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aandt I am largely in the same position. But I am also up 180% in the sister company.
thebear 37 "tmna is worth about $1.10 in terms of the value of the TIO shares. It’s not as simple as taking 75% of the tio share price." I see eye to eye with you. What is most interesting and hard to explain now is that the pps of TMNA has totally stagnated while the pps of TIO is roaring ahead.
My guess about the bottom line and what was achieved. My guess was 16o million dollars. What was achieved was: "Net income for the three months ended March 31, 2023, was $176.7 million" My guess was thus about 10% too low. I have seen no others who have ventured any numbers I think.
Very exciting information about SIRI RD. Oppofrtunities seem overwhelming.
RD Impressive presentation for the case for investing in whiskey.
RD Thanks for presenting intriguing information regarding the aviation industry!
I am puzzled in relation to the way TIO is trading today. During the first 30 minutes the trading was very brisk and the pps was straight up reacning almost 3.3 dollars. Now 6million shares have traded and the pps has given up the bulk of its gain. There is still a bit more than an hour to go and the pps may still move up again. But with so many shares traded I am surprised that the pps is less than 3 dollars now down almost 10% from the high. Are there any negative rumors about the numbers to be filed on Monday I wonder.
mz
"$MICT was a DEAD company........ literally dead. NO BUSINESS WHATSOEVER."
Is this true? The losses would hardly be so high last year if there was no business at all. I have been in contact with the investors relations of TIO related to what will ). I was informed about all the activities in China. I question the wisdom of expanding the activities related to agro Fintech to China. One reason is the Taiwan issue that may lead to war between the USA and China.
Manny My point was that it will presumably cost a good deal of money to purchase Sheffield United. I wonder why the pps of TIO pops so much this morning. Is it that the market has belatedly seen that the numbers for the first quarter will be out on Monday?
RD Thanks a lot! Progress seems to be fast and to include a lot of activities. I had misunderstood what those who are to work in California are to do.
jmr How many shares traded the preceding day? More than 50,000? But you are right that few shares usually are traded in this stock.One reason is the low float.
RD Thanks! What I don't understand is the need to lease a lot of space right away if there is so far little need to hire a lot of people because the business is so far of little volume.
Manny Is your interpretation that he will have to sell a lot of shares in TIO?
Invest Who is the clown here? I listened to the person you refer to as a clown a few weeks ago. He gave an impression of being very competent to me. His achievements over 22 years suggest that my impression is tenable.
Thanks Petrejus!
RD "We are not hiring 2,500 employees because there is no business to speak of." Are you here referring to the offices in California for 2,500 - 2,800 people or something else?To me there seems to be some self-contradiction here.
"There is a senerio where tmna distributes only a percentage of the shares and keeps some with on the company to capitalize future endeavores."
I don't see this as a necessarily bad scenario. So far TMNA has been way more successful than the company it has merged with.
thebear37 Thanks! I am aware of that concern. But right now the discount is more than 50%. The most extreme alternative is that the shareholders of TMNA will receive none of the shares of TIOha. But they (we) will own the shares indirecly. Almost all the real value has been created by TMNA. The person who has built TMNA along with his father seems to be nobody to fear. It seems unlikely that TMNA will be eclipsed for long.
The crack spreads for jet fuel based on future prices are hardly good. "Jet Fuel Cargoes CIF NWE (Platts) Crack Spread Futures - Quotes..." The quotes show crack spreads in coming months to be about 17 dollars per barrel. As far as I remember RD in the past estimated break-even for this company to be about 15 dollars.
tbirdman I agree that this is definitely good news.This is more or less what was "promised" several months ago,
Why were more than 60,000 shares traded today with the pps down a bit?
mz How do you explain the fact that the pps of TMNA seems to be largely independent of the pps of TIO even if they are 75% the same company? The pps of TIO is up from 1.2 dollars since I bought my stake just after Easter. A few days before I paid up to almost 40 cents for the shares I bought in TMNA. Recently the shares of TMNA have been trading at a discount of roughly 50% compared with the shares of TIO.
