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When was that? Before or after this past trial with the Appealate Court? It is my understanding there were talks with the major credit card companies which produced no settlement...thus the succeeding court trials.
Long is the only way to go on this. And with a very possible 10X or more reward, a wait of 1-2 years does not bother me at all.
As for the "legal fees", 30% is what my lawyer friends say is common. I used 50% so the math would be eaiser to do...:)... and a more conservative figure would result. In all truth, this thing could very possibly reach $8-$10/share or more. But to mention that would only draw more cynacism.
Do appreciate your comments, knowledge, facts and Due diligence. Keep up the good work. I plan on buying more if I am able...
As I mentioned in a previous post, MC in 2009, or 2010, annual report, in the footnotes, set aside $400 million for future legal losses. It was done/announced shortly after the SMME suit was brought. When you add even half of that amount from at least four major credit card companies plus banks, substact 50% for legal fees--$540 million seems conservative to me.
I believe I have heard of amounts for damages being appealled. However, with MC and V making record profits this past quarter, and this being a "David and Goliath" type of situation, I doubt it will go to trial. There certainly will be talks of an out of court settlement between the parties. Whether or not there is agreement is another issue.
If there is an appeal I believe it goes to a judge and not another jury.
CI=Cash Infusion
If, via the settlement of a lawsuit, a company receives a CI that, apart from R or E, will also effect a price change in the stock.
If a company has 108 million shares outstanding and it receives $540 million in a settlement of a lawsuit. (That's $5/share of cash.) As an investor, what do you think the stock price should be? NO E; NO P. Balance Sheet shows $5/share in cash. Is it still worth $.30/share?
I'd pay more for it than that...
So I'm suggesting you broaden your outlook on the valuation of the price of a stock and consider ALL means which will cause the price of a share of stock to change. IT is more than just R & E.
Hey Shamus8, where does CI come into the equation?
Your understanding of "normal" growth of a stock price is without question. But when the unusual takes place your formula seems to break down.
I suggest you read the 2nd edition of the book where they expand stock price increase beyond your present understanding and outlook.
There is a Balance Sheet which also affects the price of the stock. I believe you are intelligent enough to include it, also, into your formula.
My wife and I hold a nice position--over 20K. Let me suggest to you believers in SMME that you purchase some in a ROTH IRA. As you know ALL profits earned in a ROTH IRA are TAX FREE. No capital gains tax; no income tax.
If you have the time to wait to pull out the gains--whenever they may come--your investment today will be even more beneficial to you.
Most of our holdings is in my wife's Roth IRA. It will be 6 years until we can pull it out. But when we do, it will be tax free!!!
Just a thought...
In one sense your question re: price is impossible to answer. It is based on a number of factors, the least of which are:
Will the trial by jury for patent infringment damages, set to go to trial in July of 1213, take place or will there be an earlier out of court settlement? DON'T KNOW.
How much will the damages be? Well, will it be based on the number of cards in use?...or the number of times the cards were used?...or the amount of funds used by the cards?...or some other criteria? DON'T KNOW
OR MAYBE if it goes to trial Goliath(MC/V) will beat David(SMME) and we will be awarded noiminal damages and little or no punitive damages.
It seems you are seeking a certainity of SMME value. It is at present impossible to assertain. What I do BELIEVE is that $.30/share today will look crazy little when this is all said and done.
If you were MC?V, what would you do? Settle out of court or wait for a trial by jury? If you decide to settle out of court would you do it soon or later? If you may have offered $400 million earlier, before a trial, and now have lost the trial what would be your next offer? and when?
These questions and the others we have shared is what keeps SMME at $.30/share will little volume. If I were to receive $1000 tommorrow I would but as much of SMME as I could....I don't mind the wait.
