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wbmw - lots of chinwagging...
is all I'm doing at this point. I take your point about the I2 being compared being an "elderly" model, in chip terms, and that the new one will be faster. I gotta say, the newer incarnations of I2 are quite impressive overall, and I personally wouldn't mind if we eventually all switch over to it.
I just hope AMD catches enough of the profitability window until then to make me some $$$
neye
OT - Paul - angelfire apparently doesn't like direct linking
but, folks can see the pic by copying and pasting the line into the address bar. By the way, that pic is crazy! Looks painful, but at the same time, I'm very glad that you're on the path to recovery. crazy stuff man, crazy stuff. Best of luck to you,
neye
not addressed to me, but I'll answer
What made you rout for AMD in 2002 when they were well behind Intel and losing droves of money?
don't forget - many of us didn't, and sat it out.
I think it's amazing, though woefully typical, to see the same people who did rout for AMD in 2002 based on empty promises, now grow skeptical that Intel can ever turn around in the same way.
Ok, you're using the word "ever". I'd say most people here think AMD will have an absolute x86-** advantage for a few months, but don't stretch it into ever. Again, I understand you addressed the post to fpg, so this may not be relevant to your post.
Though you have to admit that if Intel shrink Northwood and gave it the same micro-architectural enhancements that Prescott has, it would be 10-15% higher performance per clock and probably not be faced with the same power issues, allowing it to hit 4GHz even easier.
I feel like Elmer should be here, saying "woulda shoulda coulda", or something like that
I believe AMD will continue to innovate, but I feel that Intel has more low hanging fruit just by moving a Dothan derivative onto the desktop.
won't agree or disagree with that, as I don't have a crystal ball, but it makes sense to me.
As for IPF, I am still surprised that last year's chip continues to outperform AMD's yet to be released Opteron 250 on several benchmarks, still.
I surprised that a puny little Opteron continues to outperform the big bad 6MB cache 1.5Ghz I2 on the same software platform. what a disgrace.
Yet IPF is also limited by a slower front side bus and memory interface, and software development is still in relatively early stages.
True, and aHT isn't supposed to increase in speed (oh, wait, it is), never use higher clocked memory (oh, wait, it is), and no apps will ever benefit from being compiled to 64bit native for x86-64 (oh wait, they will). sounds pretty ambiguous to me, not a clear cut win for IPF.
Moreover, it's a second generation micro-architecture, and many of the current learnings will be applied towards the third.
True, and K8s are much older than the Itanium family of chips :p Understood that IA64 is younger than x86, but the incarnation fo A64s are younger than then Itanium family, and can also benefit from optimized coding, compilers, and chip design.
There is literally tons of headroom left, while x86 is nearing a peak.
I think you accidentally left out some words. The proper quote from, oh, 10 years ago or so is:
"There is literally tons of headroom left in RISC chips, while x86 is nearing a peak."
Yeah, I think that's about what we heard from Jobs and mot and ibm in roughly 1994, when the first PPCs were being put into macs. Sucks that x86 has been sucking wind all these years and not increasing processing power, while the RISC chips have been real barn burners.
Amazingly, Intel is still making out very well with the Prescott core in spite of all its deficiencies. Intel is strong company with many assets, many strong engineers, and very good marketing.
Leave out the (IMO obsequious) word "amazingly", and you have complete argument from me in this statement. Actually, the rest of your post, too, I agree with:
The next couple years are AMD's to enjoy if they can execute, but Intel is working towards next generation hardware and they have a goal to exceed. That's a much different position as opposed to being on top and underestimating the competition.
neye
WB Paul (eom)
cachet - fonts
just in case the article covers anything you don't already know...:
http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/20000.html
Font Fatigue: Pruning Excess Fonts in Mac OS X
Managing your font libraries in Mac OS X is a multi-step process. The first of these was knowing where to look. The second, covered here, is getting rid of duplicates and stashing them in places where they can do no harm. OS X-transition consultant Chuck Weger shows you how.