Over the last 15 years I have invested in Chinese microcaps that raised money and traded on the otc mostly in the USA. My experience from doing that is extremely negative. Almost all of them turned out to be swindles or went dark and the shares became worthless. One of them was on NASDAQ - CCME. You can still find a lot of information about that company if you check the ticker CCME. The powers that be in China are very interested in getting others to invest in China but reward them very poorly. A case in point is a company that is still traded on the otc - HERB. Almost all the assets had disappeared when the company started filing again after being dark for several years. It is still not clear if we the shareholders have been swindled to the tune of billions of dollas.
On the basis of the above I have just warned Tingo Inc against starting its Agro Fintech business in China informing the company about what I have mentioned above and more. But I guess there is little hope that any attention will be paid to my warning.
Bottom line
The bottom line of the Tingo Group (which includes this company) will be filed in eight days. A few weeks ago I read here that an analyst expects earnings på share of almost two dollars this year based on assumption of about 520 million shares outstanding. Based on that assumption and based on a bottom line of about 450 million dollars for Tingo Inc last year and assuming a fairly even growth rate I would expect a bottom line of about 160 million dollars for the first quarter. Of course the grown rate may turn out to be uneven. What do other posters expect when it comes to the bottom line?
downthehatch I see eye to eye with you. I switched 1,000 shares in TIO to 7,000 shares in TMNA. I prefer to stick to the information that has been published and ignore those who obfuscate.
Invest I think it is very good news that the nonsensensical take-over of Sheffield United now looks less likely. It is not clear to methough if he intended to pay for it with his own money or if the money of TMNA was supposted to be wasted on buying Sheffield United.
stocks Interest comment regarding the buys and sells of this stock. My impression is that about a month ago the relative pricing of TMNA and TIO well reflected the valuation of TIO. Now the relative value av TMNA has roughly speaking been cut in half in relation to the pps of TIO. Why?
As far as I know there are no market-makers for TIO shares in contradisticion to what is the case for TMNA shares. Moreover, I guess institutions buy a significant part of thje TIO shares that are traded. The other day I sold 1,000 shares in TIO and could buy 7,000 shares in TMNA for the money. That looked a very good deal to me.
Dawg Thanks for your information!
Dawg I forget if preferred are the shares we own. If they are I don't understand that there is next to no buying of the shares at the asked price if the conversion takes place this week. Even if the assumption is that the shares in TIO will not be distributed to the shareholders of TMNA I would have expected more interest in the shares of TMNA because of the news today.
This stock has started moving too. A few shares have been trading at 45 cents which is op nicely compared with the pps last week.
His pumping has been extremely well justified. TIO is going from strengt to strength. The pps is close to the opening up another 20 cents compared to the closing price on Friday. TMNA is not trading at a deep discount to the pps of TIO even though they are really the same company as far as I know.
Dawg The most interesting thing in the article in my view was that fair value of the shares was assessed to be almost 25 dollars per share. The merger og a loss-making company and a profit-making company led to some confusion in the presentation in my view. One gets the impression was on the verge of going from loss-making last year to being profitable this year. The reason for this misleading information was not explained. TMNA made profits of 450 millon dollars last year. It therefore misleading to convey the impression that the Tingo Group was losing money last year. This only goes for the US business which is very small compared with the business in Africa.
thebear37 I hope that I have understood the points after all. The merger will result in TIO owning about 25% of 520 million shares. TMNA will own the remaining 75%. But TMNA will not disapper and its shareholders getting 75% of the shares in TIO. TMNA may choose some or all of those shares as a company. At least up to now TMNA is a pink sheet stock and for this reason the real value of the assets will not be reflected in the stock price which is also the case for the time being. Institutions are very important when it comes to buying shares will significant market caps. Institutions don't buy pink sheet stocks normally. Therefore there are several disadvantages involved in owning TMNA shares if TMNA does not distribute the TIO shares it receives to the shareholders of TMNA.
But on the other hand I guess those who own lots of TMNA shares want to have the fundamental value of the shares reflected in the stock price. It is of course possible for TMNA to be listed on a major stock exchange itself, for instance on the NYSE. If the shareholders of TMNA show some patience it seems likely that its shares will be more or less as highly rated as the shares of TIO when they are presumably listed on a major American stock exchange. Are these more or less reasonable ideas?
