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fsshn, just more and more opportunity to fill our boats. At some point I believe Dimond Guru will be correct and this will close out on a weekend or Holiday and will be revalued on the next opening.
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Yes, it is possible that Rosen/JPM is negotiating with TPS, but I think TPS is working with Susman and the negotiations with Rosen/JPM is a diversion to get into the New Year where equity can take over and I believe they prefer this rather than make a deal with a snake oil salesperson.
jhd51, I think the talk about not appealing the POR referred to Rosen, as he has been given everything by the court for the last two years, so he would have nothing to appeal. On the other hand, if she approves the POR, some people are worried that she will disband the EC. Do not forget there will many people who will appeal if she approves, mainly TPS who will stop at NOTHING to see vindication and rightfully so. This appeal would STAY any proceeding to proceed and cancel equity which is the criminals worst nightmare if it does not happen. If equity soars, this would make the VW shortsqueeze several years ago look like child's play and is what ALL of the criminals are afraid of.
My bad and I stand corrected.
With an early close on the stock market (1:00pm) on 12/23, the market closed on 12/24, 12/25, 12/26 and the market closed on 12/31, do you expect any of the following?
A. Nothing
B. Settlement
C. POR Slammed
D. POR approved
E. POR approved with contingencies
F. Other
Brian's cell phone-A much deeper meaning!
There has been many discussions and topics discussed over the last twenty seven months. We have heard the infamous ruling that was to be made ASAP, the statement where this has been investigated to death and several orders to Rosen about various topics to follow through on and of course he did not. In most cases this would be considered contempt of court. Many people believe the Judge has allowed Rosen to get away with so much due to Delaware’s leniency toward corporations who are incorporated there and who end up having to file bankruptcy. There are many other people who believe the Judge has let Rosen get away with all that she has to speed this case up and make it as appeal proof as possible and I believe both are very true.
I have learned to judge people on not what they say but by their actions and this case is a good example of that when I think of the Judge. I have noticed the last couple of hearings the Judge’s actions have been more abrupt toward Rosen and I view this as extremely positive towards turning down this POR and this brings me to my point. Many people laughed at Rosen when the Judge ordered his cell phone taken away and while I thought it was funny as well, I believe there was much more inferior motive with this action from the Judge. This action showed who is in charge of the court, respect will be adhered to and more important I believe this action shows how upset the Judge is with Rosen’s orchestrated corrupt behavior he has exercised in her court and from what the Judge learned during the Confirmation Hearings. To me this cell phone action/order is the beginning of what is about to happen in a VERY negative way for Rosen continuing with turning down his POR VERY soon.
In the past I have been very hard on the Judge because what I viewed from her actions was extremely negative for equity but I must admit not knowing the Judges true motive. If her motive was to get to the Confirmation Hearings in an expedited way, then kudos to the Judge but her actions troubled me. Recently my view has changed VERY favorable to the Judge as her actions has shown she is NOT putting up with this continued orchestrated embarrassment of her court. I will go out on a limb and say due to the Judges actions since the Confirmation Hearings, she will reject the POR VERY soon and possibly before the XMAS Holiday. All IMHO.
Good point...IMHO
es1, good discussion and question. I believe Susman may not have the exact and correct assets, but what he has is very close. Knowing everything he has shown to date, there is no way legally the POR SHOULD be approved, so he is holding his most important fire power just in case the Judge is compromised and actually approves this POR.
From looking at the latest A & B billing statements, I fully believe Susman has a POR ready to be filed as soon as the current one is slammed and this way he can get the rest of the information to CORRECTLY complete his POR. In the event the Judge approves this, Susman will then SHOW his hand and then ALL HELL will break loose and this will make "Watergate" look like a pimple on an elephant's ass!
Nightday, this is a very good question but I WILL say with TOTAL confidence that Nelson would have NEVER stated this if Susman did NOT have a plan so IMHO, NOT TO WORRY!
The Susman Masterpiece!
Reading many poster opinions, looking at their due diligence, handicapping based on the lawyers and understanding this case in general, it may appear Susman has not done enough. I believe the moves Susman has made are not only brilliant but his timing is impeccable. He has received criticism for not being more aggressive and not using the press unlike Rosen.
