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We've gone through the Wamu case from A to Z. We've learned too much and earned too little on the Wamu. I have 5 different categories of wamuq, and believe you have the same.
Go with our believes, and ............GLTus.
FYI, There is a post on Wamuq board #364099 by "Realtime64" regarding a letter from a former Treasurer of Dime Corp. You may be interested.
Thanks for your confirmation.
Big Thanks
According to Toogoodfella's OLD allowed claims are $284.86. Where are those difference between your numbers (i.e. $227B) and his numbers? Have they been expunged? TIA.
That's my exact confusion coming from. That's also the reason that I think A<L. Maybe I am wrong.
Thanks for your DD.
Is it true now that the POSSIBLY total claims (i.e. allowed + disputed) equal to $412.06B(i.e. 284.86B + 127.2B)?
TIA
Let shareholders have more time to opt in for release.
Me too. I spoke to the supervisor the day before yesterday. ML now manually control the accounts. For examples, if you sell the shares due to unable to lock it, ML would call you personally and ask you to recoup it.
Sounds very funny, but I wrote down every conversations with the supervisor in case of deficiency from ML later.
For the curiosity, is your bank Merrill Lynch? I'm /ML and have the same problems.
Cotton and I have different views. Cotton figures out every docket, but I only go by DS. Different way does not hurt each other. You're responsible for your own investment. eom
I'm sorry too. Partially is from me. I was too concentrate on wahuq, and missed overall F&R.
Don't talk your dream. It seems that you're true MM. Make your dirty money by lying the truth. You even don't have balance yet. Where did you read it? Hm...............
Please read it. I did NOT say she will reverse 'FAIR AND REASONABLE". I am saying she may reverse FJR. EOM
Because I believe A<L after 3 years. Please prove to me that's wrong. Otherwise, just shoot up.
I personally agreed with you. Basically, I think that is her technique since beginning. She wanted to reach a compromise, and everyone gets something. However, SNHs refused it through their sophistical arrangement w/JPIC, such as gifted WMI's assets to JPIC. What could she do? If she denied GSA, then JPIC would be in trouble. So, LIBR could only do the following.
First, she has already reached an agreement with Rosen NOT touch JPIC.
Second, she has to peace down angry shareholders. Therefore, she picked up HFs and forced them back to the bargaining table. Think about. There were so many important issues, and why she only listened to Mr. Thoma's suspicion.
Third, once HFs were willing to talk, then she never ruled HFs criminal, just said "colorable".
Forth, once 4 HFs agreed to give chicken bones to equities, she accomplished it. Most important is that like you said, she saved her reputation. But you and I knew she did not save it.
There is NO need to punish HFs anymore. Also, there is NO way to punish them anyway. HFs' will recoup interest from wahuq anyway. In this case, let go back to the contractual rate rather than FJR.
IMHO
D..., Sorry I don't have private message.
I just followed Monica's thought -- JMW may reverse her FJR ruling. If so, wahuq will be compensated as original setup = $34+
But, the chance is less than 5%.
fortunately I'm not the leader. I just have my own investing theory. GLTY
ONE share means that debtors don't know the way of distribution. Therefore, debtors lump sum everything together and await the 3 year period is over. After 3 years, then debtors will calculate the A vs L. If A>L, everyone gets something. If not, APR applies.
Most likely A<L, so seniors will take it over. It's so simple just like that. ONE share means everyone included TEMPORARILY but NOT NECESSAIRY you will have it.
It's my bad. Should be $426M+.
It's related to class action and it's been approved by the court.
If my memory serves right, common is getting $90M and debts/preferreds getting $426B+ as long as your acquired those securities on or before Sept. 15 2008.
If you had Wahuq, then you hit a home run.
You're right about that 30-35% of tax deduction. However, you would like to have a bargain at additional 70% discounts.
Overall the key is A vs L. Like Marayatano said two years ago, treating CTs as playing lottery. Linda was wondering that seniors' attitude of keeping/dropping NOLs. All those factors are unknown.
To the best of us, hoping seniors keep NOLs, and give us 5% of Lamco.
I were her at a beautiful castle in Swiss with 10 servants.
She might reverse FJR ruling. Others just forget because some goodies are in her pockets already.
Theoretically, you're right. Practically, there are a lot of problems.
Basically, NOLs are generally worth 10% of the face value.
NOLs have a lot of restrictions depended upon your usage.
For examples, Wamu could have NOLs in either 6B or 23B. I think WMI2 takes/uses 6B because it has much less restriction in terms of A&M.
Let's assume that all 50B NOLs are the kind of less restrictions. It will be worth about 5B market value. But I sincerely believe that L is 5B more than A 3 year later. Therefore, seniors will give CTs chicken bones to continuing sucking blood from those 5B. Or, through the distribution of stocks, senior holds 95% and CTs/sub are 5%. Preferreds and commons are gond with nothing.
