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Stock, actually that $70.00 figure is low and this is how to figure the 'unjust enrichment' that I have vauled at 65 billion (low figure) dollars.
Banks loan out money at least on a twenty multiple, so take 29 billion X 20 equal 580 billion and figure a profit of 5 percent per year. Now you have 29 billion profit for one year and it is almost two years now, so another 29 billion equal 58 billion for two years.
Now take the the 4 billion they have stolen and do the same thing for two years and you get the 4 billion (4x20=80x5%=4 billion per year) so you have a total of another total of 12 billion.
Now add the 58 billion with 12 billion equal another total of 70 billion.
Now you have 70 billion and just add the 6 billion in taxes plus another 12 billion in clawbacks equal a grand total 88 billion dollars before you even value the property, intellectual rights, brand value, name recognition, somthing small called damages and much, much more!
So now I believe you get the idea of how even $70.00 a share is a steal. You have to ask yourself one question, "does one think JPM wanted to steal an insolvent bank?
It is not going to 70 cents...maybe $70.00 per share
Uzual, I hope I am wrong but this will probably be nothing more than a "dog and pony show" for the taxpayers, so they will actually think Congress is doing something.
I remember when former BOA CEO, Ken Lewis was to speak before congress recently and all he did was basically tell them what they wanted to hear as he changed his story and never did tell the truth. There is no doubt in my mind they threatened him.
The New Deal and Why!!!
? Exclusivity ends around May 29.
? It will take 3-4 weeks to get “The New Deal” approved.
? If “The New Deal” is not approved the BOD will lose their positions.
? The true value WILL come to pass.
? The BOD could face indictments, criminal, failure of fiduciary responsibility & much more.
? Rosen keeps riding the POTENTIAL losing horse because he knows the end.
? Rosen’s late filing of objections and other.
? If people are feel like they will get nothing they may actually approve a ten dollar settlement.
? Keeping people demoralized the criminals when by dividing conquering.
? Losing exclusivity means they COULD lose the entire company and we know they want to reorganize.
? Losing the company and letting new people approve a reorganization plan, value increases ten fold.
? All one has to do is look at what the criminals have to lose and waiting, demoralizing brings peoples expectations way, way down and thus prevent the truth from coming out.
? Expect an $8.00 to $12.00 settlement offer very soon and by waiting till the very last moment, unfortunately most people would probably agree to a ridiculous low offer & let the criminals win
? My opinions TURN IT DOWN & let the SUNSHINE In and get six times that within 2- 6 months.
? Expect some offer very soon which includes equity because Rosen knows it will never be approved, otherwise.
The hearing tomorrow is very important, as I believe some things will have to be accomplished or even more important which way is this case going to go. Will this case take weeks to a couple of months or two years going on five years?
I believe we are at a fork in the road as Weil planned to sell equity out from day one and Rosen has been riding the fence and was ready to make a grand announcement around the December 2008 Holidays, however equity would have been canceled and the case would now be over. Thank God for the US Trustee and however that developed is a blessing which is proving that this case has not gone in favor of Weil/JPM or the FDIC.
Now Rosen is truly at a fork in the road; is he going to switch horses in favor of equity or continue to beat the dead horse favoring liabilities larger than assets? I think Rosen called Venable on Monday after his infamous Friday filing of his sham POR and pleaded with Venable not to file sanctions and he was ready to work with Venable and will turn over all documents along with working toward a speedy conclusion. This could explain actions of a recent EC member and would be a business decision not to file sanctions but rather work toward a speedy conclusion.
I just do not think Rosen will be on the losing horse as it crosses the finish line and this is why I believe Venable reached a business decision to work with Weil. I just hope that Venable demanded to be the lead counsel if this discussion took place. If we get which direction Rosen is going to take tomorrow then the securities could explode assuming Rosen will take equities side and I believe he will.
Rapid Conclusion or Years=Business with the “DEVIL” a Must 3-Last fall Jamie discussed his departure from JPM involving a host of rumors about his future endeavors. Jamie more recently discussed ideas about his “sudden departure” getting his leaders ready for ‘sudden’ transition. Now we have our EC on board and hopefully getting ready to file some very damning documents.
I started thinking, after Rosen verbalizing his infamous rant about destroying equity and the sham of a POR, what would he do next? After all, working on both sides and being paid by the Estate poses its challenges like what next? Rosen has to know that Venable will file sanctions, try to oust the BOD, hire new lawyers, find a new set of BOD’s and then you can imagine losing ‘exclusivity’ (could be a good thing) but you get the idea…delay after delay and year after year.
