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Sooo....
Did I miss anything.....?
I agree dyna...
Reporter threw down the "it's a scam" declaration...I was merely trying to find out why it's a scam...
I think I am saying the same thing you are...CXO is pursuing the shares because they represent value, either present or future...not a scam..
Hi sheriff..
I did answer your 6220...
Hi Reporter...
It's me again...haven't heard back from you...
I had another thought on the "scam" topic....if Torvec is such a scam, why are the CXO guys fighting so hard in court to get their stock...?
Look forward to your response...thanks..
Wow..very aerodynamic looking...
Which end is the front..?
Artguy..pasted below a somewhat related article on ethanol...
The so called answers, really aren't the answers...
Ethanol: Truth and Lies
10 questions -- and answers -- about the fuel that's supposed to save the economy
By ALEX HALPERIN
With high gas prices making alternative fuels increasingly attractive, no alternative fuel has received as much attention as ethanol. Some hail the fuel, which can be derived from plants including corn, wheat, barley and sugarcane, as a savior of American energy policy, while others see it as a fad popularized by its heavily subsidized corporate backers.
The reality is complex. Though still a tiny industry compared to gas, ethanol could become a more prominent part of the U.S. and world fuel supply in coming years.
Still, as ethanol's public profile rises, there's plenty of misinformation swirling around and a host of questions. What exactly is ethanol? How is it made and used? And is it really a viable alternative to gas? Here's what you need to know now.
What exactly is ethanol?
The fuel is derived from plants through a fairly straightforward process. In one common method, corn is first ground into a fine powder, mixed with water, and then heated. An enzyme is then added to convert the mixture into sugars before yeast is added to ferment it. The resulting liquid, called "beer," is about 10% alcohol. A distillation process then separates the alcohol from the rest of the mixture before the remaining water is removed. The result is essentially pure alcohol. A small amount of gas is added to render the liquid undrinkable. Then the fuel can be used by itself or as a supplement to gasoline to power cars.
Ethanol has three advantages, at least in theory: It's renewable, it can be domestically produced, and it burns cleaner than gas. The world's largest producers of ethanol are the U.S., which makes it primarily from corn, and Brazil, which mashes the stuff out of sugarcane.
Ethanol Cars You Can Buy Now
Getting the Most from Your Fossil Fuel
Europe's Hottest Diesels
Easing Oil Dependence
Beyond high gas prices, why is everyone talking about ethanol?
It's becoming an increasingly important part of the fuel supply, and has the potential to become still more crucial. President George W. Bush and members of Congress have expressed support for ethanol use. And this spring, refiners in parts of Texas and the Northeast have been replacing a gasoline additive called MTBE (for methyl tertiary-butyl ether) with ethanol. MTBE, a chemical used to oxygenate fuel, can contaminate drinking water. Ethanol, which does not present the same danger, can serve the same purpose in fuel.
That's not all. The 2005 energy bill requires that the U.S. boost its ethanol production to 7.5 billion gallons by 2012, up from about 4 billion in 2005. This sounds like a whole lot of ethanol, but bear in mind, last year the U.S. slurped up almost 140 billion gallons of gas.
Are there any problems with ethanol?
Oh, yes. Ethanol can't travel in pipelines along with gasoline, because it picks up excess water and impurities. As a result, ethanol needs to be transported by trucks, trains, or barges, which is more expensive and complicated than sending it down a pipeline. As refiners switched to ethanol this spring, the change in transport needs has likely contributed to the rise in gas prices. Some experts argue that the U. S. doesn't have adequate infrastructure for wide ethanol use.
Also, ethanol contains less energy than gas. That means drivers have to make more frequent trips to the pump.
Doesn't producing ethanol on a large scale use a great deal of energy?
Yes. Some ethanol skeptics have even argued that the process involved in growing grain and then transforming it into ethanol requires more energy from fossil fuels than ethanol generates. In other words, they say the whole movement is a farce.
