the poll posted by Gullible Fish' will be even better if we also post our reasons. I say REAL, NOT SCAM. My reasons? 1) continuing to file with SEC; 2) having a seriously credible securities litigator defending in lawsuit; 3) navigating in troubled waters

I hope @Chompiee is right. My sense of the press release was as if someone had edited out the paragraph explaining the funding.... The "missing paragraph" could have been removed for many reasons, but, reading the press release just leaves that sense, for me, that the explanation of the secured financing got removed before posting....

some material source of non-debt financing....

I have to agree in part with @igotthemojo because the gap in the press release is the lack of information about the securing of funds. Okay, I get that many are excited by the points in the press release, but, the gaping hole of information about funding is a tough one to defend.

what if the purpose of the reverse split is not, as we have all assumed, for either raising capital or for an up-listing qualification?

what if the purpose of the reverse split is to reduce expenses by forcing out the positions held and necessarily required for votes and other formalities by the very smallest of shareholders?

if someone has many fold a multiple of 40 shares, as probably everyone who posts here does have, no issue simply reducing share count but at higher valuation. For someone who somehow either retained or only acquired pocket change worth of penny stock, while that qualifies to be "publicly traded" maybe that is burdensome to maintain with formalities for shareholders?

Reducing share count from hundreds of millions to tens of millions, and qualifying for more institutional stakeholders?

I want to retire, 2, but firstly, let me thank Want2Retire for posting that intriguing article about the Spiber and the Moon Parka. The most surprising element of which, for me, is that their first fabric model wound up loving to shrink when wet. That, unfortunately, was not practical as a product at any price. They said that they reduced the shrinking a lot but not entirely, and, reduced the cost a lot, but not to a disclosed pricing level. At best a novelty or collector market niche, right?

How much damage can an incredibly strong but shrinks-when-wet fabric do? Say, I am in California, I imagine a surfboard bag that might shatter the board? Oh, wait, underwear for soldiers, .....

he posted at http://sinoagrofood.investorroom.com/sec-filings that the filing will be delayed by five days with one of the reasons because of the litigation and the other reason because of the auditors. This could go many ways. My prediction is a surprise to the upside.

is anyone else amazed, today, at a trading volume of about four to five thousand shares (about seven to maybe nine hundred dollars)?

hey, rayovac812, the website for kblb, https://www.kraiglabs.com/news/ has been updated today. that stated, in part and I gladly quote the exact two paragraphs:

The Company will contract with a nearby reeling facility to convert the cocoons into finished silk yarn, which has already been committed to a textile manufacture for further fabric and product development.

The Company plans to continue to expand its throughput, over the next several quarters, as it builds up its capacity, expand operations, and prepares to ship materials to its collaborators and potential customers.

the ten days have passed, and we should be reading the report from RYU today if WHOAstocks was right on timing following his/her post on 8th November. The presumption is that MORE stores will have opened, but how many and for how many days of sales? price per share has drifted lower. volume of shares trading is light. the answer to your question is likely to be the same as last report, goal of about five stores opening each of coming two or three years. all in top drawing venues. a few more celebrity ambassadors (whether in media or sports) might be expected. maybe testing more fabric with special effects. deign award wins? charity fund-raisers, trainers or chef events for the "community-building" at the store venues?

I will be (pleasantly) surprised if any news moves the price per share, yet. all elements of execution look well thought out. I have only visited inside of one store (so far) and have been checking out the venues not yet open but promoting great signage. Sadly, the opening dates have slipped by half a year, so, days of sales per store seems a worthy measure to be taking. I expect to visit more before deciding about adding to my position in long shares. at pennies per share, the number of shares adds up. have to wonder, though, how soon before a reverse split in future to bring out of penny stock territory?

The meaning is clearly development, not sales. Delivery to at least one company and if only one, most likely Polartec. Heartbreaking for those having expected sales is that the next portion of today's news, press release, is more important for disclosing that the REEL will be prepared nearby (by a different facility, different business) then the reel (and many future ones, we all hope) will be shipped for the development of products. The development not yet having been completed is where so many of the comments here have now been exposed as delusion

imagine when development does advance? nice. but, still in development. many steps before recurring revenues on products in the market. I think those expecting clothing are in the right. I also HOPE that maybe a cell phone cover containing spider silk could be an early entrant

interesting point about investor disclosures getting messed up. china credit markets are as bad a mess as SIAF itself, which is why I am both surprised the share price has not fallen lower, and, I am surprised that the "lottery ticket" role for shares is not a more widespread view.

