Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Bravo deekshant, simply magnificent post
Quote
"Only a task force such as the one created who had the powers to be could have unraveled the truth"
You sound very familiar to the cause
after the 75% 25% split, as per Edgar Sargent's email the math is
"From: Edgar G. Sargent [mailto:esargent@SusmanGodfrey.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:36 PM
Subject: RE: Wamu
Here's information I just received from Alvarez showing conversion ratios:
142,500,000 (75% of 190,000,000) are distributed to holders of preferred securities as well as claims subordinated to the level of preferred. Total disputed claims at the preferred level are $106,514,585.09. For those claims, 2,109,051 shares are reserved. The remaining 140,390,949 are distributed evenly by liquidation preference across the $7.5 billion of preferred shares. However, while the TPS are denominated in 1,000s, the Series K has a face amount per share of $25.
For the TPS, 3,729,658.260 shares provided releases and will receive 73,849,406 shares or 19.80058 new shares per old share. This share count is after giving effect to the mandatory exchange.
For Series R, 2,906,421 shares provided releases and will receive 57,548,829 or 19.8005825 new shares per old share.
For Series K, 18,166,565 shares provided releases and will receive 8,992,714 shares or 0.4950146 new shares per old share.
For the common shareholders, they are receiving 47,500,000 shares of which 4,165,750 shares go to the Dime Warrant holders, 2,631,933 shares are reserved for disputed equity claims, 693,806 shares will be distributed to Principal Financial on account of their claims and existing common will get 40,008,511 shares. For each share of existing common granting releases in the total amount of 1,194,340,178 shares, they will receive 0.03349842 shares.
Because no fractional shares are being issued, the percentages for each holder may vary due to rounding. I’m not sure what you are using this information for, but that’s an important point for holders.
Hope this gets you what you need. I'm out until tomorrow so if you have any follow up I will probably respond then.
Edgar
If we had a total of $7,500,000,000 Face Value in Preferred ($4,000,000,000 REITs + $3,000,000,000 WAMPQ/Series R + $500,000,000 WAMKQ/Series K) and according to Edgar
$3,729,658,260 REITs granted releases; so $270,341,740 {$4,000,000,000 - $3,729,658,260} did not grant releases
$2,906,421,000 WAMPQ/Series R granted releases; so $93,579,000 {$3,000,000,000 - $2,906,421,000} did not grant releases
$454,164,125 {18,166,565*25} WAMKQ/Series K granted releases; so $45,835,875 {$500,000,000 - $454,164,125} did not grant the releases.
So according to Edgar $270,341,740 REITs + $93,579,000 WAMPQ/Series R + $45,835,875 WAMKQ/Series K
so $409,756,615 did not grant releases.
But then as per (page 291 of 389) http://www.kccllc.net/documents/0812229/0812229120213000000000026.pdf
the amount of $ in class 19 that did not grant releases is bigger, much bigger
$2,250,000 + $174,826,242 + $739,401,018 + $226,738,000 + $224,400,000 + $420,587,761 + ($25*1,699,700) + ($25* 2,580) = $1,830,760,021
Please share your thoughts and let me know what I'm missing/doing wrong
TIA
Investor123
With an Iphone, are you kidding me?
Well, it´s ok, it takes me around 35 secs with my connection (and is not a bad one)
You should try with a better internet connection
yes, The 4B REITs were placed in the same tranche that rest of preferred and commons; see the email from E.Sargent; Among those $4B, REITs were issued in different "portions", not sure if all of them were Caymans' (or just a portion of 0,75B); anyway 3,729,658.260 REIT/TPS shares provided releases and were "placed" in escrow
From: Edgar G. Sargent [mailto:esargent@SusmanGodfrey.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:36 PM
Subject: RE: Wamu
Here's information I just received from Alvarez showing conversion ratios:
142,500,000 (75% of 190,000,000) are distributed to holders of preferred securities as well as claims subordinated to the level of preferred. Total disputed claims at the preferred level are $106,514,585.09. For those claims, 2,109,051 shares are reserved. The remaining 140,390,949 are distributed evenly by liquidation preference across the $7.5 billion of preferred shares. However, while the TPS are denominated in 1,000s, the Series K has a face amount per share of $25.