Now here are my thoughts about getting this over with and back to Rosen’s thoughts about what to do, what to do. After filing that sham of a POR, Rosen called Venable that Monday morning and started pleading with them about NOT filing sanctions and letting them know how valuable Weil could be at this time. Weil would be discussing how we have all of the evidence at this time and we will (promise-promise) work with equity, including common shares to get a great price. Rosen had to tell JPM his sham would not work and he will truly have to work with the EC and there is not much time left.
Even though I want to see this bastard-Rosen in jail, this is a business decision and Rosen probably does not really care as long as he is on the winning horse as it crosses the finish line. Now this could truly be over in a matter of days to several weeks as all Rosen has to do is subpoena Jamie and Charlie as they could not answer the first question that would be asked without perjuring themselves. We are not going to change the system over night, so I prefer the business decision of not going after Weil if they are out to settle this ASAP and I have to believe JPM already knew this and this would explain recent decisions JPM has made.
Rapid Conclusion or Years=Business with the “DEVIL” a Must.
Last fall Jamie discussed his departure from JPM involving a host of rumors about his future endeavors. Jamie more recently discussed ideas about his “sudden departure” getting his leaders ready for ‘sudden’ transition. Now we have our EC on board and hopefully getting ready to file some very damning documents.
I started thinking, after Rosen verbalizing his infamous rant about destroying equity and the sham of a POR, what would he do next? After all, working on both sides and being paid by the Estate poses its challenges like what next? Rosen has to know that Venable will file sanctions, try to oust the BOD, hire new lawyers, find a new set of BOD’s and then you can imagine losing ‘exclusivity’ (could be a good thing) but you get the idea…delay after delay and year after year.
Now here are my thoughts about getting this over with and back to Rosen’s thoughts about what to do, what to do. After filing that sham of a POR, Rosen called Venable that Monday morning and started pleading with them about NOT filing sanctions and letting them know how valuable Weil could be at this time. Weil would be discussing how we have all of the evidence at this time and we will (promise-promise) work with equity, including common shares to get a great price. Rosen had to tell JPM his sham would not work and he will truly have to work with the EC and there is not much time left.
Even though I want to see this bastard-Rosen in jail, this is a business decision and Rosen probably does not really care as long as he is on the winning horse as it crosses the finish line. Now this could truly be over in a matter of days to several weeks as all Rosen has to do is subpoena Jamie and Charlie as they could not answer the first question that would be asked without perjuring themselves. We are not going to change the system over night, so I prefer the business decision of not going after Weil if they are out to settle this ASAP and I have to believe JPM already knew this and this would explain recent decisions JPM has made.
Dudebag, does this hedge fund you are talking about own common stock in WMI or just preferreds?
Lawrence147, excellent as always and I truly look forward to your posts. I did not say it earlier, but my response to you was very conservative as obviously our DD is dealing with nothing except facts, and that I respect you for. These people who low ball are doing it for pay or other nefarious reasons, because if you look at the facts...THEY DO NOT LIE...have a great evening and Holiday!!!
lawrence147, if you believe JPM/FDIC have to cough up more than 100 billion , to which I agree, then your per share price will be in the 55.00-75.00 a share range. I have been trying to tell this to people constantly but they think I am crazy.
Unfortunately people can get their eyes off of the stupid share price and if they would look at the facts like 65 billion in unjust enrichment, mineral rights, over 100 subsidaries, property, 29 billion in cash and a host of much more, then they could figure what the share price SHOULD BE.
Kelsey, you would be absolutely correct under any normal circumstances, but the problem is JPM IS ABOVE THE LAW and if you do not believe me, just ask them!!!!lol
Does anybody know the staus of the one last HUGE claim...The MARTA claim?
mypenneys, Kirsten Grind from the Peugont Sound Business Journal and through her confidential sources reported this some time ago, along with court filings we have seen through discovery process.
Diamond, as far as I know when WMI was trading under it's old symbol (WM) it would have included the whole enchilada; but we all know what JPM was doing through their illegal short/naked selling of WM shares. I think WMI, had it not been stolen would be trading at or near JPM today, especially if people would have known how much cash this comapny had.
Information on what banks own is extremely guarded as you can tell here; hell the Judge does not have a clue as we speak of what assets were actually transferred to JPM and I find that very puzzeling on the Judge's part and also very troubling after 18 months.
