiosity how many tons have been identified in the old reports, and what is time frame for development to reach those resources .
If grade only 1/2 oz per ton ( still very good),you will see economics change significantly.
how many levels at mine and what is access between levels ?
highly doubt anyone in their right mind would invest in convertible note that could be reversed out, and not common a 2 to 3 year restriction but certainly possible (i didnt read actual convertibel note agreement).
Thanks for info. By the way if I understand this correctly they have over $200,000 in face value of convertibles at various discounts to market price when they convert.
Also, for the class B shares is par value lumped together with class A ?
Dilution is unavoidable-there are the existing convertibles on the books, and the company has various signficiant cash needs this year. The concept of a bank loan seems to be an unlikely one in short term as no one seems to be able to explain what type of bank would lend under these circumstances. With a DTC chill and current share price, probably some challenges in a private placement.
As far as progress on mill I would be curious with no cash how much progress can be occurring,and it would seem according to permit application lots of work needed to meet compliance requirements. But hopefully management can turn on a dime when funding arrives, or even if they miss their target, solid progress towards operating status in 2014.
My personal forecast is that outstanding shares will reach at least 150 million by end of the year,and that they are running out of time to meet a september/october start date. Possible they could reach 200 million in first quarter 2014 and a small reverse split- but if they are generating a profit in 2014, could be a huge winner this stock.
Just my opinin but if you look at their comments on the 10k/q about financial requirements even exlcuding working capital and capital for mill, CFO certainly has a big task this year.The convertibles have a substantial discount to market price upon conversion which alone will increase dilution.
So what if they dilute- they will have no choice, issue is of dilution is about value added, and IR ability to generate interest. Even if they delay custom milling until 2014, and then production from mining 2015, still not a bad story for company with this market cap. Of course they have to dilute !
I quite like their fact sheet, if they would drop this "metal in the ground" reference,provide some rough numbeer to support the projecton they give, would be quite nice. This metal in the ground reference quite aggressive, and I am fairly certain if they have a SEC standard review this would come up though CFO might not realize this- though he may have taken decision this is such a strong marketing tool that worth the bother.
The SEC frowns on using the word resoruce but does permit mineralized material ( generally indicated and measured resource). I for one would much prefer that calculation, which has grade and tons, than metal in the ground absent costs to extract.
Mining industry different than most industries, so management expertise which as you note doesn't always require starting in the email room, does require understanding the basic mining economics.Just strikes me as so odd they project revenue and gross margin, in 10k forecast capital requirements in every area but capital requirements to produce.
I agree we probably agree on many things, in particular this is a speculation with appeal if the junior mining equity sector turns around in 2013 with a stable or rising gold price.
I also believe a good entry point. It is a bit frustrating company seems to have a hard time, for years, getting a "proper" valuation in the market place, but they certainly have solid and conservative management and good operational expertise.
Seems they sometmes have difficulty grasping the market, their offer for US Silver way too low, they should still acquire one of these days.
I believe an excellent stock to accumulate for medium and long term.
The mill may have a replacement cost of $12 million.However (a) if I read their filings correctly it has a first and second mortgage on it (b)even as collateral which is fine a bank still would want evidence of cash flow to pay a mortgage, and even then it is rare that a bank would lend money to a mining company without established reserves or operating income.A smelter or refiner contract could be be an inducement for a bankfor a wroking capital line though- but still doesnt solve capital required. It may be that banks in Colorado are lending more freely than every other state in the union, maybe someone with experience with Colorado banks could comment- but a third mortgage on the mill ?
I cant comment on value of uranium caims.However there may be a confusion over estimated resources or reserves. Reserves require a feasibility study which to best of my knowledge company doesnt have. NI43-101 reports may report "historical resources" but to show a current reasource data must be relatively current. The NI43-101 is a report that provides with guidelines for what can or cant be reported, and to quote reserves there are speciifc CIMM guidelines that must be followed.Estimating the value of metals in the ground without deductions for metallurgical recoveries and costs to extact is usually frowned upon by most regulatory bodies, and often an indication of inexperience in the industry.Proving reserves takes funds , and my impression company is more focused on getting mill permitted and operational.
They already have convertibles that will result in further dilution, and just my opinion they will have to rely on more convertibles this year. Not the end of the world if they can keep advancing towards production.
I will say though CFO has a lot of various experience in finance, maybe he can find a hard money lender.