Things are bad everywhere in the financial world that intersects SIAF, No NOT because of SIAF, but, truly the kicking of the victim when already down.

I am still pretty excited to be a shareholder in SIAF and still think, given the context, that honesty might still be found despite all the shocking comments against the key manager.

Also, add to that the newest reportable developments: (1) that Hong Kong is shut down from normal functioning by protests amid warranted fear of mainland action, while any capital that can flee has flown away, and (2) debts are not being paid by many Chinese domestic business borrowers, even government entities, and some borrowers have officially instructed employees to take out personal loans so that their own employees can lend those funds to their employers to cover enough of the defaulted loans to pass accounting review on behalf of the lenders. The phrase zombie corporations from Japan takes on a more frightening context, doesn't it?

will the whole edifice collapse and take our equity out with the draining of the system, or, will we have a stake in the next takeoff? If the postings by zerohedge are correct that there are no assets, no turnover, and no operations, our share value is toast. if, however, there are assets and turnover and operating aquafarming and more, then, I think we have our lottery tickets. Lottery tickets that, on fewer than 900 shares at two dimes a share, were up over 11% in value today, seem to be less than liquid! I sure wish I could be more comfortable than I am, but, as Jack Nicholson's character in the movie Chinatown learned, nothing is at it seems

official panic-driving news out today: another patient with plague -- suspected vector was having eaten raw meat in Mongolian folk tradition. The border between Mongolia and China should have been booming again by now; have to wonder if fear of plague crossing the border will be harmful to the remaining interests of MNGGF?

if I had to bet money on what the big volumes of spiber brewed proteins are going into, I would say one of the listed ones on their website, and, my choice of the one most likely to be earliest in volume sales is automotive, but I am not anxious to bet on whether that is the layer in car seats or a component of tires.

someone else's guesses: http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/spider/page4.htm

spiber website, 3/4 down the page at https://www.spiber.jp/en/endeavor listing in what might be the order anticipated by spiber: apparel, automotive, medicine, construction, sports, tires, furniture, robotics, and aerospace

yes! I did say last year that I encouraged him to pursue getting on the Board of Directors, and, yes, as a shareholder, I will gladly cast my votes for RealDutch!

thank you, RealDutch! a pretty discouraging set of explanations in that long disclosure, covering back-to-back years of unfavorable weather catastrophes with failures to motivate employees and loss of financial controls. Disgraced management still in charge?

Any evidence of lessons learned?

Is there progress evidenced in satellite images?

The catastrophic outcomes of 2017 and 2018 are arrested by lack of money, eh? The chances of upside, though, are depending on funding success, PLUS employee supervision success, PLUS build out and operational successes and fish growing success. None in reach?

Black_Knight and Emilez are guessing, but, whatever the answer, the results do stink. Was the company, as Emilez posted recently here, just too hurried to take the risk of a bigger deal than it knew how to manage? I am wondering why such a horribly bad deal was entered? Almost stinks enough, just from the items set forth by Black_knight in his recent posting here, to think that taking on aqua farm 4 was intentionally done for one purpose: to ruin the future by getting into a deal where the pollution was too high, the costs of staying in too high, and the size too dangerous? Such hugely negative risks that would overwhelm past success, even prevent credibility for past successes? Intended to make it impossible, ever after, to let anything good be seen from the rest of the succeeding fish farms? I don't believe suicidal business choices were accidental, but, I sure hope someone comes up with a business explanation that rebuilds faith for those of us long SIAF.

Why would contamination be accepted? Just wildly speculating, but, does that mean that SIAF thought it had know-how not merely to operate cleanly, but, to operate with a net cleaning of what was starting as contaminated?

If so, wouldn't that contamination and the risk of not succeeding to improve the environment by the means brought to treat it mean a bargain purchase had to be on the table? This is the bone I cannot get past. Aqua Farm 4 should have been structured as providing major funds to SIAF for its know-how.

