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Helpful Farms is NOT MMj or RMJ
Therefore anyone should be able to walk into the shop amd kick the tires on the Zazzz machine. Unfortunately out of an alleged base of "57,000" shareholders, not a single one has stopped by to check out the Zazzz machine at Hempful Farms in AZ. Not one.
And as for checking out Nature's Kiss Zazzz, even if your don't have an MMJ card for CO, I'm sure someone could talk their way into getting a look at the Zazzz. First of all, reporters who did news broadcasts for national network affiliates in Seattle and Denver most likely did not have MMJ cards but we're allowed access for the report. AND in July last year, Greg Honan let an ERBB shareholder without a CO MMJ license take video of the Zazzz at Herbal Elements. The shareholder posted something about not being able to purchase from Zazzz but at least getting to see it.
So let's not act like an MMJ license is like a key to a car and you can't get in without one.
You Missed the "K"
$500k PennyStomper, 500 k as in 500,000
Vastly Overstating MMs Role
The Market Makers (I hope you are facetiously referring to them as Manipulators) are not in "absolute control over the success, or failure" of your money, YOU ARE. Once you choose to become vested the MMs are only a small part in the enormous machine that grinds the markets every day. Fellow investors, traders, CEOs, supply chains, energy prices, and a million other market forces are controlling share price.
The previous post raises a very concerning point that I have often remarked; why has there been zero customer response to the Zazzz machine? Zero social media? Some here get quite huffy about "call the dispensary" and not allowing cameras in dispensaries but that is all nonsense. Greg would and certainly should and certainly has allowed shareholders shoot pics and video in Herbal Elements. In fact, wasn't it around July last year when Greg posted on FaceBook that an ERBB shareholder shot a video of the Zazzz at HE?
This is why I cannot wait until ExhaleMedCenter gets thei machine. Hopefully by the time EMC gets their Zazzz, AG will have their act together but it isn't looking promising right now as it's been a month since the exciting PR and no machine in sight.
These are the real problems affecting share price. Not MMs. Like I keep saying....it's not like there is some overwhelming demand for ERBB shares and MMs aren't filling the bids. ERBB trades an average of 30m shares a day at a freaking penny....that's less than $500k in daily volume and with razor thin spreads from which MMs profits, I'm sorry it just doesn't add up.
Good Points Rockhall
I think you're point about the Fed and the Big Board support really nails home how manipulated even the prime markets are, though I do think the SEC involvement says more about PH0T than the overall MJ market. Also, I thinks it's positive news that ERBB passed the SEC sniff test.
I do think penny stocks are quite easily manipulated but my hope here with ERBB and a few others is that they become viable companies, something that is a rarity in penny stocks. Right now AG is looking like a bunch of 4th graders trying to put on a Xmas play. We want Broadway
Okay I Overstated A Bit
Maybe Zazzz has generated more than a dime but not much.
I don't see Zazzz as "icing" though, I see it as the cake and the other facets are merely topping.
Growing mediums and nutrients, as well as growing hardware is not going to build a multi-billion dollar business. The grow space is already pretty crowded, as I have noticed being a medical patient in CA for over 10 years. Companies that make lighting, grow boxes and such like HydroFarm are not ever going to be major corporations.
But Zazz could. Zazzz has the potential,to be an enormous presence like RedBox. Sadly, the vision I had for Zazzz has been completely clouded by this utterly failed 12 month long "launch".
As for the poster who claimed Zazzz was the 2nd worst launch of a product, comparing it to health care, you're a complete........
Yeah, That's Not Going to Happen
You sound like John Sculley forcing a CEO out for being critical of their own company. Look up that reference if you don't already know it.
I'm not saying ERBB amd AG don't have all sorts of potential. The vending machine idea is great and if it is truly backed up by ownership of the Tomassi patent, that's spectacular. The other facets of AG are compelling as well and the legal MJ industry.....well.....don't get me started there because that is a dream coming true. And that's why I'm a large shareholder, passionate about this investment. I don't play pennies with the exception of MJ stocks.
