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You are correct LG.
And I might add payment for the bank. Again, the $1.8B was an admin fee only. It did not pay for the bank. That balance is still due now, no matter how long Jamie boy thinks he can hold off making it. I'd love to see him dressed in orange, and he will be if JPM does not pay for it. Fact. People can deny this reality all they want. (Anyone think it odd that Dimon was Obama's best friend, and Obama suddenly found $1.8B cash to give to Iran? Things that make you go hmmmm.)
There are many avenues for money to come back to the estate.
Relax people. If you released you will get paid.
Oh and BTW. I'd be loading up on shares of COOP here, IMO. Going much much higher.
Remember the hedgies in this process.
While Walraths comments were disturbing as was to be expected, the hedgies wield very serious power. Don't discount them.
If they get screwed they will fight with all they've got. And they've got a lot. They will not roll over. The evidence is on our side and it is overwhelming.
We can't afford high powered lawyers and accountants, but they can and will.
This is far from over.
Have a Merry Christmas.
As I said she is a corrupt judge to have allowed all this to happen. IMO.
Now I will add, cruel, as well. She shows zero regard for the shareholders and what we have been through all these years.
What she should've said is that there likely will not be a distribution to markers from this LT, however I cannot comment on anything that could come from outside the LT.
Instead she said this:
Judge Mary Walrath: Well, I’m not going to order them to send a separate piece of paper to every single shareholder, given the unlikelihood that there’s going to be any further distribution to that class. I’m just not going to require that.
Yep. Cruel.
Merry Christmas Mary.
Thanks for the coal.
It's baffling that the hedgies have been silent.
That means either they know money is coming, or they are preparing legal action now that the bk is closed.
And don't give me that nonsense that they have thrown in the towel. These guys have a ton of evidence and will fight this relentlessly if there is no payment.
My gut says they know exactly what they have coming. These are not penny ante dumb people.
Savitz, Bonderman, and Tepper are the cream of the crop and we will ride their coattails if they take action.
I say we get paid and legal action won't be necessary.
Walrath is a corrupt judge IMO.
The way she kissed and hugged and acquiesced to Rosen through the years has been a pretty sickening thing to watch.
She seemingly has had zero regard for the shareholders who have been stomped on by the corruption of Dimon and Bair in this fiasco.
Then the icing on the cake was her gifting JPM the deposit of $4B that WMI made to WAMU right before seizure, money that did not belong to WAMU bank. That should have belonged to the shareholders!
Oh but there's much more. When Dimon bragged in the media about finding $30B more that was totally unexpected, she let him keep that too! Are you kidding me? And the hedge funds stood by silently? That didn't bother them? Why didn't they challenge that and go to court, pounding on the bench?
The case has been a farce from day one. But she will go down in history as one of the worse bk judges ever because of her wanton disregard for the shareholders who were robbed blind, that dark Thursday night.
Let's hope one of her minions here passes this note along to her. Maybe someone can email this to her. She'd likely laugh it off. Like she has laughed at us all along.
Merry Christmas judge. You sure ruined ours.
Let the lawsuits commence if this escrow issue isn't resolved quickly.
The hedgefunds are ready with evidence galore.
If Dimon and the FDIC think they can get away with this heist they are sorely mistaken.
Walrath and Collyer. Well, do you feel lucky?
"In re Washington Mutual, Inc., she published a widely cited decision analyzing third party releases in the bankruptcy context. If there exists a contested, unique, or otherwise complicated area of bankruptcy law, chances are that Judge Walrath has spoken on the issue, and chances are she got it right."
- Well, that remains to be seen now, doesn't it?!
Collyer is the judge who allowed the FISA applications to be rubber stamped and pushed through to spy on a presidential campaign without requesting proof of the validity of the dossier (paid for by the opponent's campaign).
And also, whatever happened to Claster, who was soooo concerned about the moms and pops?
Poof, he's Gandhi! Not a peep out of him ever since. Oh yeah, he was really concerned about us, wasn't he???
So ask yourself this folks: Do you feel lucky?
I still do. Despite......
Bonderman invested $7.5B, that's "B"!
