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Thanks Guido. This whole thing is a joke now. Once we passed 3 years. The courts are extremely idiotic and blind to not see the true motive of this government. The courts believe the narrative government is pushing. The lawyers would do well to have actual shareholders testify to tell that jury exactly what they KNOW is going on, and has been for years. 6 of us testifying could pretty much bring home the truth to a jury, easily.
Achilles deFlanders, all the government needs to do is send in the 83k jack-booted IRS/accountants and start book cooking, like they did with the GSE's. Hire a guy like Hank P. To put a double barreled shotgun to the companies BOD heads.
When they start needing money cause taxing is exhausted, companies like Tesla, Amazon, drug companies will get thrown into conservatorship at a whim. Death spiral will be proclaimed, waa-laa instant confiscation of that companies shareholders property and the companies. It's not hard to see where they're going with this. Bush was a socialist in sheeps clothing, then B.O. took it next level. Trump should have been way more vigilant on this and made it more important.
Even MORE IMPORTANT, the area between the two black redacted lines of text....." the companies boards intended for the conservatorships to protect private shareholders interests".
Can government explain how they've fulfilled that obligation by robbing the complete net worth? Bankruptcy would have been more in line with protecting shareholders (we would have not done real bad)opposed to the governments false death spiral fabricated pretense to pretend a need for them to take the companies full networth. Just one huge lie being covered up with more lies. They knew the companies were TBTF/TINA, so they decided to full on nationalize theft of property without just compensation.
I'm split approx 250k shares FNMA/FMCC. Keeping my FNMA in case this ends up like Collins/SCOTUS ruling, a class action can still be filed under the FNMA shares. I have a feeling there is a deeper reason also as to why FNMA commons is not included in this class... It is stupidly easy to have had FNMA included yet no one with the financial means was tripping over each other to do that....why?
One scenario that keeps going on at the back of my mind is FMCC being released using this case and maybe the ROOP (sp?) Case as catalysts to do so. Put back in public hands. But FNMA, I am worried may go utility to compete with FMCC. a good way to kneecap and control a publicly released freddie is by having a bigger fannie controlled by the crooks in DC. I'm not saying that's what's going to happen, but a scenario that could play out. It might be why no big investor in FNMA tagged onto this class action. I realize the fannie prefs are part of the class, so kind of doesn't make sense unless the commons and the warrants are how the DC cartel is planning on the full nationalization via a utility for FNMA. If you can buyoff the largest shareholders into not going class action on this current case, smaller holders like myself do not have the financial where withall to financially back a solo joining of the class most likely. You'd be on the hook for probably 100's of thousands, if not millions for the attorney's.
So, something fishy going on is still my perspective.
If FNMA does a group class action later or suit to challenge the warrants, sure, I'd join and contribute what I can.
One more FMCC buy, and I am done, unless price sinks below 0.40.
Still in the one post a day crowd. Doubting this one will stay.
Good post Chessmaster! This is exactly why if they try to use warrants to also rob more value, and lessening capital, while still trying to keep their foot in the door with either the seniors or the warrants, no investor is going to want to risk being partners with a government that has shown it's willingness to cancel investors property. People saying they can re-ipo new shares making current holders zero, don't realize that then the warrants become zero, they are tied to us shareholders shares. The warrants are a right to current shares, not newly issued one's. Then they say convert seniors to more shares, there by destroying shareholder value. What's to stop government for changing the amended HERA again to issue itself more warrants after converting the old one's? There by destroying any new shareholders value they sold converted shares too? If they do not put the twins back, pretty much sound, they do nothing but set the twins up for another conservatorship down the road....maybe that is their end game, so they can easily bail out a bunch of screw up bank buddies again so they can all walk away with 10's of millions golden parachutes?
