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Lawrence, I could not resist so I will one up you on fsshon's list, I would be happy with twenty five percent of his list at this point...LOL
mordicai, thanks for your input and I agree with you totally. I am just discussing based on what and how I have seen this court treat this case. As far as I am concerned, Rosie and a host of others should be immediately arrested for bankruptcy fraud and more!
Uzual, obviously I want the WHOLE thing to explode and go truly GLOBAL. I am assessing based on the court history of this case and actions with the courts obvious protection of JPM.
Short synopsis-The way I see it.
• POS POR 6+ denied
• Global Settlement intact
• Fair & reasonable intact
• Horsies busted and used for an example
• Total equitable disallowance.
• Due to monies possible for Equity-Rosie advise to include Equity in POR 7
• Equity will get the NEWCO, NOL’s and other
• Weasel/Gotcha/Mangle will get releases but not JPM/FDIC
• Walrath able to get settlement due to denial of POS POR 6+
• Not necessary to rule on some issues due to settlement
• TPS will be going at it alone or JPM will take care of via side deal
• Settlement for Equity to leave bankruptcy court will nullify many issues
mordicai, thank very much for your post. I knew there was something they could do, I just did not know exactly what is was, so thanks again. Most of us here really appreciate your thoughts, knowledge and due diligence.
After 3 years=understanding of previous actions=Only option=Deny!
After all that has been written, facts, solutions, thoughts and more I have come to the conclusion that this case now is VERY easy to figure out. All one has to do is look at the previous actions of the court and it will give you the EXACT decision in this case in terms of the decision to approve or not to approve the POS POR 6+. The following reasoning does not necessarily apply to any other decisions in this case. Think all of the main ingredients in this case and what normally happens in Delaware. The reason ninety percent of all U.S. based corporations incorporate in Delaware is because in the event any of these corporations get into trouble they will be able to reorganize in Delaware, cancelling equity whether or not they are solvent with hardly any questions asked. Kind of like going to Vegas running completely out of money and being able to go to the Cashier’s office and get a new stash of cash without hardly any questions asked. Then one can continue you’re gambling such as a corporation does as it gets reorganized and then comes out of chapter 11 and continues with its business plan with very little liability.
We know that beyond any doubt that this Judge wants to at least protect JPM at ALL costs and will let them get away with any and everything according to her past actions. Many hearings ago, this same Judge asked JPM if they had any paperwork as to what they received in a gentle way and the counsel for JPM said no, the Judge asked again, “you mean you do not have anything” and the counsel said no while the Judge replied, “well OK then” with NOTHING ever mentioned again about this subject. I remember at that very time I was floored and flabbergasted with such a response from the court. Fast forward to present time and Equity has barely survived and yes, this could have been all approved but yet it was not. I have always felt Walrath wanted Rosie to give the NEWCO and NOL’s to Equity but he would NEVER have any part of that and so here we are. Keep in mind, even in Walrath’s last POR opinion she carved out the NEWCO and NOL’s while she ensured the shareholders had nothing, TPS was zeroed out as they continue to be and she gave everything else of value to her beloved JPM.
With all of that said and for this Judge to continue to protect JPM she has only once choice as far as the approval or not goes and it has to be denied. At least the POS POR 6+ has to be denied while she could blame everything on the Horsies and claim the Global Settlement is still intact even though there is plenty to say that it should not be. The court argued VERY aggressively with Robert Starke about control, so to me that is EXTREMELY telling in what she wants to do. In order to keep control, she will kill the POS POR 6+, keep the Global Settlement alive through legal wrangling, let Rosie play another day instead of jail and possibly order Equity to be included in the talks of POR 7 and I would expect this to be filed in a less than one month from her ruling. This is the next best thing than to being zeroed out completely, keeps Equity alive, lets her BEVOVED Rosie/JPM off the hook and ENSURE this mess leaves her court with a settlement and never having to rule on the more difficult issues. In the end this court will PROTECT Rosie/JPM to extent possible and again there is only one way to do that and that is to deny! With this kind of deal Rosie will be assured of getting releases but NOT necessarily the other Criminals.
jhdf51, unfortnately there is ONLY one thing CRIMINALS are afraid of and that one word is PUBLICITY. Our country is so corrupt, the criminals are able to control that worldwide in print/media/other due to two or three people controlling 95 percent of that market with one of those names being Murdoch. AND the country we live in has the audacity to make "throw down" comments about second and third world countries!
fsshon, this is a beautiful in theory and in fact. This is what SHOULD happen based on the facts that we know. I love everything you have written because this is the way this case SHOULD go. The problem I have is I base my decisions on one's actions and well I guess I have to IMMEDIATELY stop here, because I have very little positive actions from this court to discuss. I know Equity WILL get something, but that is far as I can go at this time!
juju, great thought process indeed, but due to the amount of corruption and everything I have witnessed in the last three years with this case I believe I would hit the multi state lottery before that happend. I hope you take no offense...just saying.