When you have the evidence and the best hand poker has, one does not have to resort to illegal posturing such Rosen has when he has used Kevin Starke on several occasions and Rosen’s timely words in court “but your Honor-there is no money for equity” to depress equity prices.
Susman has multiple sound legal reasons why the POR SHOULD be slammed and if he does not prevail he has a plan as Nelson eluded to in court when Nelson said to the Judge, if the POR is confirmed-please do not cancel the EC as it WILL be appealed. This went under the radar because none of us want to think that will happen, but it shows the Susman team has a plan in case the case becomes compromised. Keep in mind what Susman did when he was turned down when his filing for the first Examiner met every aspect of the law. Again, he had a plan and immediately filed his appeal and cornered the Judge with his brilliant filing.
So once again Susman will have a plan and thank our lucky stars he is holding the best in the unfortunate event this POR gets approved. He has showed multiple reasons for this POR to be turned down and if it is not, showing everything would have been a fatal mistake for equity as it would have been buried in the media. Now the Judge knows or should know Susman has some extremely damaging material he WILL present in the event this POR is NOT slammed and of course he has the Judge cornered once again into making/forcing the CORRECT legal decision. Everyone should thank Rosen as Rosen is the reason we ultimately ended up with the best possible legal team for the EC. Rosen won and lost his own case and this statement is VERY remarkable in its own right.
Yes, I am really surpised someone has not offered fifty cents or whatever a share, just for the NOL's and cash. I find it hard to believe this has not happened, unless the entities are waiting for a more precise time. If the Judge rules to approve, I think it becomes an even LARGER up hill battle for justice.
ATTN fsshn or any other knowledgeable poster, if the Judge rules on #39 (Friday) which is the WaMu Bank share abandonment and she rules for it to be cancelled out, is that not OBVIOUS to how she will rule on the POR or am I reading to much into this decision?
It would seem to me the Judge would want to take this into the New Year to increase the Estate value as opposed to ruling for Rosen which would follow Rosen's timeline to exit chapter 11 on 12/24, thus destroying equity.
Withcatz, you are correct, that is EXACTLY what this filing is and a GREAT review of the information that has been recently discussed.
Anybody and everybody who has an interest in WaMu MUST take a look at this filing. This filing covers most major topics we have discussed recently with JURY TRIAL DEMANDED!
http://www.nwprogressive.org/vault/legal/MAR09WaMuLawsuit.pdf
Uzual,on point again and great thoughts. The Judges largest flush in her career will go down in history as the "RosenTurd Flush" and will be heard around the world.
IMHO-One (principle) reason This POR cannot be approved!
The one key reason the Judge can NOT approve this POR is due to our friends from Tricadia who exposed what Rosen was up to with the NOLs. When Tricadia filed their motion which was approved by the Judge, they exposed how much future value the Estate had if the Estate emerged from chapter 11 after January 01, 2011.
If the Judge were to follow Rosen’s timeline, which is the cancellation of WaMu Bank FSB stock (note this is not the common stock) on 12/15, in order for the Estate to emerge from chapter 11 on 12/24; then in effect the Judge would be cancelling almost six billion dollars of future equity for the Estate. This figure is base on multiplying 17 billion dollars worth of NOLs by 35-38 percent. No matter how you cut it, whether WMI stays in business for a short or long period of time, many other companies would be interested in this NOL value to offset future profits. Somebody like Wal-Mart would be a great example.
Now we know there are many reasons for this POR to be turned down and I would be hard pressed to find ANYTHING legal about this POR period. It is my opinion that even if the Judge wanted to approve this POR based on everything else, there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY she could approve this by cancelling out almost six billion dollars of future value to the Estate as the Judge holds a fiduciary responsibility to maximize the Estate’s value.
Uzual, now that is funny...terd as opposed to TURD!
Chiron, great post and ideas. After this is over many people are going to have WaMu tremors...LOL
Strike, I think by and large, you are spot on. When we get as close as we are to a major decison that can no longer be put off, it gets a little nerve racking. I knew there was billions in that bank when I purchased pre seizure by a couple of days and the chapter 11 only encouraged me to keep buying thoughout this ordeal, but my what a trip so far. I still feel positive about this, although it gets trying from time to time.
