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In my opinion your order won't fill unless the bid goes to zero and the ask goes to 0001. That's the way it's been in the past.
Sorry, I missed that last down tick. And in pinky land huge swings are common. But the problem is; what good is your pink sheet stock going up 100% in a day when only 500,000 shares traded hands at wide spreads between bid and ask and you have several million shares you'd like to unload and get that price on? It would never happen as your selling just a small portion of your holdings would create enough selling pressure on the thinly traded stock to wipe out that 100% gain.
That's the problem with the pinks. The wide spreads between bid and ask make it very difficult to sell or buy at a good price without being taken to the cleaners by the MMs.
For example, say the stock opens the day at $0.0012 and the current price is up 100% or at $0.0024. It would be very difficult to get that price if you wanted to sell because the best bid could very likely be only $0.0012. In other words the bid/ask could be .0012/.0024. Wide spreads like that are very common when trading on the pinks because there is no liquidity (or very little). You also get raped like that if you want to buy on big dips, because most orders in pinky land won't fill unless you hit the ask and very often the ask is at a huge premium to the current bid.
Trust me, if you have your choice between your stock trading on the OTCBB or Pink Sheets, you do not want Pink Sheets.
Now if they can string together 4 more 50% up days UPDV.PK will be at .006, where it was 7 weeks ago. Granted, it's a "big" if.
It's not a matter of "if" it's a matter of "when". Delisting date is today but it goes into effect tomorrow the 23rd.
http://www.otcbb.com/asp/dailylist_search.asp?DirectSymbol=UPDVE&OTCBB=OTCBB
Maybe he owns his own hedge fund LOL!
I guess it doesn't mean a whole lot but HTOG down 25% today in Germany as I type this.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=HOCA.F
Slob, I sold to raise cash. Back when I posted that, UPDVE's share price was $0.0015. Since then (1 week), it dropped another 50%. I saw previous support around .0013 and I posted before that if it fell below the old support of .0013 that the bottom would probably fall out. Well, it fell below .0013 and fell hard (down to .0007).
In my opinion it will still fall more, and if the ask goes to around $0.0004 I may add. If this hits the pinks, volume could dry up to less than 1M shares traded per day. So I didn’t want to get stuck with 4 or 5 days worth of trading volume in my own possession (because it would be impossible for me to sell them all on a spike without dragging the share price back down because of my selling alone). I got stuck in that situation when I had way too many shares of TTGL after it got delisted from the OTCBB and got relegated to the pinks ... and it wasn’t pretty!
I kept 1,318,000 shares of UPDVE just in case it decides to change course and goes up instead of down. At one point I had over 5M shares at an average cost of around $0.004. But since I sold most of my shares, the average cost of the shares that I kept are $0.01339 or $17,600 total. So technically I haven’t lost $17K “yet”, but there’s still a good chance that these shares can become worthless if Universal can’t raise financing to service their debt (they even stated that in their last 10Q).
Bank financing is now out of the question for UPDVE so that just leaves them with equity financing (or death spiral financing with a loan shark such as Cornell). And at such a low current share price, even equity financing won’t cut it with only 2B shares authorized. So unless the share price goes up drastically (at least 10 or 15 fold from the current level of .0008) UPDVE will be left with no choice but to increase their authorized share count once again. And in my opinion they’d need to increase it to at least 5B to 10B shares (then increase the OS accordingly) if they are to remain as a going concern over the next 12 months. They may even try another reverse split like 1 share for every 100 (or worse) and we already know that that’s not the answer (or put it this way … it’s not the answer for shareholders).
I picked up some SIRI at .74 last week and more last Wednesday at .78 with some of the UPDVE proceeds but sold most of it on Friday at .98 to lock in the quick gains to offset some of the UPDVE losses. SIRI may go higher but I think it’ll come back down to around 75 cents or lower and I plan to get more if it does.