not that anyone seems to care
but here's a new press release just out about the new to-be-crowned (supposedly) top super computer, based (entirely? loosely?) on that Red Storm model by Cray I was talking about in my prior post. Well, reading it, now, it isn't clear that "the big one" will be red-storm based, but they're adding a "mini" (20 Tflop) supercomputer based on Red Storm
hehe, supercomputers aren't commodities, but they're heading that direction
Cray Inc. Will Team With ORNL to Provide 100-Teraflop Department of Energy Leadership-Class Supercomputer
World's Most Powerful Computer Could Grow To 250 Teraflops in 2007
SEATTLE--(BUSINESS WIRE)--May 12, 2004-- Global supercomputer leader Cray Inc. (Nasdaq:CRAY) today announced that it will collaborate with the Department of Energy's Oak Ridge National Laboratory (ORNL) to provide the world's most powerful supercomputer. The leadership-class system will be used for advanced scientific research.
A 100-teraflop (trillions of calculations per second) Cray system at Oak Ridge is planned for 2006, with the potential to grow to 250 teraflops in 2007. Near-term plans call for increasing the capacity of the current Cray X1(TM) supercomputer at ORNL to 20 teraflops in 2004, with a 20-teraflop Red Storm-based system from Cray added in 2005. The systems will be housed in ORNL's new National Leadership Computing Facility in Oak Ridge, Tennessee.
neye
lango - I dunno about that...
Apple has NEVER competed for the bottom third of the market. EVER.
Perhaps I'm wrong. I'll admit to being just in middle school or high school at the time, but I seem to remember a MacWorld issue that had the three new macs on the cover, the Si, the LC, and Classic, or something like that (maybe fx si and classic???). A big deal was made of the fact that the classic broke the $1000 barrier, and was retailing for $999.
Like I said, I'm young(ish) so I could be wrong, but wouldn't $999 10 years ago be in the bottom 1/3 of standard PC prices?
Also, what about the pizza box macs (LC 475 anyone?)? Again, I was just starting college when they were out, and don't have any idea what industry prices were like, but I'm assuming that they couldn't have been that pricey, given that the 6100/7100/8100 were being sold at the same time, I think.
neye
as I said, it's pointless
... but I still find it amusing. I looked here:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/64bit/ipf/ia32el.mspx
and found:
Performance will vary by application when using IA-32 EL. For 32-bit managed code applications (for example, those built on the .NET Framework), Microsoft recommends using native 32-bit hardware.
Sounds like this is much better than the initial incarnation of 32-bit code performance. I hadn't heard about this, and that's actually pretty good, it seems. I thus amend my statement to read:
It's also accurate to say that this year's IPF performs about the same as the P4s from 2.5 years ago
:D
neye
lango - supercomputer/clusters
It's been quite a while now since Big Mac hit the scene, and lots more largescale cluster projects have been announced -- none that I'm aware of planning to use Macs.
One interesting development in this neck of the woods is that Cray is now selling "built to order" type clusters that are based on a common design (red storm). So far I think that they've sold three such supercomputers using this "predesigned, you just choose the options" model. I haven't followed this too closely, but if you google for redstorm cray sandia you should get some good info on their scheme, I'd bet.
neye
wbmw, funny game
It is also accurate to say that last year's IPF performs worse or better than today's Opteron.
It's also accurate to say that this year's IPF performs worse than last decade's pentium 2s.
I think this game is pointless, yet fun. let's find all the contextual amusements in software configuration and exploit them
neye
NewHerb - Sasser
The recent Sasser worm infected all the computers in her sorority except her lone iBook.
I'm *not* saying that I don't believe you, but I find it sad that in an environment where broadband is assumedly commonplace (or are sorority/frat houses not wired), that not a single person would have automatic updates running on their windows machines, or that not one of them would have heard about the whole ordeal and applied the patch manually (6 clicks of the mouse as I mentally count them).
