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KOmani--thanks so much for your thoughts.
Your "just a few days" timing sounds about right.
And yes--the defendant was in fact arguing that the $30 million was too high--and that the AT&T settlement was illegally quoted by the plaintiff at trial--thereby triggering at the very least a retrial. According to the judge, however, as I understood it, defendant had already quoted other PRZM settlements earlier in the original trial, thereby waiving their rights to object to PRZM quoting the AT&T settlement to the jury. Was that everyone else's take on this? If so we should see a finding in favour of PRZM soon enough and a stock price over $2 at least. PRZM has lots of NOLS so no worries about taxes, but i do believe that they have to cough up 70% of profits above the ~$16.5 million cash they originally gave for the precursor Prism LLC up to an additional $49.5 million in contingent consideration. That would mean PRZM keeps 100% of the first $16.5 million from Sprint but then has to cough up 70% of the NEXT $66 million from all sources ie 70% of all the remaining Sprint revenue and then some. But if they get the full $30 million (which they should plus some kind of interest the judge will award) they will have a net ~ $21 million+ in cash which should justify a ~ $2 to $2.10 ish share price--not to mention enough cash & legal precedents to squeeze settlements out of a few more telco's. Do your own DD but i suspect that if we do see a dismissed appeal & $2.10 in the next few days, there should be a decent shot of doubling the share price again from there at least, as PRZM begin to monetize their patent portfolio more broadly -- and they do have more beyond the two that are driving this Sprint case ....
Interesting to see that someone disagreed with me - aren't markets wonderful
& decided to sell 20,000 PRZM at $0.53, thereby filling the rest of my order & then some!
I'll be curious to see what anyone else thinks of the oral arguments.
I quite like them for PRZM.....
I'm now the proud owner of 60,000 PRZM shares.
On average in the low 30 cents area.
(Yes I bought in too soon but have been patiently averaging down til my 53c purchase this evening).
update re todays przm vs sprint oral argument:
i just listened to the hearing mpeg in full at
http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/oral-argument-recordings?title=Prism+Technologies+LLC+v.+Sprint+Spectrum+L.P.&field_case_number_value=&field_date_value2%5Bvalue%5D%5Bdate%5D=
if that doesn't work, you should be able to find the link to the mp3 at caf under the case name:
Prism Technologies LLC v. Sprint Spectrum L.P.
or under the case number -- 2016-1456
i'm not a lawyer nor do i play one on tv, but the arguments were mostly technical,
a lot of that based on a case going back to 1899 which may well not even have been material anyway.
ie it seemed to me that the judge was of the opinion that sprint had already waived the rights at trial that they were trying to argue for dismissal at appeal.
the appeal was not decided by the judge today.
but the oral arguments were concluded
the judge ended the discussion with the one word "submitted".
i believe that the results typically go up on caf within a few days tho i'd welcome the opinion of a more experienced legal observer or participant.
i put in an order to buy another 5500 shares at $0.53 after listening to the above mp3.
i only got filled on 500 and the bid-ask is now up to $0.60--$0.65
i'm not choosing to chase the price when i now already own 55,500 shares much lower.
but it's looking like the cat may already be slipping out of the bag on this one....
be careful.
nice you've done well--but your strategy will work til it doesn't.
sooner or later the person on the other side of your trade will have information you don't have.
that kind of trading isn't supposed to happen but does every day ;(
http://www.cafc.uscourts.gov/argument/upcoming-oral-arguments
a very strange outcome in the market.
looks like PRZM certainly didn't lose based on the jump in the stock price.
but they certainly can't have won their $30 million+ case either when their market cap is still under $5 million!
it's totally wrong that they're still trading--the stock should be frozen til news is public.
there could be someone in the courtroom right now who's trading on information that's not available to the general public ;(
i've always said this was a lottery ticket.
still happy with my 55,000 share purchase.
but i was expecting better odds than this!