How can the Judge make decisions correctly when she does not know and why did she not DEMAND a list with in the first 15 months...VERY TROUBLING!!!
Diamond, this is what I wrote Bear and I think you are extremely low on your two times figure. I could go into detail but let's start with a minimum of 60 billion dollars of unjust enrichment and then I think you will agree with my per share worth..or what it SHOULD BE WORTH!!!
Beardown, you first need to start with 29 billion WMfsb had and the other 4 billion with the holding company WMI. SO START with 33 billion in cash plus the unjust enrichment off of this for 18 months and you will quickly see how this is woth $50.00-$75.00 per common share!!!
Beardown, you first need to start with 29 billion WMfsb had and the other 4 billion with the holding company WMI. SO START with 33 billion in cash plus the unjust enrichment off of this for 18 months and you will quickly see how this is woth $50.00-$75.00 per common share!!!
Wicked, absolutely it is/was part of the claim when Weil was actually working for the Debtors. This claim would be called unjust enrichment and to date, I believe that figure alone is worth way north of 60 billion dollars.
This is how you figure it as WMI had a total of 34 billion dollars on hand with 29 billion at Wfsb and 4 billion at the holding company, WMI.
A bank loans money out at least a 20 multiple and lets say JPM stole WMI's 33 billion dollars and loaned at a twenty multiple would be 660 billon at 5 percent interest rate would be an unjust enrichment of 33 billion in one year and of course this would NOT include what the company is worth...just unjust enrichment.
So when you start valuing WMI you have to start a 60 billion and if the company is worth another 40 billion dollars you now have 100 billion and this would be figured a a mutiple of two, so the actual figure negotiations SHOULD start at is 200 billion and if they want to gamble on a jury fine; the jury can award three times this base on criminal conduct.
Wamu, all it is going to take is one GOOD filing (any day) from Venable and this stock is going to be in MULTI DOLLAR land!!!
Rosen probably recieved a ten million dollar Swiss Account from the adversaries.
I too, want to share your excitement on what could and should happen here, but I am troubled by the level of corruption that got us here.
Now we have a legal team of WEASEl, GOTCHA and MANGES practicing collusion, bankruptcy fraud and much more; right out in the wide open and under a federal bankruptcy Judge's nose.
Now if the law is going to work, how and why (I know pay off of some form) would the corrupt lawyers even try something like this? They must be being protected by some entity or something because I would think after going to law school, they would be afraid of losing their license; or am I just too naive?
DM57, great but actions speak very loudly and I doubt that she will tell you the truth but it will be interesting on what kind of BS she feeds you. I hope she says she is getting ready to release a DOOZY of a report tomorrow, but due to actions here, I doubt it.
DM57, I am afraid Kirsten has been silenced, because right after she received that award in January, we have not heard a word from her. Keep in mind they also corrupted our own legal team of Weil, Gotschal and Manges.
With all that has happened she certainly would have written about something if she was not silenced... hope I am wrong!
Fsshon, thank you for all your doing. It is very much appreciated. Why is it so important for Rosen to show L>A when he knows the plan does not have a snowballs hell in chance of approval. There has to be more to this than delays, as the end has to be within a couple of months at the most.
Even if the Judge approves SJ befor the 26th, this has always been on the MOR anyway and this in of itself will not show A>L, so what is the point?
Do you feel Venable will show a outline to counter Rosen's plan, assuming Rosen still plans on zeroing out equity before the 26th?
I feel Venable has to be prepared with something positive to counter Rosen's negative POR or WAMUQ will fall to 3 pennies or less. What are your thoughts, please?
Fsshon, thank you for all your doing. It is very much appreciated. Why is it so important for Rosen to show L>A when he knows the plan does not have a snowballs hell in chance of approval. There has to be more to this than delays, as the end has to be within a couple of months at the most.
Even if the Judge approves SJ befor the 26th, this has always been on the MOR anyway and this in of itself will not show A>L, so what is the point?
Do you feel Venable will show a outline to counter Rosen's plan, assuming Rosen still plans on zeroing out equity before the 26th?
I feel Rosen has to be prepared with something positive to counter Rosen's negative POR or WAMUQ will fall to 3 pennies or less. What are your thoughts, please?
Night, I suggest you do your DD and then you can have an educated discussion about the last eighteen months of WMI and not worry about dribble, as you may get tangled up in your frustration.
Cheers
Fsshn, just brilliant, ABSOLUTELY brilliant post and thank you very much for your DD!!!
