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Diamond, why are you not thinking about converting some of your commons to preferreds, now that we know part of the structure? Just curious, as the returns apprea to be much better.
fsshon, I agree you are correct, but I think they were working behind the scenes well before that was ever decided. So what do you think of Walrath's conudrum now as she HAS TO RULE unless some other bizarre event takes place?
Relenteless, all I can say is one does NOT get to be great by doing average work so when one plays great poker and is successful, one's opponents are taken by surprise. Let's hope that is the case but only time will tell.
Walrath and her self imposed conundrum!
Well unfortunately there is no doubt when Walrath rules she will have to rule against Art when by ALL means he should prevail. If she rules for DIMEQ, then she has huge problem with TPS. There is also no doubt Walrath never planned on making a DIMEQ ruling and now by her own corrupt actions of aiding and abetting this case of bankruptcy fraud, she has cornered herself. Since the legal team has FORCED her into a ruling she has to be livid that these people are not doing what she wants and is trying to figure a way out of this mess.
I think she thinks she can ram this through now that equity is on board and after reading DIMEQ’s objection, they make Susman look bad and I am hoping he was just playing along as I have always felt Susman was working behind the scenes with TPS and others. If he is not, then I gave Susman way too much credit and time will tell very soon. I would like to know if all of these objections with TPS/DIMEQ can derail the POR or if she will just ram through. This appears to be a perfect opening for Susman to go after the Global Settlement and have it taken down. Susman’s actions will soon tell soon tell Equity the true story on our representation and fingers crossed.
fsshon. good post as always, but I will still say this is not over and there WILL BE a MAJOR twist that most people will have never seen coming. We shall see!
Strike, you are correct and IF, IF, IF, Susman is serious with this current (I am suspect)deal that I hope blows into smitherines, then this will be some sort of financial institution. They have kept the licenses renewed along with many other types of renewals as one only has to inspect Perkins/Coye's billing over the last two years.
fsshon, what are your thoughts on Susman agreeing to this POR, but not really serious. Now we know that Susman has had discussions with TPS and we know this Judge does not like TPS and would love to equitably moot them into nonexistence. I have always thought that Susman was quietly and behind closed doors working WITH TPS.
Could Susman just be playing along to look great knowing somehow, some other way, this Global Settlement can be thrown out? Susman's history shows one of "shock" to his opponents and could this actually be what he is doing? He is appearing to be going to the finish line as a true corporate type of player, only to pull out the true "smoking gun" or am I giving him too much credit? I have always felt there has to be MORE/shock to this case, than this boring kind of ending after all we have been through. This ending to me is NOT fitting for all that has transpired, as it is not SHOCKING enough! Just saying!
Susman will nail FDIC on emergence if I am correct!
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I do NOT see the FDIC (in its corporate capacity) released with the new deal. I JUST see the FDIC released and this imay be why Susman took the deal and why FDIC as far as we know has still NOT agreed to this mess.
They could derail the entire Global Settlement if what I think is accurate. I am looking for clarity but the way it reads in the Disclosure Statement is JUST the FDIC and not FDIC-R or FDIC-C.
Mrchn, great post and I agree. It will be interesting as I would almost make a bet that that the timeline for a decision on DIMEQ will be at the Thursday's hearing (maybe late evening) or before Monday. Let's watch WMI equity prices the next two days in particular.
Mrchnt, read my post on the "SN's" taking a haircut and let me know what you think. Since this Judge will not make JPM pay for anything they stole, this sounds like an excellent way to deal with this claim since the SN's are way above par anyway.
Rockie, read my recent post. Equity should be in the clear according to Kevin Starke and that would explain why Susman is happy with the deal as the money for their claim will come from the Senior Noteholders taking a haircut!
Correct me if I am wrong-Starke's article is actually positive for equity!
When reading Starke’s article about DIMEQ and to me it appears he has a twist saying that DIMEQ will be paid from post-petition interest of the senior notes which should boost the price of WMI equities since this is/has been a very dark cloud over preferred and common shares.
WaMu Mediation Expanded to Included DIMEQ Securities
The mediator for Washington Mutual Inc. was given another assignment last week. The bankruptcy judge on Dec. 15 signed an order including representatives of the so-called litigation warrants into the mediation.