@follow_me i still like PRZM: but as a lottery ticket not a sure thing. PRZM did win the $30 million case against S but S is appealing--and meanwhile PRZM lost basically the same case, against T-Mobile (though PRZM is appealing that!) I do believe that the most likely outcome is an out of court settlement by S for at least some of the money. But the challenge is that it needs to happen soon, as PRZM is running out of cash!
Actually you're right--though AT&T did make that smaller payment as well--I saw it on edgar--my bad for assuming it was the TOTAL payment--perhaps it was just interest or something?
Yup--that makes sense as a range for the Sprint portion.
I actually think that Sprint will offer something to make this go away so don't believe $0 is an option.
AT&T paid much less to make PRZM go away ($3/4 million ish, but that was pre trial--ie all went to the bottom line))
Sprint lost and was ordered to pay $30 million + interest but is appealing.
T-mobile won (perhaps because of the NPE climate at the time, tho this seems to be is improving) and PRZM is appealing.
I dont know where things stand with Verizon.
There are also other patents owned by PRZM waiting for funds, so they too can be pursued.
There is no great secrecy around any of this information--it's all in PRZM's sec filings and anyone considering investing in this stock should read them rather than going by the advice on this board or any other board!
@RinoM: Interesting indeed.
Tho in this case the value of the stock traded was negligible.
And the high point was the lowest by far of all the spikes to date.
Solid buying coming in--any news here?
It's the third time this has happened to my knowledge since the first occurrence on June 10th.
Each time, the stock has been heavily pumped on stocktwits, & has moved to a high which has been successively lower in each case (& on lower volume in each case). the first time the June 10 high was around 70c and the volume was well over a million shares--and i was sure that it was someone who was in a hurry to buy in, rather than a pump & dump. Since then i have to say i'm less certain. The high this third time yesterday was barely 40c, and the volume was 350k, and it went back down faster to the mid 20c range. I own this stock and i believe (from reading the SEC filings) that there are catalysts to drive value (likely in the fall to year end period). I have posted on this board re the facts about PRZM. And I would recommend anyone interested to read the filings and come to your own conclusions. I continue to be happy accumulating the stock at prices under 30c. But I would beware chasing the stock on a sudden jump in price that lasts barely a few hours....
Thanks.
Not sure fli-charge will be enough for spooky to get his money back.
Didn't this company used to be an NPE? Anyone know if there's any patents left to monetize?
What announcement?
Beyond my pay grade to figure this out!
But I certainly didnt see any smart pumping.
And the rapid action looked more like accumulation to me....
Time will tell.
Please share the reasons why you believe this.
I don't see any catalysts til September-December timeframe soonest.
Yup.
Must admit I'm a bit puzzled about that.
I looked everywhere and couldn't find any online pumping.
I do still believe that there are catalysts. Not expecting them to kick in for 3-4 months tho...
It still seems more likely to me that someone just decided they wanted to own 10% of PRZM.
ie ~$1/3 million worth of the stock, they were willing to pay up for it, they bought it & then stopped buying.
If there was real pumping we'd have seen more evidence of it than the feeble posts on this board ;)
Not sure this stock would be very easy to short.
But you'd have to be nuts to short it when the market cap of the entire company is around $3 million, the float is barely $2 million worth of stock and there's potential news catalysts of up to $30 million in revenue ;- )
Call me crazy but I believe that people are just buying & selling it....
