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Dutchess
Paul said: "Seems to me like the shares just keep coming from Dutchess and company, and when's that going to stop?"
As I have said many times before expressing my opinion on the Dutchess deal since was signed it is a deal with the devil as far as dilution is concerned...
Take care
David
Not a thing you can do - the company is on the OTCBB. Bottom line if there was buying pressure the price would be going up and it is going down because many are selling due to lack of performance of the company, losses, lack of sales, and poor financials IMHO.
Greg
You must admit the chart looks ugly and it tells the story...
Take care
Greg
Market makers have dropped the price from $.40 in January to $.13 in June because there are many more sellers than buyers.
There is no conspiracy and market makers are not looking to get cheap shares they facilitate the transactions...
Take care
Paul
Thank you for the clarification and we are in agreement. It does make sense Kelly did not personally guarantee with his law background and not risk personal/family assets. I work in corporate finance and have seen many small companies fail their CEO's/officers who personally guarantee lose it all along with their family lives and it becomes very sad indeed.
Paul
You said: "BC, forget about the risk involved; investors should look favorably upon a manager that personally guaranteed company debt. It means he believes enough to put his own a** on the line."
I read it, absorbed it and comprehended it maybe I just do it faster than you think I did - no hurry. I think it is a last resort arrangement.
I said - they only do because they have to not because they want to. I also think "skin in the game" is when the ceo/officers take little or no salary and expect the stock to be their reward.
Investors can look favorably all they want but I for one wouldn't want to be the one on the hook with THIS company or ANY company and I am sure you wouldn't either.
Paul
You're wrong on this one but I am sure you will not admit it.
I stand by my statement - Personally guaranteeing corporatate debt is THE LAST thing a CEO or president wants to do. Faith or no faith - Sh*T happens, unforseen events, technology changes and businesses fail.
The corporate shield avoids creditors from going after the principals
Trout/Greg
I think it also means they will be selling the shares as well -from "time to time" - from the filing as well:
Selling Shareholders
The following table presents information regarding the selling shareholders. None of the selling shareholders has held a position or office, or had any other material relationship, with us.
Selling Security Holder
Shares Beneficially Owned Before Offering
Percentage of Outstanding Shares Beneficially Owned Before Offering
Shares to be Sold in Offering
Percentage of Outstanding Shares Beneficially Owned After Offering
Dutchess Private Equities Fund, II L.P. (1)(2)
4,530,000
6.9%
4,530,000
-
Dutchess Private Equities Fund L.P. (2)(3)
3,020,000
4.7%
3,020,000
-
Gary Cella
200,000
0.3%
75,000
0.1%
Fool
That may be true but the plans of mice and men do not always turn out and he may be saying "it sounded good at the time".
Personally guaranteeing corporate debt is the LAST thing a CEO or president wants to do. He is no longer covered by the corporate shield and therefore can lose personal assets ie house, personal investment accounts etc.
It was probably the only option a bank or lending institution would lend funds to VTSI based on the awful balance sheet and sales. Negative cash flow and negative net worth...
IMHO
From the SB2:
Sounds like Kelly has personally guaranteed some of the company debt and in my opinion based on their inability or unwillingness to pay previous debt that may be one of the top options for future financing. Note the burn rate of $120K per month!!!! Ouch - with negative cash flow and limited sales that means more sales of the company's only real asset - their stock meaning even more dilution IMHO
Read it - as I stated previously SEC filings are the real truth of a company
"We cannot predict our future capital needs and we may not be able to secure additional financing.
We estimate our current "burn rate" -- the amount necessary to sustain our operations -- at approximately $120,000 per month, or $1,440,000 per year. To fully implement our current business plan, we will likely need to raise additional funds within the next 12 months in order to fund the operations of the company. We expect that the majority of these funds will come from institutional financing calling for advances against the proceeds of purchase order contracts we receive. However, if we are unable to obtain contract financing, we will need to seek financing from other sources. If we raise funds through other sources, such as convertible preferred stock or debentures you may experience significant dilution of your ownership interest, and these securities may have rights senior to the rights of common shareholders. If additional financing is not available when required or is not available on acceptable terms, we may be unable to fund continuing operations, develop our products, or take advantage of business opportunities or respond to competitive pressures, any of which could harm our business.