I am happy you are doing what you can but I think she has been silenced since she received that award. Actions speak LOUDLY and she has not reported on anymore of this travesty in quite awhile. There must be a reason, as obviously Weil and Company are in bed colluding with JPM.
Rob, what article are you referring to?
The 61st day is the first day after the extension/Debtors exclusivity date ends; that anybody can file a reorganization plan with the court.
That is to low with what we know now! JPM could buy us with WMI's own money if they are allowed to profit with our money and no penalty for getting caught. This is now $75.00 a common share! Wake up and figure out what they stole, the money they have made off out money in 18 months and much, much more.
fsshon, always love your DD and legal thoughts and facts. Most of these people are just wasting your time but at least you are giving people who want the facts...the FACTS. Keep up the great work as it is "ALMOST OUR TIME"!!!
Large Green loves LARGE stock price!!!
Why do you think JPM STOLE the bank, because their bank had the MONEY!!!
Fsshon, I have said here and on Y for the last 12-15 months that the Judge will never rule on the 4 billion and so far I have been right.
JPM/FDIC have made such a big deal out of the money when there was really no issue to begin with; that by the Judge making a ruling for WMI could make JPM stock plunge ten to 20 dollars. Money Managers will see they lied about the 4 billion and will sell their stock in heart beat, assuming they lied about the rest. They will not continue to take a chance with JPM stock.
So now we are at a crossroads, the last weekend before the 4th of March and I would think JPM/FDIC would want to announce this mess on a Thursday night (imagine a little Carma) so they can get the news out on a Friday, only to never hear of it again (or very little) so when Monday morning comes this is old news/buried.
Our fine UST saved equity from tragedy, as I have no doubts Rosen was planning on announcing this mess over XMAS-2009 or New Years-2009, without equity and to the beauty of that beholder his plan was DESTROYED.
Slyone, I will challenge you to prove JPM paid anything for WMI. I will wager you can find any proof to prove JPM actually paid what was said they paid. With all of this collusion, JPM did not pay one red cent for this travesty....YET.
fsshon, this is your quote.
NITE is shorting, maybe they are going to buy all the shares from the employees "off market." JPM we already have a buyer for the shares, just sign here....A created mess by JPM that could allow NITE to cover his shorts quietly!
I highly doubt WMI employees who have shares in their 401K is enough to put a pimple on the elephant's ass, so to speak.
If there is any truth to being 700 to over 1 billion EXTRA/SHORT shares over the recorded total of 1.7 billion, then their shares will do nothing for JPM's short position. Just my thoughts.
Here are some more thoughts. I have said for the last 15 months or so THE GOOD Judge will never rule on the 4 billion, due to the devastation it will have on JPM. People who control large amounts of JPM shares would then dump JPM shares thinking "if JPM lied about the 4 billion...what else are they lying about"?
Obviously, if they do not settle she will have to rule at some point and I think March 4th is the date after listening to the last hearing. I do believe it is possible this thing could be settled this Thurs/Fri as the timing of the settlement is very important to FDIC/JPM. Announce on Thurs/Fri and then on following Monday this is old news not to be reported on again or at least very little reporting.
Diamond, I have said for the last 15 months that the Judge will never rule on the 4 billion and so far I have been right. Now that leads me to a potential conclusion, that the Judge has basically told the FDIC/JPM that the money is WMI's and she is going to rule March 4th.
I do not think the Judge will change her mind AGAIN (loses credibility) unless there are major changes. I have also said the timing of the settlement announcement and when it is, is just as important to the CRIMINALS as the price of shares is to us. After the Judge signed the confidentiality aggreements, I agree this is HUGE!!!
All of this leads me to a conclusion theat a settlement COULD be announced this Thursday/Friday time frame to allow for the market to have issue to it before they take it off of the news on the following Monday morning, not to be heard (very little anyway) from again.
Weil is practicing nothing other than what is commonly called Bankruptcy Faud, by doing eveything in it' power to hide WMI assets!!!
VERY DESTRUCTIVE AGAINST JPM
http://www.thestreet.com/stock-market-ne...
Hers is a 13G from TOSCA
Form SC 13G/A WASHINGTON MUTUAL, INC Filed by: Toscafund Asset Management LLPBY 10K Wizard
— 4:59 PM ET 02/10/2010
http://xml.10kwizard.com/filing_raw.php?repo=tenk&ipage=6748623
Filed on: February 10, 2010
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