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And besides Dave, nobody keeps a secret better than the Federal government.
Dave you are so close to figuring this out. Why wouldn't companies that have been making big money for decades not bother with cloning this stuff and bumping off the other guys? The ones you mention would love to bump-off their competitors. None of them would break a sweat cloning the unpatented red sauce. Maybe an hour's worth of work in a lab. Ability to paint it on? Some drawings and a trip to a fab shop. Done. All this done with cash, no loans, toxic or otherwise. Why isn't at least one of them willing to take over the market with their existing nationwide footprints? You're so close nailing it.
Perhaps this Eco Red stuff and a clone of it just doesn't work, and their business models aren't built on a stock scam? If not this explanation, then WHY wouldn't one of them be onto this already, and already own the market? They all already have the means to blanket the country with existing resources. They are all doing business with the big boxes. They don't need Conboy to open up a market for them as some suggest, as they already play extensively in those markets. Conboy is the johnny-come-lately.
If not this, then why have all these profit-focused companies with Boards that continually give them the evil eye on profits and future growth (and add Viance) just sat back and allowed Conboy to eat their entire businesses with some red colored sauce. You really think Steve Conboy knows something they don't? His chemistry skills exceed these companies like Dow, Lonza, and Koppers? Really? Just a humble carpenter from Brooklyn? Doesn't make sense does it? Unless you entertain the thought that these guys aren't interested in marketing something that doesn't work because it's not a means to dominate the market, or even sustain just a piece of it.
Have a grand weekend.
Holmes is compensated.
You left one source out. The Dictionary. They can still be handy.
Peanuts compared to the 9/9/14 overnight pump. Or maybe somebody had a stuck key on their device.
Who knows? This is not a standard business model. There's virtually no effort to improve the financial model, make a profit, produce a product that works, or release a PR that's not usually 95% false.
On the other side, you've got a CEO/Board who is focused on his own salary and being a youtube movie star. The stock is driven by lenders who very effectively buy stock at wholesale and turn around and sell it to people who love to buy at retail. Why they don't go direct and get the special wholesale pricing is rather amazing. But the model would collapse then, wouldn't it?
A few things can easily pull a leg off this table, and eventually will. The retail stock buyers bail, the SEC looks into the false PR's and other stuff, the CEO gets wise and quits while HE'S ahead (toxic lenders will hunt him down), the folks looking for the unpaid tax money padlock the scam, a couple independent product performance reports due out over the next couple months are widely read, a lawsuit (he has no cash for defense), a warranty claim he doesn't have the money to pay (this happens to all companies), Home Depot moves on to another supplier (as they often do), Conboy pulls the plug and changes color, again, and number of other things one can add to this list. A house of cards would be a step forward.
Will reiterate a comment I made well over a year ago. Shedding Home Depot would do wonders for the financial model (relatively speaking). Depot eats companies like Eco, as you can see from previous 10-Q's. You're never going to see anything in Eco's SEC filings that reveals the product Depot sends back for coating and the myriad of other reason Depot's customers cull out so much product from vendors, especially on the lumber side. HD is all about a PR for Eco, not a path to profit. Never will be. Add more stores, lose more money. But, it sells stock at retail pricing, and that's what matters in this business model.
There is nothing in this e-mail that everybody doesn't already know. Some folks are obviously extremely comfortable with the status quo, and more so the ones buying stock at wholesale....and Conboy.
This is not a business model for a company planning on a future, nor a buy-out.
What's a "Parnter"? They reference it twice in the article headers, so it must be important.
You may also find it interesting that FEMA believes that LESS treated wood is needed in flood prone areas instead of MORE. I refer you to the new 2015 IRC Section R322.1.8 FEMA and AWC were the ones to introduce that code change and lobby it through the committee and floor vote in Atlantic City last year.
If there is any effort to overturn this and move the mountain in the other direction, it will have to come during the 3-year process for the 2018 codes, which is just starting.
Good Luck Steve!
Only products that can be sold at a profit hold value. New or used.
Just sayin'. If there's anything worth getting, the gov' will get it first.
