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Awesome. At this point production is almost a given. Very worst case scenario it will take a long time and the product will be merely competitive, not revolutionary. Best case scenario this becomes the new standard in heating, like the ICE replacing steam. Either way the pps is sure to go up significantly, even if it takes a while. People would have to be crazy to sell any significant amount at this point... Wish I had more powder.
From what they have said they are at the very start i would think, maybe steps 2 or 3 at the very very most. They sound like they just decided on UL no more than a couple of days ago. There must have been communication but probably no exact plan yet...
The first few steps could easily be done in a week, before the actual work starts. By then UL should have given them an idea of what exactly they will do and how long it would take and hopefully they let us know too.
Yeah according to that it should be at least the 7 weeks at the very minimum. But it could be, like other posters said, that this is just a preliminary testing session where UL just gives directions and ideas for safety and improvements to be made and the final testing follows once they have all been implemented and the product is 100% ready. At least things are moving along... Although this has the potential to drag on quite a bit longer.
For once I'm pretty happy with them. Yeah the PRs are still far from perfect but there's a lot of info coming out, a lot of good stuff happening. Hopefully they maintain momentum and don't get back into a long quiet period. It'd be interesting to know how long UL testing generally takes, is it a matter of days or are there months of waiting.
I completely agree with that but the way the PR is worded it is not obvious that this is what they are doing. I really don't know who writes these PRs and if they obfuscate them on purpose or they just have communication problems...
Honestly I am not sure what "examination and critique" would entail or what it has to do with safety testing. I assumed that Design1 would be doing the advice-giving as far as development goes. Are they hiring yet another company to help with development? I completely agree it is important to have the third party safety testing done when officially revealing the product. I also completely agree that it is important to have third party certification, both for safety and for efficiency. That still doesn't tell us exactly what it is this lab will do, will it look at a completed product and give it a seal of approval as far as safety goes or will it start working with the Wanderport team to make the device meet safety standards. Or something in between.
Looks like good news. Narrowing the labs down, still sticking to the June 3rd date, multi cavity version in the works, etc. I'm getting excited, hopefully the pps does to.
However, I'm a little confused about the testing. I always thought about safety testing for any product as the manufacturer knows very well what standards they have to meet and what safety features they need to incorporate, they build them into the product and then submit the product to a third party for certification. The way the PR is worded it sounds like at first the lab will look at the device and just tell them what they should have put on it in the first place. I assumed that whatever safety standards water heaters and microwave devices have to meet are already out there or can be obtained... And if the lab will only tell them what the standards are why do they even need to see the prototype at this stage. Maybe I don't understand how safety testing works or maybe i misread the PR...
There are reasons a higher pps is a good thing...
- If you need the money for an emergency, for a great investment opportunity etc it is nice to be able to get it out without massive losses
- If you at some point decide the investment is not as good as it first seemed it is nice to have the option to get out of it.
- If the pps is low it means there is no confidence in the company. Regardless of what people say, what the herd does is important and it could be a sign.
- If the pps does take off it is much better if it takes off from a higher level. People looking for a certain % gain will be selling much later than they would if it had started very low
- It is nice to look at green stuff.
Picking up the phone doesn't do anything. First of all the company is not allowed to release any insider information so picking up the phone works for getting various details about a blue chip, not making up your mind whether a penny is for real or not. Second, Andrew is always "very excited" about what is going on and just as positive as can be. He was saying big things were just about to be released A YEAR ago. Stuff is always just around the corner with him. After a while that counts for nothing. If they were a year ago where they are today he still arguably should not have been as excited as he was. Given where they actually were you could almost call him misleading.
Overall I do believe the company is 100% real, not doing anything funny, I do believe they are trying hard to get this done and I do believe they have a really good chance of having something big on their hands. But that doesn't change the facts that 1. they are taking forever, 2. they constantly promise great things followed by fluff, 3. they will not admit that they are missing the timeline by a large margin, 4. the PRs are vague and really badly worded. All of that could very easily be misinterpreted in penny land and the pps reflects that. Just because a company is a good investment does not automatically make them perfect or above any criticism, especially from the people whose money they hold. JMO...