Good morning and thank you for taking the time to outline your thoghts, and look forward to your observation on my response.
Variables : I quite understand there are variables outside the company's control, I believe my questions have clearly indicated that, and with any micro-cap in the mining sector there are financing difficulties. But if the company can specifically forecast revenues, gross margin and a target start date, and in their 10q other financial requirements but no estimate of mill re-activaton expenses, the company certainly could provide estimates of capital required to go into production. Would it scare me as an inevstor if they projected $2 million required this year to advance toward production - no it wouldn't,it is worrisome how this question avoided.
Experience- I can only go by what experience listed on the 10k. He definitely has financial experience, and since that is what company needs in short term,great. He doesnt appear to have experience in mining production and operations,nor investors relations in this sector. I agree fact they have continued to slog through permitting proces a positive, and you are spot on guy doesnt appear to have received a full cash paycheck and even lent money to company. The information contained in a NI43-101 would be helpful, but of course a formal NI43-101 report not necessary for a US company. The SEC Guide 7 is another matter, that is precisely the SEC Guide on information to be presented for a mining company, the question is do they present this information on their filings.
IR- Fully understand cutting back on IR expense,though it would seem consulting with an IR person would be extremely helpful. FYI I did contact this company a year ago, based on responses I didnt think they would produce in 2012, that they would do a large reverse split. Frankly if I can get answers through reviewing their filings and discussions on this board,so much the better, though I probably will call them when I feel I have answered as much as I can through research.The issue is pretty fundamental, are they presenting their message in a manner that will help build their credibility long term and attract more investor interest.
No one is asking for info to pump the stock- in fact my position the opposite, build credibility by not selectively giving out aggressive forward looking statements.
I completely agree with you that it is run on a shoe string and has huge possible upside. There are few companies with this market cap that have producton potential in a 12 to 36 month time frame. Metal prices are high but 90% of mining stocks were down last year.So speculative potential is huge, hence why I am looking more closely at this company.I actually think with a different way of presenting the company the stock price would improve which would make CFO's job easier.
I guess we can agree on some things, and agree to disagree that a company that is projecting producton in the current year should avoid providing the key fundamental forecasts that support their own projections.
Quite interesting your comments about the permit. It is not unusual for any mining company to have various issues involving permits , and most people who invest in junior mining stocks are quite well aware permitting delays occur beyond the control of the company- though experienced mining executives will take this into account when giving projections.As an investor what I find it more interesting is it will require funds to meet the permit requirements, and some time, thus trying to tie in even in the best case scenario how will management meet September/October start date.
I am learning a lot on this board, when I ask such questions seems supporters of stock instantly get defensive and list all sorts of reasons why the company shouldn't be expected to present a credible story to investors. Or that cant release forward looking statements, except simply to say they will produce,have revenue and a gross margin forecast- selective forward looking statements seems the policy.
Company has continued to go through a permitting process,they are financing company only way they can ( through convertibles)and there are many many junior mining companies hanging on by a thread both in Canada and USA . As far as CFO concerned like anyone he is trying to make a living. Here is a company which ended on last 10q with under $5,000 in the bank - that there is a chance they may keep control of mill, have some mining properties, and may produce in 2013/2014 , one has to give credit to CFO fur survival of this company. I agree there are many questions unanswered questions that could very easily be cleared up,but isnt calling this a scam a bit harsh ?However, again I am new to this board so perhaps there is some history to this company I dont know
1. re : forward looking statements- As I read the link you provided it specifically refers to problems not disclosed.We seem to be looking at the same information and getting different understanding. Company itself has provided forward looking information by predicting production in September/October. My questions have only been where is the sort of basic information that almost always accompanies such forward looking statements.( In any case, also you can compare SEC Guide 7 to the company 10k/10q filings whether they are disclosing according to those guidelines). I am not sure why this is a problem for company to disclose.
2. re IR - My comment was that with a company so close to production with a weak share price, perhaps they need an IR person.As far as CFO doing things his own way, well that is nice, but in final analysis it should be judged against success- and certainly if he is inexperienced in this industry it wouldn't hurt looking at how typically such information is presented: that might be precisely why there are so many questions.Kind of interesting- seems if shareholders ask questions, it seems resented and then shareholders told to go elswhere.Supposedly Guyer works for the shareholders no ?
