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Letgo... and Joesphs
I read the boards mostly now. Don't post very often.. Yahoo is now a disaster.
But back in 08 and 09 I was alive on the yahoo boards. I posted about the ridiculous over reserved loan loss provisions long before many knew what i was writing about. Many other things caused me so many problems with it. But understood that fandf were the vehicle the middle class used for generations to buy a home and how banks simply didn't / weren't interested in holding 30 year fixed rate paper.
I've got some shares at 25c some at 28c. But not near what I could have, should have; there were so many like carney and timross at wsj that beat on these constanty and told me i was wrong.
And, yes, had i stopped and investigated more, i would have at the time largely been in the preferreds but i am not. Clear thought of age and wisdom today back then would have had me there. Instead, i've got commons' enough to change my life's fortunes if we get to fair value, but not enough to have $10M+ like i should have had. At the same time in 08 and 09; had i been wrong; it would have been just a tax write off and i'd be no worse off 8 years later.
woulda coulda. but, still chasing fair value.
this conservatorship must end. We've paid enough to have repaid the loan. They must reset the rate at TARP rates; and adjust for the cookie jar accounting tricks; to come up with an adjusted interest payments. Then refund the extra $$ taken and void the warrants.
Doing this would put Fannie at 40-50B+ to the positive and Freddie up 30-40B+.
I'd pass on damages if this occurred.
Thanks all for remembering our yahoo days.
Until we get some substantative progress or news we won't move much higher in the near term.
It will happen.
Just not all at once and without more better progress.
Considering where we've been $4 to $5 could be max range. (until Positive news on Perry or Trump or some other progress) I write this because at $4-$5 its $40-$50,000 to trade 10,000 shares and most that's a big block. Its easy to trade 20-25,000 shares when the price is a $1.50 just starts getting to real money if you move 100,000 shares and it be on otc. Cause institutions don't often trade on otc as they are bound to nasdaq or nyse.
If we move to the $5's again I may sell a couple shares to buy them back later. I've not done much trading for honest fear of being out of the stock at the wrong time. Biggest problem is not trusting my convictions back in 2009! Dang it!
GLTA!
As things progress... a solid $4 begets a solid $5.
Things will get interesting..
I hope; there are some smart people that hold the line on government corruption.
I am a taxpayer; i've gotten nothing out of fannie and freddie.
Its the Government that has been taking the money not taxpayers.
No more Government Gains at Taxpayer Expense.
This is not a fight of Taxpayer -v private citizens - because private citizens ARE the taxpayer(s)!
Its Government Goons -v Taxpayer/investor
the dishonorable Lew is a tool. What a crass smug person. He is also one that should be removed because he parrots a line that he has been instructed to hold that holds no water.
Grrrr!!!! very frustrating seeing those type people having a microphone but being gutless.
Can't "restructure" the capital without a bankruptcy filing. Which would be devastating for the capital markets.
Why would you do that to a company that has adequate capital if the thieves were forced to return their take?
Stupid idea.
This is a government created fiasco.
It needs to be fixed.
Just about right.
1.16 B shares at about $4.20 = $5.xB
Yahoo has it screwed up because they WRONGLY include the illegal warrants.
Jeddiemack
Chess,
The WSJ is running with the current WH and just another "hit" piece.
More BS.
In order to recap these companies; the warrants are dead.
Jeddiemack
The government is hiding something.
What is it?
Why else, do they redact FOIA type information?
If it were me, I'd start deposing the Jr. Level people. Trust me, an 80K a year person with no life time cushy job and government protection wants to do time for their boss. They won't lie and the honest truth will be startling. It will be like asking a child. The truth will come gushing out. Trust me, they want to tell the truth and they want to be heard.
Notice these people up and watch the motions filed to prevent it.
It really will be telling.
Glenn,
I believe more connecting the dots in a logical fashion will begin to create "noise" in the system.
At some point, the underlings will no longer want to support those going to jail. If you want answers ask the boss if you want the truth, ask the secretary.
In my line of work, you always interview the cfo, but, to me i really want to talk to the controller or the accounting manager. I want their opinions, because its often vastly different than the tune at the top.
These type of illustrative pieces make it hard to hide.
Peace.
Sure would be nice.
$234 per would close to fair value and
would be a directional change in this household.
Excellent.
Appreciate you sharing.
I figure its a mistake or he took the site down to revamp it.
But the message and free flow of information is too valuable to everyone to lock it under log in access.
No worries.
Why is this Repub v Demon?
Isn't it supposed to be right -v wrong?
And the evils and excesses of a greedy government wronging americans by taking what was not theirs in an overt attack on civil society?
Me too.
Have a few shares at 25 pennies from 2008.
He's a tool in a cheap suit.
Reminds everyone of the importance of life. Prayers for you Bruce on a speedy recovery.
Would sound like corker is arguing for the sustainability of fannie and freddie.
2015 could be a magical year. A real turning point.
LOL..
So now he won't act without congress... but he was so eager to "act" on his own in violation of constitutional powers on those occupying the US illegally.
is this laughable or just sad?
Hera clearly states as opined by the Judge that FHFA as Conservator is not subject to review or any Federal Agency. Thus, how can FHFA be beholding to Treasury - an Agency of the US.
Would seem the two provisions are in conflict.
Perhaps FHFA is beholding afterall which would nullify the other provision.
I just want fannie and freddie released as promised.
The warrants - do not recapitalize the gse's the go for free to the government.
So follow this.
1.1B shares value per share = $200
5.5B shares post value per share = $40
At 1.1B shares to raise 40Billion you need to offer 200M Shares
At 5.5B shares to raise 40Billion you have to offer 1B shares.
So you go from 1.3B shares to near 7B shares outstanding.