But my gripe here is the sloppiness of managemnt as well as the complete displacement of blame on MMs, shorts and other bogeymen. It's not like AG is absolutely fundamentally on fire and the stock just can't get a break
I Did, but Now I'm Much More Skeptical
At first SS came across as a much needed shot in the arm for AG. He spearheaded the Zazzz development and was instrumental in making it happen. Unfortunately, what was been brought forth is a clunky box that has yet to show any real revenue progress through to the 2nd generation of the device, along with a stream of excuses, fumbles and information that failed to come to fruition.
But the MMs......
I Wouldn't Call My Observations "Extreme"
North Korean leadership would have you believe their country is doing great and the citizens are well cared for but we know the truth is nearly the opposite. That's not extreme because it is the opposite side of the spectrum, it's just the truth.
So when AG PRs about all the machines and Shearin drones on about all the orders and the "weekly" offers of money, do you really believe it?
As far a Zazzz, it's a complete disaster. It would be better if AG delayed Zazzz up until now and finally released it a year late because it has been almost 12 months of pure horseshit. This is the worst, most f'ed up product "launch" I have ever seen but we all know it's the MMs fault so.......
Finally, Thank You DOCTOR
Thank you for finally acknowledging that AG's fundamental missteps are a major contributor to the pps erosion!!!
I realize you did not 100% admit that AG is the real source of ERBB's downfall but it's a step in the right direction. In all honesty, the .11 high is from a bubble and returning to those highs will be harder than ever.
The bottom line here is that there is little actual bullish buying despite the constant chest thumping here by enthusiast shareholders. Let's not act like there are endless bids on Level 2 that MMs are just not filling. There's almost zero buying demand. And the MMs are doing their jobs considering I've never had any problems buying or selling and that's not because ERBB is so liquid
Don't Know but Open to Evidence Otherwise
Have any Zazzz revenues been reported in any earnings report? Have any Mach 1 revenues been reported in the almost year since it was "launched"? Has anyone seen even one single user video of a Zazzz purchase aside from the internal media from AG and shop owners?
Or are the Zazzz making millions and the MMs are just keeping the price down on Level 2?
Has AG Not Learned a Damn Thing
So they announced a Zazzz "order" in a PR. An order for equipment yet to be built? Absolutely moronic.
How has that worked out so far? Let's see. Well there was a $1.7m "order" for Jurassic Water units. A week later Stephen came out with an oops on that PR and claimed it was misreported and the order was actually $1.17m. Whatever, it's still a million dollar order. And today? That order is dead and the reason; we (AG) didn't want to release equipment that wasn't 100% ready. So, AG is willing to PR about a "deal" that isn't even sealed but when they can't fulfill the order, they expect to be able to pull off that lame excuse.
And where have I heard the "we don't want to prematurely release an unfinished product" excuse......? Oh yeah, Zazzz since day 1.
We all get excited about the Montana Zazzz launch. Then finally the placement at Herbal Elements. But for weeks the machine collects dust, becuase AG needs to make the machine 100%.
So finally the machine is nowhere near 100% or generating sales and what comes next......?
A new model Zazzz machine...that has now been out for 4 months and hasn't generated a dime, much less even operational.
What a DIZAZZZTER! I'm embarrassed
Zazzznetwork.com - No Herbal Elements or Doctor's Orders?
Strange considering Herbal Elements and Greg Honan (HE owner) were integrally involved in the launch and per an older PR, Greg was brought on to AG in a high capacity (probably issued him loads of shares). Doctor's Order was also one of the original Zazzz locations.
It would be great to get some actual clarity regarding the Zazzz network, locations and progress. Are the shops on the site confirmed? Are the machines actually delivered to the shops and awaiting activation or are the machines still awaiting delivery? How many machines per locations? At this point, the Zazzz is a complete disaster and I wonder if the 2 generations have even brought in $100. Every PR and live event is followed by nothing. Literally nothing. Zero customer feedback. Zero shareholder dilligence. Zero media follow up. And worse, zero follow up on earnings reports.
