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Doma - Nothing at all wrong with becomming the biggest online trusted-computing utility company in the world.
As is often said in business, 'You can call me whatever you want, as long as you pay me well'.
T123
cpa - you should know better than to make that statement about things being bad if they don't release forecasts. You more than anyone should be able to play the conservative CFO role. If you were Wave's CFO, you would be in no rush to guess either. IT's easier to report on firm commitments, then speculation.
Steven himself told you that numbers wouldn't even come to him from the likes of Intel and others until the end of this quarter, and to that end, he wouldn't be in a position to give any guidance until at least Q1. So if he told us the truth last time, why is it bad when it happens like he said it would?
Just because you may believe that he should be giving guidance doesn't mean that it should be so. As usual, many are setting themselves up for disappointment again, followed by Snackman, Weby and others having to come in and dry all of your tears, and remind you all that this was expected.
Well - consider yourselves reminded.
T123
I think you're buying too early.
For many of you who like to take Steven at his word, I believe that you're buying a bit too early IMO. Of course, while there's no real bad or good time, and Wave is at an affordable price anywhere in this range, there's still some likely downside from here. Steven told us at the SHM that numbers would likely not be counted or forthcoming in time for this CC.
Therefore, I believe that your hopeful expectations are possibly jumping ahead of realistic expectations. In reality, you may be able to get this stock at somewhere around $2 when all is said and done. But hey, why risk it - right?
I'm gonna wait this time until after the call. If I'm wrong, I got a lotta shares already. If I'm right, I'll have even more. You'd think I should have learned something over the past few years.
T123
RSA is beginning to sound like Wave (or vice' versa) more and more IMO. If you go here:
http://www.rsasecurity.com/solutions/idmgt/index.html
and then follow the path for RSA Keon Key Recovery, it really sounds to me like there's not only a Hardware Secuity Module involved, but also someone manning the helm on the server-side too.
T123
That's a First ...
You know how you can personalize your Yahoo page to show the latest business news, sports news and so forth, including Semiconductor News?
Well Wave's Finread announcement just cam up on my board under both Wave, and under Semiconductor News. I wonder who decided that this news was semiconductor related news?
T123
Wildman262 - Thanks for re-posting this. It reminded me that there's nothing to worry about.
Thanks
T123
SPIN this device could be something similar to that old parallel adapter that the old case technology companies used to allow an old dumb-terminal to be considered CASE enabled. The problem with this device was that you had to carry it everywhere you went, and it could be reverse engineered. It also was not programmable. That means that Mr.Softee must believe that all attestation applications will/must be Windows based, or comply to Windows application standards.
Wow - I don't know what Steven knows, but if I was Steven, I sure better know exeactly where I stand, and act accordingly. There's a lot here at face value that smacks of a potential end-run around a lot of companies, including Wave.
Ramsey2 - I was beginning to wonder if anyone even read this.
Perhaps this perspective, or balancing commentary is too much for an already skewed and heavily leveraged community of loyal followers to consider. While it may be thought-provoking as bigtim suggests, it is also the 'what could go wrong' flip-side of our investment that would be too painful to face after all of these years.
To a great extent, I very much understand why the board possibly read it, and then simply decided not to comment.
This is not the time to run scared and let these kinds of fears creep into this board. It is not the purpose of this board to be a bunch of 'Chicken Littles' suggesting all of the time that the sky is falling, running to Steven for assurances.
Now is the time to trust that Steven and the Wave management already knows this, and is working to ensure this doesn't happen. Now is the time to trust that everything is happening according to a plan that Steven is comfortable with, and that is why his confidence level is so high. Now is the most important time to have patience (next 2 quarters) to see what transpires, and then react. There's no reason to react to the potential negative or the potential positive right now.
Reading it, and weighing it out in one's own mind is good enough. No reaction is necessary right now.
T123
shrinkydink - I don't believe it references the Embassy 'chip'.
Rather, it mentions the Embassy Suite of services I believe. Am I missing seeing the word chip somewhere?
T123
Larry - My wife doesn't nag. This is my second marriage, and I made sure that I interviewed her before I brought her on-board.
T123
2bStealthy - Although I have no hard evidence (or soft) to support my beliefs, I believe that Microsoft's .Net server solution has been a disaster (to-date) in the enterprise market, when measured against their expectations.