The deeper I dive, the worse this mega farm or aqua farm 4 dealing stinks, as bad as stories about deals with organized crime....

bravo, yes, Emilez, you found the article that I had heard about. Yes, you are correct that the head count is only two; but, the message must have spread to every English teacher in China, right? The company that placed English teachers in that article also said it has shut down from doing so, again, a message that cannot be any clearer, right? I do not think it is a tiny part of what is going on. In perspective, I have to wonder, though, and want to hear anyone else's opinions about this: whether the cooperatives in China that are doing business with SIAF are aware that the entity had a reverse merger into a Nevada (USA) based publicly traded entity? Given the "trade war" between China and the USA, is that a worry? Given the China assertion of control in Hong Kong, and the role of Hong Kong for TRW and other Chinese joint ventures within the SIAF dealings, is that a worry? I still have expectations that the pork crises in China will benefit SIAF. I also have expectations that the weather impacting agriculture will sometimes spectacularly help (not only hurt) SIAF. I also keep resisting buy-in to the zerohedge postings here on this message board.

What is the message about SIAF?

Here is the bone stuck in my throat -- if SIAF know how is as good as it reads, then how did aqua farm 4 turn out such a disaster? Is the model taking more risks than I understand? Is the know how -- poof -- missing?

this morning brings a lot of news impacting SIAF or those posting on this SIAF message board. The thread about teaching English in China (and visiting the SIAF locations to update those of us unable to travel or teach) has the news of Americans teaching English now in detention as security risks. Those of us hoping for Hong Kong securities markets to be thriving faced the news of physical beatings of organizers seeking to enlarge or defend freedoms. Not any of these reports are of an environment encouraging for us as investors. In direct financial news? More liquidity crises reporting. Also, not encouraging. I think I need to go to a fish restaurant today!!!

I am among those hoping that the insider named as director is someone designated by the source of equity capital infused with that announcement and coupled with that name of a product maker starting volume use of the spider silk. WebSlinger has been right in almost all the posts I have read so far, and, that makes me ask you about your expectations for that next announcement to join the board?

I was not a shareholder until after most hopes were broken. I am wondering if anyone can share the decision making process steps that went into aqua farm 4? as far as I can figure out from reading old posting and old financial disclosures, every failure can be explained, from the beef butchering and dairy operation right through to the plantation and the renting out of land to someone else for raising eggs. what I cannot find answered is what was the reason to enter into what became the spectacular failures at AF4. Choices, process steps, rogues along the way?

I think that postings from Snow, RealDutch, ChingCHarles, AndrewFlying and Mr. Fister (sorry if I missed crediting others) have all been nailing the model that seems to be a loose linked cooperation but a common financial reporting for the different highly speculating agricultural ventures. I am not going to disagree with those saying that staying invested in SIAF is no better than holding onto a lottery ticket. I want to, but, it is ringing true. I wish that we saw a magical success, say, because of the pork crisis. But, it seems the accumulated problems don't get any easier to overcome. Does success come from a learning curve with the cooperatives? Do they only share liabilities but no longer know-how? Extremely difficult to be optimistic with the information as well as the history. A bargain opportunity? What would be necessary (and what is likely) if turnaround towards success? Trading division success? Recovery in prices of beef? Recovery in demand for fertilizer? Where is evidence of successful fish pond production that ought to underlie our optimism? Green ponds?

I like when there are postings of satellite images of the sites. I wish we had live cam streaming available. So many things seem capable of going right in the field. So many things seem to be failed. Nature has cycles that sometimes hurt but also and often help agriculture. The basic model still attracts my investment interest. The experience so far makes me suspect maybe there is a bargain opportunity. The failings and busted expectations and ongoing accumulating liabilities are enough to make anyone take the loss or perhaps, back to the beginning point, just ignore that there is a lottery ticket in the portfolio

Rayovac812 brilliantly contributed the data point that two years ago, in October of 2017, kblb disclosed having tripled domestic capacity. Many have speculated that domestic production has been ongoing, others have warned of assuming any deliveries because of the lack of reported contracts/deliveries/feedback from any production. Two years AFTER having tripled domestic production without material disclosures? Anyone having had a field trip to Michigan who is able to say what happens, do mulberry leaves come in the door, do boiled cocoons go out the door?

Did someone post about Texas and if so is that only for mulberry leaf production?

