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Hi Wamunut,
difficult to guess but maybe
1 to 10 Billion settlement with GS (see http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/replies.aspx?msg=82848727 )
which approximately means
10% to 100% FV for (old) preferred shares (Cayman, P, K)
0,178 to 1,78 USD for (old) commons (see http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=82846450)
IMO
JPM got its releases when the POR was approved, unless fraud is probed we can not sue JPM again
IMO
Thanks xoom ¡¡
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1143930/000091205701531093/a2058482zs-3a.htm#01SEA1437_1
http://www.wmitrust.com/documents/8817600/8817600121101000000000002.pdf
wahuq ( PIERS in link 2) were 23.000.000 units( see link 1)
Hopefully will get around 10 usd a share
Posted from mobile device ( sorry)
Situation has improved since 09/30/12 as Wahuq are much closer to the money
Why on friday? TIA
Thanks Pick, totally concur...
I was just trying to establish a previous, vague (generic, no M&A) but real conection between WMIH, Carlyle and Duff & Phelps Corp.
"The Hidden deal
Duff & Phelps Corp. (NYSE: DUF) is up 19.7% at $15.62. The investment bank is being acquired by a consortium including The Carlyle Group LP (NASDAQ: CG) for about $661 million. More coverage here. ....."
Duff & Phelps Corp
http://sec.edgar-online.com/wmi-holdings-corp/8-k-current-report-filing/2012/03/26/section25.aspx (see page 21 : " Qualified Valuation Firm " means, the following firms: Perella Weinberg Partners LP, Evercore Partners, Houlihan Lokey, FBR & Co., Zolfo Cooper, LLC, Duff & Phelps Corp., Sandler O'Neill + Partners, L.P., Goldin Associates, L.L.C., AlixPartners, and Kinetic Partners, or any other firms mutually agreed to by Borrower and Required Lenders, in each case having expertise in the relevant insurance or financial sector related to the proposed Acquisition.")
The Carlyle Group LP
Don mentioned a connection...
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=41953292
Could be??
Time will tell us...
I don't know... They were part of the this filing..
http://sec.edgar-online.com/wmi-holdings-corp/8-k-current-report-filing/2012/03/26/section25.aspx
See page 21
Hi Royal
Maybe not strong but at least M&A possibility ....
personally
I will hold the couple of 2012 trading hours left
GLTA
Link?
Thanks in advance
Hi Clay
According to your chart perspective
Once / If we break 0.9 & 1.14 resistance levels (maybe / very probably on monday 12/31/12), where is our ceiling?
Thanks in advance
Congratulations ¡¡
Hi Trade
Totally concur with your analisis but a little bit skeptical with the integrity of the judicial system (and the whole system itself)
Anyway waiting for Wamugold's input about this
GLTA
Ok, so we need a 10+ Billion settlement for preferred shares (Cayman, P, K) to exceed their caps; This would be a fair (but unlikely) scenario
Umaw
Muchfaster´s input in this link gives you a detailed answer
http://finance.yahoo.com/mbview/threadview/?&bn=e22bfbdd-fccd-3365-8bb3-5feac81ed75a&tid=1351359422104-a821f972-2ea3-4288-9aeb-89212a5f3248&mid=00004b000000000000000000000000-1c86ba47-d372-40eb-908d-9574d8e84c84
FISCAL YEAR END: 1231
" ISSUER:
COMPANY DATA:
COMPANY CONFORMED NAME: WMI HOLDINGS CORP.
CENTRAL INDEX KEY: 0000933136
STANDARD INDUSTRIAL CLASSIFICATION: SAVINGS INSTITUTION, FEDERALLY CHARTERED [6035]
IRS NUMBER: 911653725
STATE OF INCORPORATION: WA
FISCAL YEAR END: 1231 "
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/933136/000120919112059102/0001209191-12-059102.txt
Something about 12 USD a share, merger with a large bank...
Big,
Do you think OL´s can be monetized after 12/31/2012?
Level of trustability??
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/profilea.aspx?user=374051
Toyguy
According to your info, When will it be official?
Thanks in advance
Royal
Are we 100% sure the fiscal year (in terms of monetizing our OL´s) ends on 12/31/2012?
May an exception apply and end later (on 03/16/2013)?
Let's have faith and wait a few more ( no more than 6) trading days
Not using OL's (totally or at least partially) this year makes no sense
GLTA soon
Totally concur CWG
"Jamie Dimon CEO of JP
Morgan has publicly stated “I could have bid $1 and won.” Once again, the idea that the FDIC could sell
WMB (June 30, 2008 asset list attached as exhibit A) and WMBfsb (June 30, 2008 asset list attached as
exhibit B) for $1 is preposterous and there needs to be a comprehensive investigation concerning the facts
that brought WMI into Your Honor’s court.."
http://www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229110207000000000002.pdf
GLTA soon
Hi Trade
here is a link to that info
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=73851131
Familiar?
Also, much.faster´s input in this link
http://finance.yahoo.com/mbview/threadview/?&bn=e22bfbdd-fccd-3365-8bb3-5feac81ed75a&tid=1351359422104-a821f972-2ea3-4288-9aeb-89212a5f3248&mid=00004b000000000000000000000000-1c86ba47-d372-40eb-908d-9574d8e84c84
Hi Fuller,
too early to answer that question, any answer is pure speculation
Does anybody know the amount of potencial (& realistic) aditional OL's according to this PLR?