I completely agree it is 100% their fault we were put in a position where we did not get what they promised. What I was saying is that knowing that, we could have chosen to say fine, we'll wait longer and not stir things up. I don't think that would have been the right thing to do, I absolutely believe it was right to push them, if anything we should have pushed earlier and harder. All I was saying was we did that and it was part of what brought us here, a side-effect of doing the right thing maybe...
They may have started the whole PR campaign too soon. Assuming the prototype still needs work, assuming they don't have efficiency numbers yet and knowing the safety testing hasn't even been contracted yet, the enclosure hasn't been designed... And add to that the speed things have been moving at so far... We could be looking at another 2-3 months of no news pretty easily.
Maybe we are partly to blame because we "forced" them to come up with some news but mostly they should have either moved faster or admitted things fell far behind and told us there's more waiting ahead. Now we might be in a situation where they have again said/implied they're very close but might not have anything to show for a long time. Hopefully that's not the case.
It's exactly what you would expect. Things are starting to slowly be revealed but at the same time we don't have anything really definitive at all. Too big of an upside potential to sell but no good reason to buy.
I thought they fired B.S. a pretty long time ago. I think their PRs have been a little rosy even after that, less so, true, but still...
And the old type of news is only ok for very short periods of time and only if followed by actual facts soon after. Even right now, if they say we have some sort of prototype that is close to ready and then we don't hear from them for another three months that would not be ok. And sure enough investors/traders are voting with their money, the pps is staying weak. If they really put something tangible out there that would make it obvious they have a competitive viable product there would be no way MMs or flippers or whoever could keep this under 10c.
Yeah it's very possible they had to keep the promises up just because they started it that way even though later they realized it would take far longer than they thought. Maybe it was B.S.'s idea, maybe not, we'll never know. Who knows what plans they had at that time, how things changed... But still, from our point of view you could almost call it misleading. Overall I'm confident it will all be worth it in the long run but that doesn't mean it could not have been handled far better. And investors do have a right to complain.
Honestly I think Gold has a point. If you read all the PRs over the last two years the company did make it look like they were much much further along than they really were. And they consistently missed the timelines they provided by very wide margins. I do agree with everyone else that the company is for real and they do have a product which has a very good chance of being successful.
But that doesn't change the fact they are moving at snail pace. A year and a half ago I was telling people they were crazy for thinking we'd have a product on the shelves in two months but even I thought we'd be 100% done by now. At this point we could easily be 6 months away from sales, maybe much more if things move at the speed they have so far. We still don't have a finished product, we still don't have third party testing, no efficiency numbers at all... If they would have said two years ago "relax people and we'll get back to you in three years" that's perfectly fine, it's their right. But they did the exact opposite, they keep saying the product is almost ready. It wasn't just one misunderstanding over one sentence, it's entire pages of excited PRs that say they're about to take over the world.
Well, it's not obvious what testing it passed. On one hand they say "confirms it has completed all the necessary wiring enabling the commencement of trials." which means they haven't started trials yet... On the other hand they say "As our appraisal of the functioning SC MHU comes to an end, their support and continued business..." which suggests they are close to the end of testing... Basically all we know for sure is they have a box on a table with components in it that do work together. How well they work, how much they've been tested, how close they are to being production ready is still a complete mystery.
Overall I think this is great news, much better then before.
However... It is really not obvious from the PR if they are still tweaking the prototype and could make major changes to it or they are 99.9% done and are just getting stats from it. Everything says "subject to change", the enclosure is not build (which we were fairly confident Design1st already had done) and they have no actual numbers which must mean the device is not 100% complete...
Also, nothing at all about the 30 million shares which considering how riled up investors were about them is very very strange.
I guess the fact there are no deadlines or time estimates at all could be explained by the fact they kept missing them so didn't want to get in trouble again. Still, I would have liked to know at least specifically what they have to do before production can start so we can get an idea of how long we'll need to wait.
To be perfectly honest what they have now, a temporary box with components in it on a table, without any numbers, I assumed they had at least 6 months ago, from what they were saying.
Still, I'm excited and might pick up more once they release a better PR. As long as we don't go another month with no news we'll do really well. We could in theory get numbers within a week, testing done within a month and in production by the end of summer...
