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Do you know how many escrow owners signed and released?
Does anyone here know if CBA09 is still alive?
If I knew, I would share it with the board...as I have already disclosed, I am a retail investor and is not associated with any of the involved parties.
This logic is very simple...even a layman can understand this...you dont need to be a $1000/hr lawyer.
If there really is nothing more in remote bankruptcy, there is no reason for the Debtors to deny full disclosure...no need for Hochberg to say "the assets will carry through your Honor".
I'm 100% positive there are remote bk assets...only 50% sure that retail will see it. I will admit there is a chance the big boys have found a way around retail.
Merry Christmas everyone! LG, thanks for your thoughts on the DST and your continual optimism...As the year winds down, I have very little hope that we will hear anything this year but I'm keeping my hopes alive until end of March.
LG, didnt you post a link before showing that DST must distribute its assets in remote bankruptcy within 1 year from the LT shutdown?
Also, is there a DST rule where they can distribute the assets within the first few days of January to make the distribution count as previous year for tax purposes?
Wmilt has been closed for almost a year. If the remote bk trust can delay distribution past this year. I dont see any mechanism that would prevent them delaying for another 10 years
And what happens if Walrath kicks the bucket?
Again, I am 100% certain that there are remote bk assets. I'm just loosing hope that retail will ever see a dime of it.
Now that SG mysteriously died from a bicycle "accident" who is going to dare to "enforce" any contracts? Not to be debby downer but starting to lose the last of my hope. The year is almost over and crickets.... I will tey to hold out until end of march but starting to believe the boys found a way around us retail.
That's why I think if they dont distribute by end of march 2023, then they can basically delay indefinitely...so I think I would give up my hopes by then. This will be my last time speculating on "justice"
The judge could only stop them from cutting out commons from the remote bk assets. The judge did not have jurisdiction over the remote bk assets but she was able to prevent who was going to be "last in line" outside of bk. She did not have authority in determining when those assets come out...so these assholes are just basically delaying the distribution until everyone involved is either retired or dead. The judge was no spring chicken in 2008..she's probably close to retirement by now
The assets are bk remote...out of jurisdiction of the bk judge...if anyone needs to go after them it will have to be the US Trustee...I dont think there is anyone in that office motivated to go after them...Someone needs to sue for disclosure and it needs to be an insider with knowledge of these assets...and I think there are few insiders so they can easily be bought out by the big boys
No doubt, bk remote assets exist...just a question of whether retail holders would get them. Maybe the insiders found a way to utilize those assets without retail ever seeing a dime. You cant sue for what is not disclosed. Seems like the trustee can just wait indefinitely without any repercussions. No one investigating whether or not they are doing their job.
LG, I agree that there is at least $27B to $86B missing in loan residuals from Wamu over the past 14 years that were shielded in bankruptcy remote trusts...that never showed up in FDIC or JPM books. JPM also publically claimed that they never purchased the loans.
I also agree that if any payments should happen it should happen by 12/31/2022 at the latest. If we dont see our money by then, I think the big money may have figured out a way to go around retail holders.
I'm still ever hopeful but I'm ready to put this behind. At this point I know that there is 99.99% chance that the money is there but 50% chance that it will return to retail holders.
I wish the judge could have made this final play for remote bk assets more explicit. Retail should have been given the same insider info as the hedgefunds at the closing of the BK. Instead we have been simply told to "ride their coatails"...as if we have any resources to find out if we have been left behind.
Many here have suffered so much from 14 years of anxiety from being in the dark. I hope we can all get a solid closure regardless of which way our fortunes fall. I wish there was a positive "yes or no" from the court about the bk remote assets..
Understood. WMI did not own the trusts but if they did own residuals, would those residuals be bankruptcy remote? If not, shouldnt they have been paying back to the estate all these years?
Wouldnt you say the net residual in those isolated BK remote trusts is about $24B in 2008? according to the bankruptcy filing at the time? I would also assume they had to write down that equity stake quite a bit in the prior 3 quaters before the bankruptcy filing in Sep 2008.
Thank you Cura. Wouldnt that mean 6 months from March 31...so August 31st? not 11th?
Thank you. Why Aug 11th? Is the date tied to another event?
Happy 4th to you sir! This is coming to an end to many of us here. We can only hold out hope for so long. Good luck to you and have a great holiday weekend with your family!
cura, this kind of reaffirms my theory...so if we dont see anything by March 31st 2023 then its all over correct?
JHD, I agree I'm at the end of my patience with this. I figured if they can keep the remote bk assets longer than a year after bankruptcy official shutdown, they can keep it forever. That's why I'm only holding up my hopes until March 31st, 2023
1 quarter down, 3 more to go...Escrow paymebt by March 31st 2023 or retail has been screwed.
At this point its too late for us to sue anyone. The only thing that I suggest is have everyone on this board keep a close eye on any court filings the hedge funds might file to go after those remote bk assets. I'm still very weary of the fact that everyone here thinks they will return to us automatically. What if there is some sort of claim action that we need to file?
The judge hinted that we would be riding the coattails of the big boys...Does that mean we need to follow their actions or sit on our butt and wait for things to unfold automatically?
JPM already publicly stated that they only got the servicing rights with the bank. That was the basis for why they were fighting the clawback claims from DB and FDIC.
