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re:Criminals. I think the whistleblower says something about this also.
FYI, the conversation has moved to the SD board at http://investorshub.advfn.com/SandRidge-Energy-SD-31337/
Moral of the story for us all (me included) is something I was taught by Williams 20 years ago and still holds true: NEVER take more than a 10% loss in any trade-able instrument unless one is just pure gambling. This is the market just telling one that one has made a mistake. Accept the loss and preserve what one has left because the odds are very slim the instrument will regain its former value .
JNelson: Understandably, you are upset because of your loss. Again, that's quite understandable. Please also understand that most of the shareholders of the current common are the previous bondholders. Many of them had purchased what were supposed to be reliable corporate bonds for their retirement portfolio and have lost a significant amount of money themselves. If one had purchased the bond at par and kept it through conversion, then they would have lost 87% of their value when the bond converted.
While you can feel anyway you want for whatever reason you decide, if you want people to have compassion for you because you lost a lot of money, don't you think you should have compassion for the bondholders who also lost a lot of money? Wishing them ill will by lowering their already low value seems a bit like hitting a man when he's down.
Again, your anger and frustration is warranted. All of us common folk holding common level interests are. Maybe lower stock prices will hurt the management and Wells Fargo but I don't think so. It appears that they already secured their rewards before this even left bankruptcy with their bonuses and cancellation of derivatives.
I wish you luck in the lawsuit and hope you win. That will be the only way to punish the thieves who engineered this fiasco.
Read the previous posts. They were cancelled. Again, see the previous posts for details.
Disappointed with ARP; still not trading on a major exchange. Was giving them the benefit of the doubt. But, SD made it happen instantaneously.
Let's not be too harsh. The brokers have other income sreams to fover the real expense. IHub doesn't.
I knew the plan but don't know what the conversion ratios actually used today were. How many unsecured 7.75% bonds became what number of SD shares. They published the warrant and secured, convertible bond ratios (0.053xxx, IIRC) but haven't seen any hard number for unsecured.
SDOCQ was cancelled Tue 10/04 at 15:00. SD traded for about an hour at between $19.50 and $25.00.
56Chevy, What was your exchange rate for the bonds to new shares?
Congo Mining, did your bonds get exchanged? And, at what rate?
Olds bonds to New SD. Anyone know the rate these were exchanged?
As a lets-see-what-happens, I bought 10 bonds two weeks ago. My account still shows the bonds. But, obviously, somebody's bonds were exchanged for any trading to happen on the NYSE.
TIA
Hopefully on a golf course not in an automobile on a public road.
My suspicion is it's people who joined the lawsuit against SDOC. But, IIRC, one had to join that group back at the beginning of August. Since, they are already in the register class of the lawsuit, they may be adding a ton of cheap shares. In for a penny, in for a pound.
The shares are worthless to anyone else.
That's what the company announced.
ES?
Titan contiknurs the them of Atlas. They are both Greek Elder gods. Atlas held up the sky; Prometheus gave us fire; I forgot what Titan did.
Anyone checked out ATLS. Due to bad news it plummeted but I don't think the news actually affects the company as opposed to an "inside investor". How do the bounce rules work in these cases?
That's the magic question. I haven't found anyone who knows or even has a good analysis. We know what they are going to convert and into what we just don't know how much.
See Congo Mining and my posts a couple weeks ago.
It will not GO TO $1. What I was saying was, that when the price fell from $4, one could have sold at $1 and bought back $0.01 then resold at $0.04 making back all of the original loss.
I'm buying an Aston-Martin when the judge rules on BBEPQ. I doubt if I'll hold it all of the way through bankruptcy. I've seen way too many shenanigans with oil company bankruptcies.
Not really reminding you but those who refuse to believe that the commons will be wiped out. While I'm fairly new here, it boggles my mind the number of people who keep asking that question. Either they don't read previous posts (even on the same day) or they just can't get it into their head that, yes, they can loose EVERYTHING. <shrug>
And to be transparent, I am long in a couple of BK stocks, bought in the pennies. But, in total, they are <$10k investment with possible 6-figure returns if even one pops. I expect to loose half my investment (stop-losses firmly in place) from the ones that don't pan out but hit the 6-figures for the one or maybe two who do.
We shall see, if it works out, I'll buy steaks for anyone who cares to come visit and celebrate.
Don't ride. Sell at $1.00, buy back at $0.20 or less. Which is my point. Yes, if you had ridden the stock out, it would now be trading at $5ish. OTOH, even selling at $0.55 you could easily have bought back 2-3x times the number of shares for the same dollar investment just a while later.
So, for a $1k investment, riding that $0.55/share gets one back about $9k if the price hits $5. OTOH, Selling at %0.55 and buying back at $0.20 gives one a $25K return.
Common shares will NOT be converted in any case. There is NO situation where they will be converted. Even if the courts issue an immediate injunction preventing the bankruptcy action, that would only mean there is no conversion at all.
I know this is hard to believe for some, but, yes, the courts are quite willing to completely wipe out the common shares' investment. This is why shares of BK companies fall from whole dollars to pennies.