Our past inability to pay our debts as they come due may make it difficult or impossible to obtain a bank loan in the absence of security arrangements and/or personal guarantees from management.
We have outstanding substantial amounts on promissory notes and convertible promissory notes that we are contesting or that we have been unable to pay. Collection on some of these notes is barred by the statute of limitations. However, our history of non-payment may make it difficult for us to get future bank financing for our operations on an unsecured basis or without personal guarantees from our officers. We currently have two bank loans which are secured by real estate or equipment. Our president has guaranteed these loans, but we cannot give any assurance that he will remain willing to guarantee future obligations. While we believe that financing of our expected purchase orders will be available on a secured basis, we cannot give any assurance that this is the case. We may not be able to borrow enough to carry out our business plan if bank financing is not available."
Single digits soon it appears - looks like a good sell point would have been the $.30's like many of the people no longer posting did...
Doug
Revenue for Q1 was $166K - cost of sales was $133K on the $166K. The G&A expenses for Q1 was $421K.
My question is does anyone know what the sales breakeven point for VTSI is?
You said: "Last month there were 2 sales PR's and 1 installation PR's." Does anyone know what how much revenue this will be for Q2 so far?
What do you expect the revenue for Q2 to be?
The reason the price is going down is expectations as outlined by the CEO in prior calls and PRs are NOT being met and therefore shareholders and former leaseholders are equating that to more losses, and more dilution of the stock. More dilution means it will be harder and harder for the price to appreciate if the sales eventually do occur.
Fool
That's why it is so quiet - everytime the company has had a sale they have issued a PR. No sales - no PR's ....
Sure is Quiet!!!!
The quiet before the storm - buying opportunity - I believe in Kelly - Kelly is the most communicative CEO on the planet - anymore phrases????
It's funny all the cheerleaders aren't here now. Weo, Weeble, Gemmerling, Headnorthnow, etc
Hound is almost ready to buy another 100K - to allow Dutchess and others to bail??? The faithful buy as the ones in the know get out before single digits hit - IMHO
Question how is the company paying bills? Are they also the sellers as the stock is their only asset to obtain working capital?
Q2 over in 3 weeks - yup sure is quiet....
Fool
Your perseverence and faith is admirable.
I have taken a quick look at NVDA and with all due respect VTSI is no NVDA.... all numbers in thousands that means add 3 zeros to the numbers in the Balance Sheet and Income Statement
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=NVDA&annual
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=NVDA&annual
Fool
Do these sound familiar?
Don't you feel betrayed? Weeble Wooble is gone, Headnorth is gone but Greg and Domen is still here. It would be different if the sales were there but no more excuses can be accepted IMO.
Kelly time for an update for the shareholders?????
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=3819431
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=3819405
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=3819402
Fool
So if stock prices are based on the future which I agree with then why is the trend down from $.40 to $.15?
If I recall KJ gave his estimate in 12/03 for 2004:
Revenue $6.5M
Net Inc $1.5M
Why should anyone believe now with 2005 bringing very little revenue to date? His credibility is very much at issue IMHO...
I think the company is cash poor and the Dutchess deal printing more stock for working capital only makes it worse. The company's only real asset is their stock and as the price goes down it gets tougher...
Fool
Q1 was a bust - little or no revenue
Q2 4 weeks left and little or no revenue
Higher expenses in 2005 with higher fixed costs and salaries which equates to more losses
If the big sales were there then there would be "rumors" to stem the tide...
The chart does not lie:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=VTSI.OB&t=6m
Just my humble opinion
Smith
A price of $.15 means people in the know feel the company is not in as good a position versus when the stock was valued at $.40 in January...
$.15 X $.18
Looks like another buying opportunity for the faithful as Dutchess sells into any buying so they do not lose $$$ IMO
Paul
Please post the link
Thank you
David
As I have said many times before the Dutchess $ deal is NOT shareholder friendly. They are in the business to make $ and as the price falls they will sell to lock in their profits.
And the Dilution continues 7.5M shares is alot of stock to chew through....
Doug
Q2 is 2/3 of the way complete with 30 days to go and no real sales to date. The company issues a PR with every sale and it sure has been quiet. In addition with the large Mexico deal being "delayed a year or so" or in reality very much in doubt it does not look good.
Kelly is on record the company will have it's first operational profit by Q3 or the quarter ending 9/30.
Doug "overnight success" - I guess you define overnight in years and years...