I am not talking about the Hedge funds. I am talking about Rosie's law firm as any good lawyer has a way out and that is for them to issue POR 7 before they potentially losing control or do they know something?
Great feeling-EC counsel superb-One troubling question!
There is no doubt the Pro Se shareholders were superb as well as the EC counsel. I was very impressed, happy and have an excellent feeling because I know we cannot lose if the law is applied without coercion, threats, intimidation and other. Unfortunately, all of that is how we got to where we are, so for me to think that is not still playing a role would tantamount to being very naïve. However, I will say that I DO believe whole heartedly that the Judge would like the EC to have a least the NEWCO and NOL's which still puts Equity in the dollar (s) range versus zeroed out.
Here is my very troubling question that I cannot get past. We know that JPM/FDIC threw the Horsies and Rosie under the bus by not making a settlement before the Horsies were deposed and that also told me the Horsies would roll on Rosie, which they did. How can Rosie put Weasel/Gotcha/Mangle at risk for billions upon billions of dollars in malpractice claims, fraud, failure of fiduciary responsibility, conflict of interest by NOT issuing POR 7 without JPM/FDIC since they will not play? It would still seem to me that would have to happen or unfortunately for us, Rosie knows some sort of predetermined result. I cannot get around this as it just does NOT make any since to me unless he plans on doing it very soon like tonight or Friday night. I am interested in the board’s thoughts.
knick, yes, this is very troublesome IF we go past today without some form of Equity inclusive POR. I JUST CANNOT get past Rosie putting out this kind of exposure without knowing something. It just does NOT make sense to me.
Real, now tht one I like...BINGO!
You are correct, but I see and hear the term "lotto ticket" so much and it is infuriating to say the least.
ptolomeo, you are so wrong if you are comparing this to a lotto ticket. We have proof this bank has billions upon billion of assets over liabilities. Your bet is on corruption and nothing to do with the luck of a lotto ticket.
Remember what is under seal. PJS asset recovery list from pre 9/25/2008 and post 925/2008 and not to mention other goodies. Now that should make one go hum. How can Rosie go through with this unless he knows a predetermined outcome? He has Weasel/Gotcha/Mangle exposed for bankruptcy fraud, conflict of interest, failure of fiduciary responsibility to the Estate and many billions worth of malpractice claims.
I would think by late today or Friday night, Rosie would have to issue POR 7 which includes Equity if JPM/FDIC still does not want to play. I say they do not want to play, after all, they threw the Horsies and Rosie under the bus by forcing the depositions without settlement.
MrchntDeth, excellent post and yes you are correcct with this Judge having made up her mind. How could she have not? Let's hope her mind was not made up BEFORE Susman and Company entered their evidence and facts.
Here you go.
Dr. Acharya's
Reasons to deny far outweigh approval! To foster deal-keep control-Walrath must deny!
When one looks at both sides of the coin, it almost makes it impossible for this Judge to do anything other than to deny this Global Settlement scam in its entirety. Let’s start with the beginning; it is not a Global Settlement anyway without Equity, TPS and others. With Rosie and the Horsies being thrown under the bus by having to go through depositions, discovery and more; it would seem Rosie’s choices are down to VERY few. Remember, Rosie, the FDIC or JPM can singularly or together pull out of the Global Settlement with no repercussions, an emergency ejection button if you will. That button may be getting ready to be pushed either at the hearing on 8/24/11 or within hours to days after the Judge denies the plan. That would be to issue POR 7 without JPM/FDIC and to include Equity as Rosie’s emergency button to push for total ejection of the plan and to save Weasel/Gotcha/Mangle from total legal devastation. One would have to assume Susman would give a release to the corrupt law firm in order to go after the other Criminals. We know the Judge has not ruled on several items of action from her 1/7/11 opinion such as TPS. The reason would seem that if she would have made the correct ruling on any of these issues, the ruling would have made Equity larger than liabilities, thus putting Rosie out and Equity in the driver’s seat.
