Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
<< ... the potential revenue from these three production runs ... >>
I can only find two production runs (8 Nov & 28 Nov). Where is the 3rd?
Yes, I am fully aware. But that is still talking about creating a KBLB silkworm.
And KBLB's GMO silkworms are exactly what needs to be tested by Vietnam after they have entered the country.
Are you saying (or implying) that Vietnam doesn't need to test KBLB's GMO silkworms?
<< Development for the new hybrid was completed in-house, at Kraig Labs R&D facility using its Dragon Silk colony silkworms and a commercial mundane silkworm strain >>
Yes, but that seems to indicate that the result is a "new KBLB hybrid" silkworm.
The "new KBLB hybrid" is what the Vietnamese would want to crossbreed with "regular" Vietnamese worms and test. They would want to make sure that the KBLB silkworms are not vectors (aka carriers) of a disease that can wipe out the entire silkworm population, or cause a contagious human sickness when a worker decides to snack on them.
<< Me personally, if it was me deciding things I would want to see a minimum of 3 life cycles, demanding quality consistent thru out the 3rd generation in whatever means KBLB maintains quality. A minimum of 3 generations. >>
I would also want to crossbreed KBLB's silkworms with the "normal" silkworms used in Vietnam and then subject the offspring to a variety of diseases to see how they would fare.
I think that the last thing Vietnam wants is a hybrid silkworm taking over the silkworm population and being susceptible to a common disease. That could wipe out their entire industry.
<< So every 10,000 worms will make 4 lb of the precious DS 2.0 >>
Yes (more or less), in a perfect world. Some sites say you need 3,000 worms per pound.
In addition, you need about 100 lbs of mulberry leaves for every lb of silk. That is a LOT of mulberry...
For a ton of silk, they would need 200,000 lb of mulberry leaves. I hope they have a big closet at the US location. LOL.
<< Within a few weeks two multi-million dollar production runs were completed for “major clients,” which has a potential revenue of $90 million. >>
For quite a few reasons, I believe that the $4.1 million run is for revenue of $4.1 million.
Would you like to expand on that statement a little?
Any evidence to back up that statement?
Or it's just an opinion based on a feeling?
<< Vietnam signed a deal with us so that we could import our worms and then be able to mass produce. >>
No, they didn't. They signed a deal that allows KBLB to RESEARCH.
<< While we are waiting for production in Vietnam...
The US facility is working with multi millions of our latest super spider silk worms DS 2.0..
We can expect a huge tonnage update on this at any time...... >>
I am pretty sure that someone recently posted that KBLB said the U.S. will NOT be used for production, and that ALL production was slated for Vietnam.
As a matter fact, if you look at the 7 Nov PR that you pointed out, it says:
"Scale up of Dragon Silk 2.0 is well underway, with the production team already raising tens of thousands of the new transgenic silkworms at the Company’s US based pilot production facility."
"“The ability to rapidly scale up this newly announced material, from initial testing to pilot scale production..."
Notice that it calls the US facility "pilot production" and it calls it "pilot scale production". That means that it won't be used for full-scale production (and there will be NO tonnage coming from the US).
In addition, later in the PR it states:
"Future scale up of Dragon Silk 2.0, as well as the Company’s other lines of recombinant spider silk silkworms, is expected to be transferred to the Company’s subsidiary Prodigy Textiles and its operations in Vietnam, while the Company’s US facility remains focused on the development of next generation materials."
That basically says that the US facility will be used for RESEARCH and that full-scale production will take place in Vietnam.
And as I pointed out in a previous post, production in Vietnam won't happen for most of 2019.
THERE WILL BE NO PRODUCTION FOR MOST OF 2019...
<< To make sure our worms are safe requires very little lab work and testing. ... It will probably take a day or two at the most. >>
That made me bust out laughing. Thanks for that.
I can guarantee that it will take many months for the worms to be tested. After all, this is the FIRST TIME that Vietnam will be dealing with GMO worms. They probably don't even know what they will be testing at this point.