Hi Wamu,
I don´t know but in that case the parent company is supposed to have sent the docs back to the IRS because the 75 days period has expired.
Is there any way to confirm this?
On the other hand, maybe we see a mixed scenario with partial monetizacion of the OL´s this year and a use of the rest as NOL´s in the coming years?
Hi Olti
Do the 75 days start counting on 12/7/2012 (release date) or on September 6, 2012?
"Internal Revenue Service Department of the Treasury
Washington, DC 20224
Number: 201249005
Release Date: 12/7/2012
Index Number: 337.16-02, 1502.99-00,
9100.29-00
------------------------------------------------------------
-
--------------------------------
------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
Third Party Communication: None
Date of Communication: Not Applicable
Person To Contact:
----------------------------, ID No. --------------
----------------------------------------------------
Telephone Number:
---------------------
Refer Reply To:
CC:CORP:B06
PLR-121964-12
Date:
September 6, 2012"
Thanks in advance
Hi Voodoo
From Rankia Board
http://www.rankia.com/respuestas/1545918/fotos/86208
I think I got it,
Thanks so much BKshadow
Hi Bkshadow,
Do you mean
If used as NOL for the current year, the 8,37 Billion need no proration and equal to a net tax advantage of (8,37*0,35) 2,92 billion?
If used as carryforward NOL, then the 8,37 Billion need proration, after which become 5,96 Billion and a net tax advantage of (5,96*0,35) 2,086 Billion?
thanks in advance
GLTA
thanks for your input, appreciated
Thanks Royal, hopefully we are correct about this
Anyway Catz´s input has been for me (all these years) and still will be really very appreciated
Hi Catz
The following lines are probably the most important, concrete, verificable and official information we have had since all this mess started 4 years ago.
From 10 Q, see page 16
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/933136/000119312512344418/d392232dex995.htm
On March 19, 2012, WMIHC emerged from bankruptcy. Prior to emergence, WMI abandoned the stock of WMB, thereby generating a worthless stock deduction of approximately $8.37 billion which gives rise to an NOL for the current year. Under Section 382 of the Internal Revenue Code, and based on our analysis, we believe that the Company experienced an “ownership change” (generally defined as a greater than 50 percent change (by value) in our equity ownership over a three-year period) on March 19, 2012, and our ability to use our pre-change of control NOLs and other pre-change tax attributes against our post-change income was limited. The Section 382 limitation is applied annually so as to limit the use of our pre-change NOLs to an amount that generally equals the value of our stock immediately before the ownership change multiplied by a designated federal long-term tax-exempt rate. Due to applicable limitations under IRC Section 382 and a reduction of tax attributes due to cancellation of indebtedness, a portion of these NOLs were limited and will expire unused. We believe the total available and utilizable NOL carry forward at March 19, 2012 is expected to be approximately $5.96 billion. These NOLs will begin to expire in 2030. The Company’s ability to utilize the NOLs or realize any benefits related to the NOLs is subject to a number of risks.
Let´s see a few words from that paragraph
“worthless stock deduction of approximately $8.37 billion ” …
I think that we ( as a company or corporation) had stock in WMBank, and before the abandonment, that stock's value was X.
Then when it became worthless we abandoned it and we had a stock loss of X (that loss will be ordinary loss or not (OL or not) depending on the law and on the IRS) which generates a worthless stock deduction of 0,35X ( being the deduction a net tax advantage)
I think that in our case the worthless stock deduction was 8,37 Billion and the amount of stock abandoned was 23,914 Billion, I mean the loss we had abandoning the stock was 23,914 Billion and the deduction ( it generated) was 23,914*0,35 = 8,37 Billion ( being the deduction a net tax advantage)
I also think that in our case ( according to the law and the IRS) the loss (and also the deduction and the net tax advantage) was ordinary, which is paramount for the potential buyer because it can be used to compensate ordinary ( and not specific) gains
“……which gives rise to an NOL for the current year” …
different to
“We believe the total available and utilizable NOL carry forward at March 19, 2012 is expected to be approximately $5.96 billion”…
Catz, do you think the 8,37 Billion deduction are a net tax advantage?
Are the 5,96 Billion (NOL carry forward ) another (and different) tax advantage we have to add to the 8,37 Billion (NOL for the current year)?
Is the net tax advantage from the 5,96 Billion (5,96 * 0,35) 2,086 Billion?
Is our total net tax advantage 8,37 Billion + 2,086 Billion, this is 10,456 Billion?
Your imput would be really very appreciated,
Thanks in advance
Hard, maybe you are right, we will know in a few weeks...
Anyway if that is the case we won´t have to refuse a (first) low offer and wait for the good one.... tough decision
Thanks for your input
Hi slob
The real value of our shares (in the case of a net tax advantage monetizacion before 12/31/2012) is paramount to calculate the surrender price of our shares. Also, the surrender price must consider the real value (in this not sure but probable merger/adquisition/buyout scenario)
I mean the 5.96 Billion net tax advantage brings a different surrender price (that a net 2 Billion tax advantage would bring)
Does it make sense?