There's no absolute consensus in the scientific community, but that argument is losing strength. Michael Wang, a scientist at the Energy Dept.-funded Argonne National Laboratory for Transportation Research, says "The energy used for each unit of ethanol produced has been reduced by about half [since 1980]." Now, Wang says, the delivery of 1 million British thermal units (BTUs) of ethanol uses 0.74 million BTUs of fossil fuels. (That does not include the solar energy -- the sun shining -- used in growing corn.) By contrast, he finds that the delivery of 1 million BTUs of gasoline requires 1.23 million BTU of fossil fuels.
Producing ethanol could get more efficient soon as new technologies help farmers get more corn per acre of land and allow ethanol producers to get more of the fuel from the same amount of corn. The companies developing new corn technologies include chemical giant Dupont and Monsanto, which sells genetically modified seeds as well as chemicals for protecting crops.
So where can I find ethanol?
There's a good chance you're using it already. It's mixed into gas in many regions of the country including the corn-belt Midwest, and states like California and New York which had already banned MTBE. The regions making the transition this spring are the Northeast and parts of Texas.
Cars in the U.S. can normally drive on E10, a mixture of 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline, that is sometimes called gasohol. It's how Americans usually take their ethanol. Relatively few cars available here are "flex-fuel," meaning that they can run on much higher concentrations of ethanol. The fuel E85, which is 85% ethanol, is sold at some gas stations concentrated in the Midwest.
Is ethanol cheaper than gas?
Surprise, surprise, it isn't. The move this spring by more regions to use ethanol means that demand has spiked, driving up prices. On Monday, the New York harbor price was around $3 per gallon compared with about $2.28 for gasoline (before being mixed with ethanol). In other words, for now ethanol is helping to increase prices at the pump, not to push them down.
So ethanol production and distribution are also controlled by market forces, right? Only to a certain degree. In addition to heavily subsidizing the ethanol produced domestically, the U.S. government levies a 54 cent per gallon tariff on imports from other countries, such as Brazil, a lower-cost producer. This, of course, discourages the U.S. from importing cheaper ethanol.
Why not eliminate the tariffs?
Well, the idea behind the tariffs is to foster domestic production of ethanol. But amid the ongoing furor over high gas prices the idea of repealing the levy has gained momentum in Washington. Though it would probably annoy ethanol producers like agricultural giant Archer Daniels Midland, removing the tariffs could have some benefits. It would help ease price pressures and would likely encourage Brazil to boost its ethanol production. However, it's probably not a short-term solution.
Brazil is undergoing an ethanol revolution far more drastic than that in the U.S. Flex-fuel cars which can run solely on ethanol are widely available and the ethanol supply is short enough that the government recently reduced the mandatory ethanol content in gasoline from 25% to 20%.
From BusinessWeek
"Brazil is the model" for how ethanol can be brought into use, wrote Citigroup analyst P. J. Juvekar in a recent report. But while buying ethanol from Brazil could be useful in the future, it's not going to reduce the pain of a road trip this summer.
What companies stand to benefit from increased ethanol use?
There is a crop of American ethanol producers. ADM is by far the largest, pumping out about one-quarter of the U.S. total. MGP Ingredients is one of the many smaller companies involved. Verasun Energy and Aventine Renewable Energy, two other producers of note, have recently filed to go public.
What can we expect to change in the future?
At present commercial corn-based ethanol comes from corn kernels. One of the more exciting ethanol prospects on the horizon is cellulosic ethanol, which can be made from a number of plant by-products, including cornstalks. Although it's unlikely to be commercially available for at least a few years, cellulosic ethanol eventually could help substantially reduce costs. In other words, your car in the future could run on the refuse of farms across the U.S.
Bummer...
Too bad sheriff doesn't know anyone with connections to the Porsche auto people....
Reporter..hi it's me again...
Just a few follow on questions as you are pondering my previous questions...