I bought another 10,000 PRZM at $0.2950 this morning. I put on the order at 10.06am & it was completed by 10.10a.m. Perhaps it was a little too easy to buy, & there is still overhang out there after the 1 million+ share volume spike to 0.69 on no news as recently as Monday. But I like buying PRZM under $0.30 & I think the company is worth significantly more than its $2.5 million of cash in the bank. The value of their telco industry patents alone, while still under appeal, has been proven in the courts by a judge & jury! As everyone who's read the SEC filings knows, AT&T settled & paid PRZM rather than going to trial. And the Sprint judgement alone, if collected, is worth over $30 million against a current PRZM market cap of around $3 million based on the just over 10 million shares outstanding. So if PRZM collects even a fraction of that award, this will create a war chest to monetize more of the 65 or so patents the company owns. If PRZM collects all of the Sprint award, this is a $3 to $4 stock. Do the math ;)
Of course be aware that PRZM lost to T-Mobile, and is appealing that loss. But I believe that the patent court tide may be turning for NPE's. Plenty of catalysts and a decent risk/reward factor for a speculative investment.... though the risk, as correctly stated in PRZM's SEC filings, is that you will lose all your money, the potential reward is a bare minimum of 10X+ price appreciation. I certainly would not recommend shorting this stock!
I have been watching this stock for a while and bought in when the price fell below the company's cash in the bank. It is a real company though nobody on this board has discussed its fundamentals which makes me suspicious of the motivations of people posting here. I posted about that yesterday and my post was immediately deleted which made me more suspicious. If you read all of the sec filings (and you should before investing) you will see that there are legitimate catalysts around the Sprint win ($30 million+ to PRZM, which S is appealing) and the T-Mobile loss (which PRZM is appealing) which will play out between now and the end of the year. As well as additional patents, which could be monetized if there is any income from the current lawsuits. AT&T chose to pay up rather than risk it further in the courts and that may happen with other telcos.
@makinggains: VRNG has been flopping around a bit today on low volume but looks like it wants to go higher at the moment I'd say.
I agree with others on this board that it's critical this is a smart $8 million in revenue as opposed to a dumb capitulation of valuable rights in order to guarantee another year of management's ability to pig out at the trough of the higher salaries they just awarded themselves.
If the theory that "normal course of business" means that this payment is from an existing customer of VRNG then we're all good. On the other hand, if they're not disclosing the name because it's a new patent offender that's a big company which would have paid us $30 million if our management had negotiated properly, then we're not in good shape at all.
@kennypooh: well spotted and well parsed.
You're on a roll & I'm liking this ZTE theory more and more!
@kennypooh: that's a very interesting theory re other ZTE affiliates around the world.
That would indeed be a way for ZTE to save face by dribbling out a larger agreed payment over time.
While VRNG still benefits from a settlement that might, god forbid, be greater than our total legal costs.
Meanwhile, if this additional payment is not, in fact, from ZTE, why the secrecy around who's paying us?
Interesting re exhibit excluded til 2022.
Meanwhile I'm confused re Lowes case being reassigned on 4/13 to patent judge Katherine Forrest: with ongoing concerns re plaintiff behaviour & jurisdiction.
PLUS ALSO
Lowes case being reassigned on 4/11 to SARAH NETBURN, United States Magistrate Judge "for settlement"--which she went on to accept.
Does Katherine Forrest supercede SARAH NETBURN?
Or is settlement still in play?
Plenty of stock offered yesterday at $2.00-2.10 that was putting a cap on the run. Good to see most of it taken down so far today.
Somebody is pretty aggressively picking up everything on offer--and there isn't much left under $2.
First off, I have to admit to my stupidity in keeping my stock hoping for a miracle.
But it's pretty clear to me that management's goal is to keep issuing themselves and their cronies (iroquois, flicharge etc) ever more stock & options at ever lower prices, until they own the majority of the company as a group and the remaining shareholders have been diluted to practically nothing.
In order to prevail with this strategy it is absolutely critical that management succeeds in doing absolutely nothing that can positively influence the stock price, until they have complete and total control of the company (luckily for them this approach seems to be acceptable so far as BOD governance is concerned).
However it would be helpful if everyone on this board would sell their remaining stock to accelerate the process for management.
Thanks VRNG24: Sinclair's background is as a lawyer & Siegel's is as an auditor--hopefully their resignations aren't in opposition to Perlman's "management" of the company.
