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Agreed. Some positive vibe occured somwwhere.
Absolutely foot to the metal is required, and understanding what it is in the ISRG culture that is so disliked by customers and emloyees; Titan has a chance not to repeat that.
In the meantime I'd love to get an occassional hint of how hard Titan is working, but that's not going to be coming from them.
If that is true, it seems mighty early to be putting them out there. I'm not in sales, so I don't know how far in advance a sales team can be assembled, and paid, before a product launches. Also, hiring someone too early invites the state secrets to get lost if someone defects.
I remember mailing stacks of resume envelopes to potential employers, but since today it can be updated and done in a keypress, people hoping to work for Titan can probably afford to wait, unless these are for "higher level" sales positions. Or from ISRG employees that are not cutting it at ISRG and want out.
Any word on the street about this?
Very interesting, and a true robot, meaning that it can work autonomously and learn. SPORT is not; neither is daVinci.
Meant almost exclusively for tele-surgery.
Academic project and open source.
I wish them well; that is good work they are doing. That is the future for robotic surgery, even if Raven is not the platform. Possible commercialization? Not for a decade. Can you imagine FDA hurdles to allow autonomous surgery, even if it is directed by a surgeon. FDA will need to form a whole new section just for autonomous robotics.
There are a number of academic projects like this all over the world, many in Europe, and sometimes partly financed by the state.
Titan would do well to study features of them. For example, Raven obviously is being designed to do automated suturing.
So, can Titan produce and market before ISRG creates their SPORT-like system? They have the talent, money, infrastructure and pre-existing paths to approval.
Wristed-arms work too; proven.
Titan should be worried, and trying to build up their cash for the big pushes required between NOW and 2 years.
Point mentioned in the article ten effector instruments, but that a stapler will not be one of them at this time. I ask the surgeons here how important that current omission will be. Of course the last video just shows a staple (clip) appearing out of nowhere on the porcine operation.
Obviously for now, the current SPORT system will need to be tested/trialed using an auxiliary non-Titan stapler, via another port. Thus, MIS but not yet true singe port surgery.
I have an idea for Titan, if it hasn't been thought of already:
Make one of the effectors a staple grab/load and apply system. That is, a cartridge of staples/clips is introduced into the surgical field via another port. The Titan staple effector is designed to load a staple/clip from the cartridge, then apply as needed. I realize this is not a simple engineering problem, and I hope they are working on it already, or looking at a commercial system (Cardica?) that can fit through the SPORT lumen.
Again for the surgeons, are there stapleng systems out there that work like that, meaning the reload is in the surgical field? Issues would be dropped or misloaded staples.
Point, this article is very informative and helpful. Really, Titan should be GD greatful that they have an investor willing to put together such quality material. They owe you a lot; given that their PR/IR stinks.
I was pleased to see that many things I discussed in this board were addressed, along with other good posters.
Now on to Staplers...
Good points.
So far, haven't been able to find any competing systems (for general surgery) that are as far along as Titan. And North American made to boot.
Just an interesting aside given the mention of a new hire for Titan. ISRG is currently advertising for 172 positions (wordwide).
https://intuitive.taleo.net/careersection/2/jobsearch.ftl?lang=en
I agree with HC on this one point in particular: they will need more cash to get the product finalized, tested, approved, and out the door. PPS can't languish at $1-2 over the next year without endangering the "big push"
I'm continually surprised by the apparent lack of market interest in this sector, overall.
If you want to invest in surgical robotics at all, it is pretty much ISRG or Titan for general indications. It would seem that based on the recent Tranenterix pop, the only buying pressure in this sector comes when full regulatory acceptance is at hand. Makes sense really.
Not the same as Pharma, which captures a lot more market interest long before trials.
My impression is that the new patent is somewhat generic, meaning that it has applicability to any effector system offering multiple degrees of freedom motion using manual control. I do think that it was developed with the intention of use with highly articulated effectors, like the snake arm, rather than minimally-wristed types like daVinci.
What is your problem? You went from being informative to bothersome.
Do you have a point to make? If not, shut up.
Good find! I do think this is important. It seems to be about a hand controller unit concept only, that it would be generic, not specifically part of the SPORT platform (2 snake arms and all that). That is, any robotic system could utilize it, as long as that system feeds it sensing data.
Did not read it in detail, but a Patent is way better than a patent application. I don't know anything about patents along similar lines but there must be something in this that is quite novel. Glad Titan has it.
I was under the impression that doing a prostate removal robotically requires more access points than one. DaVinci requires several. Maybe one of our surgeons on the board can comment.
No buzz, info, or inkling that anyone North America or European-based will be ready with a similar robotic surgical product within the next year or two. That's my educated opinion but not to say I'd bet on it. Except ISRG, of course; they are free to do whatever they like. Just like MicroSoft is still able to do and has done for 30 years.
