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zero I agree that in the China space doing a satisfactory audit may be difficult because the powers that be may not cooperate. I remember CCME - advertising in express bus company. There an institution lost a lot of money. There was a real business but it was a fraction of what was claimed. TIO Inc is not a new company and the business is far from new. How do you explain the claimed cooperation with Visa? If the statements about this had been false Visa would have sued Tingo Group I assume. For this reason it would have been counter productive to make such a statement if it was false. What about the reference to the farmers' organisation in Nigeria and the other organisation that was also mentioned in the most recent PR? It is risky to present lies about big organisations I think.
zero In my view that is a false statement. SIAF is the basis for my view.
zerohedge In this case you make statements that are easily understood and that make sense. The latest PR seems too good to be true. The market seems to have acted in accordance with this view. The point is however that it should not be too difficult to find out if the information about the past is roughly correct or not. The numbers have been audited by a very well-known firm. What can the founder of Tingo Inc achieve for himself by brashly lying? He has a big stake in TMNA but there is little trading in those shares. TIO has promised substantial cash dividends starting as early as this year. Those will either be paid or not. If the numbers are totally false they will hardly be paid. Thus we will fairly soon learn if Tingo Group is a scam or not.
Before the merger was entered into last year the NASDAQ company claims to have spent a lot of money to ascertain if Tingo Inc was what it claimed to be. Was that filed information false?
thebear37 I totally disagree with you about SIAF. I followed that company for more than 10 years. I read quite a few of the posts of the poster you refer to. In my view there were a number of assertions made by that poster that were never proved to have been correct. There were other reasons for the failure of SIAF.
MM The same goea for me.
Ringrock The relevant sharecount right now is problematic. You seem to ignore Tingo Inc and its impact on the number of outstanding shares. I assume the pps pays attention to the expected number of outstanding shares before long if everything works out as expected. That sharecount is about 520 million shares.
I regard the way TIO has traded today as absurd. The news today is fantastic. The stock has traded as if this news is false in my view. TIO Group should have soared to more than 5 dollars in my view if the market had regarded today's news as true. Perhaps we will have to wait for the coming cash dividends for the stock market to take TIO and TMNA seriously? Paid cash dividends don't lie.
Punchinello You are right. I see this stock now as purhaps the best investment opportunity I hhead.ave seen if you look one or two years ayhead. I have seen no good explanation why the stock price has been more or less flat for weeks while the pps of the "sister company" TIO has roared ahead. For traders TIO has been the right company to be in. I suspect the same situation will prevail for some time. The volume of trading is way higher in TIO than in TMNA. But based on the information that is available about the facts and the terms of the coming reverse splits the pps of TMNA should have been about three times higher than it is now relative to the pps of TIO. But there is more uncertainty attaching to the shares of TMNA. The shares that it is expected to receive in TIO may or may not be distributed to the shareholders of TMNA. Some t hink the latter alternative is very negative. TMNA may initiate new activities in Africa on its own. This creates a degree of uncertainty. In my view the shares of TMNA should now have been at least 10 times higher than what it is.
bilvo I largely see eye to eye with you. I sold most of my shares in TIO too early and my discount was much smaller than yours when I purchased more shares in TMNA for my money. I now own almost 220,000 shares in TMNA.
bilvo
"Everything says short squeeze, volume huge, huge % gains up 60% in last 2 days, high interest rate, lack of shares to short. Look at that chart over 1 million to short before, even 2 weeks ago 700,000 now 6,000."
I find the reasoning here unconvincing. One million shares to short is repatively speaking peanuts. The reference is to legal shorting as far as I can see. Up to 27 million shares traded in one day. Tens and tens of millions of shares have traded in a few weeks.
My impression is that months ago management referred to shorting and that would be looked into. That was hardly legal shorting but illegal naked shorting. It would have seemed to make good sense to start naked shorting before the question of merging the two companies arose. The NASDAQ company had a dismal past with big losses. It made good selse to expect that this company would lose its NASDAQ listing and eventually founder. The short squeeze ought to have started many months ago the way I see it,
bilvo I see eye to eye with you about not being the end of the world if TMNA were to keep all the TIO shares for itself. I assume that these shares will be listed on a major stock exchange too. Moreover, there is the possibility that TMNA may start new activities in Africa.
