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“There can be no guarantee that the Company will be successful in securing an acceptable offer in connection with the liquidation of its assets. Moreover, if an acceptable offer is received, the liquidation of the Company's assets will almost certainly result in no residual value for non-secured creditors and equity investors."
-Bioamber
Doesn’t get more definitive than that. This is certainly not a PR from a company planning a behind the scenes secret transaction.
That and the whole documented restructure (fail)/board resign/employees fired/restructure (liquidation)/suspension/deletion/revocation with nothing heard since thing.
It has been liquidated. I.e., nothing of value remains. Is that deniable?
Safe alright- just as long as you never want to exchange them for money.
Restructure is complete. That what the closing of the bankruptcy means.
Which of the items do you have a problem with?
There is a ton of information available to make money in this market. Internet posters have absolutely nothing to do with whether someone is making or losing money.
Yes it’s bad losing a couple hundred million. For shareholders at least.
Maybe it’ll be a good thing for the group that picked up the assets.
Do you believe the drop is the last 2 days of news or the start of the offering? I sort of expected a few weeks rise and then the drop. The way this is going things are going to get extremely challenging.
The comp you have provided at the bottom is an appropriate one. That company still has employees/reps and is still trading albeit at 6 cents despite their declaration of worthlessness similar to what happened here when the recap failed.
Complex or not, it closed. And the results posted.
Today's numbers won't be causing any short squeeze. It is going to take a surprise announcement.
Do you accept that there may be justification for a 3X sales multiple, given that thats actually what it is?
If so, great, but the poster was saying there was no evidence to support anything other than 10X, which is laughably not correct.
What? There is ONLY proof that it is 3.2X by the market at this time. Facts are facts.
It is literally the truth that the market is currently ascribing a value to this company of ~38M on some 12M of sales, or a 3something multiple.
It is not a higher multiple because the company has not exhibited the kinds of attributes that other companies in the space have that have gotten higher multiples, namely as the prior poster has mentioned, a totally different revenue growth profile and operating losses that do not exceed revenues.
Seems to be a common mistake here to disconnect the theoretical vs market value. Theory meets market every trading minute of every trading day. This company trades at 3something times sales.
I have to assume that 1) this rare preliminary result was released as it was expected to help the SP before the offering and 2) they expect the offering to be closed before mid August when the official results come out.
2 judges already did. Approved and Monitor discharged.
It was while it lasted. All documented, of course.
Question: why did you believe the court when it was noted that the restructuring was noted but then almost nothing else presented to and approved by the court?
He’s talking about taxes, which have not been paid and is why charter was eventually revoked.
Court is over as the case was closed and the Monitor discharged. The secured creditors received payment of all remaining sums so there is no money remaining to pay anything.
No one will be buying shares in a liquidated company. If the shares had any value it wouldn’t have been liquidated.
You might as well request finding a transaction where all the contracts were signed in green ink. Unless you’re saying confidentiality provisions blocked the presentation of an additional transaction to an affected investing public, however, organizers were able to “signal” to astute investors through their legal nomenclature.
Seriously- they were either able to speak of the phantom deal, or they weren’t. Assuming they weren’t (because they didn’t), then definitionally anything you might suggest is a clue is simply a convenience or a coincidence.
So just keep soldiering on with the LCY bought the company gambit despite their legal letter begging “to whom it may concern” to give up on that notion? I mean seriously isn’t that the one company in all of the world that MUST be ruled out?
It’s not a good faith argument to continue to float the idea that LCY purchased any shares. They have said formally in a legal writing that they did not. That’s on top of the Monitor report including the fully executed unredacted APA approved by the judge.
It’s crazy enough that sometimes I don’t buy it’s real. I think for some it is and less so for others.
Back to the bankruptcy fraud theory eh? And this time with the SEC no less.
I am positive nothing will be announced this week. How’s that for confident. Any takers?
What are you talking about? Its not the SEC's role to inform the public on the outcome, that was the Monitor's role, and it is now over. The SEC does not communicate terms of deals reached outside of the Monitor (and nothing would ever be done outside of the Monitor) through its administrative database functions.
Nothing to see.
Correct.
Company sold for 4.3 million dollars
No. The assets of the company sold for 4.3M. The Monitor was very specific on this part.
and 2 years later there is all sorts of new documentation with BioAmber still involved.
Bioamber doesn't even have a charter anymore. There is no new documentation. Search engines and entries on patent websites is not "documentation".