VTSI may not be going away but it gets harder and harder with the stock share issuance and continued dilution - reverse split on the horizion?
Take care
Trout OT
You said: "like having your beans above your frank..."
That is a painful visual - if you saw the movie "Something about Mary" with Cameron Diaz and Ben Stiller
Greg
"Virtra Received a Purchase order for the Mexico deal" - just because a purchase order is received that does not make it a sale and the terms or issues must have changed.
The rules for revenue recognition are very complex and my guess is the PO contained a number of contingencies.
Obviously the "near-term delivery" aspect of the PO has changed due one or more of the contingencies
Doug
I quoted from Paul but I work for software company and if we got a committment for software in 10/4/04 that got delayed until 9/05 yes it would still be on the backlog. We categorize our revenue backlog based on the % of closure and this one seems to have fallen to a low probability IMO. As a matter of fact there would be no press release on letter of intent business until the order was firmer and shipped and revenue could be recognized so the "egg on the face" does not occur as in this case.
With the stricter laws the wording of the PR is interesting and I am surprised there was not a correction "VirTra Systems Sells 15 Simulators to Mexican Government - VirTra Systems recently received the purchase order for 15, and as many as 20, systems for near-term delivery to Mexican governmental agencies. The transaction, worth a minimum $1.7 million, is the largest sale in the company's history."
It is a major issue when the largest order to date is delayed almost a year for this company. If it has been delayed this long can you feel very comfortable about a fall close? Kelly has bought another 5 months but if this PR gets a birthday 10/4/05 - it would not look good. Agree?
All IMHO
Question?
Instead of an email to an individual shareholder from the CEO advising the press release dated 10/4/04 where VirTra Systems Sells 15 Simulators to Mexican Government has been delayed shouldn't there be a press release advising the public of the news? $1.7M in revenue is very significant for this small company IMO
I guess that is where the "forward looking statement" kicks in...
http://www.virtrasystems.com/pr_press_release.cfm?press_id=2&archive=none
VirTra Systems Sells 15 Simulators to Mexican Government
October 4, 2004
Arlington, TX - October 4, 2004 - VirTra Systems, Inc. (OTCBB: VTSI) today announced receipt of an order for a minimum of 15 IVR-300™ HD 360-degree, high-definition firearms training systems for use by Mexican governmental agencies.
VirTra Systems recently received the purchase order for 15, and as many as 20, systems for near-term delivery to Mexican governmental agencies. The transaction, worth a minimum $1.7 million, is the largest sale in the company's history.
"This first million dollar-plus order was awarded the company as a direct result of our superior product line, the IVR™ HD series," commented Michael Kitchen, VirTra Systems' vice-president of training and simulation. "We are becoming the de facto industry standard, offering technological superiority, low maintenance, and lifesaving 360-degree immersion -- all in high-definition resolution."
Luis E. Rodriguez Galindo, managing director of Lonexi, S.A. de C.V., VirTra Systems' Mexican distributor, commented, "After installation of the first VirTra Systems simulator in Mexico earlier this year, reviewing feedback from our Mexican customers, it was inevitable that Mexican officials would prefer the IVR™ HD series in their facilities. Future sales will continue, as we believe other agencies will specifically request this superior product line to train troops and law-enforcement personnel in Mexico."
VirTra Systems produces the industry's only line of immersive 360-degree firearms training simulators in high-definition resolution, used by law-enforcement and military agencies for anti-terrorist, Homeland Security, use-of-force, situational awareness, marksmanship, and 4G squad-based training.
About VirTra Systems
VirTra Systems utilizes patented technology to manufacture the world's most advanced immersive virtual reality™ systems and 3-D experiences. VirTra Systems markets combat, marksmanship, and situational awareness/judgmental firearms training systems to military agencies such as the U.S. Air Force and the U.S. Army, and to national and international law enforcement agencies. Using the sensations of motion, touch, sound, and smell, the company also produces custom advertising and promotional virtual reality systems for clients such as Buick, Chevrolet, Pennzoil, Red Baron™ Pizza, and the U.S. Army. For more information, visit the corporate website at www.virtrasystems.com, or the training/simulation website at www.virtratraining.com.