As I look at Torvec, again from the "scam" perspective, I can't help wondering if you feel these items are part of the "scam"..
The 400 or 500 worldwide patents...
Senator Robach...
The guys that just put together the bond proposal...
Liadlaw...
The Peng Pu team that's been to Torvec several times..
The Nissan Racing Team...
The auditors from New York that audit the financials...
Just a few thoughts to ponder while you are formulating your response..
Hi reporter...
Always good to hear from you...
Curious about your scam accusation....I'm trying to be open minded and look at Torvec from a "scam" perspective...doesn't a scam typically yield a return for the "scammers"...? The management at Torvec is not collecting salaries, they arenot selling stock....I'm just trying to figure out how one can leap to the "scam" conclusion....any insight you can share would be appreciated..
I can name that alias abuser in...
one post...LOL
Hey, speaking of Porsche, since sheriff is developing a unique relationship with Phil, can sheriff see if he can get all of us a good deal on sunglasses..?
What in the world got into all of these guys at the same time..
My antenae is up, dot helmut in place...check, goggles...check, short repellent...check...sun screen..check...converted warrant detection wand...check
Ok I'm ready..
Another funny one...
did I miss something last night....dyna, dont you think think SECFAN sounds exactly like sheriff and invest111 and warrenB and...?
Want to guess what MM was on the sell side most of yesterday and at the open today?
nothing...??
not sure what you are talking about..?
This is from the CXO website...
"Our engagement is not complete until implementation is achieved and results are demonstrated"
There's that pesky implementation thing again..
Let's move on to other stuff...
"implementation"
That was kind of the important part of whole enegagement..my opinion is that the implementation part of what they were contracted for didn't occur..
kind of like the Miami Heat last night...good plan, no implementation...
That is strange...
So we know that he didn't say hi to us.....but what do you have to share from your conversation with Phil Fain for us...
Disclaimer: Any hidden messages contained in this or any other posts are accidental and/or unintentional and/or coincidental and should not be construed as anything but that, res ipsa loquitor, dominus vobiscum.....
LOL....
Interesting read...
The Real Costs of Owning a Hybrid
By EDMUNDS.COM EDITORS
As hybrid cars grow in number and type, consumer interest in owning one of these vehicles also expands. What initially only appealed to a select group of environmentalists is now of interest to a more mainstream group of buyers.
But let's face it: The sticker price of a hybrid vehicle is significantly higher than its gasoline-powered counterpart. Does the improved fuel economy offset the extra cost? What if that hybrid drivetrain breaks and you're saddled with a high repair bill?
We took a look at these issues -- and several others -- with hybrid owners to learn the real costs of owning one of these high-tech cars.
Higher purchase price
Hybrid cars cost an average of $2,500 to $3,000 more than comparably equipped gasoline vehicles. However, buyers can offset that premium with a federal tax credit for purchasing a hybrid vehicle as part of the Energy Policy Act of 2005. "The federal tax credit was definitely a selling point for me," says Michelle Anton of Los Angeles, California. Anton purchased her 2004 Toyota Prius after her Nissan Pathfinder was totaled in an accident.
The tax credit is meant to balance the additional cost of the hybrid vehicle, bringing it more in line with the price of a comparable gasoline vehicle. It replaces a tax deduction that was put into place beginning in 1999. The new tax credit differs from the previous deduction in a couple of key ways explained here. First, as a credit, it provides a dollar-for-dollar reduction in the tax bill, whereas the previous deduction only reduced owners' taxable income. The amount of the credit varies depending on the hybrid purchased and its level of fuel-efficiency, as well as other factors. The American Council for an Energy Efficient Economy has estimated the credit for all the hybrids currently available based on the Internal Revenue Service formula. Credits range from $250 for the Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra hybrid pickups to $3,150 for the Toyota Prius.