In order for the Judge to continue to protect her Government constituents she used the lame excuse, since she denied the plan she did not have to rule. I look for that to come into play in several examples if she has to make a ruling within the next sixty days. I just cannot get past Rosie letting the Judge issue her opinion, knowing full well that she cannot LEGALLY approve any or part of this illegal crime ridden travesty. If he is going to let the Judge issue her opinion, I am sorry that can ONLY tell me one thing and that is he already knows some sort of predetermined outcome. Otherwise, knowing full well how Weasel/Gotcha/Mangle are complicit to this bankruptcy fraud, malpractice, failure of fiduciary responsibility, not even remotely within “good faith” along with a host of other illegal/unethical behavior, how could Rosie NOT issue POR 7 with Equity and minus JPM/FDIC before the Judge has a chance to rule? Now I know the Judge COULD rule from the bench on Wednesday, but I do not think anybody would realistically believe that will happen, so what will Rosie do and not what will JPM/FDIC do being the 50 billion dollar question to avoid total legal devastation for their one thousand member law firm?
boarddork,good explanation and I feel it will be literally in the last minutes such as in court on 8/24. But if Rosie does not cede, then I am worried he already knows what is going to happen. It would not be normal to put your compnay at risk of destruction for one case. This does not make sense!
Boardork, now that is a FIVE star post but the problem is this Judge has NOT even as much as warned anybody for all of this illegal behavior. Now do not get me wrong, I would NEVER let one person decide MY FATE, knowing how guilty I am. JPM threw Rosie and the Hedgies under the bus and now they may NOT be able to settle on their own without JPM. However, there is one action that I am very troubled with.
That is if Rosie does NOT know a predetermined outcome from the court, how could Rosie continue to expose Weasel/Gotcha/Mangle to billions upon billions of dollars in malpractice claims, fraud and more? It would seem he would make POR 7 to include Equity or pull WMI out of the Global Settlement by the end of 8/24/2011 due to the possibility that Walrath COULD rule from the bench immediately following oral hearings. He has to know there is no way LEGALLY that this Judge could approve this travesty, so HOW could he make that kind of gamble? This is very telling and extremely troubling for me to get out of my mind.
Mordicai, the following is what I think and wrote adds to your point.
One fact/one question-Why kick over the insider trading rock unless...
I will not dwell or discuss much about the amount of corruption and a slanted court that would make a third world country look genuine. I feel there has to be a MUCH larger reason such as political or judicial purposes to kick over the rock of insider trading. This was nothing but hearsay from Thoma but not only did this Judge let it in, she discussed it several times in her opinion on 1/7/2011, granted limited discovery to move it forward, knowing full well that Susman would latch on and now he has proven it. I cannot imagine this Judge ignoring this vital piece to only embarrass herself further by doing nothing to the Horsies. I am saying they are WAY under estimating this Judge and if she is going after these Horsies as HER ACTIONS SHOW, these fools are really sunk.
There is nothing and I mean nothing in this case of billions upon billions of dollars that this Judge even remotely cared about according to her actions, except this vital crime of insider trading. If these fools are gambling their entire freedom on this weak Judge, they are even more stupid than I gave them credit for unless they know something predetermined. I also cannot get past them gambling their status in society, freedom, wealth and much more on ONE play which unfortunately takes me back to a two words, predetermined outcome. But, but, if this outcome is NOT predetermined these so called intelligent people will be spending many, many years behind bars. Now punks how do you feel? Is the Judge going to USE YOU for examples? The Judge’s actions and my gut feeling says YOU ARE BUSTED!!!
One fact/one question-Why kick over the insider trading rock unless...
I will not dwell or discuss much about the amount of corruption and a slanted court that would make a third world country look genuine. I feel there has to be a MUCH larger reason such as political or judicial purposes to kick over the rock of insider trading. This was nothing but hearsay from Thoma but not only did this Judge let it in, she discussed it several times in her opinion on 1/7/2011, granted limited discovery to move it forward, knowing full well that Susman would latch on and now he has proven it. I cannot imagine this Judge ignoring this vital piece to only embarrass herself further by doing nothing to the Horsies. I am saying they are WAY under estimating this Judge and if she is going after these Horsies as HER ACTIONS SHOW, these fools are really sunk.
There is nothing and I mean nothing in this case of billions upon billions of dollars that this Judge even remotely cared about according to her actions, except this vital crime of insider trading. If these fools are gambling their entire freedom on this weak Judge, they are even more stupid than I gave them credit for unless they know something predetermined. I also cannot get past them gambling their status in society, freedom, wealth and much more on ONE play which unfortunately takes me back to a two words, predetermined outcome. But, but, if this outcome is NOT predetermined these so called intelligent people will be spending many, many years behind bars. Now punks how do you feel? Is the Judge going to USE YOU for examples? The Judge’s actions and my gut feeling says YOU ARE BUSTED!!!
One decisive action alters case-Judge gets credit where credit is due!