The Lowe's news looks good-ish by contrast.
Hope you're right re something big coming up.
We deserve that!
Don't really see how this zte comment helps us as it merely telegraphs that we were starved into capitulation.
Lets hope--or at the very least that they can focus Perlman on monetizing what we have efficiently vs empire building an ever more spurious "holding company"
Agreed, unfortunately.
Management's greatest expertise is in proving conclusively that $1 cash in the bank is worth less to VRNG shareholders than 100 cents because they will steal as much of it as they can, & fritter away a big piece of the rest with incompetence we can count on. I was also hoping for some new news along with the annual results that indicated real progress. But that would likely have required a different management team ;(
Well we agree that Perlman is a s-d.
I'm not 100% convinced that we'd have gone bust before the zte deal without these guys.
But the one thing you can't argue about is that the market has whacked us because this deal stinks to high heaven!
Rainmaker: the reason people are so upset about it is that it just smells bad in a company that has had a history of bad governance in favoring insiders & cronies at the expense of shareholders.
And the market agreed, whacking us by over 20% since the announcement.
Perhaps more of a drubbing than the dilution would have justified because management tried to spin it to look good when it was simply egregious crony-ism. Plus call me crazy but the gratuitous board seat rubbed salt in shareholders wounds.
Arper is right. This is disgraceful. And adds further fuel to the already long list of reasons why shareholders should take action to get rid of Perlman for repeatedly enriching himself at shareholders expense, for likewise enriching his cronies for no acceptable business reason, & for repeatedly lying to the shareholders. Not to mention further diluting shareholders with expensive deals to create the ILLUSION that vrng is a holding company in order to justify his outragous income. All that said tho, we must be rapidly approaching the point where Perlman has successfully issued so much free & below market price stock to himself and cronies that it will no longer be possible to get rid of him. I'm sure that is his plan now that he has destroyed practically all of VTNG's shareholder value beyond the cash (some of which i imagine he will find a way to award to himself in bonuses).
This may be the reason for today's pop--otherwise not entirely sure:
https://vrng24.wordpress.com/2015/04/09/vrng/
not much of a game on friday copperslash--113 shares ;)
were you thinking of the 100 shares which traded at $2.47 at 4.01pm?
or the 13 shares which traded at $2.67 at 4.38pm?
could probably both have been late reports rather than genuine after hours trades anyway, yes?
Would be great if it were earnings related.
There's no indication anywhere online that I can see re when Q4 earnings will be reported.
Q3 date was 11/4.Q4 was quite late last year: 3/16.
Saw it happen. Looked like somebody was in a hurry to buy 150 to 200 thousand shares, on no apparent news and then stopped. Seemed a bit indisciplined. I was able to double my holding at well under $1.50 over the last few weeks. Hopefully we shall see if there was anything more to it.
We're trading well below cash value because it's not our cash. It's Perlman's--he gets to "vote" what little of it remains to himself and his buddies - and the shareholders stand apathetically by ...
I would like to think that there is an ongoing license fee. They do commit (in the 8-k) to filing a copy of the settlement agreement with the vrng annual report, & they do say that certain portions will be confidential so possibly some small hope. But vrng hasn't even bothered to post any news to their website--so am guessing that the answer is, sadly, no. The most important thing is that vrng has enough cash to keep Perlman & cronies overpaid in perpetuity at the expense of shareholders who lost 90%+ of their investment. That's all this was ever about and so we must admire a job well done. Baffling as to who is buying the stock right now unless it's the remaining shorts taking their extremely large profits--I guess the saddest irony of all is that zte will have made way more than $21 million shorting the stock ;(
I don't feel humiliated--I just feel like I was an idiot to trust these cowboys. And especially an idiot to carry on trusting them when they sold so much stock at over $5 and now they get to reload at 32 cents courtesy of the happy shareholders voting them more options as a reward for doing such a fantastic job in losing only 90% of our money so far...