Looks like some of Conboy's quotes are going to come back to haunt him. He should have put his PR fiction disclaimer at the end of this article:
http://thelinknews.net/2014/09/06/how-a-brooklyn-carpenter-is-changing-the-building-industry/
The last available 10-Q indicates that the government is in the process of 'buying him out' via overdue sales and payroll taxes. State and Feds definitely own a piece of Eco Building Products.
Here's a link to the 'news rag' the Conboy story was plucked from. Seems like the right place for the story.
http://thelinknews.net/category/news/
Would love to see Carl Sagan do a promo for ECOB, especially when he gets to the 'billions and billions of shares' part. He died too young.
Or maybe a quote from an old daytime soap, 'Like sands through the hourglass.....'
Gee, all those posts, and I think they left this one out. Think "O' Little Town of Bethlehem" while you are reading it.
http://thelinknews.net/2014/09/06/how-a-brooklyn-carpenter-is-changing-the-building-industry/
Where's a gallon of that Eco Disaster Break when you need it?
After the painters dilute it, is that over one gallon?
Not a keynote. It's a non-AIA accredited unpaid seminar slot.
Interesting PR from Eco posted on this blog:
http://ih.advfn.com/p.php?pid=nmona&article=63442498
It states ECO CEO Conboy will be 'a keynote speaker'.
Yet, if you go to the actual event page, it lists somebody else as the only keynote speaker:
http://buildexpousa.com/Img/NYC-ShowGuide-web.pdf
If you count the 'stocking' list, this still isn't up into the 100+ locations claimed several months ago. So, it's more of an acknowledgement of the failure of the original PR's level of truth as opposed to new or additional success. Looks like they are still short about 20 stocking stores, or more. Maybe the recoating is making it too difficult to supply new stores?
While I wasn't, your point is important. The NJ location is not listed on the ESR (renewed just a few weeks ago), so nothing coming out of that plant is covered by the terms of the ESR, and also outside the scope of the Depot agreement that Eco posted with the SEC (the ESR stipulation is noted in the first couple pages).
This PR posted on this very blog confirms that Eco is officially in the toilet.
http://ih.advfn.com/p.php?pid=nmona&article=63150424
Don't forget to SWAG the cost of re-coating by the truckload, too. With Depot sending some truckloads back for re-coating, you have to re-factor the Math for XX% of the truckloads being sold to Depot. Those loads don't have a prayer of being in the black (they truly are red). Last I heard, the number was 10 TL's recently, which suggests that the main purpose of the NJ sprayer is re-coating. Without that local back-up, they'd have to send product back to the west coast.....but they can't re-coat there because it's "max'd out", right?
What's the status on the note that's got or had Depot payments being diverted? Is that behind Eco now, or still an issue? There are so many outstanding notes, who can keep up?
Agreed. With James Brown gone, Steve Conboy is the hardest working man is show business.
Politicians use it? Well then it must be infallible. Facebook debate over!
Hmmm, maybe I missed a post directed at me?
If so, in answer to how I get this information. Well, not everything is posted for free on the Internet. There are firms that do research reports and sell them to anybody who wants to buy them. The treated wood industry is somewhat of a spin-off of the massive money tree called the chemical industry, so there are very indepth reports available regarding the industry. It will even tell you who sells how much of what. There are similar reports on solid sawn, EWP, and anything else you need to know to make predictions about the building industry based on actual past performance. The Commerce Dept has a lot of info as well, and it actually is 'free'.
Business is booming. Look at the results for H-D for example, or Boise Building Products, Cedar Creek, etc, etc. The smart folks came out of the recession lean, mean and kicking a**. I know dealers that are turning away business because they can barely handle what they have now. The only tangible limitation today on growth is trucking. The economy can support another 100K trucks, but there are no drivers for them.
Or, I suppose I could read Eco's Facebook page and have a pity party. Others invested, while Conboy spent.
If you look at the numbers, the treated wood market is flying high, with the recession far back in the rear view mirror. Eco is leaning on a lame excuse for a poor ongoing financial picture.
I'm just going by their 10Q's. Are you suggesting they aren't correct?