Now, let me ask you this. If you had invested that kind of money into a scam deal like this wouldn't you be screaming bloody murder? I would!
Yet not a peep out of these guys. Not once. Sound strange? Did they just blow this off as an unfortunate investment? A write off?
Na, I don't buy it. I think those guys know full well what lies behind the curtain.
And as the judge said to coffee girl, "So if ten billion dollars comes back, you wouldn't want the underwriters to get even one percent?"
That statement was very telling to me. Why even say that? Yep, very telling.
Not sure about this getting zillions of dollars, but a payout must occur because there is just way too much evidence to go to court with once the bk closes. The lawsuits would rock the courts. And if Dimon or anyone else thinks they are invincible, well. They'd better think again.
We shall know soon.
That is erroneous information on hedgies escrow ownership! Geesh.
Willingham owns mainly commons, but Bonderman has 850,000 Ps and Tepper has 800,000 Ps.
Let's keep our facts straight.
Don't cry over spilled coffee.
Or unreleased escrows.
Ambulance chasers.
News on RLGY paying for client remodeling plan is huge!
PR coming. Watch for sp to climb to 15 range.
If escrows show options, tradable.
Not sure where you are seeing this. I don't see it.
If they show options now that means they would show a value and be tradable.
Either this is BS or potentially exciting news. I'd say it's the former.
But, I do believe we are close.
JPM has plenty of cash to pay for the bank.
Remember they did a capital raise in Europe for $1.4T and two here for $173B each.
The FDIC will require payment and it is no hardship on JPM.
They must pay or face RICO.
And dont be deluded into believing that the $1.88B was payment in full. Ridiculous babble.
Coffee girl isn't going to change the outcome here at the 11th hour.
She is but a flea on the butt of this bk process.
It's all about the benjamins for herself. Some don't see it that way. Your prerogative. Give her all of your money if you want.
Maybe she didn't release her 3000 Ps and regrets it. Doubt she will get her par she is hoping for.
The moral of the story is.....dont cry over spilled coffee. Or over non released preferreds.
Bottom line, she gets nada.
For the umpteenth time the 1.88B was merely an administrative fee/downpayment. If you buy a car you don't own it till the lien is satisfied. Period. JPM does not have title until the bank is paid for.
Not sure why this isn't sinking in but it was made clear.
I can only post once a day so there will be no replies.
Rest assured, the bank will be paid for. And the proceeds go to the estate.
Ask yourself this. Why were releasees given escrow markers. And why after 11 years are those still in our accounts.
Anyone have the Alice fund link?
Maybe if we all dug deep and could come up with a grand total of 3 million, she will go lay down.
Oh right, she is soooo concerned about us little guys. A wolf in sheep's clothing.
Gimme a break. What a farce.
Thanks AZ for wrapping this with a nice bow.
Don't know how much more succinct anyone could make this.
I'm looking forward to a green jiminy Christmas.
Happy Thanksgiving to AZ and true disciples here united to seek truth and justice.
We will prevail.
Escrows will get paid. Period.
No way will the courts, Dimon, and FDIC want the wrath of the hedge funds and 8500 retailers to make their lives a living hell with nonstop lawsuits for nonpayment. The evidence is overwhelmingly on our side.
Watch for breaking news. Yep. Soon.
Why even respond to this nonsense?
22 million shares? And you guys get excited? This sounds like something coffee girl would come up with. Send her some more money!
Come on. Stay focused and keep it real. We have a big month ahead of us.
"the UW's will receive nothing", eh, hotmeat?
You get funnier by the day, I swear. That's why the UWs sent a roomful of lawyers to bop's meaningless hearing, huh?
Come on, this is getting ridiculous now.
Investors never hope they lose for writeoffs.
Never. People who say they do have never been large investors.
The UW crew knew what they were doing. And it sure is hell wasn't so they could lose money.
Likewise they didn't pay a bevy of lawyers to attend bops hearing just because they wanted to give them some money and a paid lunch.
Walrath presided over the biggest financial fraud ever perpetrated on any company in history.