Strike, good morning and I hope all is well with you. I would love to go but it is not working out very well with my obligations lately. This should be a doozy as long as the Judge rules from the bench. What are your thoughts on my other post? Have a great day!
fsshn, what are your thoughts on the Judge unsealing the documents on 12/17? Does she rule from the bench, under advisement or other? Remember, Rosen has the filing in for the Judge to cancel WaMu Bank stock on 12/15 so he can exit chapter 11 on 12/24 and put is corrupt plan in place. He has it right in front of her to sign, provided she approves the POR. All of this timing is VERY troubling. I know by law she can not approve the POR, but then by law she was NOT suppose to turn down the first Examiner's request either. I am hoping the law means something to this Judge when she makes a decison on all of this corruption in deciding the POR.
The infamous Corporate Veil-Why not challenged?
I am wondering why we have not heard about the WaMu Bank Bondholders settlement that pierces the Corporate Veil? Now with everything that is so wrong with this POR, this money in of itself puts A>L which means the POR is dead twice. I say twice because taking this money away from the settlement destroys the POR and then A>L Equity should take ownership again. Does anybody know why this is not being hammered home? I would think a Bankruptcy Judge in Delaware would and should take this very serious since it is one ‘cornerstone’ to why one would incorporate in Delaware.
Catz, if you are still moderating on the Ghost board, could you have "spot1roth" restored as my wife follows and reads a lot but does not post? The user name has been deleted for clean up purposes. Tracie is now bummed (Ms. Cravitz ya know, LOL) and feels lost. Thank you and have a great day.
Rumble, thank you very much for your take on this as I find your take not only great and supportive but factual as well. After all of this corruption, it is hard for me to believe that justice will prevail even though I have a TREMENDOUS amount invested here for the right reasons.
Does ANYBODY know ic EC Chairman, Willingham was actually in court any of the last four court sessions?
fsshon, great post as always and I really appreciate (others do too) taking the time to write such an impressive post. I wish I felt as confident as you. I have always been troubled with the Judge's relationship with Rosen. A person in an egotistical position such as the Judge that allows someone like Rosen to totally abuse her for two years with abosolutely no recourse is totally astounding to me and not in a positive way.
The way the case has been out in front of everybody after a total coverup up for over two years almost makes me believe they already know the outcome and Rosen appeared to be to his cocky old self, which in the past when he acts like this always gets his ruling. I want so bad to be wrong for all of us but you know how it is when you get that feeling.
The other reason I am coming away with a bad feeling from yesterday's hearing is due to the Judge's actions in the last hour or two when she was nailing the releases and then Rosen modifying them, acting like once he does this the Judge will buy off on this mess. The Judge really zeroed in on these and asked Rosen many questions which tells me, why would she be concerned about modifying the release in the last hour unless she was seriously going to approve the travesty? I do not mean to be a 'downer' but I have to be realistic, due to the massive amount of corruption.
fsshon, I would like your honest thoughts on how the Judge will rule. We all know according to the law the case should not have a prayer on getting approved, but that may not mean much. I know you predicted with 100 percent precision that the Judge WOULD approve the D.S. and now I ask you what your thoughts are on the Judge now?
Uzual, I agree with you totally but I keep going back to this statement that I have made. The more I think about this case the more I find that is totally wrong with it, so how can ANY ethical Judge approve such a travesty to shareholders?
The Verdict?
After today, we all lknow that this POR should be turned down and people arrested, but will the law prevail is the 300 billion question?
A. POR NOT approved.
B. POR approved.
C. Other, such as a revised POR.
Timeline?
A. 24-48 hours.
B. two days to a week.
C. longer than two weeks
ANYBODY, ANYBODY, is Susman there in person?
This is on Good Morning America now about WikiLeaks.
No, Spot1roth has NOT sent as I have a work project and do not have time. I was hoping somebody would see and take the lead. I wish I would have worked on this much earlier as we are at ground zero with this judge and if common survives or not.
