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Bban, have you ever class actioned?
I have been involved in 3. I got nothing in 2 of them. In the other I got 600 bucks and lost well north of 100k.
The only people who get money in a class action are the lawyers.
The best way to sue is a straight up contingent deal that gives the lawyer 30-40%. And thats IF you can find a lawyer willing to go up against the DOJ, FDIC, JPM, etc.
Our only hope is that the hedgies go after them and we ride the coattails.
As head of the DOJ, Dimon was the boss of Walrath and Collyer.
Plain and simple.
JPM was given special treatment because Dimon and Obama were close friends. And now Obama is worth well over 100 million?
And Holder gets a $77m salary from JPM?
Come on. This is all so obvious.
Eric Holder, Walrath and Collyer's boss...
Yep, Jamie took quite good care of him.
https://destee.com/threads/eric-holder-takes-77-million-job-with-jpmorgan-chase.81727/
Rosen doesn't just work for the LT.
IMO, he is auditioning for a lucrative job at JPM. Like Eric Holder whose judge appointees took care of Dimon, he is no doubt hopeful Dimon will take care of him too. Holder subsequently got a high paying position from Dimon for the great work he did essentially gifting JPM billions in this obviously unfair taking of WAMU.
Rosen is right in the sense that except for maybe 20 million and possibly some Libor money, the LT has nothing to disburse to escrows.
But why is he sticking his nose into the asset aspect when that has nothing to do with the LT.
It's obvious to me. He is interviewing for a job.
"Most importantly, it doesn't point to anything coming torward us"
Who said it did?
If you took a course in reading comprehension, my point was that Chase can spend money like a drunken sailor, especially having gotten windfall gifts from the fdic and doj, while the WAMU shareholders have languished in nothingness. Oh yeah, let's not forget that 30B that Dimon the thief giggled and bragged about.
Forgive Canadian credit card debt, and they throw a used rubber at the WAMU shareholders.
Where is the outrage? Crickets from the shareholders, employees, and hedgies. Like they've given up.
Chase forgives all Canadian credit card debt.
They made so much money fleecing WAMU that they can afford to blow off an entire country's debt.
Incredibly sickening.
I say Sept 26 will be much more significant than most here realize.
I understand the skepticism after all we've been through. Many dates have come and gone. But we are coming to the end now. Surely everyone must realize that. Even the meat man. 2 to 10 would only be a down payment.
Many a truth is said in hypotheticals.
Think about it. Hypothetically.
I think Walrath's 10B comment was not meant to be an accurate number by any means.
I think she was just trying to hint that there was indeed money under seal, i.e. safe harbor. It could be less but it likely is much more.
It was like she couldn't contain herself and she had to say something. She knows the angst that's out there among retailers, some who have lost their life savings, homes, spouses, health, etc. She could've just as easily said, look, there will be no further money so people shouldn't get their hopes up. But she didn't.
I find it hard to believe that she, Rosen, and others involved are so cold and cruel that they care nothing about those whose lives have been so profoundly devastated.
Walrath's $10B comment was well thought out and purposeful.
Judges do not make flippant remarks. This comment was a premeditated remark to say, yes there is money.....hint hint.
The questions remain, how much and when.
Living in California I can only imagine how much tax they will want from my escrow payout.
Time to get an offshore LLC.
Yes. Highly probable.
Compounded.
Plus performance which you have not factored in.
Remember also that Ps were trading at around $1300 at time of seizure.
Par for Ps is much more than $1k with 11 yrs of compounded dividends. I would calculate current par in the $3k range.
Having analyzed this case for 11 yrs, Ron and AZC are most accurate in their research IMO.
I tend to be a skeptic on pie in the sky sagas, but I truly believe that escrows will get paid. Dmdmd is also right, but I'm not sure if it will hit his numbers due to the corruption involved in this mess.
I expect news to hit any time now. There will be 8500 very angry retailers in addition to the hedgies if this is not resolved with a fair and reasonable result.
Hypothetical Q&A with Dimon at trial:
Hedge funds attorney: So, Mr. Dimon, when you found that extra $30B from the WAMU holdings that was unanticipated, didn't you think that should be a special consideration and as such, returned to the escrow shareholders of WAMU who lost everything in the fiasco?