We would be having far different discussions here if the twins were actually pushed into bankruptcy like the banks were trying to do early on. They figured out it was not a good idea at all, because then they had no scapegoat to unload on when they screw up again, and government would have no choice but watch many banks fail as nothing would be in place to control the inevitable runs on banks. Yet the greed of these same banks are why we are where we are. The government and bank lobby probably also realized early on that bankruptcy would have made preffered and shareholders far better off. Someone here did a study on the outcome if we were put in BKR, and shareholders would have been at about $16/18 a share. Many would have not recouped their original investment at that price, but the bankers and government were too busy scheming on how to take as much value as they could. Jps would have gotten their par also in BKR much easier and more quickly. As the bankruptcy rumor was being pushed during the Obama administration, those idiots came to realize the twins were not only too big to fail but also TINA. Yet here we are with the government holding us hostage, basically, because so many in government made so many bad calls and decisions. Their conservatorship law did nothing to stream line the processing of too big to fail companies as they thought it would, we as guinea pigs are the prime example of their own failure at law making. This is what they will not admit too and why we are in and endless court battle where certain government owned judges make up meanings of words or adjudicate based on an "if" or "or" or "but" instead of following the master guideline - the constitution.
That's a good idea! Nice big chart with important topic events the lawyers can bullet point with because they did this, we suffered loss and the companies were made financially weaker, until now.
I think the lawyers are well aware also, that Lamberth was made a patsy by government via Ugoletti testimony lies. The lawyers will probably point this out numerous times during arguments, for the jury....at least I hope they do.
Articles I'm reading say that all PUNITIVE awarded damages are taxed as ordinary income, but other types of awards will need to have all questions directed too whoever the sttlement agent is. I'm reading that is very dependent upon how whatever settlement is looked at. Certain settlements, the award may go to you and no taxes due right then on the morney, but can be added to your cost basis later, and taxes will be due once you sell those shares.
$16 a share is nothing! That works out to approx $1.14 a year, or 0.28 cents per quarter. Maybe that proposed settlement should have ended with the words "tax free"? Thatvwould be a great punitive damage award! Lol
I hope Hamish Hume points out to that jury that this is not only a fight for fannie and freddie, but a fight for the future of free market capitalism and all investors property rights! If government wins, then look out Tesla, Microsoft, Amazon, etc. Anytime government starts running short on taxpayer funds they can go and throw another fat piggy back company into conservatorship, claim a death spiral and proceed to NWS all investor and company monies. A jury will understand the implications if plainly explained.
His prior tweets in that thread about the stress tests compared to capital requirements is exactly right! Thanks for the tweet post Guido.
It would seem many are watching as this unfolds. Not sure that bodes well for the current litigation coming up? The more people are finding this out to be a total chaotic cover up for bailing the banks, the more those same banks are pressuring government, and the government pressures the courts as we saw with the travel expenditure threat just before Collins at SCOTUS.
I believe if we had these cases tried in another country, the verdicts would have been completely opposite. There has been far too much cover up at this point, so many lies are being seen and exposed, but will the judicial branch ever take these politicians out back of the woodshed and put their foot down?
Yeah, sure. Even though they both have enough capital to surpass the last round of stress tests and could easily be released via consent decree! Keep pushing the same lie no matter how big their bank account grows, lol what's the story going to be by 2024 and FNMA has close to 100 billion and FMCC has close to 80 or 90 billion? Your story stopped working once they both surpassed a combined capital of 50-60 billion. But I bet you keep repeating it even if the seniors get forgiven and warrants sold back.
GSE treatment and Trump treatment are very similar if you look at it closely. That's why it blows my mind that Trump did not go scorched earth when the questionable election took place.
Absolutely! They should definitely point out the huge miscarriage of justice since the real theft began.
If Lamberth is truly mad or bent because of their lying to him last time, he should flat out deny this. Tell them to put up or shut up.
Brittney Spears and many others have been put in conservatorships. Amazing how in those situations they never lost any constitutional rights, and a judge was always made part of said consevatorship to oversee things, and make sure a fiduciary duty is followed by the appointed conservator.
With the twins, all that is reversed, put upside down, and the definitions/real world meanings of conserve, conservatorship, fudiciary, and many other words, now have their definitions scrambled or redefined by the judiciary to cover up for the corruption.