WaMu's revised plan sets aside $337 million to cover the securities, known as DIMEQs in view of the ticker symbol. A trial has been held in the bankruptcy court where the judge could rule any day on how the DIMEQs should be treated under the plan.
Should the security holders win, the result would be "a very bad outcome for the lower tiers of debt claims in the WaMu structure," Kevin Starke from CRT Capital Group LLC said in a report. Stark said a victory by the security holders "has the potential to shave some recovery on post-petition interest even off the senior notes."
Although a settlement with the DIMEQs isn't necessary for plan confirmation, resolution of the dispute would resolve a major open item affecting distributions to other creditor classes. The bankruptcy judge directed the parties to submit position papers to the mediator today.
WaMu filed a seventh's amended plan last week incorporating a global settlement designed so the bankruptcy judge won't be forced to preside over another contested confirmation hearing. For details on the settlement, click here for the Dec. 13 Bloomberg bankruptcy report.
The bankruptcy judge brought in a mediator after writing a 139-page opinion in September finding defects and refusing to confirm WaMu's plan for a second time this year
For details on Walrath's opinion rejecting WaMu's plan, click here for the Sept. 14 Bloomberg bankruptcy report. For details on Walrath's opinion earlier this year rejecting the prior version of the plan, click here for the Jan. 10 Bloomberg bankruptcy report. For details on the plan as revised after the January ruling, click here for the Feb. 14 Bloomberg bankruptcy report. For details on later changes, click here for the March 21 Bloomberg bankruptcy report.
The WaMu holding company filed under Chapter 11 in September 2008, one day after the bank subsidiary was taken over. The bank, once the sixth-largest depository and credit- card issuer in the U.S., was the largest to fail in the country's history.
The holding company filed formal lists of assets and debt showing property with a total value of $4.49 billion against liabilities of $7.83 billion.
The holding company Chapter 11 case is In re Washington Mutual Inc., 08-12229, U.S. Bankruptcy Court, District of Delaware (Wilmington).
The BIG secret! Real reason EC is SMILING!
I remember in Jan/Feb/Mar of 2010 when Rosie’s plan was too originally to cancel equity and issue new shares after chapter 11 exits for $25.00 a share and I BELIEVE there were going to be about the same number of outstanding shares and this would be 200-300 hundred million. They are going to do the same thing with conversion and keep in mind the market is only valuing this at what the filing says now without the additional information that will be forth coming.
They are NOT including anything other than the 250-300 hundred million they claim the company is going to be worth. This will be valued IMHO at $25.00 a common share and that would explain why the EC is very happy. You may have many less shares but they will PROBABLY start at 25.00 a share and then skyrocket!
rockie, JPM/FDIC could pull out at any time but I highly doubt it unless the FDIC-C are not getting released and then they may or may not continue with this mess. I feel there are still twists coming but at this time it cannot be anymore negative to Equity than has already happened.
Gmenfan, keep in mind many people forget all of the stuff under seal and I cannot help but believe some of that has to do with assets that have been missing for three years. Susman probably agreed if these assets were to go with the company going forward then he would lay low.
Can you imagine the outcry if this stock was valued at $15.00 a common share in bankruptcy? This would disrupt the entire blackout on WaMu for the last three years and that just could not be exposed. I know what happened in Kmart and others so I suggest you research some of these and you too will come up with what I have.
Xdimer, my post very clearly said IF we have a short squeeze or MAYBE or COULD and I never said it WAS without doubt going to happen. I kept discussing that this is a possibility and we will not know until two things happen. One a filing is made showing the commons are not cancelled and the two the trading would immediately dictate a squeeze and I am still NOT ruling it out since there is so much covered up here and two months until chapter 11 exit.
A new horizon & thanks goes to MW/Susman for NOT zeroing out Equity!!!
I was following Kmart and other Delaware give away companies that dismissed equity and I will say the following. I still think considering some people’s extreme cases of “Stockholm Syndrome” we have had with many people here that were so in love with this corrupt Judge who has been aiding and abetting bankruptcy fraud with her partner, Rosie for three years, I actually have some positive statements. When one understands what they really do in Delaware and realizes Susman had to give up very much to keep this corrupt Judge’s pen away from another POS POR that zeroes out Equity, then you will start to see what I have been seeing for a very long time, but the caveat was, Equity could NOT be CANCELLED. We won huge considering a corrupt court, law firm, Government and more. Stop and think about that previous statement for a minute and celebrate.