For the TPS, 3,729,658.260 shares provided releases and will receive 73,849,406 shares or 19.80058 new shares per old share. This share count is after giving effect to the mandatory exchange.
For Series R, 2,906,421 shares provided releases and will receive 57,548,829 or 19.8005825 new shares per old share.
For Series K, 18,166,565 shares provided releases and will receive 8,992,714 shares or 0.4950146 new shares per old share.
For the common shareholders, they are receiving 47,500,000 shares of which 4,165,750 shares go to the Dime Warrant holders, 2,631,933 shares are reserved for disputed equity claims, 693,806 shares will be distributed to Principal Financial on account of their claims and existing common will get 40,008,511 shares. For each share of existing common granting releases in the total amount of 1,194,340,178 shares, they will receive 0.03349842 shares.
Because no fractional shares are being issued, the percentages for each holder may vary due to rounding. I’m not sure what you are using this information for, but that’s an important point for holders.
Hope this gets you what you need. I'm out until tomorrow so if you have any follow up I will probably respond then.
Edgar
Ok
When you load it and then search for "Change in equity ownership" and then find the chart/panel I mention think about this:
about
"Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but
Why did we have a 42,5% change in equity ownership on 01/30/2014?
Why did we have a 50% (both "3 and 6 months ended") change in equity ownership on 06/30/2014?
Wouldn't a more than 50% change in equity ownership in a less than 3 years period (after the last one in 03/19/2012) jeopardize the NOLs (maybe I'm wrong in this, but this 3 year deadline is what I was considering as correct...)?
Does the 50% figure express an exact change in equity ownership of 50% or does it mean that it has been larger than 50% {see the change in equity ownership on 03/19/2012 (was it exactly a 50% one)}?"
TIA
I cannot upload it here but this is what I see
https://www.boardpost.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6037.0;attach=1236;image
The sec filing mentions a 50% change in equity ownership occurred within this year, and i am concerned about our NOLs
please, follow the instructions, the site is really heavy and you have to wait (maybe a minute, depending on your connection); if you follow them you will find a chart/panel with this info
"Income Taxes - Additional Information (Detail) (USD $)
3 Months Ended 6 Months Ended 12 Months Ended
Jun. 30, 2014
Jun. 30, 2013
Jun. 30, 2014
Jun. 30, 2013
Dec. 31, 2013
Jan. 30, 2014
Dec. 31, 2012
Mar. 19, 2012
Income Tax Disclosure [Abstract]
Net income (loss)
$ 17,322,000 $ (2,484,000) $ 13,942,000 $ (6,300,000) $ 338,000
Percentage of net operating loss carry forwards
100.00% 100.00%
Valuation allowance recorded to be reduce to
0.00% 0.00%
Income tax expense or benefit
0 0
Income tax rate
35.00%
Income tax paid
0 0
Valuation allowance equal to net deferred federal income tax asset
100.00% 100.00% 100.00%
Abandoned stock
8,370,000,000 8,370,000,000
Change in equity ownership
50.00% 50.00% 42.50% 50.00%
Available and utilizable NOL
5,960,000,000
NOLs expiration date
2029
Reserves for uncertain federal income tax positions
0 0
Income tax interest income, expense or penalties "
and my question is about the "3 months ended greater than 50% change in equity ownership of 03/31/2014"
TIA
quote
" Not sure where I need to click on once I click the link....
It takes me to this page.....