Per Websters dictionary:
Conservatorship
1a : one that preserves from injury or violation : protector.
Do ANY shareholders feel they've been preserved from injury? Violation? Does ANYONE see these DC clowns as being able bodied protectors?
I suspect totally opposite.
Wrong! Lol
Chances are most likely very good that these documents are a huge monumental embarassment on a world wide level, that would affect how other countries perceive our "free" market capitalism.
Wrong.
From FHFA directly in 2008, Lockhart.. see the last paragraph
FHFA Logo
7/13/2008
Statement of OFHEO Director James B. Lockhart in Support of Secretary Paulson, Administration, and the Federal Reserve in Their Efforts to Stabilize the Housing Financial System
“I support Secretary Paulson, the Administration, and the Federal Reserve in their efforts to stabilize the housing finance system.
OFHEO will continue to work with the Treasury, the Federal Reserve, the Congress, and the Enterprises in addressing the current situation and to assure that the Enterprises continue to fulfill their mission. We look forward to rapid passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation.
The Enterprises’ $95 billion in total capital, their substantial cash and liquidity portfolios, and their experienced management serve as strong supports for the Enterprises’ continued operations
Link:
https://www.fhfa.gov/mobile/Pages/public-affairs-detail.aspx?PageName=Statement-of-OFHEO-Director-James-B-Lockhart-in-Support-of-Secretary-Paulson,-Administration-and-the-Federal-Reserve-in-T.aspx
Wouldn't it be great if Lamberth actually allowed the jury to hear Hume ask questions to about a dozen actual shareholders? From Ackman, to Pagliara, to Navy, to Guido to MIA and so forth. Maybe even some from twitter. Give the jurors a real good look under the hood that the government keeps trying to put a tight lid on.
Then I'd love for Hume to ask how it is legal to null and void the first FORCED (blackmail) agreement that was pushed onto the original BOD? The shareholders fiduciaries. Then they create a whole new government self dealing agreement that had absolutely ZERO shareholder representation (Mel Watt I don't lay awake dreaming about shareholders, and Baerry Obama, we're going to bankrupt the GSE's), so how can that second agreement even have a wiff of legitimacy? I hope Hume puts them on the spot, especially if the court lets the crooks redact the crap out of their own documents lmao, fox watching the hen house, no?. At this point....no dam judge should be allowing reactions! Time to face the music, put up or shut up.
So was Thompsom appoinment, Dick Bove flip flopping, etc, etc, etc.
Yep! It's kick, clang clang clang, kick clang clang clang....until KA-CHING!
The JPS holders are gonna be a bit disappointed. Most of us realized this was a loooong haul capital raise. Not a "mug everyone in site" to appease a small group of JPS holders. The more time that passes, the more those guys might wake up.
Last prediction for GB was the S. Thompson appointment approval, that was supposed to set the jps on a skyrocketing stratospheric boooom this month, yet.....
What will he predict next?
I'll save him time. Recap is happening in real time, as we sit and await the final knife to drop in the courts. At that point, we are sitting at anywhere from 50% to 80% (maybe 100%+)of required capital, after cases and the changed rule. Then, it will be either treasury and FHFA do what is right, or they screw the pooch. That point in time is 2024, IMHO. about 6 to 9 months after the new administration takes the reins and S.Thompson is a footnote in the history of FHFA.
I think the closer to midterms that we get, the better the stock price will get....Why? Because the current administrations clown army won't have the time to screw this up. I think the stock price decline can be directly correlated to the appointment and approval of the current FHFA head, and things she has done so far. They will have far fewer options also if we end up with a veto proof majority in Congress and Senate. This will be a good thing for us IMHO. Resolution via a flipped Congress is our best bet if we can push our cause to the fore front like Guido has been doing. Because there's going to be a laundry list of investigations, get evens, maybe impeachments after midterms if things flip.
All you need to do is look at all the litigation the current administration has come under or pushed, and you can see they have lost almost everything they have backed or fought. So logically where would there be confidence that they would be able to correctly resolve this fiasco? Also look at the current state of the economy, our stock market, the fed rate and mortgage rates....none of this builds confidence for a resolution for us by the current administration.