The $86B is what the loan portfolio is worth in runoff. The Wamu loan portfolio was generating $8.5B in interest profit per year according to their last 10k.
Wamu declared bankruptcy to protect the portfolio interest when the bank was taken over. All these bankruptcy plans are contingency plans in place in case of FDIC takeover.. The Wamu attorneys have had these plans in place as they should for just in case.
I have no doubt that the loan portfolio could have generated $86B in interest over the last 14 years.
I'm also 100% certain JPM didnt take it as they clearly stated that none of the loan portfolio interest got transferred in the sale. only the bank was sold
My only concern now is have the hedge fund found a way to access those accrued interest in remote bankruptcy without us retail participation.
What about Bonderman and cohorts who owns the vast majority of the preferreds? I believe they sunk in close to $7B, the summer before the takeover. They just simply signed off on POR7 accepting just the shares of the $200M WMIH? If I were the investors it would make logical sense to not sign and keep the estate paying for the attorneys and keep suing.
Why should I settle for measly $200M when I've been swindled $7B just a few months from sinking in my investment? The risk of missing out on $200M is miniscule compare to gaining my $7B+ back
trueinsider, can you theorize on why all the hedgefunds signed off on POR7 if nothing is coming back beyond the $200M in WMIH shares? It cost them nothing for the estate to keep suing FDIC and JPM...why give away rights to 10's of Billions of dollars for pocket change?
Are the hedgefunds by nature just not greedy? maybe a little socialist? dont like money?
And if there really is only $200M WMIH left, why not sign at POR1? Why wait years to sign POR7?
Newflow, it looks like according to your sample case of NII, we need to first see a filing with the court for a notice of distribution of the remote bk assets for old Wamu escrow holders....then the court takes approximately 6 months to approve followed by distributions within days after approval.
We still havent seen any notice of distribution with the court so how are you expecting payment by October 2022?
Interesting...no one else willing to voluntarily state a similar full disclosure??
VOLUNTARY FULL DISCLOSURE: I am an independent "retail" investor. I have never posted as a paid poster either as an employee or under contract by any institutions or law firm involved in the Wamu bankruptcy. I am not an employee or hold any financial interests in any institutions or law firms involved in the Wamu bankruptcy.
If nothing returns to old escrow owners by March 31st 2023, it is most likely that the institutions and Mike Willingham cut an under the table deal and found a legal loop hole to cut us retail out.
I am 200% certain that the big boys didnt settle POR7 for a measly $200M WMIH. There were assets isolated in Remote BK. The fact that we retail havent seen a dime could only mean that the big boys found a way to cut us out.
If I were the board, I would focus our attention how they could go around us. Because "riding the coatail" of these boys are our only chance...if we can find their coatails
Ron, I'm not suggesting that we hire attorneys...but is there anyway to find out if the institutions are filing court papers to go after the remote bankruptcy trust assets? I just want to know if they are doing any actions and not sitting quitely like us.
Ron, I agree with you 200% that the Remote Bankruptcy assets exists!
I'm just starting to doubt that those assets will return to us automatically. What if we are required to pursue them now that the bankruptcy is done? Maybe the instituitions are doing this now....I have no idea. Judge Walrath mentioned that we were going to ride the coatails of the institutions...is there anyway we can find out if they are filing something in the Delaware courts to pursue these remote bankrutcy assets ohtside of the very "public" bankruptcy that just ended?
I'm not saying anything illegal happened. I'm just saying that they have attorneys who may have a better understanding of the legal process to go after the remote bankruptcy assets....while we retail are just sitting in the dark hoping that the assets will return to us automatically....what if we had to pursue them??
Maybe the institutions know this and thats why they are so quiet.
Thank you Ray. Can you tell me how long were they deleted before reappearing in your account? Also, when did they reappear?
Thanks again for sharing.
We need to all focus on why the institutions have not made a peep sound about the remote bankruptcy assets. As the judge said, we need to ride their coatails. I highly doubt they are just simply waiting. Maybe there are unpublicised efforts in the court (now that the "public" bankruptcy is over". How can we find out what they are doing? and please....dont just reply that there is nothing left. The institutions would not have signed off on POR7 for a lousy $200M Wmih reorg.
Remote Bankruptcy assets are REAL!
How much? a lot more than $200M...min $20B is my guess..hoping it will be closer to $60B
Will they "automatically" return to all who signed off on POR7?
That is what we need to focus on. I have a suspicion that it is not automatic. We need to figure out what the institutions are doing!
I am aware of non public companies where remote bankruptcy assets were "hidden" from creditors through the bankruptcy...but I'd be interested in finding an example for a public company.
My biggest fear is the institutional investors are so quiet and I'm 200% positive they didnt sign up for POR7 just to get shares in $200M WMIH.. why would you when there were 10's of billions you could pursue by continuing the lawsuit against JPM/FDIC...so which leads me to my fear...are they secretly pursuing the remote bankruptcy assets outside of the BK court now that the BK is officially closed?
Ray, were these the markers for Lehman? Were there any reasons given by your broker for why they were brought back?
Ron, thanks for your reply. We dont necessarily need to find a bankruptcy like WMi...just any bankruptcy of a public company with remote bankruptcy assets...and the mechanism of repatriation of said assets.