<< If you think the company or Vietnam is going to spend months researching and playing games, you would be wrong. >>
Sorry, but you are the one that is wrong.
The deal with Vietnam was CONTINGENT on KBLB first going through a research phase. IF the Vietnamese like what comes out of the research phase, then they MIGHT approve production. But there has been NO guarantee. It will be MANY months before the research phase is completed. Remember, they haven't even STARTED the research phase yet and there are many things still left before they can (shipment of eggs, quarantine, setup, etc).
<< The army has not cancled the contract so the ship seems to still be tied to the dock. >>
The contract is over. It ended a few months ago (in Sep 2018). There is absolutely no need to cancel a contract that is over.
<< Sounds like things are all lined up for production to begin. How long does it take once the cocoons are ready to be processed to go from cocoon to finished weaved product on industrial reels ready to be shipped? >>
Vietnam has NOT approved KBLB for production. They have only agreed to let KBLB do research. Research will probably take most of next year.
I'm not going to go in circles with you. You need to reread post #146330
I keep hearing (every week and every month), that this time it's different.
Sorry, but it isn't. It's the same old same old.
Every time a PR comes out, I hear about how great it is. But the PRs never say anything new. They are just a rehash of things that have been said time and time again over the last 12 years.
They have been trying to commercialize spidersilk for over 12 YEARS.
They have been trying to get eggs into Vietnam for over 5 YEARS.
They have been trying to fulfill an Army contract for over 2 YEARS.
Kim intentionally drags EVERYTHING out. He intentionally wants things to go slow. The longer it takes, the more money he makes. He couldn't care less about investors. They are a hindrance to him. He already neutered them by giving himself those 2 super voting shares. I'm sure he is thinking about how to get rid of them entirely. How many people on this board are in communication with Kim. I don't think that there is ONE. Doesn't that tell you anything?
<< You do know that we signed a deal with Vietnam. >>
They have had a "deal" with Vietnam since April. Nothing has changed.
<< You do know that the eggs are allowed to be imported. >>
They said that back in Jun. Nothing has changed.
<< You do know that production will begin very shortly >>
That is incorrect. The deal with Vietnam is for RESEARCH. The deal doesn't include ANY production.
<< They are working to create silks for every use the Army has. >>
They missed the delivery date back in Sep. The Army HASN'T extended the contract. Looks like that ship has sailed.
It looks like you are mixing up two totally separate conversations.
The 1st quote was in regards to the 2nd deliverable for the Army (which they haven't delivered yet).
The 2st quote was in regards to the 1st deliverable for the Army (which they delivered and were paid for).
I don't think that you have to worry about "poor old" Kim. LOL.
He makes money from KBLB in so many ways, that we don't even know the full extent of it. He gave himself 100s of millions of shares (worth $millions), 2 super voting shares (worth $millions), a $335K/year salary, a 6% pay increase every year (worth about $20K/year), a 20% bonus every year (worth about $65K/year), interest from the Texas property, interest from the loans, a company car... I am sure that he has received millions of $ dollars from other things that we have no any idea about.
I'm surprised that there is any money left for his employees. Oh wait, there isn't enough. He owes them money as well. LOL.
I don't believe that KBLB is worth investing in. I don't see it changing much in 1, 3 or 5 years.
The company has been public for about 12 years and it is not really any further along now than it was back then.
A few years ago, they got a small contract with the Army, but it looks like they blew it.
The only person making any money on this stock is the CEO. He gave himself 100s of millions of shares, two special voting shares, pays himself over $300K a year, and gives himself a 6% raise every year.
Yes, a PR filled with hopes and dreams that came out over a month AFTER the delivery date. In other words, after they had an entire year to fulfill the contract, THEY STILL DIDN'T EVEN HAVE A PRODUCT TO DELIVER when the delivery date came due. WOW! What an eye opener.
Now that the proverbial "stuff has hit the fan", Kim has magically said that they have a product and are asking the Army ("pretty please with sugar on top") to extend their contract for another 7 months. What a joke!
