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Who owns KeyCorp?? Does this relate somehow with KKR/WMIH?
10/18 Yahoo Finance: Weak market for First Data IPO could help investors: FDC in my opinion is a good LT Value BUY opportunity at $16 because IPO is primarily paying down FDC debt.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/weak-market-for-first-data-ipo-could-help-investors-114108910.html#
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10/18 Yahoo Finance: Weak market for First Data (FDC) IPO could help investors:
The company is looking to raise $3 billion by going public this week and reversing its disastrous 2007 leveraged buyout.
Spun off from American Express (AXP) in 1992, First Data was bought by KKR (KKR) for $26 billion eight years ago. Then the financial crisis hit and First Data's business cratered. At one point, KKR reportedly cut its valuation for First Data by 40%.
But times have changed. Two years ago, KKR brought in a new CEO, Frank Bisignano, a banker with long experience in credit cards and processing at Citigroup (C) and JPMorgan Chase (JPM). He raised $3.5 billion of private equity to cut the company's massive debt load. Now the proposed IPO could shave another $3 billion off its debt. If the deal succeeds, it will be the biggest IPO of the year by far (current title holder Tallgrass Energy raised $1.3 billion in May).
An opportunity to cut debt
The IPO market has been rough the past few months, with deal flow down 43% in the third quarter from last year. Recent market turmoil hit newly IPOed companies pretty hard. Renaissance Capital's IPO Index lost 17% in the third quarter versus the S&P 500's 7% drop.
But all of this may set up First Data for a decent valuation when it comes public. All of the proceeds are going to reduce debt -- cutting borrowings at interest rates of 11.25% and 12.625% -- and the company has said it also has opportunities to refinance at lower rates some of the $18 billion debt load that will remain after the IPO.
That could generate some net income -- the company lost $138 million in the first six months of 2015 but that was interest costs of $813 million. On a pro forma basis, interest costs would drop to $630 million for the half year given the debt that will be paid off.
And once the company gets out of debt jail, it's poised to take advantage of the continuing shift away from paying with cash to credit and debit. U.S. credit, debit and prepaid cards generated $5.2 trillion of transactions last year, up 8% from 2013, according to the Nilson Report.
"Using the cash to pay down debt is a big help to improve the cash flow situation," says William Preston, senior research analyst at Renaissance. And given the weak market conditions, "the valuation could be compelling."
Still, competition is coming from all directions, ranging from high tech upstarts Square and Stripe to more established processors like Heartland Payment Systems (HPY) and Fiserv (FISV). Revenue growth has been muted despite the continuing boom in credit card usage rates. Sales of $5.6 billion in the first half of 2015 were up less than 2% from the same period last year.
The IPO is being jointly led by Citigroup, Morgan Stanley (MS), BofA Merrill Lynch (BAC) and KKR. The underwriters have indicated that they want to price the deal at $18 to $20, but Preston says most IPOs in the past few weeks have hit the market at prices below the expected range. That's helped performance -- seven of the past eight deals then traded above their initial offering price.
This is a Very Long Term value play, if you are willing to hold for a LONG TIME. If you buy now...be prepared to hold for years, but will eventually pay off. Its a good overall company with a long history but has run into trouble. If you dont have the patience to wait...right now invest in something else until you notice FDC debt vanish and revenue grow....then jump in.
Good call! I think that is HIGHLY POSSIBLE. Bad News for us if we lost out on that one.
Any reason to suspect the failed deal was with FDC? Any educated guesses out there?
Great Summary. I will also hold WMIH until the time is right. I am not going to give this WMIH stock away for "free." KKR may have messed up recently, but they are older, seasoned managers...should know what they are doing. Too many wealthy insiders involved in this.
Investors may stay clear of First Data IPO because of its current debt.
Many brokers are advising against FDC as an IPO investment UNTIL the debt is reduced. Brokers advise it is a good value play LT...but not until debt is reduced.
If the FDC debt is reduced with WMIH NOL shell, then FDC would be a great Merger?? KKR basically owns both companies.
Thoughts?
I see your point. KKR wants to run with a 3 Billion IPO for FDC. IPO proceeds will be used to repay senior notes that are due in 2021 and have interest rates above 11% as part of a broad plan to restructure First Data's capital and improve its profitability and FCF.