Dimon: No. That was "found money". I jumped up and down like a kid when we uncovered that money. The WAMU shareholders had no claim to it. Screw them! Too bad about them! I bought a couple mansions for my children in the Caymans. My children needed new offices down there. The WAMU shareholders can go pound sand.
So what exactly is an omnibus hearing?
An omnibus hearing is a pretrial hearing. It is usually held soon after a defendant's arraignment. The main purpose of the hearing is to determine the evidence, including testimony and evidence seized at the time of arrest.
In our case, Sept 26 could be the precursor to a trial. It could also involve the wrapup of the BK.
To take it one step further, it could involve 5th amendment unfair taking, and even the start of RICO charges.
I believe it will be the beginning of the end of the BK based on information...
I do not believe that Rosen and Walrath want this to turn into a long, drawn out ugly trial. They have both indicated they want this over and done with.
And Dimon and Bair certainly don't want this to go to trial.
Nightdaytrader. Guess you didn't talk with him. I did.
He is "confident" this can be wrapped up this quarter or early in 4th Q.
Those are his words. Know that facts.
Sept 26th is the possible wrap. Nothing is definite in this saga but we are getting close to something.
Barr's boys may soon be breathing down their necks. They know it.
BK closing Sept 26. End of Q3 beginning of Q4. Just like Rosen said.
Libor may be part of that. Finally coming to a head.
Then COOP issues new Ps. All falling in place like a big puzzle.
I may be wrong. But I doubt it.
Might start to happen sooner.
Yes, thank you Ron.
It is obvious now that AG created this crisis for her own benefit. Those who threw money at her must feel as used as a two bit hooker.
BTW, my summary to Attorney General Barr goes in the mail today as promised. His staff will have fun with this one.
Denying 8500 shareholders their money will go over like a fart in church.
Tens and perhaps hundreds of billions being blocked from the economy will get priority treatment, no doubt.
Dimon, Bair, Walrath, and company have some splainin' to do.
Seamus, I am embarrassed for him too.
I can't imagine a 24 7 effort like his to try to disprove a future event.
Oh and BTW....
AZ was right. COOP is the tell. Watch and learn.
Billions of assets boarded.
Hmmmmmm....lovely.
Posting nonsense posts denigrates the good posters and constructive DD.
I wish it would stop, but it never does.
It likely also discourages good posters from posting.
Will escrows receive payment?:
As a review....
Rich Delgado from COOP said, on the record, that he did look into this matter about money coming back to escrows. His conclusion was that there would be no money coming to escrow holders in the future.
Janice Hearns, director of the FDICR, said to porkchopranch that there was nothing left for escrow holders and the FDIC would not be making any payments to escrow holders.
Brian Rosen has said repeatedly that safe harbor was a fantasy and dreams of money coming to escrows were unfounded.
Mike Willingham said dont hold your breath. The EC disbanded.
Judges Walrath, Collyer, and Claster couldnt care less about the moms and pops. Walrath giggled like a schoolgirl with a crush and acquiesced to Rosen
about everything he presented.
Dimon finds a bonus of $30B.
Instead of the court calling him out on that and demanding that be returned to the shareholders....we heard crickets, and they allowed him to keep it.
So many dates for payments have come and gone. With this above litany you might certainly think escrows are done like a dinner.
But they are not. Having followed this closely for 11 years, I feel strongly that money will be paid out.
Again, there is a new sheriff in town. Bill Barr has his hands full. But bet your bottom dollar that his staff will get to the bottom of it if we do not get news on restitution very soon.
Alice and her 3 million delay.
For all who extolled the virtues of her suit, and it is a suit, now do you feel stupid for giving her your cash?
She was in it all along for her own self interests IMO. Now that is evident to me.
If she demands payment from the LT this could present a protracted delay for any possible escrow payments.
Sure, keep giving her your money.....(rolls eyes).
And Walrath is ok with A&M getting all this money from the estate.
So either she is the most crooked judge in financial case history, or she knows exactly what is under seal and must be managed.
I hope, and think, it is the latter.
Thank you cura. Please read!
Look, this says it all. How much clearer can it be?