One hitch in receiving the tax credit is that the Energy Policy Act limits the number of vehicles from an automaker that can receive the credit. Once a manufacturer sells 60,000 vehicles, the credit gradually decreases over a period of 15 months until it is phased out entirely. While the act keeps the tax credit in effect until 2010, some automakers could conceivably sell their maximum number of qualifying vehicles much sooner. Toyota, for example, which sold about 130,000 Priuses in 2005, will likely reach the 60,000-vehicle maximum in the middle of 2006.
Several states also offer tax deductions for the purchase of hybrid vehicles. Lee Boughey of Highlands Ranch, Colorado, received a $3,600 state tax credit as well as a $2,000 federal deduction when he purchased his 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid in June 2002. "[The state and federal tax deductions] made me much more comfortable with purchasing the new technology because I was able to offset the cost with the deductions," says Boughey.
Insurance
Preliminary research by insurance companies indicates that drivers of hybrid vehicles have a lower risk of being involved in an accident than drivers of non-hybrid vehicles. As a result, insurers are starting to offer discounts to hybrid car owners. Currently, Farmers Insurance offers a 5-percent discount to hybrid vehicle owners in California, while St. Paul Travelers Insurance is offering a 10-percent discount to hybrid owners nationwide.
However, because insurance costs vary widely depending on where you live and your driving background, it was nearly impossible to determine if any of the hybrid owners we interviewed saw a change in premiums because they owned a hybrid.
As a result, we looked at the insurance rates in our True Cost to OwnSM calculations for all vehicles. TCOSM calculations provide an average insurance premium for a specific state the user chooses, taking into account vehicle make, model, body type and model year, but not personal information of the insurer. "Personal information, such as age, marital status, credit history, driving record and the garaging address of the vehicle are not considered and could greatly alter the actual premium quoted by an insurer," says Larry Laumann, executive director of data acquisition and research at Edmunds.com.
For comparison purposes, we looked at the estimated first-year insurance costs for an automatic transmission-equipped 2006 Honda Civic EX sedan versus those for a 2006 Civic Hybrid sedan, and the difference came down to $102. Based on Edmunds.com's calculations, the average consumer will spend about $1,754 to insure an EX sedan and $1,856 to insure the Hybrid sedan.
Repairs
Hybrid critics warn of expensive repairs associated with the hybrid-specific parts, such as battery packs. Interestingly, not a single hybrid owner we spoke with expressed concern about this. "I'm not the type of person who would have purchased [a hybrid] the first year out, but by now I feel pretty confident that any kinks have been worked out," says Prius owner Anton.
Not everyone shares this opinion, though, so we contacted Honda, Toyota and Ford to get the scoop on possible long-term repair issues for each hybrid. All the hybrid-specific components in every hybrid vehicle currently on the market are covered by warranty for 8 years/100,000 miles or 10 years/150,000 miles, depending on the state, but these components have been shown to have a much longer life span in testing.
"We've done testing on three continents, in a variety of terrains and climates," says Bryan Olson, Ford Escape Hybrid marketing manager. "We feel confident that the hybrid-specific components will last for the life span of the car."
Honda, the first manufacturer to offer hybrid cars for sale in the U.S., has watched its customers' vehicles carefully. "Our Insight has been on the road since 1999," says Robert Bienenfield, senior manager of product planning at American Honda. "We've done a lot of testing as well as monitoring our customers' highest-mileage vehicles, and so far haven't seen any adverse results."
Like the other automakers, Toyota has also done a lot of testing of its hybrid-specific components. "We've looked at all the things that put stress on batteries, such as the discharge/charge cycles and extreme temperatures," says Dave Hermance, executive engineer for environmental technology at Toyota. The company reports that its battery packs have lasted for more than 180,000 miles in testing.
Regular maintenance
Most hybrid cars do not require any additional regular maintenance on the hybrid-specific components. One exception is an air filter on the battery system of the Ford Escape Hybrid, which needs to be replaced every 40,000 miles.