Why use a credit card when you have pocketfuls of other peoples' cash?
"...lights still on product moving out the doors expansion is defin in play..."
That would be a positive comment, IF Eco was selling at a profit. But, the more Eco sells, the more money they lose. The only link between expansion and profit is negative.
Let's say Eco's business grows 10X. Do the Math. How much money would Eco have to lose to pull that off? That's a LOT of sub-penny stock to sell. Billions of shares won't plug that hole.
What? A picture of bundle of lumber, a bundle of trusses, and a forklift isn't indicative of a load going to Hawaii? How much proof do you need?? The pontoons on the forklift convinced me.
But I didn't see any end tags on the uncoated lumber ends with "AWPA". That's the problem with dying a product red. Everybody can see when you do a lousy job. But who's counting? They can send it to NJ for re-coating.
No doubt, if Conboy posts it, it has got to be true. That much we know. I guess most of the ends aren't coated because it's going to Hawaii.
Then why does ES have their own separate public hearings 3X year for AC development? Because......?
At this point I have to assume you are jerking my chain on this since you are so far off-base.
If you really want to learn something about this, the Code Development hearings start in Ft. Lauderdale on October 1. Walk in, register, and you can sit and watch the process. You can even give testimony! If you are an AHJ, you can vote as well. You can go to ICC's website and see which code sections are on the agenda. They don't all come up at the same time.
ICC-ES has their next public hearing in October. I'm SURE you know that AHJ's do the voting on proposed criteria, and not anyone on ES Staff can vote. You knew that, right? Should be the first or second week of the month (the particulars are posted on their website), including which location the hearing will be at. You can also walk right into those hearings. You can give testimony there as well during the AC development process.
In both cases, you can tell your friends to watch you on the streaming video on the web.
Since you believe ICC-ES does testing, maybe you can tell us what ASTM tests you are referring to.
Dig a little deeper. ICC-ES doesn't do testing. It's all paper-pushers. Go to their offices sometime and ask to see the test lab. Closest thing they have is a kitchen. So, how reliable is the rest of your post?
Not very.
ICC-ES is camping onto a legacy that is not theirs. ICC-ES is part of ICC. ICC was formed in 1995. ICC-ES was built out of pieces of the legacy code organizations (see quoted material from ICC below).
So if years matter, as you suggest, then TPI and AWPA are the go-to guys. Not ICC-ES. Note: ICC-ES uses AWPA references quite liberally as do the I-Codes (read the ECOB ES report you posted if you don't believe me). Same for the AC. So, if you going to slam AWPA, you are tainting those that are using their specs for profit, such as ICC and ICC-ES.....and ECOB, though ECOB has been ordered to stop. (Longvester is correct on that point)
History
The International Code Council (ICC) was established in 1994 as a non-profit organization dedicated to developing a single set of comprehensive and coordinated national model construction codes. The founders of the ICC are Building Officials and Code Administrators International, Inc. (BOCA), International Conference of Building Officials (ICBO), and Southern Building Code Congress International, Inc. (SBCCI). Since the early part of the last century, these non-profit organizations developed three separate sets of model codes used throughout the United States. Although regional code development has been effective and responsive to our country’s needs, the time came for a single set of codes. The nation’s three model code groups responded by creating the International Code Council and by developing codes without regional limitations; the International Codes.
Ask him to post the letter from AWPA on his FaceBook page. Or better yet, put out a PR addressing that letter. Nimou wants to know about it.
Hey, did Conboy get his GED?
http://www.ecob.net/index.php?p=blog
All Hail to your optimism! Bravo!
He should talk to the guy that is selling with inside information instead of exercising his full disclosure obligation, which would be Eco CEO Steve Conboy. That's where he needs to press. Steve gets paid at least $300K/year to keep traders informed. Call collect!
Dear Mr. or Ms. Bull,
Please note. It wasn't me that brought it back up. I am patiently waiting on Convoy to fully disclose.
No allusion. Waiting on Steve to come clean. Let him put the best spin on it. That's his job, which he is paid handsomely to do.