KKR leveraged the purchase of FDC and is still 21 Billion in debt on books for the purchase. Does it make sense to merge the 2 companies? WMIH has the NOL Carryover to wipe away the debt on KKRs books for FDC, and FDC is just the kind of company we are looking for...
First Data generates revenues from three business lines:
1.Global Business Solution (GBS) - Provides retail point-of-sale and e-commerce services that include mobile payments, web-store solutions and a cloud-based, point-of-sale operating system.
2.Global Financial Solutions (GFS) - Provides credit solutions for bank and non-bank issuers. Services include retail private-label cards, financial software systems and lending solutions.
3.Network and Security Solutions (NSS) - Provides value-added solutions, such as electronic funds transfer, network solutions, debit card processing solutions, security and fraud solutions, mobile wallets support and more.
After the FDC IPO, do you feel First Data will be the company WMIH will purchace? Seems to make sense from where I sit.
Latest WMIH News just posted.......any comments out there?
From what I see, its just a graduation announcement from the OTC Market congratulating WMIH on the NAZ uplist.
I agree with you 100%. I did not sell ANY shares today for that reason.
I don't blame any long term holders here for selling a portion of our WMIH holdings. We have been waiting so long...8 years in my case, and as we all know finances will dictate what we do. Bills have to be paid, as I have taken profit here and there as well. We all assumed the price would jump in the open with the new NASDAQ listing, and knew many, but not all would take some profit right away.
Remember that's all that is happening here with the PPS. Don't let the PPS drop worry you. Time will show everything. Im in this for the LT.
Don't try to time the market, but invest and hold/sell based on company DD. Good luck and good fortune to all.
Thanks again LG. Retained assets are still there, and will carry through. They belong to Escrow no matter what, so we need not worry. WMIH is now with NASDAQ...we need not worry. Anyone with negativity using scare tactics needs to relax please. I have to wonder what possible motives would drive this.
Hopeful as always but realistic. Good luck to all, and stay with value investing...go Long Term. Try not to scare new WMIH investors away with too much fear in this chat please.
Cheers
I'm with you Dion! Well put. I've been with you though it all as well - WamPQ pre reorg and holding steady.
Thanks again. Still hopeful, yet always realistic
-K
Hahahaha We are all awake at the same time looking at this board at the same time, so obviously we are very interested to see how this goes.
Good luck to all, and if not... well, so it goes. Good nite, and again, good luck to all.
I've been here since the beginning as well. Past 7 years nearly drove me crazy, and I've had everything tied up in WMPQ/WMIH since then. I probably will end up in early retirement now, but will never give up my investing hobby.
So...what's next for us to invest in??? Any idea for the parlay? I have been putting off thinking about my next investment move for 7 years since WMIH had most everything I had in my Roth.
Now what? I am SO relieved it may be over soon.
Read WMIH NASDAQ Securities Registration (section 12(b))(8-a12b)- This news was posted today.
Please clarify. The 500k in escrow...is this from UQ/PQ???
The number in front corresponds to how many shares you will receive = 85
Look in Transaction History...they will be there in Pending status.
For Example:
08/03/15 Reorganization 823 WMIH CORP COM STOCK DISTRIBUTION FROM 939ESC992 AT 0.095562/SHARE
Check under "Transaction History" in your account. That's where you'll find it. I just found mine there. Shares are in a pending status...possibly till tomorrow maybe?? They are not yet in my main balance either.
Etrade still shows nothing new
My new shares have not hit my etrade acct yet. Anyone else?
Because August 1, 2015, is not a “business day,” Section 32.2 of the Plan provides that the distribution shall occur
on the next succeeding business day, or, in this case, August 3, 2015.
WAMPQ?
Who is receiving more shares of WAMIH stock? I used to own old WAMPQ and signed releases long ago. I do have Escrow Shares.
If we receive all or part of a distribution in cash, I'm seriously thinking of investing back into WMIH. Anyone want to offer any thoughts on that possible decision??
I will be casting Votes via email now. Are we voting "YES" to all?
Just remember, you will have to pay income tax on all of that for 2015, but its better to pay now, than when this money is worth more.
