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The technology may be new but the laws of physics have been around a while and they still apply. Unless the wanderport heater is able to create energy out of nothing it still needs to overcome the same obstacles any other heater does, like losses to the outside, efficiency of heat transfer, electrical resistance, etc. Energy going in will always be equal to energy coming out (one way or another and at various times), no matter how new the technology. It's just a matter of making sure as much of it as possible comes out as hot water straight away, not losses to the outside and/or hot water with a delay. Any heater, heat pump etc can be treated as a black box as far as efficiency goes, where the internal components are irrelevant, all that matters is what goes in and what comes out as useful temperature change done by the device. And in this case how immediate the response is too.
Also, I agree that speculation is undesirable and would love to talk about actual released numbers, but unfortunately as far as the device itself goes that is all we have at the moment. And there are cases where it is possible to prove that an existing device (traditional tankless heater in this case) is efficient enough to where it is not physically possible for a new device to be significantly better, without knowing anything at all about the technology of the new device. I'm not saying that is the case here. And even if it was, there can still be many advantages to our device, like price, longevity, size, less scaling etc etc.
Yes, exactly, heat transfer rate! Especially for when small amounts of hot water are needed an existing system would need to get very hot very fast because it's transfer rate is poor. That would draw more power than a system that only does the minimum necessary. And once water is not needed anymore a lot of that heat would still be there in the elements. For longer uses I would guess the differences would be smaller since once a traditional system gets warmed up whatever heat is there will ultimately get transferred to the water at some point. And the elements may even switch off completely with a thermostat in some systems if they are hot enough for what is needed, which the magnetron would not be able to do. I would assume other losses, like heat to the environment through the enclosure and the resistance of the components would be similar to existing systems.
Anyway, at this point we will know soon enough what the deal is. And i don't think there needs to be a huge improvement in the bottom line cost of ownership and operation (which is really what matters in the end the most) for this thing to be a success. The market is huge, even if only considering home water heaters and there are so many other uses.
There are really two types of efficiency. One is how well you use to juice you do draw to heat the water and the other is how much juice you need to draw in the first place in order to achieve the same temperature increase. Existing electric heaters may well be close to 99% efficient as far as using the electricity they draw to heat water. And in that area it obviously would be very hard to improve. There can technically be no improvement really.
But there could be an improvement in how much energy is drawn in the first place and this would be mainly due to the way the energy is transfered from the device to the water. The heating elements in a traditional heater may have to get far far hotter than the water itself just because they don't come in contact with all the water at once, just a small layer of molecules. The magnetron will transfer energy directly to the entire mass of the water which might make it less wasteful. And once you switch the water off you are left with some very hot heating elements that have energy in them never used at the tap as hot water.
I guess using an electric oven vs a microwave to heat a gallon of water by a number of degrees is a fairly good example. They both transfer 99% of the energy they draw into heat but I'm fairly sure the oven will use more watts hour at the end and also take longer.
Maybe I am wrong as to the details but there definitely has to be some fundamental reason why transferring the energy as microwaves is better than through contact, otherwise there would be no reason at all to bother developing a microwave heater. Well other than some minor advantages like less corrosion. And they would know that.
I think the metal enclosure is on the list of things being "procured", they're not making it, it should be done by now, design-wise at least.
Also, I'm not sure who "granted and approved" the procurement. Robert? It's not like they have a large board of directors. And it seems like buying the necessary parts, whether for a prototype or production is a given, should not really be news.
They want to "evaluate the function" of the point of use before the point of entry gets produced... Does that mean they will test a point of use prototype or put it in full production? If in full production presumably it was already tested before that so they have their data for the point of entry.
Another thing left unclear is what will happen in April. Will the point of use be in full production (probably not on sale yet) or just the prototype will be ready?
I really wish they will come up with a better, more clear, PR as to where things are. It's not their fault people pushed for a PR (I was one of them) and not their fault they can't release IP type things but still, they could have been a lot more clear, I think most of us could have done a better job of explaining things.
Yeah I think that's at least part of it. If they had it prepared for a long time they would have released at market open like always. So I suppose that means they don't have the prototype completed and they were waiting to get all the parts, put it all together and then release a proper PR in a week or two. Maybe with specs and stuff.
On one had it's nice they released some info on progress but on the other hand the PR is a little confusing as to what stage the prototype is actually in. At least we should get better news pretty soon.