Is production really best measured as worms being shipped out with genes edited to produce to specifications of a customer?

we are a month out from when QuartersForShares posted wondering if Halloween would see evidence of preparation for being prepared for the uplisting, and two weeks from now that answer will be history. The independent directors were named. Check. Financing? Not yet. Unchecked. Road show to investors? Hmmmm, we heard one will happen, and, as others correctly reminded us there is no IPO, but maybe there will be (not an initial, but some kind of) an additional public offering?

h, oh, oh, hold your ribs against damage while laughing, what if there is going to be a reverse merger with spiber going public as a merger with kblb?

your link is garbled. I could neither open nor get a useful search result. Please resubmit

I truly do like rayovac812 pointing out lack of data on the competing material! I don't recall who posted, but I also liked the postings that high molecular weight molecules are not available from the single cell fermentation process as a competing choice. However, that a key eight decade vendor to Toyota entered a joint venture for spiber to provide material for automotive markets is enough to move the needle for me, moving the needle far lower than holy grail of materials.

Toyota has Lexus as one of its brands. Lexus used spiber material in a shock absorbing layer for car seat prototyping. Someone mentioned likely use in car tires. I am hopeful the market is great for everyone, but, the idea of blending in what goo provides is looking to satisfy more markets than I had expected before today.

hmmm, dams empty sounds like lost revenues, but, green stuff could be harvested. Remember that the whole ecosystem pitch for SIAF includes environmentally clean and revenues from different products.

Darryl T, just a quick context refresh, you were asking if kblb spider silk yarn, BY ITSLELF, is the better product than a theoretical blending with an example of kevlar, and I posted about the tv news show on spiber today, Then I said that spiber claims success demonstrated to be commercially viable in process and in end products. In 2015 spiber raised substantial capital from investors.I concluded by posing these two key facts driving hopeful investors in kblb. (1) does brewed protein have an absolute advantage or disadvantage, in physics or chemistry, against silkworm produced fibers? (2) does brewed protein have an absolute advantage or disadvantage, in economics or performance, against silkworm produced fibers? While you are hoping that the answer to both my questions is negative, the real spectrum of answers is back to your original question, namely, is a blend (likely win for spiber as well as kblb in the market) or is exclusive spider silk yarn the win for kblb investors alone? If a blend leaves multiple winners, as today's news broadcast implied, that diminishes the market potential hyped for kblb

a key vendor to toyota entering a joint venture with spiber, and, Lexus having made drivers seats with a layer of spiber's brewed spider silk protein for protection has me seeing victory for blended use

hundreds of employees in Japan are nearly four years into delivering brewed protein that is somehow being fabricated into test articles, prototypes and deliverables sufficient to justify having employees in Thailand with plans for commercial production in 2021. What if full spider silk yarns are useful or even necessary for only limited end products? what if brewed protein blended into components of end products is the market spiber fulfills?

optimistically, I guess that spiber having fast and early production being delivered for users to test MIGHT increase demand for later production from kblb, eh? pessimistically, the idea that brewed protein having properties of spider silk can be delivered, prototyped into products and blended for targeted uses while cost breakthroughs are being sought....

the link from WebSlinger is worth reading!! Note that in 2016 Lexus prototype uses the spiber shock absorbing material in a layer on car seats. They already have had successful prototypes in clothing and in automotive uses. They list a lot more to come...

hmmmm, their joint venture is with a supplier to Toyota....

hmmm hmmmm they are hoping for cost reduction breakthroughs in each successive experiment in their labs, as cost is the driver for larger dollar markets....

critics of spiber should be cautious, as the reason for the moon parka was to prove use of commercial fabric processing to create a consumer acceptable end product

sorry, I could not find the link to the broadcast on spiber. The last link was similar but from June. The one from this morning does not include more than the name of the founder in the segment, see https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/tv/directtalk/20191015/2058553/


one more key fact from today's broadcast that has yet to sink in -- the claim that their cycle from identifying the characteristics they want to deliver to their customer until volume production of that particular brewed production is a couple of hours for each doubling of production of the brewed protein target.

if you need it faster, they are the go to supplier was the clear message.