On September 25, 2008, the FDIC announced that JPMorgan acquired the banking operations of Washington Mutual at no cost to the FDIC’s insurance fund [xv]. In an SEC filing that evening, JPMorgan said it “acquired all deposits, assets and certain liabilities of Washington Mutual’s banking operations from the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), effective immediately. Excluded from the transaction are the senior unsecured debt, subordinated debt, and preferred stock of Washington Mutual’s banks. JPMorgan Chase will not be acquiring any assets or liabilities of the banks’ parent holding company (WM) or the holding company’s non-bank subsidiaries. As part of this transaction, JPMorgan Chase will make a payment of approximately $1.9 billion to the FDIC”
Two relevant elephants.
What has A&M been managing all these years?
Why were there so many lawyers in court for bop's UW hearing?
Oh right. I forgot. There's nothing there.
Ha!
So why are escrows still active in our accounts?
Anyone ever wonder that? If they are worth zero, then why doesn't the court and FDIC announce that so brokers can know to remove them from accounts?
Like other historical stock transactions and bk stocks, they drop off accounts when no longer valid. Now you could say, They will vanish when the bk closes, which is possible. But if their value is truly zero now, why wait?
The reason IMO is, they will have value. We may know more very soon. Mr. Tepper, Bonderman, Savitz, et al are patiently waiting along with us.
My waiting period for news ends on Aug 1. After Aug 1, AG Barr's staff will start doing some digging. And don't think they won't. Billions infused into the economy is a BFD. Dimon's buddy Epstein found out the hard way that there's a new sheriff in town.
Many are so busy kissing Alice's feet that they can't even see that she squandered an amazing opportunity to get Walrath on the record about assets.
Instead, her baby talk dialogue skirted the most important issue of all. The actual issue of assets.
Her motion would have been brilliant had she done so! I was shocked that she didn't bring it up. I'm sure Rosen and Walrath were too. Maybe that's the real reason there was a bevy of attorneys present. They too maybe wondered if Alice would try to pry open Pandoras box in court.
She did not. Glad I didn't invest in her futile effort.
Yep. A very poorly thought out missed opportunity.
Alice should have asked about safe harbor and assets, not a stupid 1%.
Much bigger fish to fry rather than waste effort on the UW 1% nonsense.
I would love to have seen her put Walrath on the spot with something substantive while she had her ear, like assets or the $30b Dimon found and why that wasn't returned to the owners of the estate.
She couldve asked her most anything....Alice blew a great opportunity to put matters on the record.
We shall see if we need to get AG Bill Barr's staff to start to look into this escrow fair and reasonable fraud very soon.
Aug 1st is my date to Fedex my summary to Mr. Barr if we don't hear something positive by then.
I'm sure he and Trump will want to know why shareholders here have been fleeced of billions.
Rosen and Dimon might want to start seeing how they look in orange.
Aug 1. Enough is enough.
Oh no, it's contagious!
Guys, let's keep it real here. There have been at least 583 bank announcements of money posted but not one cent has been for our escrows.
Now I am as positive as anyone about escrow money coming, but these nonstop bank topics here make all us escrowers look like tards. Now if something states it is targeted for ex WAMU shareholders fine, but until then please stop with these stupid posts.
Having said my piece on this, I do feel like we could be close to something. Lets see what happens tomorrow or next week. Aug 1 is the next date if nothing before.
As for the posts about class action. ENOUGH! It is ludicrous! That would drag this out for several more years and all the money would go to the law firms. So please stop being ridiculous bringing that up here.
A couple things to ponder while we wait.
The hedge funds are our gents in waiting. They know much more and are being very patient because they do know. Ask yourselves, why have they been so patient? Why have they not brought suits? 800,000 Ps and you think they are saying, Oh screw it, we aren't getting a penny for those escrows.
Also, if there was indeed nothing behind the curtain, then why was there a slew of lawyers at Bop's "meaningless" hearing? If the UW expected this case was dead and there would be no money forthcoming, then why send lawyers? Why? Can someone answer that?
And finally, why didn't Walrath say to Bop, Look, I hate to tell you this, but you ain't gettin squat. There's nothing left!
I know why. There is a handful here that know why.
Patience is a vulture.
Actually Alice is holding this up.
I guess you missed that FDIC statement saying there would be no discussions about this case while there was an ongoing court action.
So, yes.
Our trustee DB under investigation.