Microsoft leveraged the Windows Operating systems to capture the lions share of the Browser market, essentially knocking out the competition, and ensuring their stronghold on the consumer.
To me, the .Net server appears to be an obvious candidate for Microsoft to use with similar tactics for Attestation, Key-Management, etc. by leveraging the Longhorne release of Windows 2005. If their Windows software contains certain embedded rule-based permissions, utility-like services, and other checks-and-balances that require attestation to occur prior to full execution, why wouldn't it stand to reason that a .Net Attestation Server, key-distributor, and key-manager would provide Microsoft the same stronghold on the industry that it currently enjoys with its Windows OS?
I absolutely recognize that in the wake of recent government findings and rulings, that Microsoft would be foolish to attempt to pull this antitrust crap off again right in front of everyone, but let's look at some of the facts.
1) The Republicans came to Microsoft's rescue the minute they took office, and what was supposed to be a monumental punishment (split the company) simply went away. That doesn't happen without significant power. So support is there with enough money is the message there.
2) Microsoft doesn't care what everyone else thinks. Their tactics in the past has been to pre-emptively release hype as if it is theirs, and supposedly, use other people's IP (Intertrust example) as their own while the long law suits drag out, and by the time a ruling actually comes down, they've already captured the market they wanted to anyway.
3) The .Net solution is not winning in the marketplace. And, short of calling it a failure (which will never happen) Microsoft has to find a way to give it life.
4) Microsoft always hedges its bets, for reasons of leverage, and to give the perception that formidable competition exists. This Rainbow/Safenet scenario could be this in a nut shell. Not as good a solution (obviously), but with Microsoft's marketing and advertising engine, they could make it appear (through smoke and mirrors) that this is another alternative if the players they neeed to fall in line don't cooperate. FUD at its very best.
5) Microsoft is not interested in just retaining a market they already own. They're likely looking to own the web-services market, the distributed network market, and who knows, maybe even the secure storage market. I wouldn't put it past them.
Doesn't it suck that Microsoft has done so many questionable things in the past decade that I would even think this deviously?
The question then becomes, Will the other players in the industry let them get away with it?
Well, Intel and NSM will because they sell the motherboards and the chips for all of these platforms. IBM won't, which is why they have ATMEL and LINUX working constantly to incorporate the rest of their already robust software stack into an integrated trusted computing solution. HP won't allow it, because they need to catch up to, and then beat IBM at its own game, so to some extent TCG will definitely remain alive and well.
Anyway, to make a long post shorter, there's still a lot of suspicion in my mind. I can't yet tell where all of the lines in the sand have been drawn, whether Wave will remain ubiquitously and objectively supportive to all, or whether they too will need to pick sides somewhere down the road. For them to remain the latter, they'd either have to own attestation as an independent defender of open systems, or completely give it away (yet support it with services) to those that may be too proud to let them own it.
Well - I feel better that I got it out, at least.
Who knows what will really happen
Larry - I don't like my relatives well enough to do that.
Ramsey2 - Weby and I could tell you stories about how many people we've each convinced to put their money into this investment.
Let's see - some were at $8, some at $12, some at $18, some at $40 (luckily for me only one of these).
Funny thing is, all of these people (even the $40 investor) made money on Wave (on paper) back in late 1999, and early 2000. What wasn't funny was that I was not wise enough (then)to see the obvious staring me in the face, and get us all out when we were all pretty well off.
To that end, I can never look unkindly on those who choose not to invest based on anything I might say, or do.
- Yet
T123
Barge - RE: Compelling Evidence
I'm very, very comfortable with your words. Let's use yours instead.
Compelling Evidence ---- Much better!
regards,
Tampa123
Barge - I love your passion. You wirte:
"For example, to reduce WAVE to a Software Utility Company renders WAVE vulnerable to every software company in the computing universe".
Exactly correct! And what they are today (what they are currently selling) versus what they will become, or could offer are miles apart. If I didn't believe as you do, that Wave is so much more than what the public sees, then I wouldn't be in this investment.
But, as far as the public is concerned (today), Wave is only a software utility company, which is a significant departure than what the Embassy chipset harware/software solution they have professed to be for the past several years.