The gasoline engine in a hybrid vehicle requires the same maintenance that it would if it were the only power source driving the vehicle. That means oil changes every 5,000-10,000 miles depending on the vehicle and the driving conditions.
In ordinary vehicles the brake pads need to be changed regularly. But because of the regenerative braking systems in hybrids, the brake pads typically last much longer. In regenerative braking systems, the electric motor becomes a generator and captures energy that would be lost when the vehicle's brakes are applied or when the vehicle is coasting. The energy is transformed into electricity, which recharges the batteries and can be reused to increase fuel-efficiency. Additionally, reduced heat means less wear on the brakes.
"We've seen customers go 85,000 miles before they needed to replace their brakes on their Prius vehicles," says Toyota's Hermance.
Fuel economy
Hybrid buyers are often disappointed that they don't get the fuel economy numbers listed on the window sticker in their regular driving. "I just love my Honda Civic Hybrid, but I have been a bit disappointed that the gas mileage isn't better," says Ivey Doyal of Atlanta, Georgia.
To be sure, there is a discrepancy between the EPA's fuel economy ratings, listed on the window sticker, and the "real-world" results most drivers experience. This is true regardless of the type of vehicle you drive, because the testing procedure the EPA uses to generate these numbers is outdated and not indicative of the way most Americans drive today. The EPA has made adjustments to its calculations to try to compensate for this. Even with these adjustments, however, the numbers still often differ from the real world. "We've seen where the typical driving style can be as much as 20-percent less than the EPA fuel economy number," says Bienenfield.
While all vehicles are affected by this discrepancy, hybrid vehicles appear to be more affected by it. "For example," explains Bienenfield, "a vehicle that has a fuel economy rating of 20 mpg may only get 18 mpg, while a vehicle that is rated at 50 mpg may only get 45 mpg. This seems like a bigger issue for the more fuel-efficient vehicle, but in reality both vehicles are off by 10 percent."
In the informal survey we did with Honda and Toyota hybrid owners, fuel economy numbers ranged from 33 to 49 mpg on average, which reflected many driving styles and a wide range of commutes. While these numbers are significantly lower than the EPA ratings, all the owners we interviewed were happy overall with the fuel economy they were getting.
Perhaps what is most misleading about the EPA's fuel economy ratings is that they don't show how widely numbers can vary based on an individual's typical driving route. "Short trips are the harshest on fuel economy, so anyone who drives just a few miles in his typical trip will see lower mpg numbers than someone who drives, say, 15 miles to work," says Bienenfield.
Our unscientific poll showed these results as well. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, resident Jen Bannan typically drives just a few miles in each trip and, as a result, had the lowest fuel economy of those we interviewed, averaging 33 mpg in her 2002 Toyota Prius. "Is the lower fuel economy disappointing? Sure, but I'm still filling up less than I did in my old car and the Prius is the best car I've ever owned," she said.
At the opposite end of the spectrum, Civic Hybrid driver Boughey and Honda Insight owner Dana Dorrity of Tivoli, New York, have commutes of 60 and 50 miles one way, respectively, on roads with rolling hills. Both had the highest fuel economy of those we spoke with, 47 mpg for Boughey and 49 mpg for Dorrity. Poughkeepsie, New York, resident Mary Koniz Arnold said she has no trouble averaging 50 mpg in her 2001 Toyota Prius on longer trips, but gets closer to 40 mpg during her one-way commute of 10 miles.
"To be fair," says Toyota's Hermance, "there is no way any two tests will give the range of consumer exposure in terms of driving conditions and temperatures. We are really measuring the wrong thing. Since you don't get to choose how many miles you drive, we should be measuring the gallons consumed."
Costs vs. benefits
Since hybrids only have been on sale for less than a decade, it's still a bit early to assess all the long-range costs of owning one of these vehicles. On the surface, it appears that the added costs are offset by the benefits such as the federal tax credit and the improvement in fuel economy. Of course, that all depends on your individual driving habits: If your mileage is low, that probably means you're not saving money over a traditional gasoline car.
