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makes sense... I like the product.... and the timing seems auspicious. thanks for the update.
as it relates to the current iteration ....nor have you been proven right.
about a 32 million dollar price difference...
After all these years ,and the millions of taxpayer monies allocated ... no one has developed an inexpensive alternative to a satellite or predator , much less cornered this market... . yet.
Sorry Jet that it hurts your sensiblities, I feel that the entire system has been broken for a long time.Lets let the coorporations pick our elected candidates... and lets give the wall street tycoon/bufoons 250 billion in raises for a job well done.
Penny stocks are a game unto themselves.It is a place to gamble where what you see is not necessarily what you get, It is a world where statistical analysis can trump all else, and render the opaque transparent. If you dont like the game , then dont play Just type the word into google. All kinds of advice on how to play them. Oh... wait, maybe we should shut down Google.
when you say:"Dabug, so on one hand you expect the SEC to "come down hard on those [Companies/People] who brought this economy to its knees" Nope, I dont expect jack from the SEC. Even our "elected officials" are having a hard time breaking the stranglehold of big money.
"You express your displeasure with companies ...." You are reading me wrong... I am merely being REALISTIC about the nature of things. If I choose to play the game of penny stocks, I play by a totally different set of rules.
"Do you really mean to imply that if a scumbag(criminal) doesn't get caught he deserves praise and not condemnation? I can see why you are confused with the issue of moral high ground."
I guess I have really touched a nerve with the white knights of the wall street penny stock world. I could care less about the moral high ground in this arena. I do not claim moral anything here. Those here who are serious penny stock afficionados don't either.
Mdntrdr... I never said all, and you know that. But I do believe if you play pennystocks according to the rules set forth by the many millionaire authors.... you play which ever one comes along(99% of which are probably not legit)
Ac... you are wrong in your proclamation. Gtem went down because of corruption. Short sellers went along for the ride, and benefitted financially from the same corruption they condemed.
i beg to differ Rag... If you play a game that is run by someone you believe to be corrupt and who is out to steal flimflam scam P&D whatever.... and you profit in anyway from that deception, shorting or otherwise... to the detriment of unsuspecting trusting people who put there money into the "scam".... you are culpable.
ok... heres another way of looking at it:
1.At any given moment lets assume that all penny stocks are suspect... except the ones that succeed( and they aren't penny stocks any more,so they don't count).
2.Anyone who invests in them should know that 99% of the time they are suspect, shady, opaque, and can cause anyone to lose their entire investment.
3.If one realizes this , and the fact that the stock market is a game where usually the purest motivation is to increase your wealth( Don't worry about the fact that an increase in your wealth might probably,at some point, cause an equal diminution in someone elses wealth), then the question is: how can one take advantage of possibly the most lucrative,per unit time, stock market investments going.......?
4. lets assume that pennies are dangerous because 99% of the time... they are run by people whose sole motivation is to take your money( Don't worry about the 1% that divaricate from this norm).. The question then is: how can one profit from a stock that can turn a hundred dollar investment into a thousand dollars in a year.( I mean, we all have heard about the fortunate "ONES" who bought into Force Protection when it was a penny... and sold out at say...30 some bux... but I digress). Here, we are talking average penny stocks.... you know, scams, P&D whatever. Seems there are two ways: 1. do your research and get the nittygritty on the penny,then... short the living daylights out of it( Don't worry about the poor dumb humans whose weekly paycheck just bought it... before you shorted it and drove the price down 100% before they knew what hit them.) or 2: see that it is a penny stock and play the game.. you know, watch for a spike in interest after a few year lull on a stock under a buck( preferably under ten cents or less).. do a little research, determine whether there is an emotion factor to it.( don't spend too much time deciding whether its legit.... by that time its doubled or better)... and allocate some funds, commensurate to emotion.