Look, I already wrote I remain convinced this is a 1 to 6 month speculative play. I am trying to determine whether it may be a worthwhile investment in a larger amount. If you review my posts I believe they have not been bashing the company but asking relevant questions. Why do I get the distinct impression my questions seem to hit a nerve ? These guys control a mill,and apparently have some potential resources that at some point could be mined as well as custom milling potential- gretsa potential there whether it would happen in 2013 or 2014.
I agree sometimes one reads comments that are just negative in word and tone, but though I am new to this board,there are so many basic questions a typical mining company answers but this one doesn't - I think that may generate some of the negative tone.But then again for a stock at these prices, and a CFO being the driving force who doesnt have much experience in this industry, the compay controlling a mill and advancing through the permit process is an achievment.
The orders they refer to I wil give company benefit of the doubt that they are valid orders which is the word they use, rather than expressions of intent. As such they must have terms included, and one wonders why company wouldn't release such terms, or if production based on these orders why such terms wouldnt be considered material enough to release ?
Like a jig-saw puzzle this company, a good sorry but pieces seem to be missing and hard to find answers.Maybe they need an IR person to help sort out. How could company going into production in 6 1/2 months be trading at these levels ? Maybe it is a real bargain.
Those quotes you refer to are very promising.
Brings up interesting question : if permit requires for operation a tailings repository, and if company projecting a september/october state, does this mean they have to design and construct a tailings repository within 6 months ? or since no financing announced, seems company will be under pressur eto meet their guidelines. Once they build, will it not have to be inspected before operations begin ?
Have to disagree about value of mining property without permit to produce having no value - there are perhaps hundreds of mining companies, or mining properties that have value in the market place which do not have a permit.
However , if management outlined a plan towards production that included basic information, and also announced timetables and met those timetables there would be a lot more value.(I am being reptitive here I know). Or even establish an indicated resource.
Of course to realize whatever value that is there, they need to finance the company during this peiord. For those who claim " traditional" financing available one wonders what such financing would be based on ? Could someone who has referred to "traditional financing" explain what that means ?
Thanks
I will call some of brokers you list on Tuesday, but I admit I find it hardly credible that I can open an account and short this stock though I have never tried before.
By traditional financing do you meen a private placement of equity or bank financing ?
Few banks lend to mining companies without either a feasibility report, or ongoing operations that provide collateral for their exposure.These days all over the country banks have pulled back their lending due to regulatory pressure, and the mill apparently is encumbered by a first and a second. The company forecasting processing by October by custom milling and if I understand ( based on their prior powerpoint) a year later production from mining. I guess I am having a bit of difficulty understanding what a bank would be lending against ?
Since their is a DTC chill on the stock, and price under $.10,one would assume a private placement would be challenging.
Having said that if company is correct mill will be fully permitted by June 30, and custom milling by Seeptember/October,and $9 million in orders (see below), certainly with positive cash flow and an operating mill company should do very well.
Just trying to understand. What does $9 million orders mean ? Measured in orders to process ounces of Gold ( say 5400 to 5600 ounces ?), what are terms ? In terms of construction requirements to meet permit requirements, etc, what does this entail as far as capital ?
Dont get me wrong- if company truly doesnt need any more permits, can meet its ket financial requirements,and can be providing positive cash flow by fall, it wil do very very well. Even if they have to get some more converts to reach that level.
Just my personal opinion, but to achieve their plan in 2013/2014 they will be at least 150 million shares outstanding if not 200 million by the end of the year at these price levels.
this is obviously very positive these approvals, and if company is saying all conditions for final approvals to be met by end of second quarter, then 3 to 4 months later they are processing, well that certainly would be most impressive.
I can be convinced it is theoretically possible to short this stock, but the prior posts pinting to two retail brokerages if i understand correctly indicated (a) they had to have shares to short, and one of brokerage firms mentioned didnt(b)also if I understand correctly there was a margin required of $2.50 per share (?) ,hence rather obvious I believe no one would put up such a margin.
(If my understanding incorrect of the prior post on this subject please do tell me where I am wrong).
I have been waiting for a few years for someone to show me 1 retain brokerage account where I could short a stock under $.08.
Market makers do have a period of time they can short a stock, but every market maker I have ever talked to says for a stock trading like this it would extremely unusual for a market marker to short past 1 to 3 days, and especially past 5 days. So they say.
I saw your post excellent.
Thank you for a most informative email.
I still am interested in the name of any retail brokerage that would allow client to short Colorado Goldfields stock (Interactive doesnt seem to have them on their list of shortable stocks), andor one that would do for less than $2.50 per share margin.
