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Conference Call Comments
Basically there was lots of good news on the call. The only fly in the ointment and the shorts are going to use this, is the comment about the time-frame the judge has to make a ruling. There was nothing new in the statement but lawyers are not trained in public relations. We know that the maximum time is 60 days so that is not new however the way it was framed it just creates doubt and uncertainty which the 12 million plus short shares will use to their advantage. If you go back and listen to the call it was NOT stated that it would take 60 days ...the comment was it could take anywhere from 2 weeks to 60 days...in other words it could happen at any time. If it was phrased that way we don't get the AH pressure and the certain pressure tomorrow. Until all the post trial motions are filed I don't expect a ruling but after they are done it could literally be any day..ALL IMHO...
Some People are pathetic in my opinion. If you listened to the cc for example when the question of the possible jury error was asked..the company said they could not comment due to securities regulations however if no actions could be taken they would have said so....when lawyers say they can't comment it means they are doing something. They also said there are more motions to be filed. So you can choose to act on what you think you heard but the reality is always quite different....
looks like the answer to my question is breakdown....range being lowered...
Sorry don't want to sound disrespectful but ..with the way this has traded...you have no idea where it could go so your opinion is just that....if we get an announcement for judge...settlement talks...rumours of other companies looking at Vringo etc..is it going to stay below $3.50?
range getting tighter...I see $3.39 - $3.40....usually this pattern leads to a breakout or breakdown...we will see soon which way...
Look at a five minute chart and you can clearly see the $3.40 to $3.43 accumulation zone...
Judge Jackson track record in patent suits...
Just reading ActiveVideos suit against Verizon...here is an excerpt of findings..
On Oct. 13, Judge Raymond Jackson of the same court issued a ruling finding that ActiveVideo is entitled to supplemental damages of $17.4 million plus prejudgment interest of $6.7 million. In addition, Verizon was ordered to pay post-judgment interest for patent infringement as of Aug. 2 when the jury decision was entered.
He seems to validate the jurors findings and add punitive damages . Let's hope he does likewise here...
Where do you get this idea?
Frustration myself included is that the markets don't reflect the victory ...but now that it is that the markets will...one can be impatient or not...VHC past is instructive...the markets will reflect reality when is the 700 million dollar question..so chose to be frustrated or choose to understand what has happened and what most likely will...
same pattern as yesterday in the same area....this is accumulation for sure otherwise the stock would plummet
So did I ...however given how much this stock has been manipulated to date are you really surprised. I am not..huge short position...needs clarity from courts..coming..I will be patient...I was not sure about win now that they have it not concerned about day to day gyrations....longer-term is my focus.
Ok let's forget ZTE...but your other point I don't understand..they already proved they could win..the markets have fixated on the lack of clarity but that's coming..the win is done.
That is something VHC was able to do.
That's because you have not seen the end of the story here. When the decisions have been made..I am not sure why you would not be excited. Basically if you are long you should be patient patience is a virtue. If you study the VHC initial award there was also a lag before the markets appreciated the magnitude of their win. How many early VHC longs got spooked on no movement after their win and are now saying what if?
Agreed...What I find interesting here is that the longs seems to be on the defensive? What is clear and indisputable is that Vringo won on every level. The current damage award whether it stands at $30 million plus interest costs or get revalued to the more logical $170 million plus ongoing royalties...plus $55 million in the bank plus lawsuits against ZTE..more to come on search patents etc...it is the shorts who should be nervous! The judge can rule on the matter at any time. As a person with a sizeable position more than 100,000 shares the risk associated with this trade is off the table..This now requires patience. Short positions will get closed out soon.
GLTA..
"Most courts have also set the post-verdict ongoing royalty higher than the pre-verdict rate"
I assume Ravicher's logic here is that the judge's ruling should be in line with the jury's monetary awards, no matter how out of whack it works out to be math wise.
ActiveVideo Networks, Inc. v. Verizon Communications, Inc. et al - Document 1209
Judge Jackson's track record
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/virginia/vaedce/2%3A2010cv00248/254174/1209/
Forbes Article
Technology firm Vringo (VRNG) was awarded $32 million in past damages from Google, AOL (AOL), Target (TGT), Gannett (GCI) and IAC/InterActive (IACI). In addition to that past damage award, the jury also granted a reasonable royalty rate of 3.5% on the search-advertising revenue of infringing firms. That royalty rate lasts until Vringo’s intellectual property ownership expires in 2016 and is estimated to equate to at least $125 Million per year for five years.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2012/11/08/patents-an-insiders-take-on-the-high-margin-offensive-defensive-weapon/
This article references 790
http://seekingalpha.com/article/990441-vringo-and-the-mystery-of-sealed-court-document-790
100,000 shares just got gobbled up @ 3.38.....
