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I don't see them delaying an M&A for 3 years but I am sure they will drag this out as long as possible. What we as "retail" need to remember is that these funds are not our buddies, they don't care for us and may even resent the fact that we are even here waiting to ride their coat tails. Every share that we control is $$ not in their pockets and with the "wolf of wallstreet" psyche of these money types, I have no doubt that making us $$ in a timely fashion is not one of their concerns.....AIMHO.
I as well as others here are truly more than curious to hear "YOUR THEORY" as to what will be the final outcome of this case regarding all parties involved. This would be far more enlightening than your usual posts whose sole purpose seems to be the "trolling" of others opinions. Take your time....no rush.
As chairman of the WMIHC board M. Willingham represented shareholders interests period, not solely "retail" interests in WMIHC but all shareholders, which is totally separate from his WMILT duties. What should be focused on is what schemes, if any, could a "Hedge" controlled board devise to eliminate "retail" shareholders from the company while protecting the NOL value. This process, IMO has already been put into motion ie the current stagnant state (3+ years) of the company, the purpose of which I believe is to frustrate as many shareholders out of WMIHC as possible before any major developments occur.
If this were only true what a sight it would be....who knows!
Well from the article posted by clawmann apparently it wasn't as we thought.
Wasn't this all resolved with the employees dropping their golden parachute claims and "releasing" WMILT/WMIHC a couple weeks ago?
WAMU's fate was sealed once JPM decided they wanted the bank. My post was just a response to a ridiculous claim.
Email sent to Sheila "boo" Bair (FDIC/OTS) by WAMU management the day before seizure. Enjoy!!!
http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/WSJ-WAMU-Responsive-e-mails092810.pdf
I am 100% sure retail does not hold the majority of the PQ's and KQ's and these are being held by the Hedgies. Not to mention the TPS group also is in the escrow mix.
Your comparison of AIG and WAMU makes no sense. WAMU paid their creditors and never had to receive a "bailout" from the Gov't. Nothing was received by shareholders because without the billions pumped into AIG to prevent even greater losses to the financial sector, they would have failed and obviously no return would be forthcoming anyway to the shareholders.
That point is moot.
Let me explain as simply as possible. You believe the assets are not there to pay those claims and escrows via WMI and or WMB assets in the receivership that were legally and illegally seized or are being hidden and I have the opposite viewpoint.
Now which is the true Unicorn theory? The day before the seizure WAMU executives laid out a plan to "over" capitalize the bank to the tune of $19 Billion which would have seen it become the 3rd best capitalized bank in the USA....HUH!!!
But alas I can already predict at least one of the responses....they were lying to "Sheila Bear" et al to buy more time.... right?
Let's not go down this much travelled road again. If you haven't noticed, both camps are "dug in deep" into their respective positions and aren't budging, so any attempt to convince either party of changing their position is futile. BTW I am almost 100% sure the FDIC will exert it's full influence (Gov't backed) to settle for an amount that they are most comfortable with since Deutsche's hands are just as dirty as everyone else's.
Please correct me if i am mistaken.....
The WMI estate paid out approximately $7 Billion to satisfy creditors, of which $3-4 Billion originated from the IRS in the form of tax returns. These returns were not assets on WMI's books at bankruptcy but were garnered some time after, so are we saying that a bank of this size which was servicing over $600 Billion in loans and possessed such a VAST array of assets was only worth/possessed the remaining $3-4 Billion needed to pay off the creditors???
The only liens against the Receivership that concern me are the Bondholders and the recently added Deutsche $10 Billion claim. Not sure how much exactly the bonds are owed but i know it's alot but IMO the Deutsche claim will be settled for $3-5 Billion.
I say this because...(1) most "professionals" familiar with the case have said as much (note: this was prior to judge Collyer's ruling) and (2) Deutsche Bank are currently being sued by several US agencies for their part in the fraudulent activity that occured pre and post the 2008 recession.
I believe that the court holding the FDIC (US Gov't backed agency) liable for these claims was the best option. I say this because holding the FDIC liable for the Deutsche claims and that Deutsche are currently on the hook for billions due to their part in other frauds perpetrated, great influence can be exerted on Deutsche to "play ball" and come to an amicable agreement with the FDIC.
"(a) Except as provided in subsection (c) or (d) of this section, an entity, other than a custodian, in possession, custody, or control, during the case, of property that the trustee may use, sell, or lease under section 363 of this title, or that the debtor may exempt under section 522 of this title,shall deliver to the trustee, and account for, such property or the value of such property, unless such property is of inconsequential value or benefit to the estate. " . " Turnover of property."
More fuel added to the pro vs con ESC. fire?
From your post a couple weeks ago(2015/06/02)....."Now with recent developments such as the filing giving WMILT/WMIH releases from all key players last night, tells me someone purposely was holding up plans for WMIH's business plan announcement".
What was that about (text in red)???
Aurelius, Appoloosa, Owl Creek and Centerbridge. The vulture hedge funds that wanted the reorganized WMIH for themselves.
Let's clear one point up....WAMU was "NEVER" bankrupt but suffered from a temporary illiquidity crisis so the Chap.11 filing was coersed rather that a necessity. There was a plan put forth prior to seizure that would have seen up to $30 Billion being pumped into WMB over a period to help stabilize the bank's operations.