Exactly! I hope all long shareholders who survive upto getting their vote reinstated, remembers these leeches that are installed via FHFA and government. Vote them all out.
Their interests are not aligned with current shareholders, that's for sure. They are beholden to government, which created this whole illegal mess.
Great site, I bookmarked! Truth. Thanks for exposing our cause. Guido also, the man is a bulldog! That's what they used to call me at work because I never stopped, never quit until my project was done.
Appreciate everyone on here attacking this injustice.
Congress and Senate must know something is going to happen after midterms, so loading up now. That's my guess.
It's no longer shareholder gains subsidized by taxpayer loses (the phony talking point).
Now, for 14 years it's been government gains subsidized by shareholder robbery, via unwittingly blind taxpayer backing.
The government crooks love using that taxpayer term to justify their criminal activity, yet nothing government has done with the GSE defrauded money has been shown to float to the bottom line of any taxpayer. Except FHFA give aways to dead beats of color with bad credit.
On another note: beware of following people with their head stuck in the sand!
That's correct! And why midterms matter. If Republicans take control of the house/Senate, that means Pelosi is out as speaker and her and Schummer are out as majority leaders in Congress and Senate(Speaker/majority leader appoints chairmanships currently), so whoever is elected speaker from the Republican majority will be busy, busy, busy. All the chair heads revert to Republican and appointments on committees will go republican majority. This and having a Brandon veto proof majority in the Congress/Senate will do wonders for us. As a group, we will really need to hammer our cause right after midterms since there will be many things on a Republican majorities list of things to do, and we don't want to keep being pushed to the bottom like during Trumps admin.
We should actually start researching and pushing out to the Republucan coongress and senate people who we would like to see heading the FHFA. Tim H.? Or maybe Ackman? Also have Richard Epstein appointed head council for the GSE's, this a wish of mine, lol. Currently there are all socialist bent appointments at the banking comittee & FHFA,,so the status quo is what they are doing, along with more stealth wealth redistribution in the name of racial segregationist tactics. Treasury can not stop Congress from changing GSE law and neither can Brandon if his veto power is taken.
The sad thing here is the folks who are professed party ideologues that know Obama never ever, ever would have released us and proved it by keeping us in hell for 8 years. I'm sure he is talking to this current admin about doing exactly the same as he did, hence almost two years of this admin and nothing but give away news. I'll guarntee you, if (BIG IF) another Dem president gets elected in 2024, we will be here 4 more years. No admin moved the needle towards release except Trumps. JMHO
To those who have responded to my posts, I have 1 post a day and am using it to express my views. Waste of time fighting the nonsense other opinions on here.
Do you have written proof of this from someone who counts? And not just little old you? Please post this information, otherwise, see redclouds post. I'm right there with redcloud and MIA, Brooge, Navy and others, buying these as they drop. Like a spring coiling downward, we all know what happens once that spring can no longer collapse....
Good stuff Guido! I just hooked 11,100 @0.45 FMCC I have $5k buy orders in at every 0.05 drop. Very soon, this will be above $1 again in my honest opinion. Market is down, no REAL news for the drop in price, and the prefs/common price relationship is outta whack once again. History has proven one will follow the other. So either commons go up or prefs go down.
I honestly do not think these cases resolve before midterms, no way. After midterms, if that super majority, presidential veto proof Congress and Senate materializes, then we have a very good chance at a grand bargain, then 2024 president can release us asap if Congess and Senate has not changed what's needed to do so.
GTA FMCC FNMA
Your logic as follows... government gets GSE'S to a minimum reasonable cap level and function to be released, then WHAMO exrcise 100 billion against them days, week, months or a year later. Yeah, right, that'll keep them solvent and supporting housing lolol. They can not exercise those warrants for many, many various reasons. You can dream though.