The spiber website says they have hundreds of employees in Japan and seven in Thailand. The website also mentions another entity, a joint venture. https://www.spiber.jp/en/about

kevlar is the current standard, so replacing it completely is a less likely early adoption than someone competing with a blend of spider silk and kevlar, right?

on the news tonight there was a segment about Viet Nam relying on technology from Korea, but the bigger part of what caught my attention was the report that trade with China and the USA comprises 30% of its exports. Interestingly, one of the featured industrial exports was yarn.

But, moments later, a very very very long news segment was the bio on the creater of brewed spider silk proteins. They momentarily flashed its being used in the moon parka, but that was not the focus of the segment. See https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/tv/bizstream/20190608/2074041/

Commercially, "volunteers" helped with the birth of this technology, as they emphasized the know how of textile and fermentation engineers in Japan who, in 2007 were already in their 70s and 80 and gave help to the grad students who created "spiber." the history of the company and the bio of the founder were well presented. The big news in my view is that they have a Thai factory opening in 2021 with commercial instead of lab volumes of production. They are already producing, and delivering to customers since 2014, lab scale volumes of materials that rival both yarns and hard plastics. The materials in 2007were dust sized. The materials in 2014 were looking commercially viable. In 2015 they raised substantial capital from investors. An impressive presentation that did not touch on the two key facts driving hopeful investors in kblb. (1) does brewed protein have an absolute advantage or disadvantage, in physics or chemistry, against silkworm produced fibers? (2) does brewed protein have an absolute advantage or disadvantage, in economics or performance, against silkworm produced fibers?

if some version of spider silk from KBLB is better than kevlar, maybe the first sale is to the maker of products using kevlar who will introduce a blend, a safe entrant in that market with claims of superiority to kevlar alone?

the blend can exploit pricing at the ratio that has measured advantages, right?

your posting that this is a tea growing province pulled a cord on my recollection that mulberry is historically grown by those unable to grow tea, so being a tea growing province could mean not all in the province can grow tea, so, maybe, perhaps, some will be growing mulberry for silk worms?

not sure if this helps anyone, but NEXIA used to own the rights to the name BioSteel and they had DoD funding but are a failed historical footnote to investors in our space. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioSteel


BioSteel is now a name owned by a competitor in Europe which seems to be hoping to introduce medical products. Key product appear to be a silk coating to a new breast prosthetic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMSilk

I think that "WHOAstocks" had a typo or leap in time when typing 20 stores to open. I think the number is 2. At one point, I vaguely recall, the plan was 5 a year for each of a couple of years yet to come, so maybe a cumulative 20 in a four year time frame?

Just remember, this is all good but also all still "tiny" -- so tiny as to be a special risk? Penny stocks are exceedingly risky in part because the typical investing institutions will not allow their stock pickers to put any shares trading below $5 per share into their portfolios. The control in one family, even if a family that is admired for talent and commitment, is a risk; but, I keep seeing indications that the controlling shareholder is genuinely interested in developing a deep bench of talent even while I realize that if the current leader were to fall ill, that would be a tragedy that the company is unlikely to survive.

I think this is deserving of a portion of my investments even if inappropriate for most investors.

I agree with the point raised by the question posted by "dikfritz" because why have kblb paying for independent directors beginning soon if any path other than Nasdaq listing is in immediate plans? The mystery is NOT whether uplisting. One mystery is about equity, and, on that point I do not agree that the controlling shareholder is going to "forgive" the debts owed him by the corporation; he might be expecting that he needs to ask independent directors to approve his accepting of MORE shares in payment of that debt, right?

Good things to be announced? I think so because I believe that obligating corporation to pay for independent directors is an obvious increase in exposure. Something big? I think, yes. I still think we are unlikely to see genuine revenues from sales of yarn or thread or boiled cocoons for months. Will we see revenues from sales of worms? I am hoping so.

Does the credit crisis in VietNam add uncertainties, delays, risks? I am feeling the pain already!

Does the Hong Kong crisis with mainland Chinese troop action add to uncertainties, delays, risks? I fear so.

Do we get dragged into the whirlpooling problems from SoftBank or WeWork or related "valuation-checking" and liquidity crises? I think not, but we may find that our kblb stakes are impacted in surprisingly painful ways, right?

What about crazed weather in Michigan? Oh, no!