WIKILEAKS-A wordwide supression from JPM/US Government-Largest theft of a bank/corporation in wordwide history-Please cover.
Here is some information and links to get your attention for the worldwide crime of the century. A theft of one of the largest banks in the world and the media has a TOTAL WORLDWIDE suppression on ALL forms of communication and the media. There are many people/shareholders worldwide who would love nothing more than to see this in the media. I would like to call out a huge “thank you” to Ghost for the links and continued due diligence on this case.
http://www.squidoo.com/wamuq
http://www.ghostofwamu.com/documents/Examiner/4404/JPMCD_000001547.00001.pdf
http://www.ghostofwamu.com/documents/Examiner/4574/WMIPC_500002025.00001.PDF
http://www.ghostofwamu.com/documents/Examiner/4523/WMI_PC_701361032.00001.pdf
JHD, we not only have Susman who I think will submit a POR that will blow everything else out of the water, but TPS has to go first and a decision has to come on this before the Judge can stamp the POR. Do not count out competing POR's, after all there are billions here for the taking. All one has to do is bid twenty five cents per common share and watch the criminals go crazy. For a little over 400 hundred million, one COULD have billions...so tell me why this will NOT happen?
TPS-questions-decisions-thoughts.
There has been much discussion on TPS-Trust Preferred Securities and what it means. Did this event happen or not? I think this discussion of what happened is very easy to understand if one follows the events. On that fateful Thursday night in September of 2008 WaMu was seized and chapter 11 followed within forty eight hours triggering an event. By the time chapter 11 was filed, WaMu banks were long gone so the point of down streaming money just would not happen. It would be like down streaming money to a stranger and this just does NOT happen. No matter how you want to color this, the banks were LONG gone and I do not care if it was only a minute, the banks were gone. The decision on this is very easy to make if there is ANY “rule of law” involved, so now I have the following question (s) and hopefully this will entertain some honest and intelligent replies.
It seems the Judge could have been very smart in planning how December 01 will start when she mentioned TPS will lead off and the rest can follow their coat tails. If the decision on TPS is as easy as the events lead them for me to believe, then the Judge, IMHO, never makes a decision on the POR as in Rosen’s words, it evaporates. With the worst possible decision for WMI possible this tells me WMI would at least lose the liability, which puts A>L and then equity again owns WMI. The only way I can see is if TPS makes a decision behind a tree with the criminals and I think this has gone too far for that now or no decision is made at all. It seems to me a decision HAS to be made before a decision on the POR and how can WMI lose in this situation? It would seem this is a “win win” for WMI and this is the conundrum that the criminals have faced from day one, but finally have to address in one way or another.
Jmac, IMHO delaying into the next year would not matter because if there is that much potential, the NOLS can go to WMI and there is no need to start a new corporation other than to steal the rest of equity for these criminals. We have to show A>L first though and I think that is very easy. There is absolutely no reason to give away our cash, property and other holding other than promote mor theft for a handful of people who are ALREADY criminals.
gandal, very good response and I feel nothing will be shown as far as the assets go and nothing can really be discussed on 12/01-12/02. They have kept this corruption blacked out-worldwide for 25 months and nothing has seen the light of day so why would they start on 12/01? My guess something will make this go away before the juicy stuff starts coming out on 12/01 or it will all get delayed again.
Judge, TPS=Decision=POR Dead=A>L=Equity in Control?
I have been thinking, the Judge does not have to make a decision on the POR. Assuming TPS has not settled, once the Judge makes a decision on TPS, WMI either gains dollars or subtracts liability. So this changes the whole POR and has to (according to Rosen) VAPORIZE and should put equity in control.
After all, the Judge has wanted TPS to lead off for a reason and now it all makes sense. The Judge never has to get to a decision on the POR as it will “vaporize” on its own. No wonder the bashers have been hot and heavy lately and will continue.
uzual, I always like to go by one's actions and NOT by what they say and this inlcudedes ANYBODY. I find myself with more facts and I am usually correct when I follow this policy. An old man told me that many years ago and it took me a while but when I started putting it in to practice and totally discounting emotions, it really does work. So I have to agree that anything Rosen does NOT publisize is his demise.