To sum it all up, I lightened up on UPDVE because I see no support on the share price (with a new all-time low almost every day) and I think the price will go lower. And should it, I will have cash in my account to get my original position back at half the cost. I think the SP will go lower for four reasons: 1) the overall doom and gloom in the markets, 2) the money moving out of oil and energy stocks in general, 3) more UPDVE dilution on the horizon, and 4) the fact that Kamal has lost all faith and credibility with most investors and potential investors who may have been following this.
But hey, if the price goes up from here I’ll be happy along with you as I still own a few shares. And if the share price goes lower I’ll be happy knowing that I lightened up to cut my losses. I’m happy either way now and it’s a good place to be in this market.
Here’s hoping only for the best to you!
Some of the sells you see at .0001 are actually buys at .00019 because L2 only shows 4 places to the right of the decimal. And in my opinion actual sells at .0001 are between MM's who in turn offer them to you @ .0002 and keep the spread. So unless the bid is zero and the ask is .0001, you probably won't get a fill at .0001.
No real reason for optimism in the Dow, etc. The economy is still in the toilet and consumer confidence very low. So what if the Fed is bailing out banks? All tax payers have to pay for it and eventually that'll be reflected back into the overall economy. More money from our pockets equals more people hurting for cash and even less confidence. The dow is still on it's way to new 52 week lows.
And keep in mind more and more baby boomers are exiting the stock market stage left as they move portfolios to safety to preserve capital for retirement. And this will continue for the next 10 to 15 years in my opinion. And though naked short selling is illegal and not good, legal short selling is a good thing as it balances out the market and keeps things better in check. A lot of todays action in the dow is because of the temporary ban on short selling.
You can buy with unsettled funds from a trade as long as you don't sell the shares you just bought before the funds settle. Selling before they settle would be considered a free ride which is frowned upon.
For example, and I'm assuming the shares you currently hold are with settled funds: You can sell all your shares today and re-buy on Monday with the unsettled funds from today's trade. But the shares you buy on Monday cannot be sold until today's trade plus 3 days.
I've been saying the same thing every day for the past 3 weeks and that's what did me in. Face it, this is not the bottom. And if UPDVE reverse splits again to say 1 for 100 and gets the price post split to 7 cents they can quadruple the AS to 8B shares and dilute the crap out of the stock once again to the triple zeros. Really in theory, this can drop another 99.99% from todays price.
No, selling now is not really giving your money away. Look at it like this, sell 2 million shares at .0007 and then buy 4 million shares with the proceeds at .00035. For no costs other than broker fees for two trades you double your position!
I only wish I had been doing that at .003, or .002, or .001, or .0009, but never in my wildest dreams did I see the bottom falling out like this. I kept holding waiting for the pop that never happened. For no cost I could have increased my holdings from 4.3M shares to 29.5M shares, but noooooooooo! I was a dummy!
So what do I do? I sell 75% of my shares at near all time low just to preserve a little of my capital and keep 1.3M just in case this thing ever decides to change direction. I could kick myself though. I could be sitting on over 24M shares at the same cost as the 1.3M shares that I'm currently holding.
But it's not all bad, the proceeds from my UPDVE sales I put into SIRI and I'm currently up over 33% since I did just a couple days ago.
Yes, till 5:30PM eastern time to get it all in to EDGAR ... but don't hold your breath because it's not going to happen.
You're like I am. I'm still invested in this though I lightened up my load 75%, but yet I don't mind calling a spade a spade. Kamal deserves to be bashed at this point in time in my opinion. The number one job of a CEO before anything else is to create shareholder value, and everything else falls below that. WTF has Kamal done for us over the past years?
And in my opinion, late SEC filings are inexcusable for any company regardless of the circumstances. Of course they're always going to have excuses for being late, but tough sh_t! Just file like the rest of the "real" companies do! They can blame it on the SEC because they're still waiting for an approval to their revisions, but I don't feel sorry for them. If they conformed to Sarbox and filed the Ks and Qs properly in the first place they wouldn't be in the mess they're in.