As for my statement, it was not meant to be taken literally but as an indication of my belief that JPM did not purchase 100% of WAMU for that paltry sum ie we are going to be remunerated at some point.
A 100 year old institution does not get sold for a meager $1.9 Billion.
I find these documents somewhat a tedious read since depending on the complexity of the case as in this one, it appears that the authors purposely made it as convoluted as possible. I have read the relevant sections where it clearly states that the FDIC/Receivership etc are "NOT" released by all (unnamed) parties yet there are those who come away with a totally opposite interpretation.
I am also very interested in the tacit relationship between WMIHC and WMILT regarding WMIIC and the sole purpose for this IMO would be for a future business partnership. WMIIC IMO would be the vehicle within which any illiquid "assets" returned to the LT could be held/managed for the benefit of both parties with WMIHC's documented 100% equity interest ensuring that there is no ambiguity regarding ownership of this subsidiary.
If the assets were mortgages i do not believe that they were sold but most likely are still with JPM being serviced. Since they were WMI's property they could/should not have been seized in the first place.
Interesting line of thought thony, which could be further expounded upon "if" we could determine....
(1) What were the details of the operations.../assets owned by WMIIC prior to the seizure?.
(2) What effect did the actions of the FDIC have upon these assets upon seizure ie ownership issues/disputes/sale?.
(3) What became of the said assets of WMIIC and what are their current values?.
These are just a few of the many questions that are left unanswered by this case and until this IMO intentional obscurity on the part of the authors of the GSA/POR V.7 is fully deciphered, i stand firmly behind my assertions pertaining to escrows.
Fear nor fellow unicorns....it's only Knower that here so far. We should start getting worried when his two siblings turn up also. When Knower, Knows and Knothing show up, then be worried.
I do find it so amusing that with so many, at times strange and unexpected developments taking place so close together that some here still attempt to deride others and their opinions. All these occurrences, in quick order that removes the remaining encumbrances upon the estate on the cusp of when we are expecting MAJOR announcements from WMIHC does seem a bit too coincidental. It has been very apparent to me and many others for a long time that both WMIHC and WMILT are in some way inextricably linked and the exact details of this relationship will soon be revealed. To those who continue to "yammer" in an attempt portray themselves as relevant, all I can say is.... "please do continue"....
I've been playing this "game" a long time now and I can assure you....something's coming. I can't say how much but it's definitely coming to WMIH, Escrows or BOTH.
Once a valid claim was made against the WMI estate before the POR was signed by JMW then those amounts would have been set aside for payment. You are correct, if the original amounts claimed, $19 or $46 million(whatever amount) then that's what will be available for distribution once those claims are finally expunged.
Thanks so much for the "REAL STORY" Dr. Yellen....we now have all the answers courtesy of you.
Post# 423782 on 20/05/2015....made amid the run up to $3.00+ and the accompanying hoopla.
"Be wary of these spikes on no real info gents. Do not allow yourselves to increase your cost basis above $2.25 or anywhere close for that matter. I can assure you there will be major games played with this stock until the "players" actually let this run. I for one am not going to allow myself to be F@$#ed again by these scoundrels!!!"
They will let this run on their terms, NOT OURS!!!!!
Excellent post dr....I totally agree with your assessment!!!
I'm almost 100% sure one or both of those claims by these banks were made in their capacity as Trustee's of WMI / WMB written MBS's. What I'm unsure about is why these claims are against the former estate (WMILT) and not JPM since they most likely are in possession of these instruments.
I'm by no means an expert but I would think the resolution of claims is the major obstacle, also whether the FDIC has deciphered WMI's books and completed their accounting of who owned what ie WMB vs WMI. I also believe the Deutsche litigation could also have some impact on the case resolution. In all "what do I know?".....I'm no bk guru like some here apparently are.
I too also share this opinion and have previously stated so. Why would the LT reveal they had assets/cash to disperse when there are still outstretched hands awaiting payment? So yes IMO you are correct.
IMO all these claims were(JPM, FDIC etc) negotiated years ago during mediation/POR V.7 negotiations, so them being expunged now was just a formality. We dance according to their tune and there's nothing we can do about it but wait.(including WMIHC)
As I have stated many times before, nothing will happen with regard to the WMILT until all impediments have been cleared and the estate is free of all financial constraints ie the official end of the bankruptcy.
I don't think claims resolution can be calculated in the manner you posted. There are complex claims (JPM, Marta, FDIC etc) that would have required more extensive litigation. Since the largest ones have been officially expunged we are now left with the "scraps" which I believe can be dispensed with quickly.
Deutsche Bank's claims are against JPM not WMILT since they (JPM) now possess the MBS's Deutsche bought and now claims were misrepresented by WAMU. It could potentially be an indirect impediment on the part of JPM, in terms of their participation in the ongoing process.
After the JPM and FDIC claims have been expunged i really dont think the rest were critical as those two. IMO
"In this receivership, they are $11B short out of the gate, JPM has 31 claims for billions to date and the Deutsche Bank $13 billion isn't even there yet. Cowboy down."
Another one(s) bites the dust!
You are right since I got that impression from his post also
I get that now but didn't LTW/Dime owners forfeit their claims to that cash by accepting the terms of the P&AA ie shares in WMIH in exchange for releasing all rights to those former claims???