Someone get these questions to Stephen so we can, er stop MM manipulation.......
I Don't Call Prices
That's a game for amateurs and shills. I will call price directions and right now there is not a single reason that I can see that will keep ERBB from dropping. The technical pressure that was holding it up in recent weeks was aired out and there is zero support below a penny. Right now the only PR or news that would matter is substantial revenues, major financing from an institution or some other spectacular fundamental development.
As for the MM being the "only ones who have made money" on ERBB, well that's ridiculous. In early 2014 I made money and so did plenty longs or so they claim. Then there's the shorts, who made plenty from .11-.01, as many posters here have acknowledged (also blamed). So that quote above is stupid, as is the MMs argument entirely because the cult shareholders are acting like American Green is just fundamentally gangbusters and it's just the MMs that have kept the stock down.
A year and a half ago, I initially spent time here to counter all the lies about Zazzz never happening. Now a year later I'm trying to talk sense into cultish shareholders so we can move past the lies and conjecture in order to focus on the real issues at hand. I'm pleased to hear my words about AG have reached Shearin. I've sent some emails myself with no response. It's rather disappointing as a large shareholder who has previously communicate with Stephen. I have emailed him some serious business notes that could actually help AG. Since he no longer cares to reply to one of ERBB's largest retail shareholders who has valuable business ideas and experience, I will stick to rattling this monkey cage.
So has anyone heard back as to why Herbal Elements and Doctors Orders are not in the Colorado section of the Zazzznetwork.com site or are people just going to yell at me as it was my fault?
And how's that ExhaleMedCenter Zazzz delivery going now 4 weeks after the PR? Last week Demetry (Exhale owner) said the machine isn't there and a date has yet to be decided.
But who cares because it's all the MMs fault anyway
Congratulations, You Sound Very Bitter
And here's to "hoping" for .0075 so you can "load up"
Have the MMs Been Blamed Yet Today?
Are they still suppressing this overwhelming buying interest and demand for ERBB stock? Gosh, all the pieces are there with AG;
Great revenues, excellent product expansion, flush with cash and funding.....but the stock just can't seem to get a break. It's just the stock and the MMs though, they're the real problem here
Brochstein's Losses Aren't Limited to Penny Stocks
He lost money for his mommy and daddy's foundation and many other professional institutions. That's In large part why he's Currently shilling for penny stocks, it's the last stop. AND HE EVEN FAILED HERE!
VAPE another Brochstein gem at he was touting at 6-8, and that's dollars people!
It MUST Be the MMs
ERBB $1 if NOT for MMs
Yeah, and Pets.com is worth $75b!!!
Man I thought I heard it all.
This is an example of why penny stocks are so laughable and why ERBB needs an educated shareholder base not a ferverant cult following.
Thanks for the chuckle.
Legal Protocol IS ABSOLTUELY DISCRETIONARY
Um, just because it's a law doesn't mean it will be obeyed. Man makes laws, man enforces laws and man observes law. We are not computers who are given set parameters that we cannot alter. It's illegal to drink and drive but a car still starts if a boozy driver fires the ignition. I don't need to go into examples but cmon man! I'm not saying HE is in violation but give me a break.
As for the Zazzznetwork.com issues, look it up yourself! Copy and paste from the last sentence. Then look for Herbal Elements or Doctors Orders under the Colorado section on the site. NOTHING. Why is there nothing and why has this not received ANY ATTENTION HERE?
Did You Ask Why They're Not on Zazzznetwork.com?
Herbal Elements and Doctors Orders are both NOT on the network.
Did you ask HE about that?
And you never did answer if you have actually ever been to HE?
That's total BS about needing a CO MMJ card to walk on. Of course they will say that over the phone. I've been in to see the Mach 1 without a CO MMJ card. Obviously I couldn't use it (not like there was much to buy from it anyway) and I couldn't buy MJ, but I was in the shop kicking around. Seriously man, do you think the news reporters who have done reports from HE and Seattle Caregivers have or had to acquire MMJ cards to enter the shops or do you think they are just allowed discretionary access?