And the SEC won't extend their time to file regardless of what anyone thinks. They put that "E" after the symbol for a reason. It flags the stock for delisting if a company can't file within the grace period. UPDVE can pay the $4K and request an appeal to stall off the inevitable, but all FINRA tries to determine in an appeal hearing is whether or not the company filed timely. So clearly UPDVE would lose on that one.
I also believe that once UPDV goes to the pinks that the stock could still fly. All it would take is the filings and a positive update from the company. But once UPDV lands in the pinks Kamal may just decide to never file because he no longer has to, so that's the risk.
Well UPDVE never fails to disappoint. I was expecting another down day for them as the rest of the markets rally big time and sure enough, UPDVE still manages to blow some off. My prediction, Monday .0005 or lower. I was really wrong on this one ... the steaming POS.
If I manage to get out of this stock with a little dignity, I learned my lesson. Never again will I invest in another Kamal business. I'll have a big platter of crow now bashers. Can you serve it up? I'm getting hungry and it's past my lunchtime.
Here's a very helpful dictionary of terms for the penny stock investor:
http://freedomfunds.net/edu/pinkdict.html
I agree built2trade. It happens. Here's another scam pinkie that got nailed. And as a matter of fact, sentencing for the CEO is set for this October ... he already pleaded guilty at the end of July:
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/pae/News/Pr/2007/jul/plant2.html
And pink isn't the end of the world in my opinion. Would give UPDV time to catch up on the filings. Once caught up and after serving a one year sentence they can get back onto the OTCBB. The worst thing about the pinks is the lack of liquidity. Trading volume usually dries up and the spreads between bid and ask are usually huge making it difficult to buy or sell without taking a hit.
I still think that when UPDV finally does report, that the numbers will be decent. That's why I decided to hang on to a few shares. And unless they're filing for bankruptcy, their market cap is truly undervalued at $800K - $1.6M max.
Still too is that snowball's chance in hell that the SEC will cut them some slack and give them more time to file without being delisted. But I can't personally recall the SEC ever doing that. I owned a stock before that fell below the minimum price requirement to remain listed on the NASDAQ, and the SEC gave the company an additional 6 months to get their price back up.
Actually from what I learned in math class this would be a 135.7% gain (.0014 to .0033).
Someone painted the tape with a $178.00 trade (198,000 shares)LOL! There'll be more dumping tomorrow with no 10-Q. My guess is we'll see .0004 or lower sometimes tomorrow.
Kamal had a lot of debt to service. In their SEC filings they stated that unless they could raise the capital needed to service that debt that they would have to discontinue operations. At the low SP of all their subs, Kamal can't possibly raise anything meaningful through equity financing to help that cause.
You say market cap $78.5K. That's based on 98M shares outstanding. Certainly OS is currently somewhere between 1B and 2B shares. So current market cap somewhere between $800K and $1.6M. Cheap in my opinion if they're still a going concern. But if they're going bankrupt, even a $78.5K market cap is $78.5K too high.
Hey, all we can do is assume things as we can't get any real info or data from Kamal. But in my opinion, no news is bad news. As much as Kamal has hurt shareholders over the years you can bet that he's still sitting pretty.
Not in a million years. Thus I unloaded 3 million shares yesterday afternoon. Keeping 1.32M shares as a token souvenir in hopes maybe it can pop to 1.3 cents per share in the next few years to recover the $17K that I lost here.
I guess it could have been worse. I may pick up more of this when it hits .0001 in a few weeks to lower my average cost on the 1.3M shares that I'm keeping. No doubt in my mind that this is going to the pinks. Thought I'd dump the majority of my shares while there was still a little trading volume.
Picked up a few shares of Sirius recently at 74 cents. I think Mel will raise the cash needed to service the debt until they can be cash flow positive. They'd be there now if the FCC didn't drag their feet so long on the approval. The cost savings alone between the synergies of the merger would have accomplished that. I year delay in merger postponed positive cash flow by a year.
Best of luck to all the faithful UPDV shareholders remaining.