Simply put, what they are now in the market versus what they will become over time in the market are two different things. The only difference between our perceptions of what Wave is, is that you refuse to recognize what they are today, and want only to speak of Wave at some point in the future, and I'm okay talking about Wave in both the present and future.
They are what they are, and they will become what they will become. However, my investment only reflects what they are right now.
I can't wait until our investments reflect what we both believe Wave can become. It's not a difference of opinion, it's fact versus forward-looking.
T123
CPA - You're just as sarcastic as I am at times, and you're right to a great extent, that this PR probably won't help much. But, maybe in some circles it does help. If Wave has been driving home the message to prospects that their products support these specifications regardless of the platform they're running on, then a PR within hours of the spec release would only serve to drive home their confident claim even further.
It sort of makes them the only likely choice if they're always in support of the specs, they support it across every platform, and they're always the first to say so ahead of anyone else, then I do believe that it sends a good message to potential users under these circumstances. Are these potential users as educated on this as we are to recognize the significance of this PR? That's the $1M question.
My guess is that IBM, Infineon, Intel and others would still want to see a PR like this come out of Wave, if only to boost their confidence in Wave's ability to adequately support their needs in a qualitative way.
At this point, I like seeing any news come out of Wave, and hope that the frequency of PRs picks up a bit.
T123
Lucky - It's funny that we're the only secret in town isn't it?
T123
Lots of speculation on this board lately.
T
How does whom become a major shareholder in Xpress Korea?
This is all speculation of course, but:
A NEWCO or JV can easily be set up where Infrabasic puts up all of the working capital, marketing, campaign management, delivery etc. and Wave simply provides an exclusive license agreement to the venture. Infrabasic become a major shareholder in the venture, and Wave could get paid on revenues received, and could also (perhaps) receive shares in a company that today, is worth basically nothing.
Although in the end, Wave does get paid in this scenario in more than one way (license and shares), which I suppose supports your beliefs (hence the question), but anytime shares are worth nothing at the beginning of the venture, I don't consider that getting paid.
Again - pure speculation for how the deal could be structured without money changing hands. The exclusivity stays in effect as long as the hurdles are met, while the shares (possible shares) stay in Wave's posession forever. Of course, if shares are part of the deal, we should see that disclosed in Wave's financial statements.
T123
Doma - Probably not have to pay, but I would be very surprised if they were given an exclusive without minimum sales hurdles and revenue timelines attached.
T123
awk - Nice job too.
Bravo! Thanks Weby and Snackman for getting me off the Bud Light hot seat. I like your anchor post, and the person who wrote it isn't too bad either.
Tampa123
Happy Halloween everyone.
T123
Bye Barge - Write something.
Barge - I explain it the same way I explain this 1998 press release below. Where's this in production today? Until it's here, it's not here. But you can write whatever you want.
March 17 - Wave Systems Corp. Will Demo Its WaveMeter Technology At Seybold New York '98 more
Media Alert
Wave Systems Corp. will demonstrate its
WaveMeter® technology
at
Seybold Seminars New York/Publishing '98 Expo
Jacob K. Javits Convention Center
651 West 39th Street at 11th Avenue
IBM Booth #753
Tuesday, March 17th...10:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.
Wednesday, March 18th...10:00 a.m. - 6:00 p.m.
Thursday, March 19th...10:00 a.m. - 4:00 p.m.
Wave representatives will be on hand at IBM's booth to demonstrate Wave's unique turnkey solution for electronic content distribution and transaction processing that can turn PCs into digital cash registers for secure renting or purchasing of software. The system combines triple DES encryption to secure content being sold with a local WaveMeter chip that accomplishes content decryption and metering, and records user credit and transaction data.
Members of the media and investment community are encouraged to visit IBM's booth for a demonstration of the WaveMeter. For registration and other information, visit Seybold Seminars' web site at
http://www.seyboldseminars.com
or visit Wave's home page at
http://www.wave.com
OnlineCounselor - You're spamming our board ~ pure and simple. I have a registration site name too. Why not send them to watch this using my site name? I'm glad this is your last post on the subject.
Barge - Thank you for your comments. A part of me expected them to come. Don't ask me why. Anyway, I don't know how to say this in a way that you'll be okay with, but let me try once, at least.