I'm a little confused... On one hand I agree that just buying parts for a prototype would be cheap and not PR worthy. On the other hand if the prototype is 100% done, which it would have to be to order all the parts to exact specs, then why no details about it.
So I would say...
35% we get a PR tomorrow
60% we get one within a week from tomorrow
90% within two weeks from tomorrow
Now as to what the PR will say... I'd like to guesstimate some percentages but with WDRP... could be anything really. Prototype completion seems most likely but who knows. Either way, at least 90% chance it will be positive.
So it seems like according to a lot of posters who have spoken to IR we should get fairly big news within two weeks or so if not even this week. Most likely prototype completion. And the fact we got no significant news since the beginning of the year also seems to support this. Would you say that's accurate and what do you estimate the pps would go to in the short and medium term after the news? I would expect .1-.15 easily but then again I've been taken by surprise by plenty of sell the news cases in other stocks before...
Well, yes, I said decent PR. A prototype being ready doesn't have to mean ready for production so it's not as good as it gets but it's definitely very good. Even something intermediate, like prototype not completely ready but built and undergoing testing and tweaking would make it go up for sure.
The fact they aren't ready for production right now is not that big of a deal to most people as long as we know it will definitely happen at some point. Both small hurdles and big, show-stopper, game-over type problems can cause the delays we've been seeing. But at the end of the day it's very important to investors to know which one they're dealing with. So even a PR saying "yeah we need longer but here is the problem and we're sure we can solve it" would be much much better than nothing at all, since they're still a small company and people don't trust it implicitly, like they would a blue chip.
With a decent PR we hit that for sure and maybe way over. Without, I don't know... Only 4 days left in March, those hoping for a PR by eom might be disappointed.
Hmm that true... But i wouldn't mind that. Even if I'm not brave enough to buy on a bad dip I still have enough if it takes off later. And I'm sure I'd buy more too, always have. Either way I hope we get news soon, the waiting is starting to get to me.
Nah, 3's too low. Don't think we'll drop much further, if at all. Too close to news. Unless someone knows something pretty bad and then there's no ground floor...
Isn't it possible that a slightly bigger sell just caused a snowball effect of stops taken out and panic selling? Or that if the price was dropped intentionally it was to buy more, not because of a dump? If someone knew something and was trying to get out there would be more than a few million sold.
Hopefully just a snowball effect, stops being taken out... Either way they'd better come up with something, either progress or a reason for the delays, pretty soon.
50k more at 0350. F it, all or nothing... Hope I'm not wrong.
I actually agree with that... Updates on where exactly the development is at (regardless on how long it takes) would go a very long way towards building confidence in the stock and would not give away any intellectual property. If there are problems that need to be overcome with the prototype we'll all wait, no problem, but just let us know. New contracts and manufacturing and OTC reporting and all that is not even that important right now, it's all about the product. If they tell us they have it, or almost have it, all else will follow no problem. If they don't, the pps will fall pretty badly even when maybe everything is in place and going great, just maybe a bit delayed.
Sure hope you're right!
I would have guessed more like 055. If it drops under 5 again I'm getting more. All or nothing at this point.
Can't come soon enough... We really deserve some news on that product. These drops won't work wonders on investor confidence. Although for those with a strong stomach could be a great flipping opportunity. Anybody care to guess what it closes at today?
I got 50k at 0450 too... but obviously it keeps dropping. Maybe someone knows something?
About 10-15%. About 80% that we get another PR before the end of the month. About 20% that it's before the end of the week...
Thursday would make sense. Maybe Friday too... Not right after this one so people have a little time to DD but not too far away so they don't lose interest.
I love this news. For the first time they're saying in writing that they basically have something big coming. And yeah, it is a good strategy to warm things up before coming up with the big stuff. Things will get interesting pretty soon, can't wait.
I don't disagree. I never sold a single share and I definitely believe we'll be very happy we're in this thing in the long run. That said, people seem to think that March is when things will really take off, with a bunch of PRs along the lines of "ready for production". I was just saying I think it will take longer, they may announce the first completed prototype at best, maybe another letter of intent etc. And the emails today seem to support that. If we all get over-excited about March the pps might take an unnecessary dive when the things take longer than hoped.
Current expectations are optimistic given the pace at which the company has done things until now. I'd be super happy if they had any kind of working prototype, probably not production, by the end of the month. It's a small company, not a lot of experience and not a lot of resources available and the product, while not hugely complicated, is the first of it's kind and not very simple either. If we're perfectly honest they could have sent that email two months ago and it would have been true then too. So if they do come up with a PR in March it will not be a bomb one, like ready for production etc.