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As far as market makers when they go short , market makers tell me this counts against their net working capitalwhich effects of course how much they can trade. If they miss deadline to cover habitually, this can have consequences for them over time with regaultory agencies. It may be common on a day trading basis,and even on a three day settlement, but market makers I know say typicaly they would not short a sub penny stock and especially one without meaningful volume.
No mystery I think in this stock, you have s8 registered shares , and convertible note holders, so doesnt seem a shortage of stock that can hit the market.
Admit I do not know what formula they use for estimating "short volume".However no one seems to be able to provide name of broker who will let clients short a stock like this, and market makers, while they do have a bit of time to cover,most I have spoken to refer to shorting sub penny stocks as an urban legend- but since people keep posting about the shorting of such stocks I keep wondering.
Hi Brendan.I agree once mill is operational, or a plan announced that shows a clear time table and economics of how they will get it too productiona and will have ore to process, this stock could do very very well.
The outstanding convertibles and any new ones entered into will of course be hitting the market during the year.
Just curious, you mentioned people shorting the stock. Which broker in the United States would permit retail clients to sort a penny stock like this , or are you thinking market makers short a stock like this during the period they may have such a position not covered ?
All mining companies struggle with getting permits these days so no surprize, but that is only one hurdle company has to go through.
I am completely mystified by discussion of a bank lending money when permit granted, mill seems encumbered to original owner, and if I read 10k correctly there is already a second on the mill.So if no cash flow, no feasibility report, no estanlished reserves, what would bank lend against.
The fact company is signing deals without cash already arranged is not untypical for small mining company.
I havent followed company long enough to judge,but key is whether current management shows a track record of being able to meet their own projections,and whether they have ability to raise the keu funding they need in this critical year.
However if they can pull it off this year, my own projection is 2014 could be a stellar year. If they are a bit more conservative in projections, or support aggressive projections, it would help in my opinion.
Thanks to everyone who answered my posts, been a good learning experience.
Hecla presents one of the most solid silver equity investments yet for years has had problem getting traction in the markets-Part of the issue has been it needs a larger market cap to get larger institutions into play, and company has traditionally been very conservative in promotion. However the numbers when Lucky Friday opens and grows over next few years will eventually become compelling.
For example buying US Silver may not have been the best business move, but would have been seen very favorable by the market. However CEO knows this is a risky industry and prefers to be conservative. I can't think of a better mining stock considering risk-reward profile.
As far as MSHA , Congress came down hard on MSHA because of the coal industry for new and bothersome regulations which have in practice even more bothersome the last 4 years. No mining company is escaping increased scrutiny, especially those with older mines Company as far as we know can hardly be faulted for burdensome regulation.
Great company.
You have been quite positive about this stock for a long time. It seems price down and down, they are involved with all sorts of businesses with no capital, and the Hip Hop venture hasnt generated any cash flow. Financial sttements had to be amended and still look rather odd.It seems every projection they have given since 2010 never is achieved. At what point should management step down in your opinion ?
I try to give everyone benefit of the doubt,but I am curious what is it about this stock that leads you to believe company will do well ?
While President may not know much about financial reporting or achieving objectives or raising capital, certainly appears he has some technical ability.Do you feel that is sufficient ? Looking at their past press releases and filings I get impression he is willing to enter into any deal to generate news, but he can never execute ? If this is incorrect plese explain 1 success they have had last 3 years. Mortgage lead generation, cable tv, mining, hip hop, how can anyone do all these businesses at the same time ?
Not sure about the "even to you comment" how to interpet, I am just gathering informatin at this point- and I certainly havent yet reviewed 9 years of history. I agree with you there are pink sheet companies where management supports themselves by keeping volume in their stock, no doubt.
question- since you have looked at their 9 year track record, in your opinion (a) will they meet the fall projected start date ? (b) ballpark how many shares outstanding would you expect by september (c)do you expect another reverse split this year ?(d)since i am rather mystified, do you also find it odd they release some forward projections but without estimates of capital required either on 10k or promotional mteral?
thanks.
Thanks, I did note that but I had made assumption CFO would have abstained from voting on his own salary.