Go to Nev Sec of State website to confirm current A/S. The last update was on Aug 11th 2008 and the A/S was 2B shares. Here's the link:
https://esos.state.nv.us/SOSServices/AnonymousAccess/CorpSearch/corpActions.aspx?lx8nvq=lisF54chDj9xJB%252fV2JB5RQ%253d%253d&CorpName=UNIVERSAL+PROPERTY+DEVELOPMENT+AND+ACQUISITION+CORPORATION
My guess is that it is a lot higher than that. About two weeks ago I asked him in an email what the OS was and he replied back that he guessed the float to be around 800M. Now remember, the float doesn't include other shares in the OS that are restricted. My guess is that the current OS is somewhere around 1.5B shares +/-, but no more than 2B. I just checked with Nev Sec of State and AS is still 2B.
I'd wait until tomorrow when it's at .0005 or less. Get much more bang for the buck.
True they decided to delay filing the 2nd qtr, but not because they "intended" to go to the pinks, but because without correct prior numbers any numbers posted on the June 08 10-Q would be meaningless, or maybe cause even more harm than good.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this topic.
Look, UPDV has a history of filing late. Maybe until they can get their act in order the pinkies is where they belong. I can't think of one good reason why Kamal would "prefer" to trade in the pinks over the OTCBB. That doesn't make any sense to me.
Correct, they will need to appeal to FINRA first, but if they don't like FINRA's decision they can then appeal to the SEC. FINRA won't cut them any slack in my opinion because a late filing is a late filing regardless of circumstances ... but it can delay a delisting as they go through the procedures. Only the SEC can overrule a decision by FINRA, but in the case of late filings I don't see the SEC budging either.
I was involved in a stock once before that got a delisting notice and the company appealed and the SEC granted them six more months. But it wasn't concerning a late filing, it was in regards to the company's stock price and the minimum stock price required to be listed on the NASDAQ. The SEC allowed this company six additional months to get their stock price up to the minimum level ... which the company ultimately did.
"... The issuer may appeal the final FINRA action (either the Hearing Officer’s decision or the NAC decision, as applicable) to the SEC ..."
http://www.otcbb.com/faqs/otcbb_faq.stm#General topic #24
It appears to me that UPDV didn't fully understand Sarbox. Thus they need to reinstate past filings to correct errors. A monumental task in my opinion correcting all those past filings.
I don't believe for a second that UPDV prefers to be delisted, I sincerely believe that time is just not on their side. If demoted to the pinks they have plenty of time to play catch up. A one year sentence minimum. Should they get current with their filings while in the pinks, they can reapply to trade once again on the OTCBB.
Pinks isn't necessarily a death sentence, as some stocks trade well there. But for the most part, boring companies with no real "story", trading volume usually dries up to just about nothing making it very difficult to buy or sell at a decent price.
But technically UPDV has till 5:30PM Eastern time this coming Friday to file with EDGAR. I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell of them doing that, but you never know. They can appeal a delisting decision by FINRA to the SEC, but all that will do is postpone the inevitable if they are indeed late with filing.
If everyone watched out after "themselves" there'd be no need for the "community" to have do it for them. I'll look after myself thank you ... and accept full responsibility for my actions or inactions.
Sale them? I see that phrase used quite a bit on stock message boards. People in the USA don't use the word "sale" in such context, rather we use the word "sell". What country are you posting from? Just curious ;)
If their attorney knows for fact it's a done deal no harm no foul.
You're right, it filled after I removed AON. Thanks.
I want to buy at .0001 but my order still hasn't filled. No one wants to buy eh? Don't be so sure of yourself.
Not really. FFGO can just buy directly from a MM's inventory. And if the MM wants the business bad enough they'll sell to them even if they don't have all the shares requested in their inventory. MM's often go short to get deals and worry about getting the shares later.
You're assuming they're not buying because retail is not selling to them at .0001. But there's no law that if they are buying back shares that they have to do so on the "open" market.
Good luck to you as well Oaks and best of luck to you and yours with that new clinic! I'm sinking with this ship but have my diving tanks on. That should help for a while anyway. Hope this rises from the ashes before my oxygen runs out.