Sickening. As if we didnt have enough adversity. Corruption everywhere.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/financials/deutsche-bank-under-investigation-for-potentially-violating-anti-money-laundering-laws-report
Rosen and the FDIC were correct in their statements that they had nothing now in their coffers for escrows.
But, the money we surmise that is stashed away is not in either venue. It is indeed scattered in MBS, ABS, safe harbor, property, minerals, and under seal, etc.
I think many such as AZ, Ron, and DMDMD have clearly pointed out those venues repeatedly.
This is not an easy saga. BKs never are.
Hotmeat, plisskin, withcatz, and others feel 100% that escrows will get no recovery. They may be right, but I doubt it.
The hedge funds have been eerily quiet throughout, despite potentially having billions to gain. Why? Well, they obviously could duke it out in court. They have the funds to do battle. But they do not. Why? And why didn't the big boys go to court immediately when Dimon came out mockingly and arrogantly saying that JPM had just "found" an extra bonus of $30B lying around from WAMU?
And if there was no chance of recovery, why wouldn't the judge come right out and say, "Look folks, there will be no fair and reasonable. There is nothing left for escrow holders who released." Wouldn't that put a nail in this mess?
As for Alice, I think it was very telling that Walrath said "So if 1 or 10 billion come back to escrows, you feel that 100% should come back to escrow holders, not 99%?" Alice said, Yes your honor. Now if there was nothing, why didn't Walrath just say so right then and there!
Look, fact is no one knows with 100% certainty what is going to happen. But when you look at the big picture, it appears there will be recovery in my estimation.
Our answers could come sooner than we think.
Ron, the $1.9B they paid was an administrative downpayment.
If people were well versed in the docs, which most are not, then they would know this.
If JPMs payment was for everything it would have been a 5th amendment unfair taking and Walrath would never have allowed it.
JPM has done 2 capital raises of $173B, the magic number, plus the $1.5T in Europe. Hmmmm, where did all that money get stashed?
Look folks, there are a lot of deniers here, and we are all entitled to our opinions. I myself, am a realist. I consider all aspects of this saga and make my own analysis based on facts, not conjecture.
I am in the pro escrow camp because of those facts.
Also, to LP, I am only permitted one post per day. I have no further knowledge of where the FDIC is at currently, other than rumblings. As my friend who knows them well has said, it is a corrupt group. They are not looking out for our best interests. With our government in such disarray for the last 11 years, they can get away with a lot.
Best of luck all. Let's hope we hear some good news this summer. This saga has been torturous for us all.
If we don't see escrow payments begin in the coming few weeks, I will be sending a formal letter of protest to AG Barr to give him a summary of this fiasco and demand the DOJ look into this matter in detail.
I encourage others to do the same, but please keep it professional and intelligent. Only knowledgeable shareholders should be involved in this effort. We would be representing all shareholders in this effort, so please, no doofuses or adversarial, nasty letters. We just want AG Barr to be aware of what has happened so he can appoint staff to look into this.
Enough pussyfooting. We need to take serious action to get to the bottom of all this. Barr is just the man who can do it.
I am setting a personal deadline of August 1. If we do not get escrow payment activity by then, this information campaign will commence.
Regarding the FDIC.
My financial source has had dealings with the FDIC. He says they are the most corrupt financial group he has ever dealt with. Add to that the likes of Dimon Rosen and Walrath, and that's what we are up against. As I have said before, we escrowers have no one to compel them to pay us and those who hold the cash know that.
IMO the hedge funds have the clout. Let's hope they are our white knight.
I know the docs show the cash is there. But without police you have lawlessness. We have no police looking out for us.
My list of the dirty dozen.
In my opinion, these are the 12 main corrupt players and the reason escrows have not been paid, yet.
Dimon
Rosen
Walrath
Susman
FDIC and FED - very corrupt groups
Davis
Willingham
Bair
Holder
Obama
Paulson
Collyer
Trump and Minuchin have done nothing to help because they have their hands full and we are too far down the list. Barr too has his hands full, but his people could step in and go after this if only they knew about it. Barr likely does not.
So, where does that leave escrows? Look, this list of corrupt players is formidable but that's who we've been up against for almost 11 years. As I see it our only hope is the group of hedge funds that are our only allies.
8500 retail escrow holders and around 200 hedgies. They stand to gain much more than us. Let's hope they can make something happen. If they have written this off we are doomed.