Now, what I see is exactly what the CRIMINALS have seen and done several times before. That is to cancel equity and steal all of the proceeds, issue new stock to only a handful and watch the stock skyrocket. Guess what folks, ole Susman is not stupid as he did not gamble the entire farm away and let this court get another chance to zero out equity, because that is exactly what would have happened. The Judge would have been forced to approve and cancel Equity IMHO by her corrupt Government bosses. So, now you get to ride the rocket ship that the Horsies were piloting to the moon, only now they have a NEW passenger called Equity and to the moon we will go. Stand down naysayers and I will even say without knowing specifics but based on some past knowledge of how these criminal’s enterprise system works, this stock and whatever the name will be and assuming chapter 11 exit in February, 2012 will be between $30.00 minimum and $70.00 a common WaMu share within eight months from exit. You can bet on it heavily now that you know you will not be cancelled and the cream WILL rise to the top!
Monica, I was really referring to the BIG criminal players such as the top 2-5 people from FDIC/JPM and then of course Susman who I am not referring to as part of the criminals and IF THIS HAPPENS everything else will just fall into place. The WORLD will be released including the CRIMINALS at Weasel/Gotcha/Mangle from any wrongdoing and this will be DEEP SIXED forever and if anybody thinks the CRIMINALS in Government are going to let ANYBODY fool with the criminal activity that occured, well unfortunately they mean well but are totally naive to this situation, unfortunately.
That IMHO will be the LARGER crime in letting these CRIMINALS off the hook, but that is the way our system is set up and that is why these activities are continually repeated through history. If they are caught use the stolen goods to MAYBE BUY their way out and I say maybe because they have the audacity from our perverted system that they feel they owe nothing period even after being caught!!!
Royal, in order for the CRIMINALS to prevent leaks the top 2-5 people who have the power to end this crime ridden saga and bury it all would order it done on a weekend or holiday extended closure of the markets. They would also have to have a foundation in place where all they would have to do is insert the language, offer the monies and by now they would know what is acceptable for full releases and a true Global Settlement.
Hum, Hum, the foundation was announced last week and the dates are lined up such as disclosure being possibly Monday-through Wednesday, dates in January lined up and an exit chapter 11 plan lined up for late February, 2012. I would say that that the CRIMINALS COULD be inserting that language TODAY and then guess what...I will let Jinsong finish...
investor, yes you are correct, they can reissue the shares but there IS a value with those share which will dictate a foundation for the reissued shares. The only way to avoid the short squeeze is to show L>A and cancel the VALUE (equity) in the Estate. Again, IMHO, this IS the ONLY reason this mess has NOT settled to this day.
Obviously, we will not know for sure unless number one, an 8K filing showing the commons are NOT cancelled and then two, one will see the prices on WAMUQ soar about whatever value the 8K shows in the company going forward. This to me explains the desparate actions of the CRIMINALS to do anything legal or not to get equity cancelled!
Good morning Yanik, no doubt this is Kmart style and the value will be shown within the first eight to fifteen months following chapter 11 exit, but what I am talking about is as soon as the 8K filing is released. This will show the commons are not cancelled. This is where the value will soar above whatever the FICTIOUS value the company going forward is in the filing.
My guess is that could be as low as ten to twenty cents per common share but if there is a short squeeze the value could TEMPORARILY go to multi dollars and then way back down to the 8K filing of whatever fictious value is shown. You and I know they are (including the EC)hiding the true value, but it will be forced out by the EC after chapter 11 exit in the same manner the Horsies planned on doing. Only now, Equity owns ALL of the company going forward or will share with the Horsies!
ES1, obviously you have knowledge in this possible arena of a short squeeze and I want to THANK YOU very much for your contribution. Your discussion is exactly in line with what I know and have known about this subject. So, now we wait for two key points. First, in order for us to have a chance at the short squeeze, the commons must have a filing showing they are intact and not cancelled. Then second, the actions in the market will within minutes dictate if the true CRIMINALS have covered their illegal shares.