400 million shares could be a big problem... At least if you look at the worst case scenario. It would obviously make no sense for Robert to dump it all on the market and run the pps into the ground. But if he decides to sell as much as possible (to retire, invest in other projects etc) while keeping the price at lets say 10c or so he still gets 40 million, not a bad chunk of change. Most of us however will agree we would like the pps to go way way further than that. And it def could and will with only 200 mil shares out there. I guess time will tell.
That's cool and crazy good value. But I'd still take a car for that money. And I'm pretty sure I will :)
Goodbye 4.4c, hello 10+c. Go WDRP.
Was sure I would not buy more but I'm really itching to, at least for the short term.
True. Could be up to a month to the next PR. But after all we've waited another couple of extra weeks is nothing. And at this point, after all the silence, it's either going way up with good news or way down on bad/no news. There aren't a whole lot of reasons for delays anymore at this point, if they have something that works they have to come out with it. Exciting stuff, can't wait.
That sounds good. "concise and organized information deployment" is exactly what we need. I wonder what he means by soon... a week, two months?
They sort of said/implied/hinted that they do have prototypes... Since they are working on the exchanger and did the safety checks and gave the asian factory specs... And after a full year of development I would assume they did put all the components together at some point and did pass water through it. But yeah, I suppose they never explicitly said they have a working prototype. Are you listening IR?
That is why the pps can't be any higher than it is, nobody ever saw a physical product on a table doing something. Even something that is far from finished. Without a product there is no company and no stock value at all.
That doesn't mean they aren't working on it and aren't close (or at least closer) to completion. They may well not be giving out any info on the product out of fear of losing their intellectual property. The technology is reasonably easy to "steal", not being very complex. Showing a CPU on a table doesn't give much info on the way it works, seeing a set of heater components and their shape, or talking about the development of each part, gives out a lot more info. Info which a much bigger company with more resources could use to develop their own product much faster. At least that is my guess (and hope...). Or maybe they just aren't good at communicating facts in their PRs...
Well yes, going down 50% as opposed to a steady let's say 10% climb sounds bad until you consider that it brought us down 50% from 6c as opposed to climbing steady from 1c or even .5c. I think their pumping gave us a place to fall from in the first place. You can't have a better pps than this with no product, they're trying to make the best of it I guess.
Considering how little actual game changing news they actually had these last few months I think the pps would have been a lot worse if they said nothing at all. Yes, absolutely a lot of the PRs are fluff but maybe it's the lesser of two evils... I for one would not have bought as much if they kept quiet for months at a time. Even right now a PR would be nice, even if it's not huge news, as long as it gives any information at all on the state of the prototype.
Any timeline for finalizing it mentioned at all? As long as they're confident I'm willing to wait but it would be good to know...
Yeah, if not end of this week then end of next week we should have a PR, given what's been going on and when they had the last one.
Nobody selling at the bid (or at all...), nice. With some news on the prototype we should move pretty good.
I hear crickets...
The day a stellar PR comes out current investors will buy a little more (I might). There will be a little more money coming in from the sidelines from people waiting. There will be hardly any selling since we are still pretty far from making consistent revenues. Overall we might not even get over 10c but it will be more than enough to show up on a bunch of stock screeners. Then as more people come in it will create a snowball effect. It will be slower than if they keep everyone on the edge of their seats, yes, but it's also safer in case more delays or problems come up and we avoid a big sell-off by all the day traders who wanted profits RIGHT NOW...
And as far as pumping I think they've done a fairly good job of keeping interest up, considering in the past year not a huge amount of stuff has happened. Many PRs have been on the fluffy side as it is...
That said, I do agree we need to keep them honest as far as the development goes and make sure Robert doesn't get sidetracked by other projects. And yes, more info in the PRs about the product would be great but maybe at this stage they don't really have great results yet so that may hurt more than help...
Don't WANT to wait, just wouldn't mind an extra couple of months that much if this thing goes to 50c or so. Anyway, there isn't all that much we can do, I doubt we can scare them into pumping it so our shares go up.
Assuming the product is as good as we are hoping and production and sales start I really don't think the pps will have any trouble going up. Yes, of course it will take longer and the next big PR won't cause nearly as big a pop as it would if things were drummed up before it comes. But so what, in the long run any investor that comes across a company with a great product already making money and a pps of a few cents will get in. And as more people get in we will show up on more and more radars. May take a little longer but it will happen. All depends on the product.