The easier way to raise capital would be for the government to give back the excess money stolen. Around $30Billion for Fannie presently, and then for it to keep a level of retained earnings for the next 3-5 years.
In 3-5 years it could have retained earnings of 100B
Which is more than 5x the amount it ever needed during the last down cycle (net of cookie jar accounting tricks by the government)
Raising capital for Fannie and Freddie is really easy if the government will get out of the way.
David seems like a good guy. I think he was just repeating what others have said before him with out really thinking.
I would hope he agrees the warrants should be shredded. It would be insulting to and vial to use them - hopefully the court will step in and stop it- if not; I could foresee another lawsuit over them.
The warrants are still problematic.
The government should not be allowed access to them.
The government should pay back to the GSE's the value they stole above what was provided to them (net) of cookie jar accounting tricks at a reasonable rate of return.
The government should not be profiteers and be greedy as they already stand to recover billions in tax receipts from investors and the investors use of harvesting the value of their investment.
One more thing...
The "bail outs to Aig and GM (which was a bankruptcy where the gov't screwed the bond holders) and really all the other "bail outs (tarp, etc); were *** VOLUNTARY ***.
All those others were actually negotiated "deals". The invasion of fannie and freddie by the aggressors (occupiers) were "put" upon them under duress; the terms of which were not negotiated - it was an UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER.
This is going to play very poorly in court.
The warrants, terms, and actions put upon them will be revisited.
$0
They can't own the common shares and thus can't exercise them.
Also, only Treasury can exercise them; So the can't sell the warrants and third parties exercise them.
Thus.
$0.
One thing that lamberth ignores is that you are either "appointed" a conservator or a receivor. You are not appointed both and you can't just "morph" from one set of duties to the other. You have to be "appointed" and the set of duties are mutually exclusive.
In the section that it suggest not subject to review by other federal agency, be mindful that is really silly, because that would mean the fhfa, acting as conservator would be acting without regard to the rules or regs of, for example, the irs, the fdic, FDA, CDC, FBI, Secret Service, treasury etc, etc., That would be highly improbable...
So, for example as conservator this suggests it could print its own money, impose its own taxes, and all kinds of other things, what fun. But, illogical.
In your writing you cite "will"... that's non optional writing.
as opposed to "may".
Will means it has to.
If its therefore deemed "solvent" the judge failed in ordering a release.
So is the judge picking and choosing what section of the "so called" law he abides by?
Here's to hoping you are at least 1/2 right!
Fannie only has 1.1 Billion shares outstanding.
So your conservative math is only about 65% of Fair Value.
Read the language again.
She said... that under conservatorship it could do what ever it wanted without regard to anybody else. And that included giving away 100% of the equity of the company. Meaning if they were to "sell or give away assets" with or without paying down liabilities that they could. As there is no judicial or other review.
Meaning in essence conservatorship is equal to receivership.
Further, and this is of real crazy interest. Don't you know that the FHFA could infact sell your shares at no cost to whomever it wants; because - they have all your rights as shareholders. All your rights including rights of ownership.
Now how does that make you feel.
The judge just ruled that r'ship and c'ship are the same.
That is problematic and subject to reversal.
Can't rebuild capital if its all swiped...
You are correct.
But this was not a case challenging the constitutionality of the hera law.
I'd like to see one though.
And the judge wrote this in the drivel.
I'd also say that its highly doubtful when written that congress contemplated that conservatorship and receivership = the same thing. Because of the plain language of the law, the differences were established and thus, if they were to be the same and seen as the same and operate as the same then there would have not been both; as having both mean the difference between both were worth the ink and time to write both.
Therefore, the fhfa and the judge using both interchanabley is obviously against what was written and intended to be written.
Under lambreath's opinion, conservatorship = recerivership and thus, one is the other or both.
Which is actually not the case.
Thus if you give away all of the net worth of an entity it is a liquidation of equity and value. And simply this forces the entity to be undercapitalized which is often a big problem from other courts perspectives.
I would think that any 3rd year accounting student would know this difference that if Assets = Liabilites then equity equals ZERO. And that is effectively a liquidation; even if the enitity has 5 Trillion of assets and 5 Trillion of debts.
This judge really is bad.
This is a silly argument.
Then why do you have companies that get sued by shareholders for losing value or misleading when.
"its always the nature of stock, that you could lose all your investment" as in stock is not a guarantee of profits or loses. And the fact that you lost money if for no other reason of theft, is in itself a probability that you could have always lost and therefore, reason that you could lose it.
So, apply this to a murder case.... Well, jury, there was always the possibility that the criminal could murder the victim, and the victim, had to have reasonable expectation that as a person, death would come, and likely will have come, and therefore, just because the murderer committed it, well, that is what could have occurred and since it did, well. it did.
This is to me a silly argument.
My sense is its all about the November elections and the feeling that the Senate will be won by the republicans.
Word I am hearing is the swing is 6 to 8 seats.
Won't really change the plot for fannie and freddie as there is not solution other than the GSE's in long term housing and mortgage finance.
But, will make "deal" cutting harder by the obama peeps.
Look for nothing to come out of congress over the next two years.
The courts will make this a mess.
Look for some rescission and Fannie and Freddie to eventually be set free - with some major new oversight - but ostensibly undiluted. Its only going to take 3-4 years.
Imagine headlines that read...
Treasury releases Fannie and Freddie; Cancels Warrants; Considers Preferred Stock Repurchased to Reimburse $80 Billion of Excess Proceeds
and
Government to allow GSE's to rebuild capital under watchful eye and Promote Fair Lending Standards
Coming to a News Paper near you... and soon.
I hope.
Rocking with the Faith.
Now...
That is some Change I could actually believe in...
So
Hope so.