So, Titan remains the best (and only, for now!!) bet for the 2nd wave. They should be a major acquisition target. They should also be on the radar on a real exchange and selling at more than $1-$2 bucks, which is ridiculous. Management is solely responsible for that and it makes no sense to most of the posters on this board.
If they pop over $1.80 on any good news in the near future I will be sorely tempted to sell most of my shares, break even, and sleep better. They are a clown show sitting on a goldmine of realizable and good technology. I can't trust them (JH) to not make major gaffes. His lack of interest in growing and utilizing public investment is obvious. He's an overaged corporation man and NEVER should have been put in charge of a high-tech startup.
I suspect the SAB docs see it the same way.
Contacts, perceived or real, that the people who hired him thought he had, or really does.
But dropping him isn't easy either. Has its own share of risk, cost, disruption.
But this guy, if he was a CEO REALLY INTO this enterprise, would be LIVING in an apartment down the road from Ximedica or wherever the command center for Titan is. SPORT should and can be the 2nd wave of the commercial surgical robotic invasion. He is no Steve Jobs. Pops McHayseed is what I see.
Hope I'm wrong.
Quite possible that some of the dissonance in JH's statements about transparency, engineering verification, timelines, etc., are simply because he doesn't know what the hell is going on. I still feel like I got a good read on him from that one simple video about changing to the new exchange. Long time Corporation guy: doesn't feel pressure, insulated from small startup world, no need for haste, not necessarily too bright, lines up like clockwork for the gravy. Suits and handshakes. I don't think his heart is in this project, honestly, for whatever that is worth. At his age, he has lost sense of market/cultural dynamics, PR saavy, passion for a technology. That is only natural.
Good points.
Software tweaking for medical device development, especially for something as critical as hand-to-effector control, is very costly in terms of time and money. The primary reason for that is documentation control/management, testing (which needs to always be extensive), and compliance. All these are regulated and scrutinized in the approval process. I'm glad that Ximedica would be dealing with this.
However, Titan needs to make sure it has the bucks to pay for what additional tweaking is done, especially in late stages. Assuming a constant burn rate is not realistic.
The read from the market is a complete f*ing yawn in regards to Titan. It is almost impossible to believe the lack of interest or confidence. The market has lost any idea of them being the next big robotics player; simply GONE.
When I'm optimistic I say the market lack-of-interest doesn't matter, as long as they are still busting ass to produce. Can't be too sure of that though without info.
Duke, I agree with you completely, nice opinion.
Not that it does away with some nagging questions I have as one of the medical guy camp.
Nothing on the horizon that anyone has detected even close to where Titan is at, even with the delay for more indications. Discount TRXC because I also believe it is a dead end. So, as always, only ISRG is a player at this time, for general surgery (not ortho and highly specialized systems like Maazor).
Now consider: Lots of articles trumpeting surgical robotics as a huge market. Only one player and Titan alone in the wings.
WHY AREN'T INVESTORS LOOKING FOR THE NEXT BIG MEDICAL ENTRY INTO SURGICAL ROBOTICS INVESTING?
WHO CAN BELIEVE $1.20 pps, even with a 1.5 year timeline?
I just can't believe the lack of interest in this company. Is it only the exchange they are on that puts them so far out in left field that intelligent money can't see the potential. Remember, even before the delay announcement, we weren't exactly seeing a run up in pps. (I consider the improvement from the $0.40 low to $2.50 as common sense, and nothing to be exited about, unless one bought in at the low)
Golf, I'm just searching for what else could blindside Titan in the next 1.5 years. I agree I've seen nothing yet that appears anywhere near along as SPORT, or with the right ingredients that SPORT seems to have.
That being said, realize that ISRG has the muscle to finance or buy smaller companies, with ideas competitive to SPORT. We would be fools to think they aren't thinking along the same lines as the SPORT-like platform. Whatever Titan has got going for it, time is not one of those things. Delay is a liability, period. So is dwindling funding for the end stretch.
Who is AVRA?
http://www.avrasurgicalrobotics.com
I can't figure them out. Seem to be a NYC clearinghouse/advocate for medical robotics, ISRG pumping, and their own "platform", for which I can't find any good information.
If the SPORT technology is good and does the job, we should have a viable product. I didn't say a revolution in MIS "robotic" surgery, I said a viable product. A lot needs to go together: optics, surgeon controlability, software, ease of learning, and no fatal flaws like shortouts in the bovie, or unexpected infection control issues.
But I'd feel better with a shortened timeline and more money in reserve.
Agree with your sarcasm; Titan doesn't give a sh*t about stock pps support. That being said, all the real fundamentals, ie. engineering, funding, brains, and a market, are unchanged. I appreciated your previous technical call(s) on price, but what are you harping about? Obviously your predictive powers haven't stopped you from being in the red for now.
Good site to snoop for "nuggets" about surgical robotics.