5. Play the game. By now, you are acquiring enough time to do the research you should have done, and (if like most pennies), reached the conclusion that its a penny. So.. you dump at an appropriate point in time
6.I don't know who is or was the brains behind any penny stock. But, if as some suggest JL is a maestro at the well known game of penny stocks, and has not gotten caught after all this.. well, maybe another way of viewing him besides as a" scumbag", is that he is good at penny stocks. If you don't like the scummy nature of pennies.... don't play them. But don't condemn the individuals that allow you to increase your wealth, and in essence, you collude with. (that is hypocrisy)
7. I would not discount pennies entirely, because even though my experience is that they are all shady, there is always that 1 or .01 or .001 chance that like Force Protection or even Sirius(for a while) was legit
8.If you lose playing pennies... tough.. you should have known better, and if not, you know now.
comon Rag..... I admitted earlier that that high moral standards was not my tier when playing pennies. No need to get sore...lol . I was just trying to verify who around here exemplified those standards given all the name calling and judging going on.
thats you alright.. one of the good guys....rockon. I bet there was a time when a penny cleaned you pretty good, but you learned from the mistake. Problem with most pennies, its really hard to see through the plan. Take Snsr, some here think the future is a slam dunk... and have predicting its demise for going on three years now. It is still here.. and if it continues to survive.. there is a chance that it will rise again...maybe the SEC will shut it down;Maybe not. I will bet that many here who think JL is a scumbag, will have no problem playing this( or is it his)
stock for their own financial gain if it runs again.
"Just look what happened to the recent run up to .19"
ok..... so it has acted just like all the other penny stocks that I have played.
lol... I am with you there mdntr... that was before i had my trial by fire ( btw what was the date on that post?) .. and looking back at my post , i left out a crucial word in that sentence... I meant "knowing what i know Now" my mistake.
Theres a whole lot of trusting people out there, about to embark on the fascinating world of the stockmarket via online investing... I was one,and finally came to understood what my father had told me.
if Snsr runs.. what are your plans Rag? Are you going to play it?,are you going to make some money?
perhaps the SEC should have come down on those who brought this economy to its knees... That would be a great place to set an example.. don't you think?
"by people like you and others that talk about the great chances that companies like SNSR have to make them millions"... not once Jet. Knowing what I know, there is no way I would pump what I can not see... I don't respect those who do. But the game is what it is... if I can catch a penny. I will.
where is the moral highground found when hitching your horse to just about any penny stock? Or is it that you only invest in "legitimate" penny stocks ?
Where are those who can support the integrity of pennies. Where are those "seasoned" investors who would recommend penny stocks for someone on a minimal salary . It won't happen .People who stumble into the penny arena for the quick score learn very quickly that no "respectable " investment advisor will steer you to 99.9% of penny stocks because they are corrupt/shady.I don't claim moral high ground because I knowingly and willingly participate . I am only trying to reconcile the conflicting images created by those who judge the perpetrators of any deceptive/shady/crooked/penny stocks as being reprehensible low life on the one hand but have no problem enriching themselves by knowingly taking some of the slaughter for themselves (e.g.shorting a known scam in the name of keeping the system healthy); or playing pennies in general,knowing full well that resulting obscene returns are usually the result of mass public deception.
Why participate in a fraud unless there is payout....? Everyone that plays pennystocks is likely quite aware, as Jet pointed out, that behind every 10.20,30 bag winner,... there is a commensurate loser. The people who play them,all the while knowing this....... are an integral part of the system.
As far as privledged status for shorting,I have done a little homework and found that as of now, Snnsr can be shorted with lesser known platforms or through offshore connections; I do not know if this has always been so.I suspect that the huge run ups in penny stocks are created by the mass hysteria of relative novices in the penny arena; The majority of whom have no clue about "shorting" or the various ways that their investment , in even well regarded stocks, can be quickly diminished by other "tricks of the trade". As stated ,naked shorting is and should be criminal. I am not a collector of chatroom discussions, so i can not recall the volumes of data collected and discussed here in the past,so I can only maintain my beliefs . If you believe that there are no players out there who have figured out how,and with whom, to game the system without being detected.....more power to you.
Btw... Am I invested in Snsr because I want to participate in scam...? No, I am still hoping that maybe, every once in a while, I will find a penny investment,with good returns,a legitimate product, that helps to improve man's lot..... That is why I have no intention of shorting it.
the issue was about moral high ground...not blame
a close encounter with reality... good way to sharpen the senses. My encounter was about 18 months later. bummer... but not altogether lost.
'I don't like the OTCBB. I don't like inefficient markets that can be easily manipulated"
Acumen.... your moniker is of some significance... why are you here? You didn't mind playing back then... what is different now?. The penny stock market has not changed.. still corrupt as always. What are you trying to protect here on a daily basis; since it now appears that you were a beneficiary of the system. Is their a reason why we should suddenly outlaw penny stocks.. have you had an awakening?
just curious
penny stocks... its where its at... hit um on the way up... and on the way down.
keep it real,keep it safe, for the uninformed newbies
like I said, ask cole... it is on the rolladex
I remember quite a few ,who frequented this room, longingly reminiscing their prowess at "shorting the livin sh*t out of this pig". I myself did not have the right during the same time frame.