WMI HOLDINGS CORP. (Filer) CIK: 0000933136
Print Document View Excel Document
CoverDocument and Entity Information
Financial Statements
Notes to Financial Statements
Accounting Policies
Notes Tables
Notes Details
All Reports
Document and Entity Information
6 Months Ended
Jun. 30, 2014
Aug. 06, 2014
Document And Entity Information [Abstract]
Document Type
10-Q
Amendment Flag
false
Document Period End Date
Jun. 30, 2014
Document Fiscal Year Focus
2014
Document Fiscal Period Focus
Q2
Trading Symbol
WMIH
Entity Registrant Name
WMI HOLDINGS CORP.
Entity Central Index Key
0000933136
Current Fiscal Year End Date
--12-31
Entity Filer Category
Accelerated Filer
Entity Common Stock, Shares Outstanding
202,343,245
You will notice it tells how many shares are outstanding right on this page as well......."
Click in the "red",then wait (it's a heavy site) and then search for
"Change in equity ownership"
and please, when you are there, let me know
Thanks BBanbob
Please, go to this link,http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/viewer?action=view&cik=933136&accession_number=0001193125-14-303111&xbrl_type=v , then click "All Reports", and when the site loads (it's a heavy site) look for
"Change in equity ownership"
when you are there please let me know
TIA
Thanks Investorhub123
Please, go to this link,http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/viewer?action=view&cik=933136&accession_number=0001193125-14-303111&xbrl_type=v , then click "All Reports", and when the site loads (it's a heavy site) look for
"Change in equity ownership"
when you are there please let me know
TIA
Appart from the 2014-08-08 10-Q (mentioned in the previous post), the 2014-05-09 10-Q (both in their interactive version, see http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?action=getcompany&CIK=933136 ) also shows the 50% ownership change occurred on "Mar. 31, 2014; 3 months ended" { see http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/viewer?action=view&cik=933136&accession_number=0001193125-14-192418&xbrl_type=v , then click in "All reports" then wait (it'll probably take a few seconds) and then look for "8,370,000,000" }
{the 8,370,000,000 figure is just in 4 places (2 times in 2 different docs (2*2=4) in that link);In one of those two docs/"places" you can see the mentioned change in equity ownership; in the other, the numeber of shares outstanding through time,..., etc }
Have you read the sec filings {the 8,370,000,000 figure is just in 4 places (2 times in 2 different docs (2*2=4) in that link)}, all the info I mention is in those 2 docs
What do you deduct after reading it/them?
Please share your thoughts
TIA
Change in Equity Ownership?
Hi
Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but
Why did we have a 42,5% change in equity ownership on 01/30/2014? (I believe then we had 201,842,351 shares outstanding)
Why did we have a 50% (both "3 and 6 months ended") change in equity ownership on 06/30/2014? (I believe then we had 202,343,245 shares outstanding)
Wouldn't a more than 50% change in equity ownership in a less than 3 years period (after the last one in 03/19/2012) jeopardize the NOLs (maybe I'm wrong in this, but this 3 year deadline is what I was considering as correct...)?
Does the 50% figure express an exact change in equity ownership of 50% or does it mean that it has been larger than 50% {see the change in equity ownership on 03/19/2012 (was it exactly a 50% one also)}?
TIA
PS: you can access the info I mention this way:
go http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/viewer?action=view&cik=933136&accession_number=0001193125-14-303111&xbrl_type=v ; then click in "All reports" then wait (it'll probably take a few seconds) and then look for "
"8,370,000,000
My calculation is wrong, you should use this data to make it right
From: Edgar G. Sargent [mailto:esargent@SusmanGodfrey.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:36 PM
Subject: RE: Wamu
Here's information I just received from Alvarez showing conversion ratios:
142,500,000 (75% of 190,000,000) are distributed to holders of preferred securities as well as claims subordinated to the level of preferred. Total disputed claims at the preferred level are $106,514,585.09. For those claims, 2,109,051 shares are reserved. The remaining 140,390,949 are distributed evenly by liquidation preference across the $7.5 billion of preferred shares. However, while the TPS are denominated in 1,000s, the Series K has a face amount per share of $25.