If escrows do not receive fair compensation, I say there will be extraordinary legal repercussions for years to come against her, JPM, FDIC, Dimon, Bair, Kosturos, Rosen, et. al. Count on it.
Escrow holders will not go away quietly with their tails between their legs.
We are down to the nitty gritty. Next month will tell the tale.
Could Judge Walrath be impeached/removed? Uhhh, yes.
Judges can be impeached, and it has happened. If escrows get screwed by some sort of sham settlement of F&R that does not happen, charges could be brought against her for helping to orchestrate the biggest financial heist of a financial company's shareholders in history.
Others like Bair and Dimon could be charged as well.
Let's hope that doesn't happen, and a fair settlement comes to escrow holders. But if a settlement doesn't happen, expect all hell to break loose from 8,500 disgruntled shareholders who will have felt robbed after almost 12 years of waiting for justice. Not to mention legal action from the hedgies.
Do you think the hedge funds don't care if they get paid?
Do you think the legion of UW lawyers at Alice's penny ante hearing don't care if the UWs get paid?
Do you think that 8500 retail investors don't care if they get paid?
And on and on...for a 12 year investment???
I swear, most of you thought there would be some grand payout announcement contained in the LTs bk closing doc.
Absurd. You knew that wouldn't happen so why the hysteria? Why this profound disappointment?
Let all this play out. We are close to knowing. And if somehow they were to try to get away with this, I can guarantee you this. All hell will break loose.
Hotmeat, do you have inside sources at JPM, FDIC, DTC, and LIBOR?
How can you state that there will be no compensation, based on a filing by the LT?
Look, you are entitled to your opinion, but to unequivocally state there WILL be no further compensation is ridiculously unwarranted. Let's see how this plays out in the coming weeks, and perhaps months.
My opinion is that the hedge funds lawyers are salivating right about now.
Don't forget the hedgies 70%.
Look, does anyone here really think that the hedgies aren't following all this even more closely than us?
And no they didn't steal the money under the table. 140+ hedge funds invested here, and they are all being quiet and patient because they know what is coming after the BK.
Merry Christmas
Exactly AZ. DTC, KCC, Computershare, and the court have accurate and complete escrow marker info on all releasees.
When the LT states that escrows will be canceled upon the bk closing, it just means within the LT; nothing will remain viable in the LT when it is dissolved.
Our markers are historical records and will be there forever now. People overreacted to that statement. I would've thought folks knew better.
"The Depository Trust Company (DTC) is one of the world's largest securities depositories. Founded in 1973 and based in New York City, the DTC is organized as a limited purpose trust company and provides safekeeping through electronic record-keeping of securities balances."
Domestic Terrorism: How the FDIC, JPM, and the U.S. Courts Stole WAMU Bank from Its Employees and Shareholders
This new book will be out in 2020. It will be a comprehensive, scathing, and provocative exposé covering the biggest financial heist in U.S. history.
Available on Amazon, this book will reveal exactly how the theft of the great financial institution, Washington Mutual Bank, occurred, with the encouragement of the U.S. government, court system, and the banking cabal that runs the country.
You will see how JPM was able to obtain a bank worth hundreds of billions of dollars, and walk away with the bounty scot-free.
More information on this book in 2020, sure to be a best seller.
So if you think there is nothing behind the curtain, let me ask you this.
Where did WMIH COOP get the funds to board $65B in assets? That's $65B with a B! Where did they get the funds to do acquisitions and wheel and deal and pay their execs big salaries and options?
COOP was broke. Before WMIH they had minimal funds available. Suddenly after the merger they have tons of money.
Do the math folks. I think you'll feel better about escrows' chances going forward.
Let's get the BKs closed!
Newflow, sp should be 20 or more.
Technicals show COOP is in the gap so a big runup is imminent.
Also remember that reverse split stocks usually tank. That may have been done by design to achieve the WMIH price at $1.00
It has purposefully been manipulated to remain at ~$1.00 for obvious reasons...
The bank still has NOT been paid for.
I wish people would stop saying that they got it all for $1.9B. That was an admin fee, a downpayment. The bank must still be paid for so stop being so ridiculous.