I know for a fact that what ever has happened already happened and nothing we have been typing here for years is going to change the outcome.
Yep. Its all been documented, per law.
The best part is 4.3 was just part of the whole.
No. I don't know how this can still be believed. There was a deposit paid on the 4.3M. You are saying there was a deposit on the deposit with no full amount ever stated, anywhere.
The facts will set us all free. Remember this was a very complicated restructuring infact so complex we are all still awaiting the outcome.
The complex part has been exaggerated. Yes it was multiple companies in multiple countries. Yes there were 2 processes (first the recap attempt and then the liquidation). And yes there was the shareholder confusion and lawsuits, etc. But at the end of the day it was a single disappointing asset purchase. (As stated, per law).
I trust they don’t break deals on their search platform.
Oh, and I’m positive nothing will be announced this week. Or ever.
Love to have someone in the know on all this digging commit to a time or a name. They sure seem to know a lot for not knowing anything.
Because it’s not in bankruptcy anymore? Because it’s closed and over?
What’s your explanation- confidentiality around a “second transaction” strictly observed except for the SEC breaking clues on its search engine?
The thing is, the announcement of a corporate action always PRECEDES the type of odd clues that the denial crew keep rehashing. Can you imagine if it was possible or allowable for a public company to get bought, not announce it, but have the information slowly disseminated on SEC search platforms? The market would be total chaos. Everyone would be hunting on these sites trying to dig up clues. I
The game is over. Just because the scoreboard has been shut off and the cleaning crew has come onto the field- it does NOT mean that someone “behind the scenes” has determined there is going to be a 5th quarter.
I promise no “news” this week.
Or any other week.
It occurred to me that this would help some accept the reality here, but then I realized that the APA closed more than 20 months ago and the ticker was deleted some 8 months ago and some still are in denial and likely nothing will resolve that.
Anyone paying attention closed their position pre bankruptcy because this hovered at a few pennies for a while, and if you shorted and rode it to a few pennies there was no motivation to worry about those pennies because you had basically maxed out the short position potential already. I recall there was only a few thousand dollars in short interest when this got yanked.
I was surfing around and found an article that actually indicated the IRS would have strongly preferred anyone short to pay taxes on their profits on their 2018 tax return because that was the year the stock became technically worthless.
LCY promised that they haven’t and won’t pay any more than the stated transaction, unfortunately.
Some reasonable questions but some problematic conclusions.
Can these shares be sold right after purchase?
Yes
If not, how long would the restriction period be?
N/A
Are the shares offered to the public?
the public can buy shares in the company any time
Are those that the shares are likely to be offered to hold for long periods, or short stocks?
What? The incentive to buy is the discount to market, so I'd expect short term arbitrage plays. Anyone who wants to hold longer can do so every day in the market.
What kind of SP discount is likely to be offered?
Important question. I do not know.
What will the SP be prior to the discount.
Important question. I have said I think there is appreciation available prior to the offering. There may be more from the current price.
Do the shares still have to be offered if VERB decides to hold off?
No, but they would need to raise money at some point.
So many variables, too little information to say this is a bad thing.
Its not about good or bad. Was the uplist offering good or bad? It was predictable though.
My opinion is that the offering will have a negligible dilution effect and if offered, the SP will be considerably higher than the current SP since we know there is a lot of good news yet to be PR'ed.
This is the questionable part for its blind optimism. There is no way the dilution can be negligible at such a large proportion to the market cap. Its true the price can rise for many reasons, but beware the theory of "good news yet to be PR'ed".
Even with the discount and dilution? What would be the driver of that appreciation?
As long as the theories are floated I’m sure there will be someone to remind they are false.
Neither of us has any idea the composition and hold horizon of current investors and investors for the offering. I’m inclined to disagree with you actually.
And I’ve stated my opinion that the price will rise as traders see an opportunity and then will fall from the discount and dilution.
OK, but that is sort of my point. There are no market tricks. There is only performance. There is often a mentioning of MMs, short sellers, I guess "other" investors, even the previous investment bank (AGP) to blame. And its all pointless, as any "trick" or malfeasance undertaken to somehow reduce the price artificially would be undone the second it was not applied as the market corrects.
There is only performance here, good or bad.
I can't think of anything that suggests its not over. Certainly nothing from the company for more than 1.5 years.
I just want to know how they do this.
I’d love a lower than market price of anything as by definition I’d be in the money.