Talking about PRs...
Remember the PR from many years ago that claimed that "scale and sale" was possible? LOL.
Or when KBLB said that they were given "verbal approval" to bring in the worms last Oct (2017)?
Or when they said that the Texas property would produce Mulberry for all of their "domestic production"?
LOL
I bet if I went through last year's PRs, only a small % of the promises (< 10%) have ever been fulfilled.
KBLB just sells hopes and dreams.
And the really sad thing is that Kim is making millions upon millions off of that "product".
ARMY HAS NOT EXTENDED KBLB CONTRACT
As of today, the Army contract with KBLB has not been extended. The last modification to the contract was 19 Dec 2017. The contract still shows a delivery date of 21 Sep 2018.
This means that 2 months have passed since KBLB has asked for an extension, and the Army has (so far) not approved the extension.
This is a HUGE RED FLAG...
If the Army has ended relations with KBLB, then KBLB as a company is done.
This is from their latest 10Q:
<< KBLB has never ever been here before. We now have a signed agreement with Vietnam and have been given the green light to ship our eggs there, so no, we have never been here before. >>
We were in the EXACT SAME PLACE last July when KBLB said that they had "a signed agreement with Vietnam and have been given the green light to ship our eggs".
When you go to the supermarket and buy groceries, are you "funding" them? The answer is "NO"!
You are purchasing a product. The Army has purchased two products (DS and DS2). They aren't "funding" them.
To try to use the word "funding" to imply something that just isn't there is not being very honest.
Almost ALL companies do research. And that is why most 10Qs have a line for R&D spending. So to say that KBLB is going to need to do research says absolutely nothing. That is a line item on their expenses. Once again, the Army is NOT "funding" them.
That is incorrect.
The Army is NOT "funding" KBLB. Funding implies payments for research. The Army didn't pay KBLB for research. They paid them for specific products.
The Army signed a COST PLUS FIXED FEE CONTRACT. If you notice, Ben said "agreement" (which is a synonym for contract).
When you go into a store and buy their product, are you "funding" them? LOL. Of course not, you are buying a product. That is exactly what the Army did. They bought a product. And payment is conditional on delivery of that product. Sort of like COD (cash on delivery).
KBLB ONLY gets paid for work done. They don't get money on a monthly basis "just because". Some quarters they get paid and some quarters they don't. It all depends on whether they were able to accomplish anything towards their deliverable to the Army (for 220 lbs of custom spidersilk).
This is from their latest 10Q:
MikeCR:
<< As soon as the test is free from the Taub/Zalcberg litigation... >>
Yes, agreed. The Contribution Agreement is mostly about the Food Test.
But Taub doesn't seem to be asking for the Food Test. It just looks like he wants money at this point.
So it looks like ARYC will (eventually) get the Food Test back once the case is over (unless I am understanding it wrong).
Production in Vietnam will not be for many, many months (even in the best of scenarios).
Vietnam has NOT approved KBLB for production. They have only given them approval for "research".
MAYBE they will be ALLOWED to start production by the end of 2019 or even into 2020 (if we assume that there are NO other hurdles or delays).
First, they still have to ship the worms to Vietnam.
Second, the worms will need to be quarantined for a period of time (for at least a month).
Third, they still have to go through the REQUIRED research phase (which will take many months).
Once that is completed, THEN Vietnam will CONSIDER ALLOWING KBLB to move into production. This approval might take months for Vietnam's bureaucracy to make. And it will probably require additional laws to be drafted.
And IF they are finally approved, THEN they will need to build up the population of worms over MANY generations (which will take months).
It has been 7 months since KBLB received their business license in Vietnam. In that time, they haven't completed ANY of the steps outlined above.
The following news article was from May 2017:
<< ...producing dragon silk at scale will require thousands of silkworms — which in turn require a large acreage of mulberry trees not readily available in the United States. >>
Isn't that why KBLB bought 2000 mulberry trees and planted them in Texas? Isn't that why KBLB is paying Kim a monthly mortgage over the next 8 years for said land in Texas?