Thebear37
"1) tmna has not explicitly guaranteed they will distribute all or any of the tio shares they receive. No one wants to own shares they can not get to or that will function as a capital source for some undefined project down the road. Tmna may choose to use the tip shares to find other projects rather than distribute." I must admit that I am too stupid to understand the points you make.
DAWG I think it is natural that TMNA owns TIO rather than the other way around. I wonder what will be the implications for the shareholders of TIO. If there is no real merger with the effect that TMNA will own 75% of the shares and TIO the recent news should have had some negative effect on the pps of TIO. Instead the pps is up more than 5% and the pps of TMNA has barely moved upwards. Is the market incompetent wjen it comes to assessing the implicaztions of the recent news? If it is not incompetent there will only be minor consequences based on the recent news.
Since about 90% of my inestment is in shares in TMNA I guess it will not have much effect on my taxes if the shares I own in TIO will not generate much taxes anyway. But I wonder if it would be a good idea to sell even more shares in TIO now to buy shares in TMNA. TMNA now seems to be an even better bet than in the past. But it could be that now is not the best time to do so since the pps of TIO may continue to rise faster than the shares of TMNA.
Dawg At least this makes the situation confused. TMNA has a very inferior quotation on the pink sheets. My impression that the float is higher in TIO than in TMNA. Even so, the number of shares traded in TIO is often 10 times as high as the number of shares traded in TMNA. Things would have been simpler if we were to receive shares in TIO and that there would be no more shares in TMNA. If we receive shares in TIO as a sort of stock dividend I suspect that it will entail a big tax charge for me living in a European country with a tax charge of 38% on dividends.
Is TIO no longer supposed to own TMNA? If it is I don't see any value in TMNA. But the new name presupposes that TMNA will continue to own the old activity as far as I can see. This makes no sense to me at all. But I understand that we who own shares in TMNA will still own a large share in the African business. I see that TIO is up to $ 2.30 the last time I checked. This implies that the news cannot be bad for TIO. The shares of TMNA have hardly moved so far.
Dawg I am too slow intellectually to understand what you mean. How would you communicate the contents of your post to morons?
aandt I think that is one reason. Another may be that there has been so much swindling by people from Nigeria that investors may get cold feet when a Nigerian businessman is the leader of TMNA. He and his father have built up the company over 22 years. I suggest you listen to the conference call on March 31 after the 10-K of TIO was filed. Quite a few questions were asked. The first was related to the possibility of false numbers. The leader of the NASDAQ company stated that millions of dollars had been spent in very thorough research of the African business as far as I remember. I got more convinced that this is not a scam after listening to the two leaders. They seemed to cooperate well in deciding who was to reply to the questions that were asked.
As usual the pps of TIO has already recovered the bulk of the steep decline.
aandt I went through the same process some days ago based on something else than the new risk warnings in the 10-K. My conclusion is that there seems to be great value that will belong to the shareholders of either the TIO Group or TMNA Inc. I have therefore chosen to have shares in both companies. I now have about 11,000 shares in TIO and 183,000 shares in TMNA. If TMNA were to get fewer than 75% of the shares after the reverse splits the value of the shares in TMNA will fewer shares after the conversion than I had reason to expect. But the shares in TIO will be worth a good deal more than expected. I don't see where the real value would go. But it could take some time before the real value is reflected in the stock price if things don't work out according to plan. But I think it should be assumed that there is considerable risk involved. I had considered selling some Norwegian shares worth about 14,000 dollars but I decided against doing that just in case something very negative were to pop up.
If you check the trading of TIO this morning you will see there has been a fairly dramatic dumping of shares. The same thing has happened several times before too. It could be caused by stop-loss selling or there may have been naked short selling.
aandt As usual I think it is a good idea to ignore all the warnings at the start of the 10-K. It would at least make little sence for the NASDAQ company not to vote in favor of the merger. That company lost several tens of millions of dollars last year whereas TMNA had net income of about 450 million dollars.