If that were to happen it would be a 5th amendment unfair taking. I think some think that if they say this enough people will start believing that the $1.9B was THE final payment. Wrong!
So as lodas says, we will know soon. Then this will all be put to bed and we can get on with our lives. If for some reason, the bank is not paid for all hell will break loose with the hedgies suing till the cows come home.
Let's see how this plays out. The bks close soon.
"Where, however, physical damage results to property because of government action, or where regulatory action limits activity on the property or otherwise deprives it of value (FDIC),whether there has been a taking in the Fifth Amendment sense becomes critical."
"We're 11 years down the road.."
So you think the court is so corrupt that they will just blow us off and say, Too bad about you!
And you think 144 hedge founds who own 70% of the escrows are just going to say, Oh too bad, we got screwed!
Look, dude, I understand your frustration. We all feel it. But to say such asinine things is going too far. Don't you think?
COOP shares will be involved in our recoveries.
Payment to escrows will come from various avenues over time. COOP shares, MBS and ABS, property, minerals, and a multitude of other assets. All must flow to the estate. Where else is there for it to go?
Let's see what happens with the bk closure. We are getting very close to major events kids.
Looks like a breakout coming.
12-14 range soon with Amazon onboard and strong earnings report coming on 11/17.
AIMO
Ps face is now over $3000.
People don't seem to understand that Ps are not worth $1000.
They have continued to perform going on over 11 years. Remember, Ps were valued at $1300 in 2008. So do the math.
Samurai, nice post but.....
I do not see this going back to 10s. While technicals are a very valuable indicator a stock like this is more news driven because we know what is coming, i.e. assets. :)
So, I see the chart taking this much higher from here, and when news hits about assets the blue skies are limitless. (Very similar to RLGY which will release earnings on 11/7. IMO that stock could easily hit 18-20 where it was last year due to the booming economy and real estate market. Same with COOP.) News driven, fundamentals.
I go back to the puzzling statement from Rich Delgado from COOP, who said that there would be no value or money coming to COOP from the WMIH entity. That was very strange. He said he spoke to "those in the know", but I say they either didn't "know" anything, he spoke to the wrong people, or they were being so extremely cautious about possible insider allegations that they said the opposite of what they knew was going to happen to cover their butts.
Time will tell. Or....COOP is the tell. As a wise man once said...
I recall this wonderful letter to Walrath.
The question is, does she give a damn about us, or is she just one of them...
I tend to think the later. I have seen how she has allowed Rosen, Kosturos, and Dimon to play her like a fiddle. As an aside I watch how corrupt our FBI, CIA, DOJ, and IRS are, and it's getting worse.
I have watched Collyer and Claster disappear from our mom and pop case like farts in the wind.
This was a theft, plain and simple. WAMU would not sell to Dimon for $8 a share. So he stole it, with the help of his buddies.
The good news is, I think this will all go way above Walrath's head once the BK closes. Then the big boys can come after them in court, with plenty of legitimate ammunition. In time, I do believe that Walrath and Dimon and others involved will have to deal with this on their conscience for eternity and it will torment their souls for what they did to the shareholders and employees and customers of this once fine institution.
I think we will be fine. Or all hell will break loose.
Paatalo's analysis is no doubt in the file folders of all the hedgies invested in this.
I expect that, if there is not fair restitution for escrows, the hedgies' lawyers will be hitting this case with sledgehammers. The evidence is overwhelming. Paatalo is right, as is AZ, Ron, and the many other true disciples.
Once this bk nonsense is closed we shall see what happens. If JPM and the Fed/FDIC do not make this right, it's going to hit the fan in a big way. Dimon better not take this case lightly or he will live to regret it.
Meat, you're kidding right? LOL
So you think an 850,000 P investment x 2 is nothing?
You think A&M making millions managing "whatever" is nothing?
You think that those court seals and redactions aren't significant?
You think the silence of the lambs hedge funds isn't suspect?
You know what meat, I get your game here. It's transparent to us all. But when you lose all logic and common sense like this, you lose any credibility that you might have had here.
Which wasn't much. If any.