As I see it if this fellow truly wishes to make that amount of money, he has to pull some rabbits out of the hat with financing this year, and very soon. Thus it would seem to be he has a lot of incentive to perform.I realize some may take it another way that his salary will casue excess dilution. However, it seems they need to raise so much money this year that either they do and make a success or they dont, so his dilution wont really matter. Of course a third way to look at it is what projectiosn has managementmade the last three years, and which ones have they met.
I Read your email again, seems there are a few items that perhaps we didnt understand each other.
1. "You seem to be looking for capital requirements so you wont have to make speculative investment decision".
I made clear I looked on this as a short term speculation, which considering potential volatility in this period leading up to projected production in 2013,and that I had no problems with purchasing stock on that basis. Second, I indicated I was searching for a a few very basic questions to be answered in order to determine whether to make what I would call an investment decision on whether tomake a larger purchase based in medium term possibilities.
2.DD Strategy based on SEC reports - quite agree SEC reports only one source of information, hence communicating with people like yourself who have followed stock longer than I is very helpful, and of course company's own promotional material is also helpful.
3. Re CFO- I am not complaining about his salary as evidently borrd considers $300k per year reasonable for his level of experience. Actually I think it is a plus, because to make $300k per year-whether now or later- from this company will take a lot of effort so he has incentive.Presumably he has some benchmarks to meet.
4 Re Contacting CFO and doing homework : Quite agree that before contacting CFO I should do my homework.Also CFO cant for a public company release any information to me that hasnt been released to others. And since he doesnt believe providing investors the capital requirements - though the section on liquidity on the 10k they could have easily amplified- I doubt I would gain more information.
I do appreciate you taking the time to respond to my questions and comments. I admit I still am mystified why considering that a company going into production in the fall,which releases some forward-looking information but omits certain key information , that asking these basic questions apparently is out of line- or normal that company doesnt present such projections the way most junior mining development stage companies would.
As fas the company not having much cash, and having big capital requirements this is quite a normal situation for junior mining companies. They brought in over $400,000 last year, and if they start production in the fall as they project this stock could explode in price upwards.
By the way, how do I access the DRMS database ?
I am not bashing the stock and I take them at their word that they believe what they project and that CFO believes he has a reasonable chance to raise financing to implement their busines plan- and when he doesnt he will of course update their projected start date.
Good observations, and nothing wrong with being cautious especially in an industry with so many risk factors.I quite agree a company not meeting their own projections can drive investors away.And the company whatever the problems they had in 2012 ( seems they have been projecting production for some time unless I am mistaken) did bring in over $400,000 in cash.
I wish the best for the company, and guess it just seems unreasonable to some to ask for basic information in regards to production the company itself is projecting for the fall.
This could be an excellent speculation and investment- if CFO can pull a few rabbits out of the that in funding company- especially in a climate of rising gold prices.I expect delays in production,permitting,etc, so that wont be a surprize, nor if they have to rely on more convertible debt financing.
Seems to strike a nerve asking for even the most basic information
that almost any pre-production junior mining company would typically release if they project production in the current year. I admit I am a bit mystified. In response to your post :
1.I have already decided this is a good speculative vehicle in the short term, I am just trying to gather information to decide whether to look at a more sizeable investment.
2.As far as forward looking statements- the company has already done this in their powerpoint and corporate brochure, providing revenue and gross margin percentage forecast. Since the questions emerge from their own selective projections, I do not see it as unreasonable to understand their own projections.Thier SEC disclosure on capital requirements certainly doesnt seem to be complete.
3.I certainly believe before contacting the CFO it makes sense for me to learn about the company, through reviewing public information and consulting people like yourself who have followed the company longer.As far as his being paid either in cash or shares my point simply if the fellow is to earn $300,000 a year, and has a huge task ahead of him, common courtesy would be not to waste his time until I have finished my review.I respect that he has this huge task.
4. The information they have released simply does not provide sufficient basis even to gte a ballpark idea of whether they will be able to produce in the fall. As I have written I do not really care whether they produce in the fall or next year, but I do care whether management has the ability to pull this off,and how probably it may be- this could be a superb medium and long term investment. The SEC reports do not provide very much information compared to what usually a junior mining company about to produce would release.Look at SEC Guide 7, it is only a few pages, it outlines information normally expected.
Yes I am trying to do my homework, which - and sorry if I misinterpet your email- seems to get on the nerves of some people.
I do agree with you projections and forward-looking statements need to be considered carefully, but if one gives out a projection that one is going into production it is not unreasonable imo if figures dont make sense to ask for a bit more informaton. If they are going into production without reserves or even indicated resources, fine as long as we know. endeavor did just that and became a big success.