I don't need to prove a thing.
I simply question some of those who suggest they occupy the moral high ground.
"ARE YOU SERIOUS WITH THAT LINE? For evey one investor whose made money off a penny, I'd be willing to wager there are are thousand who have lost...and many who have lost ALL"
reality bites, welcome to the human race. Its all about snake oil in these rooms, get rich quick, sorry man. don't give up though.....
Every once in a while... hope wins
btw chkoutpgpm :)
ok. I do believe that there is ample evidence of a disparity of privledge when it comes to who can,and who can't.
Further, the game , by virtue of this disparity, allows for the perpetual manipulation of a percieved outcome over time, benefitting those who can, to the detriment of those who can not.
Simply, if you can not stand the rigged heat of the typical penny stock game.... do not play. ; And recognize that those who benefitted most from the game will say anything to enrich themselves....again.
I am sure there are quite a few old timers here that can pull up the stats here, if they check in. There is ,as cole could pull up on his rolladex,a littany of discussions,during gtem's rise,indicating as much. I still haven't figured out how to short any stock in the range of .05 - .0001 cents on scottrade.... got any tips?.. I know it can be done.
Which also begs the question.... if one was so privledged as to be able to short a stock that the "common man" could not... would it not be true that this so privledged individual might have access to information not easily accessed by the"common man"... ?
As such, the privledged one can just as easily take the common man's money...as the TimHuff et.al in the arena of penny stock nirvana.
My question then is, which of those... who took the "common man"'s money is in the best position to judge the other? There is admittedly, a whole lot of judging going on.
Dont you believe that all should have the privledge of shorting stocks that are not generally available for shorting... otherwise, its not a level field(for those who want to slaughter the lambs)... or is it a privledge that should be enjoyed by only a few, well connected,participants of the arena?
true colors Ac... always appreciated. The poor dumb lambs who lost their hard earned blu collar bux to the scam of TimHuff et.al.in the ethereal world of penny stock nirvana, can thank you for hastening the demise of their daily toil.... After all, you help keep the system healthy.... Right?
Its what I said " you are trying to save the unknowing.. from their inherent predisposition to greed, because they are surrounded by those, so privileged, that they can work the system."
You win. they lose, unless.... they figure it out.... and even then.. you win. Timetoprocreate.
Unlike you,I would never gloat,(especially when so many lives are so wrecked)...it is not my nature.
To each his own.
The difference between you and me... I am not trying to prove a thing; I am only suggesting an alternative reality. You believe that because you lost a bundle playing this penny ,that this penny is inherently bad. I have asked for anyone to present one or more examples of a "penny stock" that actually added to the "goodness"of the human experience, that promoted an altruistic aura worthy of a Goog, or Msft,etc.
They are very far and few between.
You played in the arena of penny stocks (No Professional Stock Advisor would promote one,.... right?) rife with corruption and because you lost a bundle,Gtem,Adgi,and their ilk .. mostly stocks that trade in the penny(and sub)range.. [The Very Same Stocks That Promise The Greatest Return on Investment] are bad,corrupt;and the SE$C should shut them down. You will never win that battle.
As long as humans breathe, there will be snake oil and believers. Did you learn nothing? Oh, I know... you are trying to save the unknowing.. from their inherent predisposition to greed,because they are surrounded by those, so privledged, that they can work the system... at your expense. You are just trying to catch up.
Look at the list of people that played the "corrupt/untouchable" penny stock arena..And Won;Then they wrote books revealing their secrets, and compounded their millions.
Then ask yourself.. why am I here? Am I hanging out in the stock market because I care about my fellow man?, or... am I hanging out in the stock market because I want to compete,win,make money,get rich,attract the best females on the planet and procreate...?.I digress.... or do I... ?
The stock market was built by people who wanted YOUR money, with the promise(hook) that YOU could get rich.
you said: "Most investors don't invest and then wait 6-12 years for the company they invested in to show them a return. That's called being a dreamer." Jet.. suppose you went into the pennystock arena knowing that it was nothing but a game played by people who wanted your money.... Would you have played it anyway, knowing that you could reap a ten,20,30 bagger in a year instead of in ten,20,or 30 years? I believe you would.. because you like the rest of us saw that penny stock returns dwarfed anything else out there, per unit time..... All the while,knowing in the back of your mind, that penny stocks are penny stocks for a reason.
