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AGAIN and AGAIN...this don't answer my question: "Why the UW's (spend money and fight for in court) to be in class 19, if there is nothing?"
More details please !
That don't answer my question: "Why the UW's (spend money and fight for in court) to be in class 19, if there is nothing?"
EXACTLY! That's why my question "Why the UW's (spend money and fight for in court) to be in class 19, if there is nothing?"
explain pls "Why the UW's want to be in class 19, if there is nothing?"!
Why the UW's want to be in class 19, if there is nothing?
OK, then please tell me: 1) Why we have got ESCROW shares, which ones are still in our accounts? 2) Why the Underwriters are fighting in court to be in class 19, if there is absolutely nothing? 3) Why nobody of the BOD has ever made an official statement about WMIH Escrow shares?
I only wanted to say there were always assets, but they never ever really told us how much and where they are. They only told us in court all the time, the assets are "safe" and can/will pursue later in time. Now we've waited 13 years and still don't know NOTHING! Hopefully Alice will get some answers!!!!!!
After 13 years I (and we ALL) have the right to know, what our ESCROWS are worth?
All we know now (after 13 years!) is still the only thing: "The Holy Grail *RETAINED ASSETS* YOUR HONOR *They Will Still Be There"! ..."the *RETAINED ASSETS* are retained and therefore the liquidating trust can go ahead and pursue them."
NOW IS THE TIME TO DO THAT! DAMN!
Ray, that's fully right! After 13 years we know NOTHING (!) about the retained assets! And now it's time to open the "box" and tell us what we want to know since 13 years! That's why I am very thankful that somebody (Alice) set a definitive date to answer all OUR (!) questions! And according to the first reaction of her complaint, it seems that some of them becomes a little nervous!?
FULLY AGREE! Everybody wants to know what ALICE wants to know, or not!?
Go 13 years back! This was one of the main points of contention and also the reason why Equity survived!
EXACTLY! But many here (which only reading the board messages) think it's good what Alice is doing! We need some REAL CLARIFICATION and not only always speculation!
But in any case the $5.9 billion(!) NOL's of Mr. Cooper belongs ONLY to the old shareholders (ESCROW owners)! That was ruled in court!
EXACTLY!
Don't think so! She is an Escrow shareholder like you and me and it is her right to fight for. At the moment nobody else is doing that. In any case and what ever comes out, in my opinion after 13 years of NOTHING any movement will be good for all of us to bring some light into this case. And according to the first reaction of the complaint it seems somebody ist becoming a little nervous!???
Serafino ...and if I remember me right (after Nate Thoma unmasked the illegal insider trading of the hedgies), there was a hard fight of the Equity to get these NOL's. And if these billions of NOL's still exist (which is for sure) they always have and still belongs to the old Equity holders and must be paid out. This alone proves, that all Equity holders (at the moment called ESCROWS) are still in the "game"!
AZ Thanks! And is there any timeframe you can estimate?
We wait already 13 years, that's normally enough!
AZ, I've one question: is it finally over, if we don't get paid in June - August?
(Background of my question is, that if I understand Alice right, then she want a clarification in June and starting of payment ASAP!? So it seems for me, the finally time is coming!? And if still nothing happens then it is finally over for all of us!?)
Yes! You should put the money somewhere, because INFLATION is on the horizon!
Yes, of course, because otherwise it makes no sense!
FACT is, we still have our ESCROWS! WHY???
EXACTLY, it was that! The legal group Akin and Gump are discussing the scope of what the Examiner can examine and what he cannot examine:
"We also have in there the part (b) of what is to be retained, and that is because in negotiations that we had with all of the settling parties, with the equity committee last week, with the FDIC, we did talk a great deal about the concept of the retained assets. Now, it's my position, Your Honor, that the examiner doesn't need to know much with the retained assets other than say the assets are retained and therefore the liquidating trust can go ahead and pursue them. They will still be there; they can be carried through. But I understand that the equity committee is very interested in having a neutral third party do an investigation of those retained assets."
And by the way, after 13 years we've only got some COOP-shares, but not any single part of the so called "retained assets"! This part of the deal is still open!
EXACTLY !
This makes no sense! Because, if ownership of NewCo was all of F&R, there would be never ever a nessecity to give us additional ESCROW shares, which ones are now still in our bank accounts (after all these 13 years, the close of BK, the change of ownership and all other events...)?
As long as ESCROWS are in my account, as long I think there must be something coming back, because otherwise they would have been deleted these ESCROW shares. Some weeks ago somebody here has said, the use of NOL is directly connected to the ESCROW shares. So if they want use NOL's they must pay ESCROW's?!
OK, thats fine Bob ! Same opinion !
As long as we have ESCROWS in our accounts, nothing is over ! FACT !
I like that !
Somebody shall tell us, what is legally meant by F&R ?
I by myself cannot see any F&R at the moment. I have less money than before the POR7 settlement!
FAIR & REASONABLE ! ....in the world of lawyers
OH ...THANK YOU SO MUCH !! So that is, what "Fair & Reasonable" means in USA ?! JPM found $80 Billion "unexpected bonus" for only $1,88 Billion and the LT has found NOTHING for shareholders ! Relearned !
P.S.: Maybe $80 Billion is so small, that it is very hard to find ?! har har har
WHAT is FAIR & REASONABLE in the USA ?
If somebody will ask me that, then (at the moment) I would tell him the following: "FAIR & REASONABLE" is, if you have shares of a company which has gone bankrupt ... then was sold for $1,88B to JPM ... which later found (in total) ~$80 BILLION "unexpected bonuses" ... and all formerly shareholders got NOTHING !
PROPOSAL: If there should be no F&R at the end, then let's kick (very very powerful !) our lawyers' ass ! That's (maybe) not fair but REASONABLE !!
@zeus: Have you heard any noise from anybody (court, FDIC, HF or anybody else) after JPM found nearly $100 Billion of "unexpected" assets in the remains of WAMU ...shortly after they paid only (!) $1.88 Billion for the whole (???) WAMU ?
If this wasn't real fraud, then I don't know what fraud is !
...or (maybe) somebody has made a deal long long time before and that's why are ALL so quiet !?
It is CRAZY ! Some people are really HAPPY, if we don't get any money !
UNBELIEVABLE !
HM
"JPM found something unexpectedly good: about $30 billion of mortgages on apartment buildings, which earned strong returns whether the economy was performing well or not."
It was the primary task of the LT to find such values. For the benefit of the stockholders to minimize their losses !!
...and by the way...I cannot really believe, that all the HF only sit back and watched how JPM suddenly founds almost $100 billion shortly after the (alleged) insolvency !
@HM:
It's very simple. Take a look at other insolvency companies (worldwide !). You know surely better than me, the standard return value of insolvent companies lies between 15-30% and not 0% !!!
John Hempton believe that the FDIC ‘stole’ Washington Mutual from shareholders and awarded it to JPMorgan !
JPMorgan’s $29 Billion Windfall
So JPM found $30 Billion + $29 Billion in the remains of WAMU and shareholders shall get nothing ?!
Who thinks that this "FAIR & REASONABLE" must be mad ??
@hotmeat wrote:
What's the problem ? All was going according to plan !
1) As always stated: Nothing will come from LT ! ...done
2) BK must be closed before we will get anything ! ...done
3) Escrow-Cusips are not cancelled ! ...done
So ALL IS READY now for the NEXT STEP !
I think the same way ! So there are 2 doors open ... one inside and one outside BK ! Which is GOOD for all of us !