That was the same strategies 4 HFs in Wamu planning to do it initially.
That's the reason Lamco only has ONE share. Think about Wamu, common/preferreds/CTs know each others distribution because A>L.
Creditors wants to get paid in full. The difficulties are those assets which are il-liquidating. Creditors give liquidating trust a 3 year period to do it, either increase assets or do whatever Toogoodfella said before.
When 3 year period is over, creditors will re-assess whatever the A vs L. As we are aware, real estate is very difficult to be liquidated. Also, Lamco does not have enough real estate to cover the difference. It won't be appreciated too much for only 3 years. Therefore, creditors will ask Lamco's ownership if A<L.
Always go with debtors' numbers. A lots of claims which were expunged are either duplicated or have never been recognized by debtors. Think about the original claim was $1+ trillion, then reduced to $600B+, then.......
I do NOT trust debtors but I will use their numbers for my investment. In wamu, we are always defending debtors/HFs' wrongdoing, or believe there is a hiding list of assets. Assuming they do, but there is no way we could prove it.
As long as we'll be part of the Lamco, disregard a little a big piece, it's worth at the current price. Anything beyond it (>$0.05/share), I would not touch it. Also, we could avoid any scandal.
Preferrds and common stocks are the ones you don't want to touch it at all. They are hopeless.
That's the reason that I'm holding CTs because of NOLs. Seniors will give us chicken bones to keep us.
After 3 years, like whatever you said, there is NO way of liquidating Lamco. So, Seniors are taking over.
IMHO, The assets are around $250B, and allowed claims are around $310B.
Agreed that's our goal. Unfortunately, we'll most likely miss it. The assets are far less than allowed claims. After 3 years, I'm afraid creditors will take over the Lamco. Hoping little things left for CTs because of NOLs. Wamu could be a good mirror for us.
Mara and toogoodfella (post# 7382) are absolutely right. Even we don't know the details, but there are only either of these two way -- APR paid in full or substantive consolidation. Judge Peck does not like substantive consolidation. Plus the difference is too huge to settle down.
Think about this way. If CTs are so good and why is worth sometimes less than $0.03/share. We have been here since Sepetember/08.
IMHO, buy CTs for fun as lottery, don't have any expectations.
Unfortunately, NYM did NOT claim the guarantee, and also you know why our original trustee JPM was switched to NYM.
Most important is that we have to see $$ in our accounts.
You're right. But NYM ignored Linda's arguments.
By the way, the reason that I'm holding CTs is because of NOLs. It might be small but hoping ROI is greater than current market price $0.05/share. CTs are the hybrid ones, and could be on either sides. Also, CTs have the APR before equities.
It does not matter whether you filed the guarantee or not. The reason that NYM did not file it is because NYM DID NOT see any recovery for CTs. The difference between A & L is too huge.
If A>L including the marketing value of NOLs, then debts could be exchanged into equity because some equities are il-liquidated or no inquirers (A&M) for NOLs.
NYM never claimed CTs' guarantee. Linda had long conversation w/NYM.
Before debts are fully paid off, equity (i.e. Lamco = 1 share) is worthless. The reason to have ONE share enables LBHI to emerge out of BK ASAP without sacrificing NOLs now.
However, CTs later can play a different role by possibly taking over NOLs. Then, equity(i,e, ONE share) will be gone. SNHs want to keep CTs as subordinates NOW because they want every blood out from CTs until being paid in full.
What is going to be happened later have the following scenarios while Lamco exists 3 years later.
1) If A>L, of course, all debts are paid off or being exchanged into new debts if there are too may il-liquidated assets. Then, equity gets whatever the residual value is.
2) If A<L, APR applies. If waterfall gets to CTs, CTs would own Lamco completely (i.e. possibly partial in cash too). Think about what had happened in Wamu's case. That's the reasons SNHs had gifted all the value FREE to Jpic because they wanted to control WMI2. SNHs had sophistically managed waterfall ended at Wahuq.
3) If A<L, and waterfall ends at Seniors, CTs will get very little because Senior wishes to keep NOLs ( =suck more from Lamco) by means of CTs. if Seniors decide not to keep NOLs, which I dodubt, then CTs would get nothing at the end.
I have followed the case since Sept/2008 ,and owns 50K of CTs, 25K of J. I did not buy anymore since 1-1/2 years ago, whatever the investment of lottery is pretty enough. MHO
I'm not with ETrade, But, there are many people here w/ETrade.
Hopefully, ETrade would take your second votes only for release or not. If so, it would not damage your distribution of getting new shares in WMI2,
Please refer to board # 362534.
yes, it's same as mine, you can still trade it.