For the TPS, 3,729,658.260 shares provided releases and will receive 73,849,406 shares or 19.80058 new shares per old share. This share count is after giving effect to the mandatory exchange.
For Series R, 2,906,421 shares provided releases and will receive 57,548,829 or 19.8005825 new shares per old share.
For Series K, 18,166,565 shares provided releases and will receive 8,992,714 shares or 0.4950146 new shares per old share.
For the common shareholders, they are receiving 47,500,000 shares of which 4,165,750 shares go to the Dime Warrant holders, 2,631,933 shares are reserved for disputed equity claims, 693,806 shares will be distributed to Principal Financial on account of their claims and existing common will get 40,008,511 shares. For each share of existing common granting releases in the total amount of 1,194,340,178 shares, they will receive 0.03349842 shares.
Because no fractional shares are being issued, the percentages for each holder may vary due to rounding. I’m not sure what you are using this information for, but that’s an important point for holders.
Hope this gets you what you need. I'm out until tomorrow so if you have any follow up I will probably respond then.
Edgar
Releases (and not accepting or rejecting the plan) is what matters for the calculation
So instead of $4,068,010,409 we sholud use {(3,729,658.260*1000)for REITs+ (2,906,421*1000) for WAMPQs + (18,166,565 * 25) for WAMKQs}= $7,090,243,385
So $2.538699875674296 per old $ ($ in face value of your holdings in preferred shares)
$2,538.699875674296 {or($1000*2.538699875674296)} per old wampq ($1000 face value securities) unit
$63.4674968918574 {or($25*2.538699875674296)} per old wamkq ($25 face value securities) unit
Hi kentS
Could you provide a link (and page)?
TIA
Hi BBANBOB
Could you please post the link to "WMI Holdings Inc. DE Stock Information
.PDF Download View "?
TIA
Hi Bbanbob,
I believe this is the calculation:
$24B - $6B (for commons) = $18B (for preferred shares)
Then, "only" $4,068,010,409 of preferred interests voted in favor of the plan (and are allowed to potential WMILT distributions....); {see http://www.kccllc.net/wamu/document/0812229120213000000000026 (page 11/389)}
So $18,000,000,000/4,068,010,409 = $4.424767439182823 per old $ ($ in face value of your holdings in preferred shares)
So,
$4,424.767439182823 {or($1000*4.424767439182823)} per old wampq ($1000 face value securities) unit
$110.6191859795706 {or($25*4.424767439182823)} per old wamkq ($25 face value securities) unit
Best regards
Hi fredscott36
quote
"...FDIC settled VERY, VERY early............................... "
can you prove what you state? part of it?
TIA
Hi kilshaw
Filing a Freedom of Information Act request may eventually be a good idea (I believe that first we must wait for the moment in which equity is in control of Trust Advisory Board )
Best regards
Hi dialer55
another investor´s quote
"PIERS check has arrived in mail today. $2.6663 per share.
This check was drawn on Bank of America, Atlanta, Dekalb County, Georgia"
Could someone else verify this amount per old WAHUQ unit?
TIA
Hi Donot
I believe that we (as WMILT and/or WMIH beneficiaries/shareholders) cannot bring the needed and remaining financial and accounting evidence (this is what I mean by facts) regarding the WaMu receivership on to the table.
Only the FDIC-R can do this {and we should follow this closely and take action (only if necessary) in order to make sure this proper and complete audit of the receivership as well as many other remaining issues take place sooner than later; hopefully we won´t have anything to pursue because the proper amount of Cash (if any) will be deposited in our accounts by the FDIC-R through the WMILT}, IMHO
Best Regards
Hi LG
I also believe that WMILT will NOT put out any such statement, even if they do it will probe nothing, we need facts (financial and accounting evidence), the rest (if it came) will only bring more confusion (and of that we have had enough)
FDIC has to bring these facts (and WMILT and WMIH should take actions (if needed) in order to make sure this happens and in order to make this happen sooner than later)
IMHO
Best regards
Hi clawmann
Great & sensible post (I also believe the FDIC has to do and will do a proper audit of the receivership)
Best regards
Hi nranger
who knows, maybe it is just a server error,anyway
Go to this link (http://www.fdic.gov/bank/individual/failed/wamu_settlement.html) then
press the (WAMU Quarterly Receivership Balance Sheet Summary ) link (it works), but it doesn´t if you reload the url this link provides....
Anyway, the fact is that this balance is unaudited after 5+ years, and it should be AUDITED
Hi investorhub123
I believe we have cash recovery potential from two "different" roots, the WMILT and the UNAUDITED FDIC-R balance {(https://www5.fdic.gov/drrip/bal/balancesheet.asp) which may eventually push cash into the wmilt...};
To eventually get aditional cash (if any) from the second root we need to get that balance AUDITED
Hi Olti,
How is it possible that the WASHINGTON MUTUAL BANK - Receivership Balance Sheet Summary (at FDIC-R) is Unaudited after 5+ years? (see https://www5.fdic.gov/drrip/bal/balancesheet.asp )
I believe That is the audit we need!!
Thanks so much for your help Donotunderstand, lets see if My Bank solves this and I can move on
Take Care
Hi nranger
I believe you have received less RONs units than the correct amonut... (have a look at this http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=102745991)
Take Care
Thanks so much for your analisis Donotunderstand
My problem now is (these numbers May help someone else) that I received only
1.9 (before interest) Senior First Lien Notes per old WAHUQ unit
0.59625 (before interest) Senior Second Lien Notes per old WAHUQ unit
{Which is approx 68,7% less (2,49625 RONs per old WAHUQ unit vs aprox 4.21139 RONs per old WAHUQ unit) than the correct amount}
Did former WAMUQ shareholder/s benefit from this?? I have a reasonable doubt and I reported it to Selfbank
Best Regards
PLEASE REPORT THIS
http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=103360142
To your Bank/broker if you think this may have happened there as well
Thanks in advance
Hi Taxman007
Did you ever own WAHUQ shares (Or just WAMUQ shares)??
{ http://quantumonline.com/search.cfm?tickersymbol=WAMUQ&sopt=symbol
http://quantumonline.com/search.cfm?tickersymbol=WAHUQ&sopt=symbol
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1143930/000091205701531093/a2058482zs-3a.htm }
What you have in your account is (part of a Long story but) related to this :
" A DISTRIBUTION OF APPROXIMATELY $106 MILLION OF RUNOFF NOTES, COMPRISING OF $81 MILLION FIRST LIEN NOTES AND $25 MILLION SECOND LIEN NOTES, WILL BE MADE TO TRANCHE 4 LTI HOLDERS ON MAY 1, 2014. A LARGE MAJORITY OF THE RUNOFF NOTES WILL BE DISTRIBUTED TO INDIVIDUAL BENEFICARY BROKERAGE ACCOUNTS; HOWEVER, CERTAIN RUNOFF NOTES WILL BE CERTIFICATED AND SENT TO HOLDERS WHO DO NOT MAINTAIN A DTC-ELIGIBLE BROKERAGE ACCOUNT OR TO THE EXTENT A HOLDER DID NOT PROVIDE THE bLIQUIDATING TRUST WITH RELEVANT BROKERAGE ACCOUNT INFORMATION. A SEPARATE FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (OR “FAQ”) REGARDING THE DISTRIBUTION WILL BE MADE AVAILABLE TO BENEFICIARIES SHORTLY AFTER THE DISTRIBUTION." { see http://www.kccllc.net/documents/8817600/8817600140430000000000001.pdf } and related to former WAHUQ (NOT WAMUQ) shareholders
I believe that some former WAMUQ shareholders have received these RONs...... and this is a HUGE MISTAKE (I believe this because some are saying that they recieved them in "spanish" message boards)
Now the best part, in the meanwhile I have received less RONs than the number I am entitled to receive......
I have reported all of "this" to my Bank, hopefully they will solve the problem (Best if they do it before RONs are called and converted into Cash....)
Cash
RONs holders are entitled to receive Cash in their accounts ( see http://ih.advfn.com/p.php?pid=nmona&article=62437065 )
{ http://www.kccllc.net/wamu/document/0812229120213000000000026 (Docket 9662)
I hope the link (with the POR 7 Voting results) helps to understand/verify the amounts of the present and future payments concerning RONs, PIERS and whatever comes later in the waterfall (hopefully Classes 19 and 22 too)
First glance at page 10/389 recommended
Class 16 – PIERS Claims ($771,478,598.22 (99.11%)) --- Accepted
Class 16 – PIERS Claims ($6,959,274.50 (0.89%))--- Rejected }
I believe the amount announced should be (16,500,000/(23,000,00*0.9911)) = 0.7238334218 USD/ Old WAHUQ UNIT
Has it been paid yet? Is it different to the quarterly interest payment (13% / 4 )?
TIA
Thanks for your wishes Olti, good to know you will receive those 13% RONs in a few days
Not My finest day..., I forgot to say it
Thanks so much to Ssstock13 for his answer and also for his permission to copy this from BoardPost !
(see http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=102745991)
GLTA WMIHers
Hi Olti, my situation concerning RONs & PIERS is similar to yours, and I had the same question yesterday...
Here it is Ssstock13 answer, I hope it helps
https://www.boardpost.net/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=69015;topic=5640.0 ;
[quote author=Ssstock13 link=topic=5640.msg69015#msg69015 date=1401578009]
We received 4.21 in RONs and New Claim is 6.90 per old WAHUQ shares. Below is my estimate corrected after the distribution occurred. Hope this helps IPrelude.
We are getting 96m in RONs and reduction of 84m in LTIs.
The trust owes PIERS 240m. So, 96/240=0.40.
Claim is 10.53 per Old WAHUQ/PIERS. So, 10.53*0.4=4.212
Looks like $4.21 per share coming in form of RONs.
Reduction LTIs is 84m. So, 84/240=0.35. 10.53*0.35=3.6855. 10.53-3.6855=6.8445 new claim amount. (actual 6.90 New Claim Amt.)
6.90+4.21= 11.11 estimated street value per OLD WAHUQ/PIERS share.
Bottom Line, we are getting $4.21 in RONs earning 13% and WMILT still owes you $6.90
PIK interest at time of RON distribution
RONs $4.21-$3.68 =$0.53
RONs = $4.21 (accruing @ 13%)
Claims = $6.90 (accruing @ 1.99%)
Total Value (RONs&Claims)Old WAHUQ now =$11.11 and growing at approximately $0.056per month
Monthly interest est. based on OLD WAHUQ/PIERS at $11.11 per share
RONs $4.21*0.13/12=$0.045/month
Claims $6.90*0.0199/12=$0.011/ month
Total accruing interest =$0.056/month
$0.056 equates to Total PIERS Value increase of approx $1,288,000 every month (~$15.6M/yr.). RONs $1,035,000/Claims $253,000
So, OLD WAHUQ/PIERS are worth in May $11.11...June $11.16...July $11.21...Aug $11.27...Sept $11.32
[/quote]
Take Care
Pd: By the way, Selfbank is my bank concerning this issue,
Hi Jagan
I'm having the same problems (SelfBank, Spain).
When authorized by the original poster I'll answer in detail your question about RONs, PIERS,... (in the meanwhile you can see it here https://www.boardpost.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=284 (Ssstock13's last post))
Take Care