That is the way EZ operates. I have seen it before in BDCO.
bilvo It is natural that shareholders' approval happens at a shareholders' meeting is it not? But I agree that it does not seem wise to give NASDAQ so short a period for approving series B, which involves a very high stake of BIO.
No, I have stated I sold all of them to buy shares in a that I regarded as way more attractive, which proved to be the case. If this investment opportunity had not occurred I think I would still have owned about 28,000 shares in this company. I thought that the potential share appreciation was four or five dollars per share.
shifty I would have preferred to have been a stock holder here for a week or two than for a year or two. Everything depends on how the crack spread evolves over time. Nobody knows for sure how it will. If it had been probable that the crack spread that obtained last year would continue for say 5 years this company would have generated huge profits. If the crack spread had been 15 to 20 dollars per barrel over that period of time prospects would have been pretty dismal I think. Other companies that are engaged in the same business are very lowly rated by the stock market.
Perfectson "So if the dividend of shares is to happen, the cutoff date should have seemingly already have happened - that's the part I'm confused about. I.e. if you buy now, you won't get any dividend of TIO.
Would like someone to opine on that part."
y
I don't understand what you are referring to when you mention dividend of shares. Two companies have merged and formed a new company. One of them is to own 75% of the new company - Tingo Group - and the other company is to own 25%. There is to be a reverse split in both stocks but by very different percentages.
I have seen no reference to a cutoff date in any filing. This implies the way I see it that if TMNA is to transfer any of its current and future shares in TIO to the shareholders of TMNA that date belongs to some now unknown future date. I assume it is nonsense to suggest that if yoy buy shates in TMNA now you will not get any shares in TIO. Either no shareholders in TMNA will get no such shares or all who buy until a cutoff date has been filed will get shares in TIO in my view.
KeepOn I agree that at some time this stock is likely to explode as far as the pps is concerned. The pps is now largely just a quarter of what it should have been in relation to the pps of TIO. This is a sort of explosion to the downside.
thebear37 What you write makes good sense up to a point at least. But right now the discrepancy in the pps between TIO and TMNA now seems to me to be too big to be fully explained by your ideas.
Perfectsson
"The way the 10Q it's clear, they intend to consolidate the company (TIO)." This does not prevent uncertainties. Some TIO shares could be distributed to the shareholders of TMNA and some could be sold to finance future activities of TMNA. It does not state how long TIO will be consolidated. There are thus lots of uncertainties.
thebear37 I agree with what you state about being cryptic about the plans for the TIO share distribution. It is even an understatement. The point is however that if no such shares are distributed the net assets of TMNA will increase by the value of the stake in TIO. You are right that TMNA could retain all the shares in TIO and then sell more or less of them to finance other activities. This creates some degree of uncertainty.
I don't think it is correct that we have no idea what future endeavors will be. I have read some things about this topic but I remember to little to mention anything. However, the African leader of this company has been extremely successful in his business eldeavors so far. The prospects of the African business of TIO seem extremely bright to me. It would make little sense to sell a large part of the TIO shares. The sale of some of those shares could finance other successful business in Africa. I assume TMNA will see to it that this stock gets a listing on a major stock exchange before long. There is thus both a downside and an upside regarding the present uncertainty.
shifty I suspect that giving it time is not a good idea if you refer to the middle of August or later. The crack spread is way down and that will presumably be reflected in the numbers for the second quarter.
down You could not be more wrong. I sold shares in the range you mention. The stock I bought is up from 1.2 dollars to 5.4 dollars now, which is more than a four-bagger. BDCO still has a long way to go to be more than a 4-bagger.
down What makes even stranger is that if the two cases of confirmation of the deal don't go through by the end of June, there are alternatives that seem to largely have the same effect. I therefore see little risk in being a shareholder in TMNA.