Interoperability has been your mantra for quite some time now. However, we are a far cry from interoperability yet, just like we were about a year ago when I told you that web-services was still a ways off from being realized.
In order to have interoperability (by definition) you have to have at least two (count em) trusted devices or platforms that can interoperate with each other in the manner you're attempting to lay out. Today, there are no TANs interoperating with TPMs in production. The closest thing that you have to interoperability in production today is a CRM package, middleware, and websphere all working together with a data warehouse and some first generation business rules.
In other words, your interoperative world doesn't exist yet to support they type of Web-Services interoperability that you look forward to. That doesn't make you wrong, because this will most likely come to pass. And, I even agree that what is going on via the TCG, NGSCB, UDDI, SOAP and so on is all ground work being laid. The problem that I have with what you preach is, that even though interoperability will likely occur, you cannot tell me with any certainty (yet) what piece of that pie will be owned by whom.
Three years ago, you and I would have sworn that the Embassy Chip had to be used to even get as far as we have. We don't know who's chips are going to be used in the end (could be Waves). We don't know who's going to deliver (distribute) and lay ownership claim to the TANs yet (could be Wave). We don't know who's Secure OS we will be using 3-years from now (could be Wave's), but a good guess would be Microsoft's IMO. Wave doesn't have the resources to write an OS. Applets yes, but not the underlying Operating System.
So, my point is, that while I've always said that your dream will probably come true, it probably (in the end) won't look like the way you dream it. So why lay all of this at Wave's doorstep now? We are only a security utility solution today. Whay isn't that good enough for now?
Lastly, don't give me that people will be all over you if you write something bunk. I wrote something and no one is all over me. They should be all over you if you don't write something. You can't be just a pitcher. You gotta catch some too!
If you want interoperability in there, then I say you write it yourself. I don't feel that I will have to for another 14-18 months yet.
T123
To all - I can't reply to private email, but I can, and do read it. So, if you want a response, you'll have to include your email-id (at least once) so that I can write you back.
Tampa123
awk - you write
NGSCB/LaGrande has essentially nothing to do with attestation other than that it accessesses the TPM for continuous local platform verification.
I'm not sure what you mean by this statement, so what I'm about to write may be way off base ????
I still think that the attestation server will have work to do for LaGrande regardless. It will need to link to a database repository of user profiles, business rules, workflow managers and middleware, and will also likely sit in waiting for LaGrande to auto-trigger the use of these rules and workflow managers for downstream processing (If, then, else) as a result of attestation (on/off, run-reject), in addition to trust-key TPM conversation.
You can't just simply assume that business will maintain a seperate Data Warehouse and server routing scheme for these users, dependent on whether attestation is turned on, or off. It won't even know until it receives the transaction request packet.
It's my opinion that this server will become the central transaction gateway server, in addition to being the attestation server. If it all works out this way, Microsoft will likely need to integrate all use cases (rules, middleware) and workflow manager scenarios into LaGrande. This means that the whole software stack is available to the user via LaGrande, with the Attestation/Trust Key combination working as the gatekeeper and key-master to specific LaGrande services (web-services) and workflows.
Attestation might initially start out as, 'Is this user someone who has paid their bill this month', but you can bet that it will quickly become (in LaGrande) ~ and if it is turned on and he spends over $150/month follow this workflow which may even send this user back an applet with a new free trial offering, and if he doesn't or if Attestation is not turned on, follow a different workflow.
Next generation CRM will be driven off of this Attestation Server IMO.
RE: SSP - Didn't we hear from Steven that annual budgets for the government were to be approved in the October/November timeframes, and that a lot of Wave's offerings were included in these pending budgets? Why isn't it simply logical to also assume that since SSP has the only all U.S. secure Smart Card solution, that they too would capture some significant portion of the government's security budget?
I mean geez - look at the potential for Driver's Licenses, Passports, ID-Cards of all security levels, Sporting Event Passes, Airline Travel, Voter Cards, etc. If I was looking at this, I'd think that the government is where secrets can't be kept, and that's why you're seeing some of SSP's (expected to be approved) contract work seeping out into the market.
Just a thought.
Ramsey2 - I'm all for anyone writing whatever they wish. However, if it is not accurate, or can't be proven then I am not comfortable having my name associated with it. Others who will be buying into Wave and finding our board will read this. And, while I agree with Barge to the extent that we should attempt to describe all things that are possible for Wave to become, I would then recommend that we clearly separate fact from forward-looking disclaimer-like statements.