I will say they have not, as the price on WAMUQ will soar WAY above whatever the 8K filling showing the value of the company going forward is. During the short squeeze, the swings up and down with be earth shaking and exactly in roller coaster style. If this squeeze happens, there will be fortunes made and lost in minutes, hours and days to weeks depending on how long it lasts. There will be no way to tell and all I can do is advise that this will be exactly like a roller coaster and DO NOT try to outsmart as YOU WILL LOSE if you try!
wang, no, but what I am saying since there is 1.7 billion WAMUQ outstanding and if I am correct in my suspicians that the CRIMINALS have NOT covered their illegal/naked short shares the total IMHO of outstanding shares would be added to this number.
I feel since I have been fowllowing since early summer of 2008 that there is anywhere from one to three billion EXTRA illega/naked short shares out. IMHO, since the CRIMINALS already knew the predetermined outcome of Equity (cancelled) why in the hell would they even spend one half of a penny to three pennies a share to cover? My sense tells me the CRIMINAL's ego would not let them waste their money!
rockie, you are missing the point. It is not only JPM that was rumor mongering, dealing with the naked illegal shares. You had Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley and a host of other entities. JPM would still have to deal with the short squeeze and as I have said before could be the REAL reason this has not settled. They have been unable to cancel equity for well over three years now.
Diamond, this is what I wrote to Oilstrike and I will repeated for you as we have been discusssing this possible short squeze.
Oil, I disagree with Diamond Guru as he says this will just halt and that will be that. I believe this will be settled over a weekend or holiday and open revalued possibly, thus negating the halt. To this point about a halt, I think a halt would make matters even worse for the people on the wrong side of the "short squeeze" as it would bring unwanted publicity. Unless someone can explain a short squeeze better than shifting money from the left pocket to the right pocket as DG says if JPM buys lock, stock and barrel, I do not think a short squeeze can be avoided. I believe the only way a short squeeze can be avoided, assuming there is one here, is to cancel equity completely by keeping liabilities larger than assets and then issuing new stock. I still believe this is the only reason this has not settled.
Once there are illegal/naked shares out there, the only way they do NOT exist is if equity is cancelled period and as long as there is value in the original shares, nothing could prevent the short squeeze other than by cancelling equity period. This is probably why the CRIMINALS including Rosie gambled everything to get equity cancelled. This is my view and I willl stick with it unless somebody else has a better explanation and so far they have not. By shifing money from one pocket to another does NOT avoid a short squeeze as these illegal shares have been held/sold/shorted by a multitude of players once the original illegal shares were put out there. I am hoping and praying we will see but the only way we will see is if the common shares are NOT cancelled. I say they WILL NOT BE CANCELLED!!!
Oil, I disagree with Diamond Guru as he says this will just halt and that will be that. To this point about a halt, I think a halt would make matters even worse for the people on the wrong side of the "short squeeze" as it would bring unwanted publicity. Unless someone can explain a short squeeze better than shifting money from the left pocket to the right pocket as DG says if JPM buys lock, stock and barrel. I believe the only way a short squeeze can be avoided, assuming there is one here, is to cancel equity completely by keeping liabilities larger than assets and then issuing new stock. I still believe this is the only reason this has not settled yet.
Once there are illegal/naked shares out there the only way they do NOT exist is if equity is cancelled period and as long as there is value in the original shares, nothing could prevent the short squeeze other than by cancelling equity period. This is probably why the CRIMINALS including Rosie gambled everything to get equity cancelled. This is my view and I willl stick with it unless somebody else has a better explanation and so far they have not. By shifing money from one pocket to another does NOT avoid a short squeeze as these illegal shares have been held/sold/shorted by a multitude of players once the original illegal share were put out there. I am hoping and praying we will see but the only way we will see is if the common shares are NOT cancelled. I say they WILL NOT BE CANCELLED!!!
And do not forget where Madoff had that fifty billion dollar worth of transactions...good ole JPM and NOT a word from anybody on this or very little. That is called a MONEY LAUNDERING BANK for the US Government!!!
955, IMHO, these people are terrorists and should be treated as such and ANYONE aiding and abetting them are also just as guilty!!!
rockie, I did and had to leave a message. Do you know how I can keep from making my post from coming out in bold type?