Completely Incorrect, Need MMJ Card to Purchase
You need an MMJ card to PURCHASE MJ at Herbal Elements not to ENTER the shop. Have you even been there? There is a large, open, store front lobby with a check in desk just to the right of the back room where the THC products are sold. When I was there for about an hour, several patients came in with friends who did not have MMJ cards and the friend just sat in the lobby while the patient went in back to get their medication. Greg runs a legit shop and during my visit he turned away several recreational customers, recommending a rec shop down valley.
Not Poppng Champs Yet
"American Green is as legit as it gets and we backed a winner Longs!"
I don't think there is any clear evidence of any "winners" in the publicly traded MJ space. Maybe GWPeeH after Friday but even then.....ERBB is at a 52-week low and you are acting as if it's in dollarland?
And why is the industry going to break the gates this week or is this just more, "wait til next PR" and "wait til next ER" talk?
Once Again, You've Proved NOTHING
Who cares if he has or does not have an MMJ card to go into Herbal Elements? I'm a CA MMJ patient and got to check out the machine at HE without a Colorado card. Do you think every news reporter has an MMJ card in order to do a report inside the dispensary. When I visited HE the Mach 1 Zazzz machine was in the large front room just off the entrance to the back room with the flower, edibles and other THC goods.
You DO NOT need an MMJ card to get into HE. Sorry, wrong again.
ERBB a Penny Undoubtedly Due to Market Makers?
Blaming MMs for ERBB being near a penny?
First, let's not act like it hasn't been here before, many times. A year and a half ago, a penny would have been a 500% gain. When I bought my first 100k shares, ERBB was .01 in about 2012 before crashing to triple zeros. Also, ERBB is a pink sheet, penny stock after all.
But seriously, do people here really think MMs are the end all be all price setters, discounting every other market force? There are so many reasons stocks trade the way they do, only one small part of which is the specialist handling the trade.
This has been a spirited discussion with many different perspectives but it also distracts real investors from focusing on operational mishaps and achievements of AG. The Zazzz engine chugs ahead but there is just so little known here at this point. The Zazzz website, the video snippets, the PRs, cold-calling and channel checking dispensaries....none of it really provides a clear picture of the Zazzz progress.
Machines have been placed but there has been zero customer feedback, or even shareholder reports from dispensaries with Zazzz machines. The ExhaleMedCenter in LA has yet to receive theirs. You'd think with the 57k shareholders and 1800+ followers here, at least 1 or 2 of us could visit a Zazzz location to get some verifiable feedback. It would be great to get some real world feedback for Zazzz site visits.
Laws of Supply and Demand Rule
AG has not fulfilled many of their business goals. Many of their own PRed about objectives have been delayed, stalled or scrapped entirely. This causes share price erosion and is not linked to MMs. Its also bad for business. Yes, there is plenty good to come from AG but time is running out unless revenues are generated.
The MJ charts look the same because there was a major stock bubble in the MJ market. In 2011, 2012 and 2013 there were similar mini-bubbles with many MJ plays and 2014 was the mega-bubble. MMs were NOT responsible for the outrageous demand in early 2014 that lead to new highs and did their job to facilitate the many high volume days during that time.
MMs did not collapse the MJ market either. Unfortunately those prices were not justifiable when the revenues did not follow the projections.
Right now there is no demand in the pot sector. Nobody cares about publicly traded MJ companies because the real money being made is the private grow-ops, the individual dispensaries, the edible makers. ERBB and AG are probably the best positioned to make money in the actual THC sales game by offering an ancillary service like vending.
if the MM bogeyman story makes you feel good about ERBB and the meltdown of the publicly traded MJ market, the so be it.
I tend to look for more rational reasons for price movement;
Major operational mishaps, revenues, intraday volumes, technical indicators, legislative limbo, regulatory limbo, debenture/service providers selling shares for standard business reasons, supply and demand.........