Of course, it's also sad that it is necessary for that to be the case, but given that it is the case, it's disheartening that none of them realized their situation (living in a windows world) and took the preventive measures then, or took the precaution to use a hardware firewall or turn on windows's hardware firewall.
neye
doug - IPF software
is the breadth of [IPF] software availability and that is improving at a steady pace.
Until it fell off a cliff when iAMD64 was announced by Intel.
I don't believe or disbelieve you. What data are you basing this statement from?
neye
lango, the online population is coming on fast...
Though it may seem small to you, the roughly 45% of the Mac base on OS X is larger than than the percentage of Windows users working on Win XP.
Since it's the net population that uses google, it's obviously going to show more XP adoption than the general WinPC ecosystem, but I had no idea WinXP had so much of a marketshare.
http://www.google.com/press/zeitgeist.html
WinXP: 47%
Win2k: 18%
Win98: 22%
Win95: 01%
WinNT: 03%
So, of the 91% of computers that visited google which were windows based, WinXP (released October 2001) made up 52%
neye
why can't we buy these...?
taken from SI: http://www.siliconinvestor.com/stocktalk/msg.gsp?msgid=20116913
Fujitsu-Siemens Destktop A64:
AMD Athlon 64/ 2200 MHz/ RAM: 512 MB/ RAM max.: 2048 MB/ HDD: 80 GB/ EIDE/ Festplattenanzahl Standard: 1/ FDD 1.44/ Optische Laufw.: DVD/CD-RW Combo/ Grafikkarte: VIA V8M800/ VRAM: shared memory MB/ AGP Slot: 8fach/ PCI Slots: 3/ Einschübe 3/
Leads to this page:
http://www.it-einkauf.de/Produktinfo/Fujitsu_Siemens_Computers_SCENICO_P320_ATH64-3200+_512_M_Person...
with a price of $791 Euros, which I believe is around $950, *including* WinXP Pro???
Uh, where do I sign up? If someone could provide a business desktop of this caliber and price (lose the CD-Burner) on this side of the atlantic, I'll be quite happy to buy them.
neye
Pentium M desktop motherboardss
courtesy of posters at Aces who were answering Johan's question as to whether or not they exist:
http://www.radisys.com/oem_products/ds-page.cfm?productdatasheetsid=1158
http://www.globalamericaninc.com/products_services/sbc/2807598.php
http://www.radisys.com/oem_products/ds-page.cfm?productdatasheetsid=1158
So, take them FWTW. Dothan and Banias are socket compatable, right? So this should be just a bios update to let Dothan work in these quasi-desktop mobos?
neye
ChrisC_R - re: 32 bit purchases
for work I'm still buying 32 bit machines because no one is offering an A64 business desktop. So, there's nothing to differentiate the Dells from the CPQs / HPs / Sonys (that matters to us, at least), we'll keep with our standard Dell purchases.
A shame, really, cause some of the people further up the chain than myself are interested in the NX feature, and would be willing to try some out if the A64 machines were sold through the business channels.
AMD's loss, Dells gain.
And, for home computers, I'm much more willing to pay $80 for a drop-in upgrade on my 333 and 400 FSB Athlon XP boards than $300 for a new mobo and cpu that wouldn't be much faster than the 32bit AXPs and would treat me to the pleasure of the hardware and software install time that it would necessitate.
For a new machine, I'll definitely be more amenable to an A64 solution, but for the next year or two, I don't need any more power than the AXPs can deliver, I'm guessing.
but that's just me. If I were advising someone who was buying/building brandnew, I'd probably advise an A64 3000 or 2800 if both cost and performance are considerations.
neye
DDB, sounds like a plan re: Dothan
Intel mentions following Dothan enhancements:
...