Investor, thanks as I have not found anything more either.
Chiron, this is always possible and I was wanting to see if anybody else has seen anything. I cannot find anything on Fidelity related to recent news on WaMu.
Jmac, I would not JOKE about this and yes his information is as truthful as someone can be!
Great News! We are almost there!
I do not expect everybody to believe me but a friend of mine was trying to call me last night around 9:00pm to tell me on the Fidelity website they had released our settlement but the exact terms would be coming on Monday. The only problem is he did not copy/paste it. I know trust this source as much as I do Fidelity so naysayers and BASHERS stand down please.
The time stamp on the Fidelity piece was actually 11:00am Eastern Time and I know it was never put out publically at that time because I was looking and it was not out between 2:00 and 7:00pm either. I was specifically looking Friday evening but had to check out early and my friend read the whole thing and it stated there had been issues with TPS and hopefully were going to resolve these but specifically commons were going to be saved and in the money.
No monetary figures were released in the article other than to discuss about the seven billion in liability figure and TPS issues. There was more too the article but the fact that the article was out around 9:00pm and then pulled between 1000pm and 6:00am this morning. Great news and we are finally about to be somewhere the CRIMINALS never planned on us to be!!!
You and I most likely believe there is anywhere from 1-3 billion fake shares out there. The way I am thinking about the CRIMINALS ego and how they operate my thoughts are since they knew (thought) the ultimate plans to cancel equity originally, why would they have paid even a little money to cover in the aftermath of the seizure and since? What are you thoughts? Do you agree or do you think they would have covered all of their mess? If they did NOT cover then this WILL be the worlds LARGEST short squeeze in history!
Goph, there are basically no rules when the major holders agree to a settlement, so you can throw APR out the window...means nothing in the face of the majority stakeholders making an agreement so get this out of your mind. In chapter seven or anything other than an outright agreement then yes, APR would apply!
umw, I know but was really referring to how Kmart's real estate was NEVER valued as an asset, thus the CRIMINALS were able to cancel equity, issue new shares which soared post confirmation of their plan. That is why I have a LARGE investment here which my bet is the CRIMINALS WILL NOT be totally successful in cancelling Equity. Thus, a HUGE increase in equity across the board within days to 15 months from confirmation rarely if if EVER seen by Wall Street to the extent the commons will rise.
Actions speak loudly-Mediation over by choice or settlement! BASHERS are TOAST!
I do not think it is very hard to figure out, but the hard part to figure is where we stand with all of the case altering issues. I think it is safe to say there is SOME form of settlement, but the form this takes will surprise most. I think we will have to wait until the 8k filing comes and when it does go with the valuation of the “said” company going forward.
If the 8K filing equates to ten or twenty cents a share, I will be happy just to find out the common shares will not be cancelled. I KNOW the value will later skyrocket “KMART STYLE” and when it does, it will start rising immediately after chapter 11 exit. Then it will go to multi dollars VERY quickly if not before depending on if there is a short squeeze or not. If there was a delay they would have filed it already. Again, Rosie’s NON ACTIONS publically and more speak volumes in a positive way for Equity!
Monica, my guess is when you are guilty the best way to go about NOT destroying the rest of their lives is to negotiate. They put out publically how all this is a sham but when your life is on the line number one is they know it and number two is to minimize your overall self imploding destruction as quietly as possible and that is what they are doing.
Penny, obviously, I do NOT know the exact truth about a short squeeze and whether the CRIMINALS covered or not and I do not believe anybody discussing this currently knows the truth either. What I have discussed orginally was a POSSIBLE doozy of a Short Squeeze.
I do not think anybody knows the truth until Equity is saved and be deemed to be "in the money" through an 8K filing backed by Equity and then the facts will prove they covered or they did not. There will be NO middle ground on this subject at that point in time and we just have to hope that Susman is able to take to the Promised Land!
Goph, you keep under estimating the CRIMINALS ego here. Again, they thought they knew the predeterminded result for Equity...CANCELLED, so Equity would ultimately be cancelled and automatically closing their positions, therefore ABSOLUTELY no reason to cover...Again, why as they thought they knew the PREDETERMINED result for Equity?