Zazzz "Launch", Zazzz "Live", Zazzz "Online", Zazzzz WTF
Yet another ho-hum, who gives reaction to 2 Zazzz machines "coming online."
I've been saying it for months,
Who cares about these videos of Stephen and shop owners dillying with Zazzz machines?
Clearly nobody.
Customers damnit, we want to see customers.
And as for the Zazzz network website, wowzers! The updates include links to the dispensary and a banner for Zazzz being live. Ground broken, earth shattered. And why is Herbal Elements, the first home to Zazzz, not listed on the Zazzz site??? Anyone?
Seriously AG, get your sh!t together. Get a dispensary to do a real Zazzz promotional launch.
Spend some money to publicize Zazzz to local patients of dispensaries and maybe for a week, offer discounts on products in the machine. This would kill 2 birds with 1 stone, actually it would kill a few more too. Not only would it generate sales (bird 1), it would generate interest (bird 2), but most important educate customers on how to purchase MJ via Zazzz (bird 3). AG also needs to work with dispensaries to develop a Zazzz loyalty card. Dispensaries in LA offer loyalty cards and after spending a certain amount customers get $60 off a purchase or a gratuitous item of their choice or whatever.
And the ExhaleMedCenter Zazzz still has yet to event be delivered. My hope is the machine comes pre-loaded with software and is just plugged in as Stephen has suggested AG is working toward that with new machines. So another month goes by between the announcement of a machine placement and the actual use.
Frustrating to say the least
No Herbal Elements on Zazzznetwork.com?
Anyone know why?
That's Way Off
If revenues were $1/shares as you liberal estimate accounts for (20k*215k=4.3b), ERBB would be WAAAAAAAAAAAAY more than 1.00 per share. $4.3b in revenue would be more like $10 per share
Obviously it's not remotely possible to have that many machines.
But at $20k per Zazzz machine And 500 Zazzz machines that's $10m per year. If you break it down, that's only about $55/day from a machine at 500 machines. Even at 250 machines it's $5m annually.
You Son of a......
Thanks for the laugh PS55.
I sure hope I'm never responsible for ERBB trading lower. My hope is that we can develop a strong shareholder base for ERBB and "weed" out the chaff, so when the stock moves in either direction, we can reasonably discuss the movement and what may be to come.
"It's nobody's fault, stocks go up and stocks go down"
Absolutely true. Nobody should be blaming anyone for pps movement. The goal is to find reason as to why ERBB has traded the way it has.
Non Sequitir but Thanks
I'm a holder there too and am well aware of the situation by I don't care because that's not what is being discussed. What I do care about is ERBB and being called an idiot for being correct by those who are dead wrong. Once again, instead of owning up to being wrong about AG "not issuing shares for services", the conversation is switched to some irrelevant aternative.
And how's ERBB doing today? Who's fault is it that ERBB is dropping today, MMs, ISIS, Scientology.....?
I've Been Seeing The AG Ads a Bunch
I figured it was just because of my bookmarks or search history but it's good to hear others are seeing it too. That's AG spending money on marketing. Great to see except that most of us are pretty we versed in AG sites and apparel.
No I Dont Agree
Not at all. It's funny cause you've now switched the discussion from "AG does not issue shares for services" to supposing they do. They do.
But when a debenture holder or good/service provider take ERBB shares in lieu of cash, that's income and it's GOOD for their business. How do you not understand that selling some of those ERBB shares to recoup business expenses has ABSOLUELY NOTHING TO DO WITH SENTIMENTS?
The sellers ARE NOT selling because they think American Green is going to fail, this isn't a bull or bear situation. THEY SELL DUE TO NECESSITY. These goods and service providers are NOT investors who buy and hold with discretionary monies. These businesses have financial obligations like payroll, rent, cost of goods...I don't know how I can explain this any further or more simply. That's not to say the company may go bankrupt if they don't convert shares but it would be a really stupid business practice to take alternative financing and not use some of it to cover expenditures.