Things are better than I expected!!! Without the NONCASH items they showed GREAT growth. It's a keeper.
constallation is not a broker. They sell no stock. They make their money when the companies they promote rise in value. Many companies "Pump" the price of a stock with news of "if and whens". Knowing inside info they will dump their shares when it rises. Constallation does not do that. They turn down companies to promote if they are not satisfied with them. They are unique in their field...others like them may exist but I am not aware of them. In the over two years i have watched and owned SMME at the suggestion of Constallation they have never given me "ify" news. They have been accurate and truthful. The price of SMME is a function of those willing to invest now and wait for whatever outcome comes. Others seem to want to wait until an outcome is announced. This stock is for real. How much they will get is what no one knows and thus is difficult to value into the price of the stock. I BELIEVE it will be MUCH more than $.30/share....
No disagreement with your comments. Locate SMME financial advisors, Constellaton Investors or Advisors. They are not Pump and Dump people. They promote good and viable companies such as SMME and TCLN. I talk with Richard Pizano
Thanks for the reply. Some of the message did not make it. I will go to seeking alpha and try the address of hendrick.
Are you a holder of SMME?
Your thinking is what keeps SMME at $.30/share. HOWEVER, factoring in the decision of the FEDERAL APPEALS COURT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA gives many the notion that SMME will receive a monetary settlement for the infringment on their patent. How much is unknown now. Some seem to think it will be in the hunderds of millions of dollars. Every 110 million dollars they receive will add $1/share to the stock price.
Simple math.
As an investor if a company has cash in the bank equal to $3/share, would you pay at least $3/share for it?
OR if you believed the company is going to receive cash equal to $3/share, would you pay $.30/share for it?
I am........
Hey Dad, didn't know you had a computer...
NOT ALWAYS...
That equation works for a "normal"/common price rise in a stock.
However, Valuation is also a key to the price of a stock. 110 million shares times $.30 equals $33million valuation of SMME.
Add, $550 million to the bank account of SMME from the settlement of a lawsuit and that will add $5/ share to the price of the stock...regardless of the "R" becoming an "E".
Then add future royalties from the use of the "patent 464" and the sale and use of the next generation card and you have a stock that is WAY UNDER PRICED at $.30/share.
Maybe this is new math to you....I will agree that it is not common for many, many stocks.
ranger2118 could not find anything on hendrick at seeking alpha.
Any other posts from him?
Let me also add that penny stocks are suspect and news about them are often seen as "pump and dump" info. Let us remember Sustainable Power corp.
Also, many people cannot but penny stocks. My stockbroker told me he is prohibited from buying penny stocks or suggesting to his clients that they buy them, no matter what the news is about them.
Mostly I see it as a buy for us who know...and it will rise in price the closer we get to the trial date...or rumor of an out of court settlement starts to circulate.
This is a money maker at $.30/share if you buy now and are willing to wait...
Let me make it real simple...without the sarcasm.
The stock sells at $.30/share.
IF they only net $300 million dollars from the infringment on their patent that puts the stock price at approximately $3/ share.
IF they only net $100 million dollars from the infringment on their patent that puts the stock price at approximately $1/ share.
300% profit--900% profit. HUGE PROFIT will accrue to anyone who buys the stock at $.30/share. Does it really matter? The only unknown is how much they will receive...and it will without a doubt be more than the current price of the stock today...
--110 million shares outstanding.
--4 major credit card companies paying infringment compensation to SMME
--in 2009/2010, just after the initial lawsuit was filed, Mastercard set aside $400 million for future lawsuit losses.
--4 times $400 million is $1.6 BILLION
--give half to the lawyers and that leaves about $6-7/ SMME share.
++and then add something for what SMME will receive in FUTURE compensation for the continued use of their patent!!!
I agree. The closer we get to the "final" trial date--or rumors of out of court settlement begin to circulate--the price will begin to reflect the compensation SMME will be awarded.
Been with this one from the beginning. I have only one egg and it's in this basket. I really cannot see how this thing doesn't reach $6-7/share once the companies come to terms on settlement and future compensation. Any other news you have please share. Hope you, too, have eggs in this basket.