Any comments on this? "Because the Company is actively involved in acquiring operating assets or otherwise developing other operating businesses, its present activities are inconsistent with those of an investment company. Moreover, inasmuch as the Company expects to effect a conversion of the Series A Preferred Stock and the Series B Preferred Stock no later than June 30, 2023 and, therefore, consolidate the operations of TIO and its subsidiaries with the Company’s own operations, the Company has expressed its bona fide intent to be in a business other than that of an investment company."
Is there information of any current interest in the 10-Q?
Johnstown Are you able to supply a few facts to bolster your allegations? Is the African business fake too?
LowFloat Some 27 million shares traded yesterday. There were sellers for all those shares. Was it less profitaking than if shareholders sell so many shares that the pps is cut in half? By thr way, we ate not at the end of the week yet.
downthehatch The way I see it to focus on the USA refine capacity is simplistic. Here is why: "In 2022, the United States exported about 9.58 million b/d of petroleum to 180 countries and 4 U.S. territories. Crude oil exports of about 3.60 million b/d accounted for 38% of total U.S. gross petroleum exports." The implication is that some 6 b/d of refined petroleum products were exported. If refinery capacity is increased outside of the USA there will presumably be less demand for US refined products.
The shares of TIO seem to be traded almost as actively after the close as before. The latest price about 5.3 dollars. Will we be 6 dollars tomorrow?
7.5 million shares iIOs not monster volume with more than 1.2 billion shares. TIO has fewer than 170 million shares and traded more than 20 million shares. That is monster volume.
down There are more than 1.2 billion shares. I see no reason why market-makers choose to hold down the pps from a certain point in time some weeks ago.
Perfectson Today the problem is wny the shareholders of TMNA have sold quite a few million shares at a fraction of fair value in relation to TIO. Why?
aandt I have been acting stupidly myself. I first bought TMNA and I bought 70,000 shares one day. Then it was a very tight market and the pps soared by tens of percents as far as I remember because of my purchases. I bought some 26,000 shares of TIO too. When there arose a significant discount in buying shares in TMNA i started switcning horses. I assumed that the pps of TMNA would largely rise at the same pace as the shares of TIO. I was wrong. Now I have sold about 20,000 of my shares in TIO. Fundamentally I regard TMNA as less risky than the shares of TIO if the meger is not fully finalized when it comes to the shares. After all, it is the TMNA business that has generated the hundreds of millions of dollars in profit.
Somebody predicted a pps of 5 dollars for TIO today. If my eyes do not fail me we have already almost reached that pps.
thirdman I have just checked future crack spreads for jet fuel are turning higher but only marginally. The point is that for August the crack spread is about 18 dollars. That seems to result in marginal profitability.
down Regarding TIO I guess more investment funds will be possible buyers of this stock at a pps above four dollars.. Moreover, the big rise over a few weeks must have made a lot of possible investors aware of this stock and that the pps is still absurdly low in view of the fundamentals of this company.
Regarding TMNA roughly 3.5 million shares have traded now with little effect on the pps. This stock is a puzzle when it comes to the way it trades.
aandt There may be some hope in the fact that at long last the market seems to have become aware of TMNA. More than 2 million shares have already traded, which is almost 10 times as many as the number of shares that have usually traded in a day. There must be a big shareholder selling?
mz I think whst you claim is totally wrong. This has been pointed out before. You seem to forget that there are more than 1.2 billion shares in TMNA. I believe the right number may be less than 1.5 dollars as the right value of TMNA right now.
Dawg Thanks for iluminating those of us who have less knowledge than you have. TMNA's pps has started budging a bit.
Perfectson Admittedly, this is to some extent a safety net but it is not a satisfactory safetynet for the shareholders of TMNA. A 27% stake is far less than a 75% stake. It seems to me to imply that the pps of TMNA right now is more or less correct in relation to the pps of TIO. I find it hard to believe that the person who more or less created the African business would accpt this low stake for himself. Therefore my guess is that the deal would founder if this were the outcome. What would happen next? My guess is that the shareholders of TIO would be in very great trouble indeed and that the shareholders of TMNA would again own the part of TIO Group that has significant value after some time. But this is only my guess.