Are we impacted by Turkey with its unusual confrontations with darn near everyone on darn near everything? I know that I recently bought some new fabric clothes that were styled in Europe but made in Turkey, so I kind of think the impact might badly surprise me, ughhhh.

What about the impeachment of Trump? Oh, I hope that is not going to be an impact on kblb nor on me!

I don't know much and care even less to speculate blindly, but, what we all do know is that during the 4th quarter KBLB begins paying for three outside directors. I am hanging my hat on that hook.

I "hope" (in a way of blind speculation) that the 4th new director for that meeting is an insider because he/she is designated in the context of new financing.

The reports we read here from those attending the shareholder meeting were that Jon asked Kim if production would be 3rd or 4th quarter and that Kim answered with a hedge that production might be farther out until 2020 q1 or even q2. If financing for expanding production and operations is tied to production, others here have posted there is a cycle from changing the genes until getting production from the individual worm, right? Was that cycle something measured in a couple of months? I am thinking once the pieces of the different puzzles are in place and through any cycling, that we can see potentially big jumps at short intervals, right?

Nefariouswu, I am awfully sad to read that being in one's 40's is reason to be rejected for employment!!! Especially, from a job to be performed in countries with cultures venerating their elders. Ouch. I have heard similar experiences from people in different careers and different cultures.

I want to urge you to explore against the official paths! But, how realistic is it that your reward for taking the chance may be as pay for private tutors? I have heard second hard stories that private tutoring is lucrative in Asia. Might doing so compete with a secure paycheck as the reason to take the risk on your moving? I wish you the best!!! At my age, an age far advanced over your own, maybe I only see things if able to be bright enough to be mistaken for a silver lining?

I am not convinced that the poster under the alias of zerohedge is correct; accordingly, I am hoping to discover that we benefit from having taken a stake in SIAF. I do wish that "telling the story" had already included a webcam for us to see life in the tanks. If you make the trip, and, if you can, include video blogging for your well wishers here. I am optimistic that there is a chance far higher than zero for SIAF to be rewarding to shareholders. I am optimistic for your career change!

The comments here seem only to look at lab press releases from the USA and maybe EU. We are going to be blind-sided if we don't look for more from Asia. China, foremost. Possibly Uzbekistan, India, Viet Nam. Texas is safe, because...?

I don't think we are going to see many articles of spider silk being worn in 2019. Fabric has to be made into garments but we have not yet seen samples being ordered for testing before production fabric being ordered let alone reordered.

my strong suspicion is that the SpydaSilk tradename is using token spider silk during this capturing of a foothold to create a market for the future. At this point?
there may be a smidgen of particles that are claimed to be spider silk, maybe even from multiple providers I am not convinced that there are not labs-to-markets we don't read about, particularly in Asia, where transfer of know-how has always come at a high risk of pirate goods.

more research in China than everywhere else combined, why is the official corporate fear of competition from China what was disclosed by the CEO?

if fancy cheese sampler platters are offered for other predictions about kblb, then maybe we should be listing our forecasts for what will be early commercial uses of the yarn? I think first use will be ...

as I re-read the link about SpydaSilk-tm at https://danamic.org/2019/09/19/celebrity-designer-m-on-the-podium-lounge-2019s-fashion-circuit/ the phrase that sticks out is that the many fabrics are also blended with a proprietary spider silk. What if the ratio is that these fashions were under 5% spider silk, regardless of from which maker, would you still consider this to have the same meaning as believing that these are from yarn from silk worms? I think we are going to be facing a reality that this is marketing what is far from the ratio we are assuming. I also think that this designer, in the interview at the link above, calling it proprietary spider silk begs the question of proprietary to whom?


my current view is that he is anticipating that there will be a revolution in materials. as part of that, he no doubt is scouting potential providers. the possible pop culture tie in to the spider super hero, the possible cultural tie in to silk, all good, but, none are specific to, nor proprietary of, our stake in kblb....

he has a stake in the tradename protected, SpydaSilk(tm), right? He might have scouted many potential providers, might have experimented and glad-handed many wanting to get a marketing leg up off this fashion show. I think it is clear, the winner was promoting the tradename, and another winner was adding to the many clothing items popping up on line with spider silk buzzwords (but not much actual content measured in the fabric from this topic)