- and the 2MB L2
that's probably what I'd do if I were Intel as well:
1) they're good at cache - capitalize on a strength
2) cache isn't a high power-consuming feature, as I understand it
3) it can often mean a very significant performance gain
4) it's not like Intel's going to be capacity constrained on these.
Seems like more cache really is a good way for Intel to go, overall. AMD would probably love to know what INTC does about cache densities.
neye
baldrick - ipod minis
A coworker of mine received one as a gift this week. I don't know how far in advance her boyfriend bought it for her. We're in Northern Virginia and the iPod mini was pink, if you're curious.
neye
DDB - thanks - nice link (eom)
DDB, tenchu - thanks - add'l question
so... if these are the for processing vertices, does that then mean that a 3x3 (forgetting about the normalization Tenchu explained) are x,y,z coordinates for each vertex of the same triangle, or is it more complicated than that + normalization?
Loved Linear Programming because it was powerful and applicable. Hated Linear Algebra because I found the theory/basis that made all the other stuff possible to be very dry. Now I'm wishing I remembered more...
Thanks again,
neye
to board - generic register / matrix question
computer graphics and simulation codes typically process 3D vertex data by performing matrix math. Matrices are usually 3x3 or 3x4 elements.
Would I be correct to assume that the matrices described are either:
3 triangle vertices x 3 color components (RGB)
or
3 triangle vertices X 4 color components (RGBalpha)
It seems to make sense to me, but I'm not sure. This may not have much technical relevance, but I'm often curious as to the real-world connection to what happens inside these chips.
TIA,
neye
dileet - depends on perspective
For.99 for an iTMS song and about .25 for a 12 oz can of Pepsi, it was not a winning proposition for me. The 20 oz bottles I saw, were 1.25@ in a major supermarket and not available in cases or six packs
my g/f and I bought sodas while in Fla for daytona bikeweek. I'd read that you really can tell which ones are winners in short order by holding the bottle at a certain angle, and definitely verified it: my g/f and I went 6 for 6. Made the value proposition a lot higher. Pretty much feel like a fool when doing it, but it works, and is fast, so I didn't mind.
Then again, we never redeemed the songs - I was going to set up itunes on her and my computer but just never got around to it. Downloadable music just has minimal/no importance to us.
neye
Yofal - I flew on them - was GREAT
They even take requests for which version of the safety rules and regs you hear. Someone requested the funk version, so we had a recorded Barry White voice going over the standard fair, with occasional extraneous tidbits thrown in for flair.
The menus were done quite well, and were even a bit amusing, and I watched tech tv for the flight home (don't have it on cable at home - first time I've watched the channel). All in all, a very pleasant surprise for my tastes, YMMV.
neye
Thanks Dan - appreciate the info (eom)
sgolds, k.dust - that's what worries me some...:
IBM stepped out on the bleeding edge to work out problems on G5.
I have heard no indication that the G5 problems have been fixed. granted, there are rumors that the G5 problems were related to the packaging, but still. IMO opinion something has obviously been unanticipated, or you we wouldn't have these pictures from last june. fyi, current G5s top out at 2Ghz.
neye
clearsailing - to be clear...
It isn't a case of you finding a frequency in duluth and then giving it to me in New England and it will work. the frequency has to be available.
AFAIK, KVW and my father (and me, for that matter, I live close to my dad) live extremely close to each other. For that reason I would guess that it's a relatively good bet that frequencies that work for my father would also work for normal metro-area commutes for Kevin.
neye
sgolds, thanks for confirming...
... I too have seen the nice laptops, but I really need desktop machines. I really didn't think there were any out there, but hoped that maybe I was missing something. Ah well, back to the dell site. Thanks again for checking,
neye
Kev - iTrip
my dad uses it and is very pleased with it in both a pickup truck and sedan. He drives from falls church out to reston for his daily commute, and has apparently found a good frequency. If I remember I'll find out what freq. he uses,
neye
any major OEM making a business A64 desktop?