Back to the gold analogy. You dig a ditch, you got a job. Great. You get paid with some gold coins. Awesome. You're hungry, while you like the shiny coins, you need cash for groceries. So you swap some coins for cash but keep a few coins in the kitty, get some food and things are looking good.
I'm NOT "bashing" ERBB. You're misinterpreting what I'm saying or how business works.
Read ERBB's Financial Reports
"Shares issued for services"
"Shares issued for vending design"
"Shares issued for acquisitions"
It's right there in the latest annual report. American Green ABSOLUTELY DID AND DOES ISSUE SHARE TO PAY FOR GOODS AND SERVICES. Those are your sellers along with debenture holders. Who do you think are ERBB debenture holders? Banks and institutions. No. High net worth investors who don't make money by just giving away money.
If you don't like orange analogy then try taking payment in gold coins. How will you buy groceries when you get hungry? Probably not by taking the coins to the supermarket.
Did MMs "stop" the Run in Early 2014
You have got to stop acting as if MMs are preventing a massive "run" in ERBB. You're acting as if AG is making millions in revenues, as if Zazzz is printing cash and OGTea has replaced MiracleGro but these dastardly MMs are just not allowing the exchange of shares. Its making you look like a paranoid, us v them crazy person.
MMs are not trying to "stop" a run because high volume is their goldmine. MMs make money on the spread but penny stock spreads are so ridiculously low that the only way to really capitalize is from large volumes. During a big run like early 2014 when ERBB was trading in 100m shares daily, the MMs were making a killing. How can you seriously argue they don't want to repeat that?
You're correct that market cap and share structure don't mean squat. Some companies in the NAZ trade at 2000x their p/e and haven't made a profit in 2 decades (I'm looking at you online bookseller named after a river in South America) or that stupid webpage where people put a full profile of themselves but the company cannot monetize their 1b user base, making barely $2b in profit annually yet the company is worth $200b
My Last Words on Debentures and MMs (Hopefully)
I think there has been a lot of confusion in regards to my position on MMs, debentures and American Green overall. I'd like to make a closing statement that will hopefully put to rest some of the contention around these issues.
First, let me reaffirm that in no way am I short ERBB, nor any of my other MJ penny plays for that matter. The process it takes for me to clear a penny short with my broker is not worth the time or the risk. Additionally, IMO shorting penny stocks is too risky and a move for degenerate gamblers. Finally, you'd have to be an idiot to be shorting at the 52-week low unless there is clear evidence that the company/market is going to fail, ie KKD back in early 2000 or any stock during late 2007. I prefer shorting via derivatives and clearly the penny plays do not offer options or alternative trading vehicles.
Moving on to MMs.....never once have I denied the games MMs play to keep markets liquid while making money moving shares. High-frequency trading, front loading, false orders.....and so much more. This activity is part of every single exchange from pennies to the Big Board. The position I am trying to convey is that MMs are NOT to blame for ERBB's horrendous performance and I'm tired of hearing people use them as scapegoats for AG's failures. Stop externalizing the blame. This is a classic example of Freudian psychology. To use an analogy it's like a car accident; when other people crash, you often say it's cause they were speeding or they were bad drivers, but when you crash it was because the road was wet or some other circumstance beyond your control. MMs are not the right ones to blame here. Like I have said before, if AG had 500 Zazzz machines operating (50% of the CEO's own projection for end of 2014), and the earnings report reflected exponential grow in certain divisions (as was recently PRed), then ERBB would like not be at .01
Now to address debentures......oh where to begin. First of all, I don't think many here truly understand debentures. People this a way to arrange for payment by other means than cold hard cash. WHY IS IT SO DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE TO GRASP THAT DEBENTURE HOLDERS MUST SELL SHARES IN ORDER TO COVER THEIR OWN CAPITAL EXPENDITURES? For the last time, I'm NOT saying debenture holders are bailing or cashing out because they think ERBB is going to zero/bankruptcy. I'm saying the makers of Zazzz who were paid in shares, absolutely MUST raise capital to pay for the cost of manufacturing the machines and how do you propose they do so if they haven't been given liquid cash to do so? This is business 101 people. Look if I hired you to dig a ditch but only gave you oranges and you needed to pay for the shovel you used to dig, would you ask the hardware guy if he'll take some oranges. No, you'd try to sell enough oranges to cover the shovel. Once the shovel is covered then maybe you hang on to a few oranges for yourself but you have to cover capital expenditures.