What happened to your 1952 Post?
That says it well and completely! BUY-BUY-BUY!!
The short story is that since the issuance of patent "464" ALL 4 major credit card companies have infringed on the Smartmetric patent.
The part of the appeal to the Markman hearing which Smartmetric lost covers only about 5-10% of the transactions since the issuance of the patent.
Therefore, the 90-95% of card transactions which have ALREADY taken place have infringed upon the patent....and the 4 major credit card companies will have to compensate Smartmetric for that infringment... How much is the next step.
Note in Mastercards annual report the year the first lawsuit was filed--2009?--they set aside $400 million for lawsuit loses.
You can do the math...but remember to take out attorney's fees!!:)
Add me to the list of believers!!
That is how I understand the March 5th trial too...
It has been good for 3 quarters....it will continue. I believe the momentum is building for this stock and word is spreading as to its value to other businesses. It is one I will be adding to when/if I get extra money.
Perhaps it is the Markman hearing. What I know, without being too literal with the language, is that Smartmetric was pleased with MOST of the Markman hearing, but not all. So they appealled. The March 5th hearing before a panel of 3 Appeallete justiceses was regarding the part of the Markman hearing Smartmetric was not pleased with.
The tenor of that March 5th meeting, open to the public, from some who were there, believe it was VERY favorable to smartmetric.
The next step, after this ruling comes forth, is for Smartmetric to go to trial on patent infringment OR to reach an out of court settlement with all or some of the credit card companies.
Remember, the Markman hearing did say that many of the cards now in use DID infringe in the patent...just not all. I believe the president of Smartmetric came out with a letter and guessimated that over 50% of the cards in use did qualify as infringing on the patent.
They own the patent for the "pass and go" credit card. They are suing Visa, MC, et al for infringment of the patent. First trial took place months ago and they won most of it. March 5, 2012, was the appeal on the part they did not win.
Those present at the March 5 trial were "happy" with what they saw and heard.
If you are talking about the trial of March 5...
Those who were there for it give Smartmetric a better than 50/50 chance of winning the trial.
The verdic may take 2 days or 2 months to come forward.
If you plan on getting into this stock, now is the time...
read post 6524. Again, John's fraud was his overstatement of the yield of the process, NOT the process itself. It works...
It always belonged to John since he owned "90%" of both companies. He was going to take it to Europe. In fact the last president of SSTP had a deal in Europe but the board (John) turned down the proposal. That is why he resigned as president.
As for SSTP, their sole "asset" and purpose was to promote the Rivera Process in America and USSE (ZEON) was to promote it in the rest of the world.
Actually SSTP gave up a HUGE portion of its stock to acquire the Rivera Process from USSE, now ZEON, to develop and promote said process in the USA.
As for the value of the shell...I think the whole company is worth under $10K. Cheap to get listed.
Wonder how the shares of John, now deceased, and his wife fit into what is going on???
I can think of 2 possibilities:
1) There is something to owning the rights to a biofuel process that works well, can be affordable to make and sell to the public.
2) Buying into an established company--a shell company--to shorten the process of getting your idea into the public domain.
That would have meant a decision in Monday's trial. Did you hear anything?
Appeal trial must be going well!!!
the Yahoo site shows the difference between a trader and an investor. this company, I think, is worthy of an investor. Buy it, hold it, accumulate more. I've been with this company for over 4 years and have trusted its propriatary products. I'm in this for the long haul...I'm a believer.
Just read the latest news release. Seems as though there are still 4 weeks or so to load up on the stock before the BIG trial begins.... Is this what "easy money" is all about???
Been 3 weeks since the trial began. I agree!!
That is a function of supply and demand. But as long as the company continues to grow as it has over the last 3 quarters this one will go up in price. Demand will increase along with continued good news... Keep the faith!!