TITAN better have their ass in gear by now.
http://surgrob.blogspot.com/
SPORT is probably capable of doing this surgery right now:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/286700.php
Watch the video too.
Nice find. As I've also said, thank god we've got Ximedica working for/with us.
Now we've also got to understand is that companies PAY Ximedica for services. I'm sure Ximedica wants good outcomes to help foster new business, and sustainable products so that they can continue offering their services. My guess is that on the mechanical/programming/robotics side, Titan is Ximedica's sexiest project. But Ximedica won't go under if Titan runs out of cash, or screws up somehow in this new long long drive to the marketplace.
I'd be happier if Titan had a SHITLOAD of cash to throw at Ximedica to really push them to do their utmost. Perhaps invite Ximedica into moving into some sort of partnership.
In other words, Titan needs Ximedica; Ximedica doesn't need Titan. I hope our management understands that and their heads don't get too big. Ximedica, stronger now due to the new SV Life Sciences deal, can afford to treat Titan with a bit less big-client deference than before. They may ask for more money and I hope Titan has it if needed.
It is assuredly inferior on paper, as long as SPORTS' hand-to-effector control is good. daVinci proved that fly-by-wire technology works in surgery, using wristed motion. Titan will have to prove at least that level of control with snake-like articulation. Still remains to be seen by us investors because the videos haven't shown enough of the control at the effectors and what the surgeon needs to be doing in terms of their hands to produce it. I'm quite hopeful that SPORT will prove up to the task because of the IREP technology.
As I've said before, I can not believe that Surgibot will have any advantage in terms of :haning natural haptics". That's a marketing fable that I predict will go nowhere quite soon. The physical feedback for the surgeon is unlikely to be strong enough through its mechanisms. It is probably more of a mental advantage of directly seeing the results of your hand motions. If SPORT articulation is more precise than Surgibot is capable of, SPORT will be at an advantage even without haptics.
Thanks. I read Lynch's popular book(s) on personal finance ages ago, but not the one you mention. Hope you're right. I'll take your physician's read on JH's voice and demeanor too.
I'd rather feel positive about Titan's long term chances.
Posi, my father had surgery for diverticulitus back in the early 1970's after a couple years of painful attacks in his early 40's. I was about 12 yo and remember being very scared for him. He recovered completely, and he never had another problem with it.
I'm sure they've gotten much better since then too, with both non-surgical and surgical treatments. It's a curable condition.
Keep your chin up for your daughter.
Too disruptive to say goodbye to JH right now. I think all the others know that.
That video of JH when they went to the new exchange just haunts me. Zero energy. Looked scripted. And the comment to DukeSilver that he was made to go to an exposition, and didn't have anything to present! Well then don't go, or have something to present!
This is a guy who worked for a corporation so big, it would take it a decade to go down the tubes. I can not believe he knows the potential Titan has, and the potential for failure.
Who is his right hand man for everyday decisions? Anyone know?
Yes, the Paige raise pisses me off too. She is likely making more than most of the 1st class engineers and programmers from Ximedica working for them.
I agree that it gives the appearance of amateur hour. But, one danger is that you bring in some new, dynamic CEO, who has NOTHING TRULY VESTED with the company or technology, and they just pillage the place for everything they can take it for. I don't think JH has the energy or "modern sensibilities" to run this ship much further, but replacing him with a some slick willy is not good either.
Thanks.
Sure as hell hope that survey becomes required reading and discussion for all Titan employees, from the top on down through Bertner and Ximedica. Insight into the mind of the "adversary".
Dak, honestly, I'd fedex a copy directly to JH and crew because I'm old enough to know not to assume anything.
Brilliant post. Perfect assessment of Surgibot.
Agree with you 100%. When it comes time for a good SPORT video, I hope Titan doesn't cheap-out.
When it comes to investor interest and confidence, presentation does matter.
That's all I can think it is attributable to, the Transenterix big jump.
Sure like to see that same news blurb for SPORT, real soon.
Well expressed opinion.
My mind just keeps coming back to Hargrove and Fowler's ages. These guys are sucesses already; they don't need 5-10 more years of headaches trying to turning Titan into another ISRG (experiencing every growing pain and battle). I said it from my first post on this board. ISRG broke the barrier, created the market, and will remain the powerhouse, now especially if they start going small platform. I don't think these guys have the energy for those battles, or even want them. Hell, they are one major health issue from being effectively retired.
I'd say they get more personal satisfaction by getting this baby "on the shelves" and being used. They make a fortune for their heirs to boot. My guess is that Paige's raise also came with a long-term contract too. Insurance in case Hargrove leaves the picture after a buyout.
I'd say they will be more and more happy to sell with every passing month. They certainly could be positioning for that now. They owe us retail investors nothing, in terms of what we would rather have them do.
Good points and I fully agree.