That's all I'm saying; that MMs are not the bogeyman responsible for ERBBs downtrend from .11 to .01 and debenture holders sell in order to meet their own financial obligations. Some here have taken this message WAAAAY to personally and I'm shocked some even demand an apology after some incredibly vulgar behavior. i don't post here with an agenda like the 420investor or Wolf of Weinerville becuase I'm not here to gather a flock for fleecing. I just want to offer my opinion in the same way I did with @APL in 2003. You may not agree with me but I'm not trying to make friends, I'm trying to make money being objective and calculated
To Your Points by Paragraph
It's not like AG did a one off issuing the debentures. The debentures have been issued to various parties over the past few years. Therefore it's not like there is a set time period when suddenly loads of shares became unrestricted which lead to a fury of selling.
The money exchanged for debentures certainly does not come from "venture capitalists." The debentures are issued to companies like th Zazzz machine manufacturer, or Tomassi for the patents, or OGTea for the acquisition and so forth. The shares are in exchange for cash and many of these debenture holders have hard costs to recover. VDW needs to pay for employees and materials for constructing Zazzz machines and selling shares is the way to cover those capital expenditures. Same for OGTea that has to package, ship, market, sell the product, all hard costs that need cash to pay for.
Your comments are far from off base and always appreciated as part of a dialog.
To the "lower volume share dumps", perhaps as Shearin said the debenture holders are "friendlies" and are merely being courteous in their selling, knowing that dumping could cause a major drop, something the debentures holders would suffer from as well. I'm sure many of these debenture holders want the pps back at .10 just as much as long shareholders do but reality dictates they have to sell shares to raise capital to cover expenses. I'm haven't been trying to suggest debenture holders are just plain "dumping" shares to bail and they don't think ERBB will succeed. To the contrary, they may be reluctantly selling but as I've said, it's done from necessity.
I highly doubt many, if any retail holders here have positions higher than 50m shares at the absolute max. Even at the November 2013 lows, a 50m share purchase would be a $75,000 position which is pretty rich for this market. Besides, AG has issued 180,000,000 shares for $60,000 worth of debt so buying $60,000 on the open market for just 50m shares would make little sense. I own quite a large position and from reading this board, I'm pretty sure I'm one of the larger holders here, which isn't saying much. A few months back there was a joker posting about owning 400m ERBB shares bought at the Nov 13 lows, which was utterly laughable.
A buyback would be great but obviously that's not going to happen until AG makes some money. It is reassuring to hear Shearin confidently state there will be not r/s because it puts to rest some of the ridiculous FUD spread by some. Unfortunately, if ERBB doesn't fet their act together, financing options are limited and that's when the things get dicey. My hope is AG can get airborne before coming arriving at the end of the runway.
Electric Cigs Exploding - VAPE Doesn't Have That Problem
Yet another story of an e-cig battery exploding, this time in LA. One of the pieces was ejected with such force it stuck into the ceiling!
Obviously since Hive products do not require battery power for heat this should not be an issue and would hopefully make Hive products a more attractive means for consumption.
Oh Lots of Money Made by Many Parties
When ERBB dropped from .11 to .01 you bet shorts, debenture holders AND MMs made a mint. If I had easy access to shorting I would have made a killing too as a way to hedge against the parabolic rise. Despite the shade thrown at me, I've only once shorted a penny stock, MJN@ from .47 to the mid-.20s back in early 2013 and it wasn't worth the hassle to clear the trade with my broker. I wouldn't short a penny because the upside risk is way too high considering the stock can move 300% intraday.
But hell yeah shorts made a killing. I'm sure some short players we averaging up during the 2014 bull run and I'm sure others piled on as it went down. Either way, money was made and a lot of it. But right now shorts are small fish nibbling at the ERBBeluga because smart short players don't short 52-week lows.