Whatever happened to that plan? We haven't heard a WORD about those trees since they were planted over a year and a half ago (in Mar 2017). I wonder if they all died?
Great post jetow.
Words are meaningless. Actions are what matters.
KBLB is big on words, but hollow on actions. They talk a big game, but rarely, if ever, deliver.
<< He also sent samples of DS2 to the Army I believe. >>
That is incorrect. Hopefully, KBLB will deliver DS2 to the Army before April 2019.
<< Dilution stopped in 2017. >>
No it didn't.
There has been dilution in both 2017 AND 2018.
<< so today it isn't silk that has been made for 5 thousand years? >>
ROTFL
It is amazing how one day the argument is about how easy it should be to produce tons of spidersilk and that mass production is just around the corner because silk has been produced for a long time, but then the next day the argument is on the exact opposite side of the fence and how difficult it is because it is new tech. LOL.
<< and what can Kim do to make the army test faster? >>
That is a very easy question to answer. He could have delivered the shootpack panels on or before Apr 2017 (when they were originally due). If he would have done that, the Army would surely have finished testing by now (over a year and a half later) and KBLB might have had that precious new Army contract they so desperately need.
But instead, KBLB failed to deliver on-time and made every excuse in the book (the reeler, the weaver, the candlestick maker...) to delay time and time and time again (for another year and a half) until they were finally able to figure out how to deliver a few small samples to the Army.
<< So what you are complaining about is that the army seems to have no issue with extensions but you do. >>
The Army definitely has a problem with extensions. If they didn't, they would have granted an extension for the 2nd deliverable (which was due months ago, in Sep 2018) a long time ago. But there is no evidence that the Army HAS granted the extension. Nor is there any evidence that they WILL grant the extension.
<< Before speculating on rolls and bolts wording... >>
No speculation at all. KBLB distinctly and directly stated that they made a "roll" in their PR. KBLB has never mentioned the word "bolt" in ANY of its PRs. Usage of the word "bolt" is for pumping purposes. If someone is going to claim that they made a bolt, then they might was well go back to saying that KBLB is creating tons of silk and storing it in a secret location. LOL.
<< If I'm not mistaken we only make fiber, not weaved finished goods >>
KBLB delivered shootpack panels to the Army (which was more than just fiber):
Fake news.
The real quote is:
"... there is no way you will be forced to use the proper terminology for the industry in question."
I think that you need to bring up your complaint with KBLB customer relations. After all, it was KBLB that used the term initially in their PR.
From KBLB's PR:
It wasn't a "bolt" of fabric. As you stated, a "bolt" is an industry standard term and is used to mean a very large fabric roll. Why would they produce a HUGE roll of fabric, when all it was needed for was to make a few small swatches of material? The answer is - "they wouldn't!" They would only produce enough for the samples that they needed to deliver to the Army (with maybe a little extra - just in case).
If it was a "bolt", then I can guarantee that Kim would have used that term in his PR. Kim is EXTREMELY careful in his wording. But he used the term "roll".
I never said that they had DS 2.0 for a year. I said "They have had over a year to produce 220 lbs. of custom silk...", which is a true statement and irrefutable (unless you don't believe KBLB's own statements).
KBLB & the Army signed an extension to the original contract in Jul 2017. The contract was for 220 lbs of customized spidersilk. They were supposed to deliver in Sep 2018. That means that they had 14 months (over a year) to make the delivery. They didn't. They are late (ONCE AGAIN). They had from Jul 2017 (the signing of the contract extension) until Sep 2018 (the delivery date). That is 14 months. 14 months is over a year. Going back to my statement: "They have had over a year to produce 220 lbs. of custom silk..."
On 30 Oct 2018, they announced that they finally figured out what they were going to send to the Army. That was over a month AFTER the delivery was due. They tentatively called the product DS 2.0. So they didn't even know what product they were going to deliver for 16 months! LOL
From KBLB's latest 10K: