Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
Register for free to join our community of investors and share your ideas. You will also get access to streaming quotes, interactive charts, trades, portfolio, live options flow and more tools.
True. Its been at that no# since bout jan with little change. You would have thought that at the rate they were coverin late last year and the amount of holders that sold off there would be no short. It really seems shares are unavailable or they falsely believe commons will go bust.
On that note isn't it interesting that the false prophets on this board that predict the "fall" of commons never mention or acknowledge the link between it and the 20bil NOL.
Does n e one know the current short share count???
With all this talk about commons gettin cancelled/nothing, every poster that has proferred this theory has conveniently neglected to address this critical issue. That is, the $20Bil NOL (net operating loss) that WMI is entitled to. So would all the "experts" on what commons will and wont get please explain how commons could be eliminated without substantially depreciating/eliminating the NOL value?????
I eagerly anticipate your responses.
If I remember correctly firstcity bancorp of texas was ajudged to be illegally seized by fdic and restitution made in 1-2 years.
? re providian: can JPM legally claim providian(CC company) as part of WMB that they bought? I believe WMI bought providian for $6 bil and would have obviously had it run by the banking arm of the company but that didn't mean it was owned by WMB and could be legally seized!
Thoughts anyone ???
Can't believe this POS is still around! Do they even produce n e thin yet???
Liquidation will happen if a viable restructuring plan is not approved by court. The assets will be sold off to raise $ to pay off secured creditors, unsecured and *shareholders (*if funds are available). P payoff of $1000 or negotiated value in liquidation. If company has plan but no money left after paying creditors old shares are cancelled to issue new shares to raise $ for new operation. Convert P to commons based on reorg plan. P can get convert as new shares issued or as dilution of old shares if they are retained. All based on reorg plan and "MUST" be approved by bankr. court. Note WMI has large cash so I do not see commons bein wiped out at all!!! They have stated in court docs that they xpect to exit bankr. by 3rd qtr this year. I like commons to stay intact due to who invested $8 billion worth ie TPG/Chinese Govt. Can't see them lettin those east coast clowns gettin away wit this robbery. As for location of info I'll have to defer u to Jackson227, he seems to be on top of all court and company info and will be better able to direct u to the relevant sources. Hope I covered everythin.
GLTU
Q- wamuq. The common stock
P- wampq. Preferred stock
Difference- Q is last to be paid in liquidation, so if no money is left Q gets zero. Also Q can be cancelled by company to issue new stock.
P is just before Q in terms of payment(not 100% sure) but has liquidation value of $1000. Can be converted to Q at 114 to 1.
As for #s bein thrown out its all speculation/opinion since no one knows for sure. The chance of this bein stock play of all time is huge due to the nature of this case and players involved.
Lots of court info to read so u betta get busy!!! Hope I helped.
Jpm has NO power to dissolve/cancel shares. These shares are controlled by the holding company, WMI.
Why do you guys even bother with this guy? He's D.INDIAN posting under a new alias. Same post style and content!!!
I look at this logically. If WMI was cooking the books they would be doing this to cover up substantial losses or financial impropriety....correct?
Then if this was the case how could JPM post a $0.30+ EPS based upon their acquisition of WMB, when if not for this "purchase" they would have posted a $0.07 loss.If you are correct, then JPM has also cooked WMB's books.
Question: How is it that most/all of the large holders have supposedly sold out(@ $0.04-$0.05 levels), yet there is still a 57 million+ shares short??? Wouldn't they have covered at these levels? As a matter of fact the short actually increased from march-april.
Can anyone tell me how this could be? Thanks.
Keywords- NOL
TPG
CASH
This had to do with bad/illegal mortgage loan and valuation practices by the bank. It was noted though that "usually" nothing comes out of these probes as has happened with similar ones in the past.
While there is always a possibility commons can be cancelled, in this case it is unlikely. Based on the facts that the difference between A/L is small, a large portion of the assets is cash and cancel of shares must be approved by bankruptcy judge.( The liabilities, most are due 20-30 years from now). There are outstanding issues with lawsuits against FDIC/JPM which they are poised to win massive compensation which would make A/L positive. There is the issue with NOL which rely on share structure remaining in tact. Then there are the large investors like TPG who pumped billions into wamu, some of which came from the Chinese govt. to deal with. If I were you I would start reading now to confirm all this since all info and court docs are here via links. Hope this helps a bit.
At least we no JPM will be receiving a "FULL FISTED" salute since he, weil severed ties with UBS to focus on this case. Saw it on bloomberg ticker yesterday.
Saw this on a Bloomberg Ticker this morning: Raoul Weil (WMI lawyer) severs ties with UBS to focus on "US CASE". I wonder if this has anything to do with that development. Hmmmmmm!!!
Bloomberg Ticker: Raoul Weil severs ties with UBS to focus on US case. Is this our Weil???
That was the amount at end of February. Is it still at 57 Million now ?
Anyone!!! What's up with the Jpm claim that was to be filed. Have I missed it....was it done ?
Thanks.
Exactly!!! I first realised this when ms bair made the request for wider power for the Fdic.
The many that follow this case daily including myself will know that the statements in the Fdic release contradicts past ones made by them and Jpm.
All Baloney!!!
Is'nt Jpig$hit supposed to state their claims today???
Ayyyyyyyyye! Green since $0.0058
Can anyone tell me when the USPTO decison on the remaining patent applications are due???
i hope so. Btw im up cuz im at work, if you're not u really need to go to bed. look at the time...LOL
Their suit is very ludicrous but in the end they will accomplish what they set out to do.... ie, to delay the whole process, at least for now.
The more i think about ,the funnier it gets...talk about biting off the hand that fed/saved you.
they have already indicated that they will be emerging from bankruptcy in 3rd qtr of 2009 and any cancellation of commons will have to be approved by the judge. in addition, their 20 Billion net operating loss(NOL) benefit will be lost if there is a change in beneficial ownership ie holders of approx 5% of outstanding common shares or more. these facts are all available to anyone who is willing to take the time to read "ALL THE COURT" docs out there!!!
i hear you even though i dont agree with you. i am not overconfident but am cautiously optomistic. the mistake most posters like you make is that you focus on one element of this case that makes your argument sound legit. if you should do some additional research you will see that wmi differs from all these cases (apples to bananas). first off wmi entered bankruptcy to protect its remaining assets from being raided, ie voluntarily. they also have almost $5 bill cash, assets/liabilities are basically the same, secured debt is due in 30-40 years from now.... and i could go on and on. please read all the available info related to this case and then try to prove to us that we're making a mistake, if you so desire. you may have a more receptive audience then.
Take care.
Relax people!!! Wait until the 30th of this month to see what Jpm claims it bought from Fdic. Two things can happen, Jpm may claim assets that should not have been sold by Fdic or claim only the bank, so that assets are returned to WMI. Either outcome is great for us.
Jackson forgot to add that retention of their 20 Billion Nol benefit is tied to the current common stock share structure. Eliminate the commons and they flush all that tax relief down the toilet. Don't believe me? Check the court docs for confirmation.
I'm happy to see that some longs are now benefitting from the rise in pps. I'm in @ $0.006 and thrilled. All this company has to do is capatalize on this amazing technology with the backing of the patents and were all "Golden". I expect big things in 3rd or 4th qtr 2009 once public awareness grows.
I believe that "da shite" will really hit the fan when JPM is forced to state their claim by the 30th March. This whole storm for the Fdic/JPM resulted from their hasty sale of Wamu without properly establishing what could be and what couldn't be sold. Hence the absence of an asset list in the infamous sale agreement. Remember they tried to do this with Wachovia by agreeing to sell them to Citi for 2.2Billion. This was subsequently blocked by the courts and Wach was sold to Wells Fargo for 15.1Billion.
Lastly pay no attention to many of the so called experts/pundits since Wamu has just come back onto their radar and they are talking out of their azzes. I'm sure none of them have bothered to go over any court documentation and utterances from JPM/Fdic management and process this info as a whole before making erroneous claims. Note, these are the same guys under whose nose the economy went into a death spiral that they never saw. I have lived this case since its inception as well as many here, so none of these clowns verbal garbage will sway me from my belief of what transpired here.
Could anyone tell me what is WMI's total debt obligation in the case of a liquidation??? If their bankruptcy filing is correct it should be 8 Billion. I dont understand how that so called banking expert, quoted in the Seattle Times piece could say that common holders arent likely to receive anything even if WMI wins its suit against the FDIC. (link in post# 58920)
Anyone????
57 million as of January 27,2009. Apparently not many available shares out there!!!
$307 Billion worth in assets as of June 30,2008. Three months before seizure.
All this talk bout commons bein wiped out is nonsense. Remember that holders with greater than 5% stake in commons must get bk court permission to selloff.
All this was done to preserve Nol
value. So until someone can factually prove to me that WMI can cancel commons and retain Nol benefit, I WON'T believe it.
Ask yourselves this, which company in this recession is going to nullify
20+ Billion in tax breaks?
If I'm wrong please correct me until then I'm stickin with TPG !!!
March 31st. is bar date.
Yes. Cancel of commons is the usual course taken to ease that debt burden so the company may emerge from bankruptcy and generate capital from the issue of new shares. This in no way as my post stated has anything to do with WMI since they have very valuable assets including substantial cash. In this case I can't see the judge allowing cancel of commons since the company is viable with shares intact.
Did you misinterpret my last post?
It is my understanding that commons are usually cancelled to releive the company of that debt when there is little or no money available and this MUST be approved by the bankruptcy judge. In the case of WMI if their assets increase dramatically as we all hope added to change of ownership issues related to nol and that I don't foresee TPG(230mil shares) accepting that outcome, I do not forsee commons being cancelled.