From the very onset of the case, the Judge has not appeared to have control over much including any kind of oversight or follow through actions with one exception. This exception is “case altering” and is providing the sunlight we all see. After three years of Rosie’s perversion, criminal and despicable acts, Equity is now on the verge of taking control either through decision or settlement. Interesting enough, there are many actions that happened in the nick of time for Equity, that has made me really wonder if WMI has secret allies in Government, business or other. I say yes we do, as there have been too many actions such as the tag on to the bill Obama signed on a Friday night the second week of October, 2009 to take the NOL’s from two year carry back to five. This increased WMI coffers by an extra couple of billion, sending Rosie troubling issues to his plan. Then we have time consuming laws that were in the making alongside WMI filing such as Stern and then ANICO happening at just the right time. As they say in life, timing IS everything!
Due to the Kmart decision many years ago where people were outraged that Delaware Court System could zero out all of equity, only to find a handful of people who were issued the newly printed stock would be enriched by hundreds of millions of dollars within weeks and months from bankruptcy discharge. Now to my point, I cannot help believe that Delaware was put on notice from the U.S. Supreme Court on down that this kind of outrage will not be tolerated, thus the law that was slowly making its way through to final positive resolution this past June now alters WMI’s case. People have been outraged at the Hedge Funds who are encouraging bankruptcy fraud so they can practice insider trading at the expense of small investors. This is a win, win for Delaware, Hedge Funds and the losers are once again, investors who have been defrauded so a couple of certain entities win while making losers and fools of the rest of society. This was a close US Supreme Court victory for the small people, as it takes the power of decision away from the Delaware Court System and I feel has much to do with Kmart and others.
When Thoma presented to the court the heresay evidence on insider trading, I was not only TOTALLY impressed by him but also shocked at the way I immediately noticed how this commanded the Judge’s attention, something I have not witnessed in the cases entirety. I have also noticed how this Judge separated all assets and claims in her POR Opinion on 1/7/2011 which basically gave EVRERYTHING away with the exception of the NOL’s and in my opinion the Judge wanted Equity to also have the NEWCO with the NOL’s. Of course, Rosie was NOT going to have any of that-Equity receiving anything which was/is his downfall. I have no doubts the Judge wants to use the Hedge funds as an example to show the higher courts that Delaware is paying attention and will not let the Hedge Funds make such gross amounts of money while committing crimes that nobody has done anything about, YET. This is the only item that seems to have the Judge’s attention. She could have very easily ignored Thoma but to my shock she did not. This leads me to believe that this fell right into her lap as Delaware has been attacked because of cases such as Kmart. Once again, it is very obvious to me from the beginning that this Judge (thank God) wants to use the Hedge Funds to show Delaware has and will enforce the law at least on insider trading with Hedge Funds extracting gross profits from the system. Look for Walrath to TOTALLY disgorge the profits and claims from the Hedge Funds and I will not even guess if she will do more to them.
Lawrence, now that is interesting. Did we give this to them in the dark of night as well? Unbelievable!
Lawrence, yea...there are unfortunately several I missed. For some reason with all of this corruption, crime and cover-up, I tried to find some humor. When one actually reads all of these little quips, it is hard to believe a U.S. Federal Bankruptcy Judge said these with billions upon billion of dollars at stake. All right then, are we done yet?
Royal. with all of this corruption, I was trying to find a little humor, but the problem is it is REAL.
All right then, are we done yet? One has to laugh.
• All right then, I think I will move this forward.
• All right then, I will make a ruling to DUAL TRACK this case.
• What, more discovery…This has been investigated to death!
• I will cite the Examiner, but nobody else can.
• He is not going to answer, move on.
• I am an expert witness, I will decide.
• I will have this ruling ASAP.
• I find all of this fair & reasonable.
• WE will not discuss the fair & reasonable again.
• What’s the hurry
• I do not see any hope for IT, claims, real estate, cash or any assets of WMI.
• You Honor I would like an expedited appeal on fair & reasonable-DENIED!
• TPS- I do not understand what you are saying for the 30th time-DENIED-It Happened!
• Brian, once you get the releases modified, come on back sweety and we can move this forward.
Blackstone, TPG, others bid for Morgan Keegan!
No link yet but it is on CNBC's ticker tape.
Unfortunately Don, you now see what I have seen in this Judge for over two years. Again, I always judge on one's actions and the actions of this Judge has been deplorable to say the least. The one action I can say is to prepare for the worst and there is a play here and hope for the best.
I am still very confident as I have always felt this case is larger than this Judge. In order for the criminals to win, they had to get this case closed out in their original plan of 8-15 months for which I take heart in that they have failed miserably. We will get there, but maybe not before ANOTHER corrupt decision by this Judge who should be charged with aiding and abetting multiple crimes especially bankruptcy fraud!