And double hell yeah to debenture holders made serious money. They were granted shares at prices half of the 52-week low in previous years and saw the pps jump over 10,000% for some. I doubt many debenture holder had the trading acumen or the unrestricted ability to sell at the highs, so as the pps eroded, they were quick to sell and recover capital expenditures.
Finally, a triple hell yeah that MMs made money. During the 2014 highs 100m share days were pretty common and the daily volume averaged over 50m shares traded. The MMs made a killing off the liquidity. But MMs always make money, whether the stock goes up or down.
The example of 100m shares traded in a day with 70m sells and 30m buys doesn't properly address the issue. Some of those buys are shorts covering and some of the sells are new short positions changing hands along with buys to open and sells to close. It's not as simple as subtracting 70 from 30 and asking where the remaining 40 number fits in. The goal of MMs is to be as liquid as possible, moving shares in an orderly manner and above all holding as few shares at close each day. These guys don't want to get caught holding volume when a buying or selling frenzy occurs.
I really hope people don't think I am trying to disparage ERBB. Of all the hucksters involved in the MJ market, I truly believe AG can become a viable company. At this point I certainly don't believe ERBB is a share selling scam. I'm not getting worked up about the a/s or o/s counts becuase that's the reality of financing in penny stocks. In fact many non-MJ stocks have similar share counts but unlike ERBB, those non-MJ players DO have access for traditional financing.
I'm critical of AG because of the operational failures, delays and simple shenanigans. I could give a rats ass that Shearin isn't a polished stiff in a suit and actually think he fits his role well. What I can't stand is a "stoner" mentality that makes up long-winded excuses for the fails. Pioneers will stumble but too many missteps and that leader will eventually step into trouble that may not be recoverable.
That's A Little Too Simplified
PennyStomper it doesn't work like that. First of all MMs are middle men. They are like a warehouse and keeping inventory on the shelf limits profit, doesn't keep the MM liquid and brings on undue risk. Therefore, the MMs business is to move shares as quickly as possible so they do not hold for weeks or even days. They hold for milliseconds. Of course in thinly traded penny stocks, the holding period may be a little longer but we're still talking minutes or even hours at most.
MMs don't hold billions of shares as you have suggested. The billions of shares that have traded over the past months are just changing hands between traders and investors and insiders and debenture holders. I'd estimate around 2b+ shares are held by debenture holders and maybe half of that has been dumped over the past 9 months. Those shares are circulated in the float between traders and investors NOT held by an MM. Look at the historical trades, several billions shares are traded per month.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=ERBB+Historical+Prices
My guess is insiders hold about 500m-1b shares, debenture holders around 2-2.5b and the remaining 2b shares are circulated amongst traders and investors.
It wasn't MMs who ran ERBB up or brought it down.
That Would Be HUGE. EPIC
If the hypocrisy of MJ prohibition is finally disbanded and institutions are free to legally invest in the MJ market, it could be absolutely epic. ERBB has enormous potential to be an attractive investment or even takeover candidate. The institutional capital infusion could be so massive it would make the internet bubble look like a fish fart.
And that's why I'm in ERBB. Currently my fear is that once the investment ban is lifted for institutions, AG will not be fully operational and will not be an attractive target. But I don't even know if that will matter because there will be such an onslaught of capital being brought to the MJ market.
Finally, as for the MMs buying low and selling high, it just doesn't work that way. MMs DO NOT hold positions for long terms. They are designed to quickly hold and move shares and theirs compensation is based on their ability to move stocks, ideally in large volumes. That's why these MMs are reticent to stop high-frequency trading because they make a killing off moving the numerous high volume positions despite the fractional penny spread between buys and sells. If MMs get greedy (read stupid) by holding positions to wait for better prices, the trader will simply go to another exchange.
There are so many misconceptions and connection about MMs here it is comical. It's akin to listening to teens talk about strip clubs without ever setting foot in one.