New S/A Article..What will follow the jury's verdict?
http://seekingalpha.com/article/990021-vringo-vs-google-what-will-follow-the-jury-s-verdict?source=email_rt_article_readmore&ifp=0
Because you can't ask for something that hasn't been corrected...if the interest is awarded to the current amount there is no reason why it wouldn't be allowed if they amend the award
Nice find ...thank You
So what your saying is because he didn't write a techcruch article in doesn't matter? Your logic is flawed. This is his opinion regardless...I agree with him... once all of this confusion is lifted we will see if he's right. It is all noise till then anyway. Lots of shorts in this stock and so far they have been given gifts...let's see what happens the the tide turns...
Not true James Altucher has posted his thoughts on another forum...
Where it should trade - Altucher
« Thread Started Yesterday at 2:02pm »
- $30mm, plus they have $50mm in the bank
- royalty settlement worth about $500 million+
- NOK patents worth about $200 million
- an ability to show that they can buy patents accretively so every $1 in the bank is worth more
- the ability to now go after MSFT/YHOO + every other GOOG customer.
- 114mm shares outstanding
Who knows where the kneejerk trading is right after the unhalt. But it can reasonably be instantly valued around $8-10 with upside of up to $20-30 in the long run.
Read more: http://vringo.freeforums.net/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=280#ixzz2BZcVEG8W
Not necessarily I am sure this isn't the only filing
So if they are calculating 3.5% interest from date of filing shouldn't Vringo also receive 3.25% on top of the $30,000,000?
Recalculations for prejudgement interest..$643,000
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByyR-FelC5OTb3FFR1JWNl9uakU/edit?pli=1
They may make other filings regarding error this just asks for interest and cites case law...
obviously he meant $158,000,000 for rounding
What do you expect them to say....we lost and we will pay now? Commenting on Google not your post BTW.....
Of course there isn't ..because if there was they would have presented their solution to the jury...the fundamental way their searches work is tied into Lang's patents and they would have to change the code completely to accomplish a work around...too risky...its easier to pay Vringo than do that....
Comments by James Altucher ...Upside $20 -$30
- $30mm, plus they have $50mm in the bank
- royalty settlement worth about $500 million+
- NOK patents worth about $200 million
- an ability to show that they can buy patents accretively so every $1 in the bank is worth more
- the ability to now go after MSFT/YHOO + every other GOOG customer.
- 114mm shares outstanding
Who knows where the kneejerk trading is right after the unhalt. But it can reasonably be instantly valued around $8-10 with upside of up to $20-30 in the long run.
Read more: http://vringo.freeforums.net/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=280#ixzz2BXPdfg2x
Judge Adjusts Damage Award to Account for Jury Errors in Apple v. Samsung
So this can be done for any naysayers....
http://news.doddleme.com/equipment/judge-adjusts-damage-award-to-account-for-jury-errors-in-apple-v-samsung/
I agree the 3.5% rate should be calculated from the date of the lawsuit.....once this is clarified we should be on more solid ground....the current award should be over $100 million plus future royalties...@ 3.5% rate. To suggest that the Judge is going to lower juries decision is preposterous if anything he will enhance it as he has done in previous patent rulings....
More news Services will be posting correct information like this...that is $625 million plus $30 mill or $655 Million dollars plus new lawsuits against Microsoft and Yahoo will bring in more money
Early Reports Indicate Vringo’s Court Victory Worth Over $500 Million
Posted by admin on Nov 6th, 2012 // No Comments
Sources in the Virginia courtroom who saw a jury award Vringo’s (AMEX:VRNG) subsidiary I/P Engine $32M in past damages plus 3.5 percent royalties on its patents until they expire in 2016 say the deal will total more than $125 Million per year for five years.
The federal jury awarded judgements against a handful of technology giants, including Google Inc (NASDAQ: GOOG),AOL (NYSE:AOL), Target (NYSE:TGT) and Gannett (GCI) in the widely publicized lawsuit.
More lawsuits coming
Now that the courts have determined the patents are valid I am sure Vringo will be going after Microsoft and Yahoo, difference being there won't be any court cases just settlement talks....plus ZTE lawsuits...whatever the market reacts this is going to start going much higher...
Update from Mike
Re: Update 12:33
« Reply #3 Today at 12:36pm »
And mike was just told by counsel "This is it"
Read more: http://vringo.freeforums.net/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=232#ixzz2BSutDwnM