This is not just about capital, it's about getting government the hell out of the way WITHOUT robbing more of the GSE's value/capital because it creates oooh so many bad situations, like weaker GSE's, an investing public who has about 15% confidence in government overall, so who will buy their pitch especially if still in a controlling position. Republicans will in no way allow usage of those warrants. The second Brandon, Maxie and Thompson mention doing something with them, I see a very quick court case being filed by Republicans and very possibly others to block it. It will then be all over the news, so kind of hope they ARE STUPID ENOUGH to try.
Everyone on here proposing some pie in the sky use of warrants or other scheme fails to explain HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN while in conservatorship and with legal cases on going? I take these people about as seriously as those who have claimed to see bigfoot,,just because they saw a size 13 foot print. The treasury has said absolutely nothing, congress has said absolutely nothing and based on previous attempts, or lame attempts at pushing release, all roads lead through Congress and treasury. The FHFA head is nothing but an affirmative action hire whose mission is wealth redistribution, Maxine is solid proof of this. She FHFA has zero power to do a cap raise and release until treasury and Congress say she can.
Soooo many times someone gets on the warrants sale bandwagon or hopium conversion wagon or spouts 150% of par...all I can say is well....where the hell is it? When? How? Keep asking these simplistics questions and watch how fast the proposer loses credibility.
Sure, something will be done...in 6-9 months, maybe a year, but I highly doubt this IQ of 15 administration has the know how or the political capital to burn on this. Unless it's used as another diversion, dumpster fire. Otherwise, I challenge those who are yaking up warrant usage to provide specific details, dates, who will authorize? Treasury? Fhfa? Congress? President? And explain if they did, how that would go unchallenged by the whole republican group, not to mention how that money gets spent, since like the NWS it would get swallowed by treasurys general fund.
I believe Fidelity is still letting me buy and sell. Once your whole position is gone though, they won't let you. Anyone at Fidelity who does not own, cannot buy. I am at Vanguard also, but have not tried buying there in awhile. Mostly buying at Fidelity. Pretty sure Vaguard can't stop you from selling, but this is first I've heard that Vanguard will not allow anymore buying? Is it any newly position opening purchases, like at Fidelity, or is it existing holders of GSE stocks also?
Your premise that this is affecting price and action is very thought provoking, for sure! I agree it is having a desired affect by the government and its hired MM henchmen or banks. We should have assumed back when brokerages announced this that it was a government implemented attempt to control the price and action.
Whoa! Good stuff. Your posts are a favorite of mine to read lately.
I think Guido, Navy, Brooge and many of others would agree with your assessment. Time will tell....I am in firm belief that midtetms gets the ball rolling as you laid out. An honest release must happen.
This is OTC though...far different world. Stocks on this exchange have gone from pennies to dollar multiples in hours, overnight, and then listed to the big boards PDQ. The GSE's should never have been listed here,,and I'm sure its making things extra difficult for any release, cap raise or anything else. They wanted us in purgatory, and they got their wish, only problem is everything the government has as finacial backing from the GSE'S (79.9% of warrants and seniors) is tied to all of our 19.1% commons and JPS. It's stated in the law which they wrote.
If the house and Senate flip enough to veto proof majority, we will get the Congressional solution all the FHFA lead talking heads have parroted. Treausury has to follow the law, and if Congress makes/modifies GSE law, then Treasury and FHFA will need to follow. Since S. Thompson reports direct to Biden, I see Congress changing this situation also to amend the constitutional flaw that is currently in place. It may not be as far off as you think! 5 months and counting down. If you really want to affect a good change here, do it with your vote come November, and also do it with those who trust your influence on who to vote for. Veto proof majority can work wonders for us. There will be much about impeaching or booting people from government at first, so we need to make a big and loud push the very day that a majority is verified.
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/fannie-mae-cuts-2022-industry-forecast-again/?amp=1
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/industry-uproar-over-50-bps-fee-on-gse-securities/?amp=1
These judges have a way of bullshyt skirting around the laws, or making things up as they go. This is my fear here.