Thus far, maintenance and repair costs for hybrid cars seem to be average or slightly below average. Major repair issues related to hybrid-specific components on the cars are virtually nonexistent.
Will the benefits outweigh the costs in the long term? That all depends on factors like maintenance and repair costs and whether they remain low as the cars age. Another consideration is the owner himself and his ability to get optimum fuel economy gains.
For the hybrid car owners we spoke with, any additional costs were outweighed by their love for their cars. Everyone we interviewed adored their hybrid, and many said that they would be unlikely to go back to driving a traditional gasoline-powered vehicle.
Shelly Cohen of Seattle, Washington, drives a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid and says she will consider one of the larger hybrids for her next vehicle to accommodate her two growing children. "When it comes time to trade it in, I'll be looking at the hybrid Toyota Highlander or the hybrid Honda Accord," she says. "I'll need something bigger by then, but it will be good to know that I can still get the environmental and the fuel economy benefits of a hybrid."
Spin..??
The following excerpt is from the 2/20/04 CXO-Torvec agreement which took a while to find..it's on page 80 in the 10K dated 4/14/04.....Gee, I wonder what would have caused this reference to CXO's "unique relationship with members of the Porsche automotive family" to be placed in the CXO-Torvec contract...interesting, no mention of any type of compensation for selling Torvec Eyewear...If you are going to debate anyone on stuff like this, at least do a little checking.....
"(iv) Both parties recognize that CXO has a unique relationship with members of the Porsche automotive family. For this reason, in the event if any or all of the business and/or assets of Client are licensed in any manner or sold (whether by means of merger, sale of shares, sale of assets or otherwise) at any time to the Porsche family of companies or any affiliate of any member of the Porsche family of companies then Client shall pay a finders fee equal to five percent (5%) of the Total Consideration for such transaction in addition to any other fee payable under this Agreement including, without limitation, the fee payable under paragraph 3(c)(iii), above. Such fee shall be payable at the closing of such transaction based upon Total Consideration received. For these purposes, "Total Consideration" shall mean the total economic benefit derived by Client or its shareholders from such transaction, including, without limitation, all cash, assets, or debt, equity or equity equivalent securities, covenants not to compete and employment agreements either to be acquired or retained by Client and/or its shareholders as a result of the transaction. Fees payable pursuant to this paragraph 3(c)(iv) shall be paid in full at closing in cash or by check; provided, however, that if part of the Total Consideration is to be received after the closing and is of an unspecific and uncertain amount (i.e., not a set and stipulated number) as of the closing (as for example in the case of price adjustments) or is of a contingent nature (such as, "earn-out" payments or royalties) (individually, "Future Payment"), then payment of that portion of the fee attributable to the Future Payment shall be due within ten (10) business days after the Future Payment is received by Client or its shareholders, as the case may be."
thats what the whole lawsuit and appeal are about...
Did the BOD "give away the farm"....? Putting contracts like that together relies on some anticipation of delivering the goods...if delivered, as I said, good deal and great for all of us...It's a little early for your co-worker to be throwing his hands up with the touchdown CXO signal..
let's let the legal process work it's way thorugh to completion..either way now, my opinion remains that we got a new website to look at....Torvec signed an appropriate deal, but with the wrong people...
I view it differently dyna..
Had CXO delivered a deal, it would be a reasonable expectation for them to be paid millions based on the contract...if they delivered, I would view it as a good deal...we all know that didnt happen dont we..
Your pal sheriff alludes to the CXO portrayal of themselves on their website as full disclosure of who they are..blah blah blah..thats comical....does anyone think that it was their website claims that made the TOVC management team go gaga over siging these guys up...? One example that is public is in the filings...Does anyone remember that in the Torvec filings from when CXO was brought on, the filing indicated that CXO was connected to the Porsche family...FYI that stuff just happens to be on CXo's website.. Porsche...thats the auto industry last time i checked...