Having trouble finding any. We're a small division and have actually be given some purchasing leeway, and there's interest from above about the NX flag along with XPSP2. But, in my cursory examiniations didn't see any major OEM (in the U.S.) selling Business A64 machines. Am I out of luck? Purchasing from the home division is not really an option regardless of how logical or illogical that may seem.
TIA,
neye
sorry if old news - market underperform
Just noticed this, apologies if already posted:
http://app.quotemedia.com/quotetools/newsItem.htm?storyId=36201556&topic=AMD
neye
OT: Bootz, you're an odd bird...
... but amusing. keep up the good posts
neye
tecate - amusing (eom)
OT - Best of luck man
let us know how it goes,
neye
In Praise of SuSE
I love the installer, I like KDE, I love the YaST for updating all the software right off the disks. I like windows more still, yet here I am, typing this message, and actually had to look up at the browser window to remember if I had the KVM switched to my linux box or my windows box (I use firefox on both Win and Lin).
SuSE has impressed me, a total linux n00b, very much. Heck, even the installer played nice with my USB mouse with pretty colors in 800 x 600 resolution. That and that it did all the dual booting stuff without problems as well... I've definitely been impressed wth SuSE as a package.
neye
heh, that was for your benefit
Ouch, that hurts. My BS is in Marine Science
Yah, I remember that RB conversation when you cleared up the conceptions many of us had about your handle on the boards. figured I'd throw in that comment just for kicks
Read the book. Get a Xilinx development board and WebPack and go to town. If nothing else, you will have a perspective that is much lacking with too many software people. I'll never forget when a recent CS asked me what registers were...
I'd love to do something like that. I always tell myself that someday I'll do it, it's just that the someday always seems to be tomorrow.
neye
m.moy, comb - thanks much
I appreciate the explanations from both of you on the SSE v AtliVec performance differences.
Funny that, in a separate functional system that was designed in part to work with matrices quickly, there wouldn't be a native transpose "function" in hardware that would accomplish what m.moy needs...
Thanks for the book reference CJ. If software background is enough, in your opinion, to get something out of it, maybe it's accessible enough for me to start into. I hear some folks made it all the way from bio to EE-type careers, so maybe software to basics of hardware shouldn't be too much of a leap...
neye
@sgolds, m.moy, comb - SIMD
it seems to be the thinking that SSE.* doesn't do columnar operations, and m.moy has posited that there doesn't seem to be much optimization left in this regard.
So, my question for y'all is, how is it that the AltiVec unit(s) in the G4(5)s do so well at the MD part of SIMD compared to the x86 vectorization units?
I have a friend doing postgrad biochem at an ivy league school and they looked into opteron, xeon, and G5 solutions, and were able to get more than 2x the performance in a lot of their tasks due to the superior nature of the G5 vector units.
Is it just a matter of having started with SSE, and it would be impractical to go to a solution that really works and have all that software to rewrite/recompile?
thanks in advance,
neye
Kumar resigns - old news?
sorry if old news - just saw it on TV. no link, no recollection if already discussed. just a head's up in case it was new news,
neye
"the mp3 of 3d"
Interesting article. wonder if it will actually get traction:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/21/intel_u3d/
Intel, Adobe, Microsoft and more than 30 other companies have said they will co-operate to conjure up a standard for 3D graphics.
Dubbed the Universal 3D (U3D) format, the intention is to create a way of encoding 3D data as freely available as MP3 for audio and JPEG for still images. Intel and co.'s goal is to end the array of proprietary 3D graphics formats devised by CAD, 3D and other software developers and replace it with a single, standard format that all can use.
neye
chris - good find, but neater trick
Intel now holds a 96.9 percent share in the X86 server processor market, compared to 4.8 percent for AMD.
that's a big market, eh? would be nice to know where to shave the extra 2 points off? 2.8 -> 4.8 is 70% increase. Hopefully the article is wrong on the INTC number and not the AMD number.
neye