Thanks for taking time to answer my posts,and let's cross our fingers management meets their own projections !
Agree company doesnt have to report every detail, but why not some basic information to make an investment ( as opposed to speculative decision on ?).I agree it is important to know company has all required permits in place with conditions met,or a reasonable timetable of when they will get the same. But I must say I am unsure why knowing rough parameters of capital required and what key assumptions that projecton is based upon is meaningless.
You are write some of the posts-including my own- went into perhaps too much detail,probably right.However if company doesnt present type of information that is standard amongst even junior mining companies in a pre-production phase, I do not see how that is investors fault to want to know how capital is required, is their fall projection still on track, what are grades and recoveries.
Management has to know this information, to have been able to forecast a fall 2013 start date. So next question why they dont release and why they dont present information on project that normally is standard in the industry and in the market for such companies ?
I do feel these are valid questions and not beating down the company, I do think an interesting speculation. How can it not be important how much capital they need to meet their own business plan ? Otherwise whether mill permit received or not ( or any additional permits),how can investor have even a rough idea they can meet their plans or CFO knows enough of this industry to manage well the financing process.
Actually prefer to continue trying to understand the company by reading their filings with SEC, review their web site, and ask questions of those such as yourself who have followed the company for a while.No reason to waste CFO's time if answers already out there- a guy who is making $300,000 per year, with a stock after a 5000 to 1 reverse split is at $.05, and needs to raise several million dollars to meet his own projected fall start date, must be a busy man ! And in final analysis I have come to conclusion over the last week that he must have projections of CAPEX required, and other information, he must have his own reasons for not releasing- or he doesnt consider material information for investors. Maybe next week !
Looking at their prior powerpoint they do not expect mining profits in first year but revenue from custom milling, and saw that they plan to produce "buttons" for shipment to refiner as opposed to smelter, as well as copper/basemetal concentrates. Interesting it semes they did some dirlling in 2008 but those results unless I overlooked not in their 10k.
Thansk for all your responses.
Yes quite interesting the issue of mill capacity as I also thought it referred to tons per day , not per shift.The estimate of 15 to 25 people at mill operation based on a few other companies I have seen actually sounds about right especially if they are at 700 tons.The other issue is how many days per year do they expect to be mining ,and milling, and effect of repairs and maintenance. I saw one operation a bit higher than 700 tons forecast only 253 days of producing operations as (a) they found it uneconomic to run three shifts per day mining (b) down time for maintenance and repairs.
If they ship to smelter usually smelters prefer a contractual arrangement, and pay X% on arrival, then balance in 30 and 60 days with as you indicate back and forth about assay results. The smaller the shipments the less leverage on terms. Then they pay X% of spot price (generally). That is what caught my eye in their projection of 95% recovery, and why I ask how they will ship and get paid. I admit I havent reviewed whether there are any penalty elements ( I assume not) that would cause further deductions. I admit I dont know what their final product is,nor the mining method.Also since no details released on the $9 million in orders, how does CGFI pay those clients ?
Eeven if they dont have reserves, if they are estimating an average grade of .5 what is that based on ? former production records ? sampling ? what is the mining width ?
Since company indicates they have prepared internally reports based on NI43-101 guidelines ( though one has to ask why not just SME guidelines), they will have all this sort of information at their fingertips. I certainly hope their projection accounted for CAPEX and working capital requirements and they meet their fall 2013 projection - will make a lot of happy sharehodlers to be sure !
re financier accumulating. i must be misunderstanding the finance they have received. i though existing financing was from convertible notes- i.e. funds suplied to company, then in six months note holder converts at a significant discount.i know of no company that provides such financing that holds shares. are you saing they also accumulate in the market ?dont get me wrong, if they can deliver a plan and then execute it so price increases that can offset the convertibe financing.if CFO can get any other financing it this market, my hat is off to him.
i also do not udnerstand their 10k, why is so much basic information that almost any mining company releases per SEC Guide 7 guidelines not presented ?
i really would like to take a more substantial position in this stock, just dont understand a few things. thanks to everyone for providing information.
In regards to information I certainly understand timing investor relations , however all I think investors would like at this point is some simple basic questions answered - and since they are a public company under a disclosure system material information is required to be released. Sure perhaps subjective what is material or not, but since they are quite willing to forecast revenues and gross profit %, why not key information like capital required ?