I can visualize a consulting group in front of a prospective client cliaming connections all over the place to get their foot in the door.....
In this case, how many CXO connections panned out for the Torvec shareholders....so the way i see it if they delivered, good deal....they didn't
Just curious...
" they never set THEMSELVES out to be automotive experts"
Sheriff....how do you know what they set THEMSELVES out to be when pitching their wares to Torvec...?
My opinion.....
The CXO guys got paid millions and what the shareholders got for it was a new Torvec website...
Wow..you guys are having some fun now...Whoo boy!!
I'm on vacation....catch you in a week or so...enjoy yourselves
"Seems like they too like to post the negative"...
Sad but true...not even a whisper about the Laidlaw/Robach/Bond information from either..
Just read the RBJ piece....looks like it's another Pulitzer in the making for Velvet Spicer..
Interesting find Torque..
Looks like there is an appeal keeping things alive..
The whole warrant discussion brings up a question that I have had for months....when the cxo group filed the form 5's, there was no mention of the 560,000 or so warrants that had already been exercised.....what happened to those shares...not only did the numbers in the form 5's not add up, it appears that the shares associated with the converted warrants seem to be unaccounted for from what I can tell....
the mystery continues Torque...
Sheriff...your not alone....
I just heard on the radio that Natalie Maines from the Dixie Chicks doesn't like Jim Gleasman either...
"Final farewell from Dyna".....?
You've had more farewell tours than the Eagles...LOL
Did someone say short..?
I don't know why, but I still crack myself up with that line...thanks for the setup atl....
Interesting find beach..
Soon, replacing the transmission with an IVT will be the route to take, rather than replacing the whole bus...
Interesting comment you made gunk....
"The company insiders own too much stock. When it was between $5-10 they could have sold a bunch to fund a lot more activities"....the insiders get criticized for selling shares and now for NOT selling shares..!
Where did you get the info that the Chinese are coming this week...?
Until we meet again...
Have a nice summer dyna....
well said Lynx....
IF that theory is correct....
My opinion is that we would see more balanced trading....of course, if an "event" occurs that creates demand for the shares, covering would ensue to close out that position, as well as new buyers taking the place of the low cost accumulator. I think the low cost accumulator steps aside and lets the new buyers complete their strategy by running it up....what a payday that could be for them.....
In that scenario, we all win, except what remaining short position had to be closed out under stampede conditions....
It is a riddle dread....
Somewhere out there there is a player with a plan and has a UBS connection...they have participated in 1/3 of the volume for roughly the last 10 months...thats around 1,500,000 shares....UBS has been more active on the buy side...estimate from my observation is about 75% buy side...
Thats around 1.2 million shares bought at an avergae of around $2 bucks.......why...? Covering...?????? Could very well be....or accumulation as dread just referenced...if it's accumulation, that 1.2 million shares falls neatly under the SEC 5% disclosure rule(I think it's 5%)
Could some party have aggregated just enough shares under the radar at these very low prices, so they would not exceed the reporting percentage and be able to make a killing on the run up from a deal..At 30,000,000 shares outstanding, if someone or some company acquired 5%, that would be 1.5 million outstanding shares of TOVC, it would have to be reported to the SEC...???? For some of you who don't buy into the short theory, the accumulation theory might get your attention...again, it's speculation, but if it's true, who and why and maybe more important, what do they know....
I absolutely love this stuff...!!
Now that was funny...!!
I am still laughing at that one...good job Job
MM update....
Our favorite MM is sitting on the bid and ask as I write this...
Sheriff...your out of jail and on 3 posts per day probation...!! Congrats..!!
Welcome back.......hope you are enjoying the recent news
Survey response...
Male.....(occasional cross dresser though)...have never sold a share of TOVC...