Can a company appeal the removal of its securities from the OTCBB?
The issuer of a security quoted on the OTCBB may appeal the removal of its securities to a Hearing Officer appointed by the FINRA Office of Hearing Officers pursuant to the NASD Rule 9700 Series. The request for an appeal hearing must be received by the Office of Hearing Officers at least two days prior to the scheduled removal of the security, together with evidence that the issuer has paid a $4,000 hearing fee. A hearing request will stay the removal of the issuer’s securities from the OTCBB, pending the Hearing Officer’s decision. . Unless otherwise ordered by the Hearing Officer, hearings will be conducted via telephone. The Office of Hearing Officers will provide the issuer at least 5 business days notice of the hearing unless the issuer waives such notice.
At a brief telephonic hearing, the Hearing Officer will determine whether the Company’s securities are eligible for quotation on the OTCBB under NASD Rules 6530 and 6540. The Hearing Officer will consider only the issues of whether the issuer’s security is then eligible for quotation on the OTCBB and/or whether the issuer filed a complete report by the applicable due date taking into account any extensions pursuant to SEC Rule 12b-25. The Hearing Officer does not have discretion to grant any extensions of time for ineligible securities to become eligible.
May a company appeal the Hearing Officer’s decision?
The issuer may not appeal the decision within FINRA, but before a Hearing Officer’s decision is issued, it is considered and may be called for review by the National Adjudicatory Committee (NAC). If the decision is called for review, the NAC will issue a decision, which will constitute the final FINRA action. Otherwise, the Hearing Officer’s decision will be issued, and will constitute the final FINRA action. The issuer may appeal the final FINRA action (either the Hearing Officer’s decision or the NAC decision, as applicable) to the SEC.
Source, http://www.otcbb.com/faqs/otcbb_faq.stm#General , topic number 23 and 24 under general questions. See topic 20, 21 and 22 as well for more specifics on delisting.
Then obviously you don't live in CT. Hamburger here is $4.89 a lb at best, usually around $5.39 for 80 or 90% lean. A lb of Oscar Meyer bacon is $5.29 and well over $4/gallon for milk. Rib eye steak averages around $15 to $17 lb, I quit buying that since I moved from the Midwest LOL!
But then it doesn't surprise me. CT is one of the highest taxed states in the union. I don't smoke but my wife smokes Virginia Slims and they're $6.37 a pack at the Stop & Shop here. I buy them illegally now off the internet for about exactly half that.
In CT they fully tax all retirement income (I'm not retired yet but hopefully I'm the hell outta here before I am), tax on all services too, not just tangible things. For example, take your car to the shop and there's a 6% sales tax on both parts and labor. Highest gasoline tax in the union too. CT state income tax is 5%. My property taxes on a $325K home is $7,500/yr and that's before my new assessment at 25% higher. And there isn't even such a thing as natural gas in our city. Heating is mostly all oil here and last time I filled up my 275 gallon tank it was $4.20/gallon. I go through a full tank of heating oil in about 2 weeks when the temps are below 20 degrees, and it's already been in the 40s at night so it's not too far off.
Sorry for the bitchin. Hate the politics, most of the people, and the taxes in CT. Hope to move back to my old stompin grounds in rural southern IL ... sometimes before I die.
LMAO! But yep, that's a good idea! FWIW, you're in at a better average than I am so congrats!
I think for a $4K fee they can protest any SEC decision to delist them and be granted a stay. I think I read that on the SEC's website somewhere and will try to find a link and more details and post it here.
But I'm not going to call Jack either because I’m a big wussy
Actually, he's been gracious to me so far but I think he's being harassed enough already by all the disgruntled HTOG shareholders with their concerns over the awful dilution in the 5star deal. And besides, I think if UPDV had anything good to say they’d say it in a PR. At this point, I’m just not so sure we’d get the truth from Jack anyway. He’s probably so fed up by now with all the abuse from UPDVE and HTOG shareholders that he’d probably just tell us something that he thinks we want to hear, rather than the truth.