It is a last best hope for real justice, I do not knock that, but the judges tend to bend so far backwards to CYA for the governnent, that they tend to bury their heads up their wazoo's. The SCOTUS ruling as they ruled still leaves a very bad taste in pretty much all of our mouths. So what will they concoct to dissipate and water down this very egregious behavior of the governments?
Well....so far this administration has turned 401k's into 201k's, or for some 101k's. Housing prices are now starting to fall drastically, so more of your wealth evaporating and much higher interest rates soon to negatively affect those with adjustable rate mortgages, and home buying will drop, no one knows how badly though. Also a Clowngress and Senate that passed a massive infrastructure bill under this administrations push, only now to see much of that money being put towards and evaporating by record diesel cost and not the roads building. There are zero electric back hoes, crains, front end loaders, cement trucks, etc. On top of all this, record inflation which is actually reported 2 to 3x lower than it actually is. And a world laughing at our leadership!
Yet on here we have folks (mostly JPS holders) actually advocating and cheering this administration to do an administrative release! Absolute suicide move. You may as well grab a knife and cut your own throat, because that's exactly what the outcome will be by supporting any action on the GSE's by the current administration. I do believe midterms will start to provide us a true path out of this mess. Then 2024...I know, more waiting and no one is getting any younger, but moving in haste on this will not be good for any of us.
Wait for it! The hedge funds manipulating the JPS crowd here see better oportunity coming in this plummeting market. Soon, they will sell off their JPS holdings and stop their litigation to buy the bargains out there. Wait for it. There's no reason (aka news or other announcement) for the JPS and common price imbalance. Many here have said, as one goes, so should the other. That means either commons should revert to its JPS relationship and go up, or JPS should revert to down. There's nothing saying release, dividends, conversion, court win, nada! So....wait for it.
So based on that logic, dilute or even wipe out all JPS is acceptable also.
Can someone explain to me how JPS get a super duper favorable outcome by fighting tooth and nail with the government/FHFA?
The GB plan followers say capital stack matters...only outside conservatorship. What matters then?
Liquidation pref. = not happening now, or ever. We are making $$$
Dividend = only once there is enough capital, then yeah, they may start cutting dividends again.
Buuuut...you say conversion? How? Once released, that tells me that commons voting rights must be reinstated, who votes for any conversions or cap raises? Yup, you got it! Common shareholders. Why would government create billions upon billions of cheap shares to create a voting nightmare?
Release will most likely involve a consent decree or something like it, to help with a temporary backing while capital is allowed to legitimately build. Hence, no dividends for anyone for awhile, in my opinion. So what's left?
Common share price appreciation.
JPS price appreciation.
The big question is : what will treasury withhold on and/or write off? Seniors or warrants? If I was a betting man, and I am, I'd say the commons have a higher net price rise potential for a higher payout later on. Does anyone have info on the governments senior shares as far as if the value is capped like other jps shares ($25, $50, etc)? Is there a top price for seniors?
Will government do the right thing and void both seniors and warrants, or will they hang onto some or all of that class which has the highest gain return potential? Only 2024 will tell. Lol
My one post is going to be giving you and Lite a thumbs up standing ovation. Send these to treasury, FHFA, congress, all the thief's.
Excellent posts! Thanks for the laugh.
Maybe not too much longer! If midterms provides a flipped house and Senate (especially a veto proof one) and the house and Senate spontaneously impeach a few people, this could rocket - definitely. There would be a definite fix of the law SCOTUS ruled as being unconstitutional, where we now have a director beholden to the executive branch. A flipped Congress and Senate could remedy that by getting rid of the one FHFA director and going to an appointed board, as it should have been, since these companies are too politically controlled at a whim.
So hang tight! I think the closer midterms get, the more exciting this will become. Current gang is under some very severe pressures with all that is going wrong for them as we enter into an election cycle, so do they really need or have the time to add to their list of SNAFU's? I hope not. More than willing to wait until 2024, and after the worst part of this administrations recession or stagflation hits. It would be a supremely stupid idea and unconscionable to release these companies into a housing market that is barreling downward and an economy in such disarray.
This is my one post.lol hope it sticks