When a company files for bankruptcy sell the common THAT DAY. If one believes in the company, one will then be able to buy that same stock at literally pennies on the dollar a couple days/weeks later. IF there is any redemption, then one could make a significant return on the stock bought for pennies in bankruptcy. This is a high risk investment but the shares were bought at pennies so the dollar amount risked should be low.
Once a stock enters bankruptcy there is almost 0% chance that the common stock price will be any where near it's former normal trading price.
Has anyone done an evaluation of the plan?
Looks like $305M worth of bonds are going to be converted to stock but I don't see any specifics.
Today's Vol 200 @28.50-29.50
Obviously the price is falling because there are no buyers because this isn't on an open and public market.
Fairly disgusted with Atlas. I understand filing paperwork takes time but they need to be open about expected time frames.
I've emailed and called Atlas with this same quesion. No response, not even an acknowledgement that I called or emailed.
In a Roth IRA ...
for current income. I will defer to others.
It surprised me.
I wasn't worried on 9/1 as I expected the conversion. Wasn't expecting it would take a couple weeks for my account to show any value. After a bit of research, it makes sense but was a bit of shock. Basically, they have many filings with different agencies, SEC, etc to do and each takes 3-4 days. I wasn't worried but with the earnings call coming out soon, that means that will happen with everything frozen. I don't like to go through earnings with assets in play without a really good idea what's going to happen.
Green means bought at a higher price than the last high price; red means bought at a lower price; and black means at the same price or an "other" trade just now being posted for the record.
Also note: Asset is frozen from effective date until the shares are relisted on a major stock exchange.
My test buy of such bonds for Atlas Resources (ARPJQ) is still frozen. ARP's effective date was 9/1. At COB 9/1, the common shares disappeared and the bonds had a placeholder with n/a in the fields. Currently, my broker has the converted shares from the bonds listed under a temporary ID but without a price. The qty is correct but without a price the value is $0 in my account. Also, it's listed as "restricted trading" so I can't do anything with it.
All will be cleared up when it is re-issued but in the meantime, there is a hole. Be prepared for this and make sure this won't affect anything such as minimum balances, margin, etc.
Bonds are $100 Face Value, usually.
Also, as I discovered, when one orders a bond, they are actually buying 10 such bonds.
So, 0.07 on the dollar means that a $100 bond FV is trading for $7. Since one buys 10 bonds with an order, your order of 5 really is 50 bonds.
5 (qty ordered) x 10 (bonds in an order) x $7 (price per bond) ~ $350. This would give you bonds with a FV of $5000.
Congo Miner, please check my math. My gut says that should be $50k bonds.
Please note that SandRidge has 5 different bonds. They will all convert equally per their original FV. They could be trading at different amounts.
Also, did that $480 include fees? I suspect they may have quoted you a price on a bond currently trading at $9 and added $30 for fees. ($25/order + $1/bond order).
That was unbecoming.
First of all, I never bought SD*, so your sarcasm is wasted.
We've had a pleasant conversation; I've learned a lot; and I have thanked you for that. I'm not sure I deserve the snarkiness. While I may disagree with you and Chevy on some point, that doesn't mean we have to take personal shots at each other.
This isn't my first investing rodeo, just my first one where they shoot the horses. A wise investor goes looking for sources of good information. That is what I was doing. Just learning where those shots would be coming from.
A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others.
CM, Can you remove the sticky about Canada's richest man holding SDOC. He sold his interest in 2016Q1 per
http://www.dataroma.com/m/m_activity.php?m=FFH&typ=a
Thank you. LOTS of information to sort through.
Thank you for the assistance.
But, I will disagree that JPM, etc are irrelevant. They might be SPECIFICALLY to SD but they are not to this situation in general. Specifically, manipulations by the banks are the reason BBEP* is in BK. Wells Fargo held the other side of the hedges, the credit facility, part of the first lien, and, at least, the preferreds. They sold the preferreds on the inside information that they were going to call the credit.
They wanted to do that to force the BK so they could wipe out the hedges because they didn't want to pay $82 per barrel. In the past, they had simply taken delivery of the oil if hedges were a bit askew. In this case, that much of a price difference would have significant hurt their reserves and bottom line. In fractional banking, better to write off a loan that has a miniscule affect on one's reserve and position with the FED rather than take a real hit to those reserves and face examination by the FED.
You may think this is a distraction. I beg to differ, ANYTHING that forces one of my investments into BK is something I should pay attention to. I focus on BOTH things that help me make and lose money.
Yes, $500M was a drop in the bucket compared to their profits that year as was clearly stated in the news article.
CM, Thank you for that information.
Per chance, do you remember the source. I was looking but, apparently, not searching for the right terms.
No, I didn't.
Correction, no ARP* is NOT TRADING as of 9/1.
Sorry, I am following 4 different BK stocks. One of them, SDOCQ, just had a major ruling last Friday. I thought you were referring to that one instead of ARP.
Again, sorry for my confusion.
Actually ARP commons were canceled as of 9/1.
Notice that you can't get a quote for them.