That sounds good! Kind of sucks they're still not quite ready to go but if they spell out what's going on I'm willing to wait no problem. If it sounds good enough I'll load some more.
Someone said that Andrew said that Robert has it now. As far as official info goes we know absolutely nothing. Even assuming they do have the prototype we have no idea if it's ready and they're gathering stats or they're still messing with it and trying to get it to work and/or improve it. It's the main reason people are so disappointed, we know nothing...
Yes, exactly! Tell us in plain english what the device can and can't do at the moment. If all it does right now is prop a door open then fine, tell us that. Tell us anything OTHER than "it'll be done soon". Otherwise you're not only wasting our money you are also wasting our time. Are you listening Wanderport, hint, hint!
- Everytime they release anything it is misconstrued
- Every PR is picked apart and they are blasted for incompetency
- They want to properly manage expectations
- Any time "estimates" are treated as hard and fast "Deadlines"
Not really... Obviously he could have said that. Just find it hard to believe that the company would just sit on the side and watch us get killed out here. They have so far so it's not hard to imagine they'd do it again I guess. What possible reason could they have for not having any information to release right now but being confident they will in a couple more days... We'll see... In my opinion if they aren't a scam they are super incompetent. There is no reason to keep everything completely quiet and keep people in the dark until everything is 100% ready.
So after a day like this and after the last week they supposedly still won't release anything for at least another two days? I find that hard to believe...
You are right. Being understanding with them if they need more time, maybe... But there is no excuse at all for keeping us in the dark. What did they think was going to happen, the price would just keep going up forever and ever without giving us anything at all?
Yeah me too... Big time. Never thought a drop this big was possible without some major bad news... I'm speechless.
Yes, it is very frustrating because it could EASILY BE AVOIDED. Assuming this isn't a scam how hard is it to put out a PR about the freakin product... Nobody would sell at 1.8 with a prototype on the way. At 7 maybe, but not this low. People are just fed up...
A lot of us will be in trouble with someone we know... :(
It's ok Robert, cook your steak as slowly as you like, take your time, don't mind us...
Exactly. Wanderport, tell us what the deal is, come on... Asking us to wait is ok but not telling us a thing about the product in months and months is not.
If they added the 30 mil 2 months ago then the good thing should have happened by now...
Come on Robert and Wanderport, put out a PR telling us what state the product is in, with FACTS, not just the usual fluff. It doesn't matter how far along you are or how long it will take, just tell us. And include a paragraph about the 30 million too in there. I can't possibly hurt in any way and it will make you look far far better and less like the usual penny... It's as simple as that.
I can't help myself! Muuust... step... awaaay... Just one more peek... Maybe it took off. No... Not yet. Maybe now? No...
Ugh... :( They said end of April. After they said end of 2010. After they said start of 2010. I'm sure it will all be worth it and all but come on, especially now that apparently they have all the parts put together, it's frustrating to watch the pps keep going down while we keep waiting and waiting...
I hope the company doesn't think they are off the hook for a prototype or an update about it for another month or so just because they released that open letter. I do agree that everything looks really good, especially with the latest contract update, but we still don't have any info on the actual product. And that is still the one thing we need for this to take off.
I'm sure it's just coincidence...
It'd be stupid for the same person to do a complete 180 in a second. Nobody would fall for that.
I agree. Good to see people are positive on the stock. A few days back there was a basher around here talking out of his a$$...
Someone's been trying to unload 570k shares, hope they're done once that's over...
That looks awesome from top to bottom. Only (very small) thing that's a little iffy is in Pt 2 " Minimum Sales Requirements in Schedule lie" shall be established and reviewed as the Company
becomes closer to a marketable product". I was kind of hoping they were close to having a product now... But I suppose maybe they rushed to put this out and couldn't decide on exact numbers right now. Still, looks like the real deal, pretty impossible to see a scam anywhere since they haven't gotten a cent from us and looks like they won't for a long time. Now for a prototype announcement and this thing will go crazy!
OMG, no way!!! Wow...
That is awesome news! Where did you find that? At this point there is no way they can delay till then, not even close.
Yeah... Robert better be working through the weekend. And bring his camera to work. With no news next week we'll be in trouble again.