Monica, the only thing I know for sure are that one's actions speak FAR larger than one's words, especially coming from people who have not earned respect, but rather expect respect because of their titles. Again, just because you have a title does not mean IMHO you earned it. Many people cheat their way through life and does Biden's name ring a bell? To me the behavior of this Judge to someone she obviously favors by her actions and decisions SHOULD be harshly dealt with to the point of NOT be able to work on the same case!
wamu, obviously actions are FAR more telling than words will ever be. They act as if they are ACTUALLY partners and I have said that for a long time. If it is not true, I do believe their actions would be much different. Have you EVER heard of a Judge anywhere in the U.S. who is allowed to be belittled, lawyer does not follow through with Court's instructions, does what he pleases to the very point of embarrassing the court? I know until now, I have not. These types of actions are just not normal for someone who carries immense power.
I am sure Susman can get an exigent stay based on ANICO and Stern rulings where there are potentially 20-100 billion dollars at stake and you can bet Susman will have it filed within minutes if needed.
JuJu, thanks and just think we are almost SOMEWHERE! What I mean by that, is we will at least know for sure if these Criminals have any chance to zero us out by mid September at the latest. IMHO this Judge already zeroed equity out in her last POR decision on 1/7/2011, so with her denial we KNOW for a fact she CANNOT do that again! There is nothing better than knowing this Judge who obviously favors JPM and that she is officially cornered legally!!!
Control=POR denial=Possible deal=JPM partial shield=Walrath win vs. total failure!
Well folks here we are three years in the making with nothing but total corruption, an embarrassing judicial system, crimes and much more that we do not even know about. How does Walrath keep control in order to possibly foster a settlement? It is ABSOLUTELY NOT by approving this POS POR 6+. Just think what would happen if she approved this travesty. The case would be stayed, appealed, overturned and possibly break wide open to the point of embarrassing United States in front of the entire world. Next, JPM/FDIC would be on the hook for much more than in recent history. If the public were to REALLY find out the amount of theft and corruption that has encompassed the FDIC/JPM, it could actually destroy both (here is to hoping) to the point of no return.
Look at the possibilities if Walrath does the correct judicial action and not only denies the plan but also the Global Settlement. With the amount of proof, there cannot be much of a middle ground. She either denies in total or approves. If she denies she can avoid ANICO, Stern, Fair and Reasonable rulings along with the potential to actually get a settlement before this leaves her court. At this point, I believe she is really worried about her legacy. She is very close to losing power in this case if she does not deny with the amount of evidence, there will be no question of her aiding and abetting multiple crimes. Also, look for Susman to openly challenge this Judge if she were to approve.
As we look forward to Wednesday, August 24th, 2011, I have to say that if the Judge is planning on denying this plan, we may hear her decision on 8/24 or more than likely on Friday evening, August 26th, 2011. There would be no reason to waste another month of everybody’s time and money, when she can follow up with her written decision which she should have almost completed by that time anyway. It would seem to me the easy decision for this Judge is to deny or she has no power over the ultimate outcome. I will stand on her wanting this power of control in order to foster a settlement. She would otherwise have no chance with an approval being obviously overturned as ANICO was by a higher authority and creating a disaster for her legacy. We are almost there folks and I feel better about Equities chance of success more now than ever and remember this Judge cannot zero Equity out again with a plan denial as she did with her last decision. Equities will have to rise dramatically with denial and if there is no settlement by this point we will be on to DC. Here there will be a settlement before the criminals let a jury destroy them.
diamond, as always you are "spot on" although when the XXXX hits the fan, I will tell you in advance that you may need to add some more "pluses ++++" to your figure.
TPS will be the key!
I think if we do not see anything from TPS in the next two hours or so, something big could be going on because these folks are after the crooks who stole their money big time. I would not make so much out of the EC’s filing, YET. I but I feel TPS is the real key to finding out something in the next couple of hours.
If TPS files under seal you can bet there is some form of an agreement, probably to be discussed on Friday at the hearing. No way TPS would be filing under seal as much as they hate these criminals. They did NOT file under seal for the objections when the EC originally did.
Your replying to the wrong post as I never said anything about an advocate Judge.
And she could have DEMANDED a list or contract of what was transferred in the first thirty days of this case so she would know what she was suppose to judge and this case would have been over within six months. This same Judge asked a person who filed a claim repeatedly to see his contract to prove what he was talking about but NEVER ASKED/DEMANDED a list or contract of what was transferred involving a three hundred plus billion dollar organization to this very day and do not tell me she could not!