All you have to do is play by a different set of rules, or not play at all.
you might want to consider that the whole stock market looks like a pump and dump. It just depends on which side of the equation you end up on.
I said: "None of us know anything about the outcome"...
I have not made any predictions... Anybody can see the past..Look at all the 10,20,30 bagger pennies out there and peruse their graphs/histories....kind of look like adgi,gtem. I believe pennies have a life of their own. I have seen too many rise quickly and fall just as quickly.. then after a period of time, the process repeats itself.(You can call penny stocks anything you want,but if they are played well,they return well...No one is going to ban them in this country ,regardless of their near universal reputation)
It is a game people play,it is risky.. just need to know when to give them up. simple. I am not discounting the possibility that Snsr may produce a marketable product.The stock has been hanging in a 5-15cent range for nearly 3 years. Snsr/Tao has produced at least a functioning prototype ,far more then Gtem had when it went on the amex at .20cents( pre reverse split). I believe the market for a successful uav like an STS111 is greater now then five years ago. If the STS111 or derivative succeeds it will be a winner,especially if it is alone in the market.If not... well just move on.
You didnt answer the question.. remember?.... "just one"
you Jet,take a contrarian position , and are willing to say anything to put a negative spin... Why not let the chips just fall. None of us know anything about the outcome. Mide is right, we are in the dark...nothing unusual there( it seems it has always been that way).
We, all of us, who enter the Snsr room on Ihub ..do very little except profess our belief in the failure or success of a penny stock. You,and a few others, hope it will fail so you are "proven" right. I hope something has been learned about how not to run a penny; I hope Snsr and those involved are not going to repeat the mistakes that put the former controllers in the exposed/deserved/vulnerable position they are in now.I hope that Snsr/Tao can finally pull it off,despite the heretofor total failure of ANY company to develop,patent,and market an inexpensive,easily deployed,unmanned, stratospheric ,EyeinTheSky,uav with significant station keeping properties. None of you ,or I, can see the outcome; All of our opinions are based on our hopes and dreams.
I have heard many guarantee the demise of gtem/snsr/adgi in a certain time frame(bashers?).... It is still here. I have also heard many others promise the salvation of the world( pumpers?aka TimmyHuff)... hasn't happened.
I fault no one for having played,and lost, an investment in a high risk stock relegated to the rank of untouchable by respected investment firms.What I don't get is why they try and make out like they never tried to get rich.... playing the pennies,the long shot.. 100:1 .
I would like any of those who supply the bulk of negative commentary here to explain why they invested in the lowest rung, most disparaged,frowned upon ,traded stocks available. I would like to know what part of the pennystock game is fine,when they play, but elicits such rancor after they lost the game. Should we ban pennystocks? It won't happen. Too many people with too much power are making too much money. Just looking for one hot tip from any of those who played the pennies game , and won,and most importantly ,while doing so ...... benefitted the rest of mankind.
"The inventor of the product is shady" ....other the posting anonymously on an internet penny stock chatroom board.... What are your credentials ?
Getting burned by playing the high risk low rung doesn't count.
what...? you don't want the real dirt? I figured you would be on it big time, ...not just some ethereal whodunitforhowmuch.
I am guessing coastie has access .. wonder why he didn't reveal that. It seems to be a suit by a collection agency, ..trying to make a buck? maybe its a reverse pump . Put some meat on it for us Ac
I hope you find a winner. it will help.
mdntrdr, the answer I gave you implies i dont care. You just like to instigate a discourse that neither of us are in a position to accurately clarify and therefore means nothing. it is what you do. you jump at any opportunity to espouse and/or to affix your a priori opinions(rhetoric) as an unsolicited adjunct... which also mean nothing . i am not playing your game. k. done.
mdntdr ...i answered the first time, the second time and the third http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=47177408 perhaps not what you wanted but it is my answer. k ?
"If you mean build a real product that becomes a commercial success, I will be the first to admit it has become a success. "
ok .... seems reasonable
also is there a proven axiom that any time the shell of a failed company is picked up that the new company is automatically a scam? I mean... do you have some stats ? and you said "I have not seen such stats" ok... no rule then, thanks
finally:"Why is it I have no problems answering your questions but you can't answer mine? " I did http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=47177408
i am done with this circle