As for Wave's Mission - I don't think we should play around there at all. I'm sure Wave has a Mission Statement, and we should definitely use theirs (for the sake of accuracy). The last thing I want us to do is put ourselves in a position where we're trying to describe what Wave will ultimately become, or strive to become for Wave, and write it as though it's fact, or a foregone conclusion. To me -- That's hyping!
Lastly, I applaud Barge for stirring the pot here on this one. He's right! This should be discussed. This should be looked at with a critical eye (productively and encouragingly of course). However, I don't agree that it should be argued. Not that he (Barge) suggested that, but debates sometimes lead to the squeeky-wheel scenario. I have no intentions of getting into any long drawn-out debate over this.
You've already heard (and seen) my opinion. Now, I'd like to challenge Barge the way he's challenged all of you. Barge ~ don't waste our time with analyzing what everyone else writes or says. I think you should publish your thoughts by writing the opening for this board the way you'd like to see it written --- FIRST. It'll be easier on all of us if we get you satisfied first, because you do tend to need a little oil on your wheels at times, and I don't feel like not posting for a week until you run out of energy.
T123
barge - I wrote what Wave is right now IMO, not what you or anyone else could speculate what they will become someday. It's as simple as that. It should be updated as Wave grows. That way, we can all look back on the progression by the history of this living description. What else are they now, today, that I missed. Not what they could become, or will become.
If you would like to write something, I'm all for it. I was just trying to help, and be accurate at the same time. And waht's this 'Take Me on' stuff? No one needs to take me on. I own nothing except my own opinion.
Tampa123
Michael ANd THE Kids - Then put your kids on this obviously. Obviously, your the idiot in the family. Why speak to you.
T123
orda - I did my part. I got the ball rolling. I'd like to see others on this board add or change things first. Regardless, I'm not that concerned over whether Wave blesses it, because they probably can't/won't anyway. It only needs to say whatever we're comfortable believing Wave is, and does.
Because, none of us surely knows the full extent of what they are, or might become anyway.
Regards,
T123
Snackman
I made a couple of minor corrections to this myself since yesterday. Please replace my original version with this unless others have already added, changed or deleted.
T123
Wave Systems, Corporation (Wave) is delivering patented technologies to the client-server user community that offers improved security from the center to the edges of the user’s network. Being one of the pioneers in the development of hardware-based security solutions, Wave has evolved from its early beginnings as a security and metering silicon chipset developer to become the leading provider of seamless, trusted-computing utilities.
These utilities enable a variety of secure client-side transactional features and functionalities, while also working to ensure the integrity, privacy, transitioning, and/or recovery of the user’s trust-keys, encrypted material, documents and digital signatures. These user secrets will be hidden from unwanted attack via a TPM (Trusted Platform Module), a separate storage area set aside inside in the client CPU, used to hide these secrets.
Over time, these, and other trust utilities and services, are expected to be upgraded and maintained via a TAN (Trust Assurance Network), a secure attestation server and key-manager designed to ensure that the user attempting to conduct a specific transaction is a trusted computer, having the appropriate keys and profile needed to complete the secure transaction.
The Embassy (EMBedded Application Security SYstem) Trust Suite of utilities and services is currently available through the Wave website (www.wave.com), and is also currently being offered as a bundled solution via the Intel D865GRM motherboard solution, and via National Semi Conductor ‘s (NSM) Safekeeper 21100. Wave is also a member of the Trusted Computing Group (TCG) formed by AMD, Compaq, HP, IBM, Intel and Microsoft: http://www.trustedcomputinggroup.org/home
cpa - Sarbanes-Oxley isn't just an audit about numbers either, but it's currently in progress. One is process, the other is process combined with IT-infrastructure topologies, and access priveledges.
What's so difficult?
Great! and it doesn't even use the person's sign-up URL, so that person doesn't get credit for any of their friends that actually sign up. Hmmmmmmm.
It deserves a cautious eye at least Packstater - I agree with you there. Money isn't everything all of the time. Ethics are important
OT - Peter Sprague's email is psprague@wavesys.com ? Yes? or No?