This press release contains certain forward-looking statements. Forward-looking statements are generally preceded by the words such as "plans," "expects," "believes," "anticipates," or "intends." Investors are cautioned that all forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from current expectations. VirTra Systems urges investors to review in detail the risks and uncertainties contained within its filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Word of the Day OT
Dilatory - now that is not a word you hear every. Kelly using that law degree for us....lol
DILATORY - That which is intended for delay. It is a maxim that delays in law are odious.
DILATORY DEFENCE - A dilatory defence is one, the object of which is to dismiss, suspend, or obstruct the suit, without touching the merits, until the impediment or obstacle insisted on shall be removed.
Greg
You said:"This is a very positive statement by Kelly." '2005 will be the year that we turn the 2004 efforts into shareholder value.'
It's the boilerplate on all messages every CEO sends and Kelly has sent for the last 5 years - I know I know your just trying to find something positive to post...
This is not so positive:
"Regarding our Mexico deal, we have found that Mexico is no different than any other country when dealing with the government. The short answer to your inquiry is that our Mexican representative advises that the deal has been delayed until the fall."
As Paul stated: "For those of you keeping a running total of the backlog, it sounds like you can subtract about $1.7 million."
Trout
Trout you said:"I don't see where OTC journal has ever done SQUAT for Virtra."
OTC Journal - Market Byte has done much TO the shareholders IMO - reduce the cash position and increase the float and dilution.
Partial VTSI Insider transaction list below:
INSIDER & RULE 144 TRANSACTIONS REPORTED - LAST TWO YEARS
Date Insider Shares Transaction Value*
8-Nov-04 MARKET BYTE LLC
99,474 Planned Sale $160,0001
28-Jul-04 CELLA, GARY
50,000 Planned Sale $17,0001
20-Jul-04 MARKET BYTE LLC
500,000 Planned Sale $180,0001
20-Jul-04 MARKETBYTE LLC
100,000 Planned Sale
Market Byte - OTC Journal
$25,000 and a million shares usually buys "company friendly" coverage - lol
From the OTC Journal site:
Virtra Systems, Inc.
Coverage Period: July 15, 2003 - July 15, 2005
Company Symbol: VTSI
Compensation: MarketByte LLC has been paid a fee of $25,000 in cash and one million newly issued restricted shares by Virtra Systems for coverage of the company.
Nano
Agreed - I live in New England and Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun are massive and doing VERY WELL...
Good for them
Troutman
Nah RB is for spam and cheerleaders - mostly facts are posted here - just trying to contribute to the discussion...
Paul
No matter how they slice it - the latest news is another setback and the koolaid drinkers are like the indians with bows an arrows going against the cavalry with gattling guns.
No ammunition and very little hope unless the indians are given machine guns...
NO CASH!!!!
A review of the balance sheet as of 3/31
Cash balance - $0
Book Overdraft $52,064
Negative cash flow continues - working capital will come from one source IMO - the company's only real asset stock which equates to Dilution - Dilution - Dilution.
Current Assets $216K
Current Liabilities $5M
This is after the great debt reduction in December - positive cash flow needed very soon.
Reverse stock split in the future???
Take care
Company Misses Targets Again
No matter how anyone spins it VTSI - Kelly Jones has missed their revenue and profit targets again. Weeble - Evansup etc no one can defend this missed target - all eggs in the Federal budget - no other items in the sales pipeline?
The positive occurences in the quarter "we conducted an unprecedented number of product demonstrations" - basically nothing to report - Kelly's continued promises turn into next qtr - then next qtr - then next qtr - as they say - do not pay attn the man behind behind the curtain...
Revenue $166K so much for the alleged positive momentum from 2004
Loss ($800K) - Ugly very Ugly
David
Not really - only 5 postings in 3 weeks lol - looking forward to the SEC filing.
Good luck and take care.
Paul
Early? The audited 12/31 filing was going to be early on 2/28 and ended up being filed 3/22.
Qtrs 1, 2 and 3 are needed 45 days from end of qtr so 5/15 is when it is due. These are unaudited - shouldn't be too tough as little or no sales are expected as there were very limited PR's
Paul
The sad thing is the future date eventually becomes today's date and the rubber meets the road but smooth talkers seem to continue to "buy" more time.
Kelly's track record speaks for itself...
Paul
And it appears all the company eggs or revenue potential is in the US Govt basket with no other pipeline or backlog to fall back on...
Paul
Best response yet - Dutchess - the deal with the devil IMO as I have stated for the last few years...