I love watching this chat daily, and love the great DD from Large Green and others.
Its a shame we no longer feel free to make the educated guess on how many multiples of PAR we think may come, for fear of others making fun of the guess.
I've been here since 2008 and do not post very often. Thanks for your answer LG, although vague. I understand, and will wait for the outcome as will we all.
LG you have my support and gratitude.
LG: What is the best educated guess $$ return to us, per Escrow share/LTI ???
In the case of my Roth IRA, money has been in my IRA more than 5 years, and I could qualify for early retirement without tax or penalty. If the Escrow funds are mailed to me in cash, and I send it back to etrade for deposit in my Roth IRA, would this be considered a new deposit to a ROTH IRA, thus forcing me to leave it in another 5 years???
I don't want the cash mailed to me. I want it to be left in my Roth IRA, so I can start the process of early retirement without tax or penalty. How can I make that happen?
Based on that great post, what do you estimate our Escrow Shares to come in at? I have been in this since 2008 and have always believed in the Escrow shares ...even after 6 years.
I got excited for a second. I thought the dividend was being paid to WMIH stockholders. It's going to which Bondholders?
How much do we expect the Dividend to be, per share?
"WMI Holdings Corp. (the “Company”), received approval from the State of Hawaii, Insurance Division, to declare a dividend of $16.5 million."
Its alllll cool! I am grateful for the advice...really. You're the only one who even cared to respond. You seem really nice...a rarity on these blogs.
I just constantly have a chip on my shoulder about no one believing what I did was even possible. No worries at all.
I'm just grateful I never listened to anyone telling me it could not be done. Remember: follow your gut and trust your instincts. If you follow your passion, you will only make money. I am living proof. It takes time for some like me that start with nothing, but if you follow the path to wealth...eventually you get to your destination.
Play Nice Boys! Come on now...all thoughts are welcome...we weigh the options based on differing opinions. We are stressed out today based on the stock price...no need to fight with each other. The # of posts today doing just that it a world record.
Thanks for the honest reply on the background of shorting. I am honest with you...it is all 100% true about my passion for making money, and the fact that something does not sound likely, does not make it untrue.
Back in 1982 the interest rates on CDs were very high. I started there, I was OBSESSED with making money/interest...even at my communion at age 7, when I opened my first bank book with that money ...still have it.
From birthdays and 18% yearly interest, and working cleaning houses and babysitting...I saved thousands of dollars by 17, bought a car, and I opened my first IRA after an investment banker taught me all the basics of compound interest, and how to make a million dollars. I then saved 10-30% of my income yearly through now. I have already done it on schedule...in my ROTH IRA.
Penny stocks/WAMU has brought me 18,000% return, per my etrade acct. I know...crazy, and 100% true...go figure, a girl like me no one takes seriously...you and my hubby are all that know, and I like it that way.
I have been in the stock market/real estate in different ways for the last 25 years..learning on my own and have a great education I paid for. I am from poor parents, but not afraid to be honest about my beginnings...knowing it will cause taunting from disbelief. I WANT TO LEARN FROM YOU the background reasons for it...not from Google about shorting...that's why I asked YOU. Thank you.
This answer is completely what I needed to hear. I've been in it since 11/2008...
I've seen the PK go from $1 to $100 and watched it s.l.o.w.l.y go back again to limited value. I still did not sell all. I just sold enough to buy a new car, removing all my original investment capital from the prior 25 yrs investing.
I'm still convinced this is a long term winner for all. I would rather this come to an end soon, but I have the patience...I hope you all do too. No worries here.
May you all have good fortune here!!
I had Preferred shares...go the other way...to make things easy, divide 260000 WMIH by 20. Ive been investing from pleasure since I was 10 yrs old...Im now 42.
I saw a good deal in WAMU Preferred, sunk everything I had in the world, and have been sitting on it for 6 yrs. I still live paycheck to paycheck, as do most of you, and look at this chat daily.
I still have complete faith this will work out, as the #'s speak for themselves. This is taking a ridiculous time to complete.
I do ask all for a better education on shorts, out of respect for a long time WAMUer ...please someone can you help me? I ask out of respect for my fellow peers here. What is shorting?