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Ok, DB. Hey btw if you're going to spellcheck me why don't you do it with everyone else??
A mtg (some WUCC s.h and other investors) to explain his "game" and have us buy into it...WUCC did, I was very skeptacle, but we both have learned some things and have to live with it.
jtf
Ok, I'm w ya!! So true on the standards here...we have to prove (and do yet still don't catch a break); they don't..oh well I'm ok with it. Keep an eye on my posts as well the next couple of days...I'll post some pics, etc and I've been thinking of a couple of items I'd like to discuss / tell the forum...
jtf
M-you're welcome...btw, congrats on your .006 play if you had it; yeah, CPRK got the shareholders the deal but the run was due to md and wucc (yet some bash the very people who helped with the run up! Sorry but man, I'm still ticked about the merger; privately held with LT financing signed, ready to fund in July/Aug 07 and the credit crisis hits....talk about a bad roll of the dice!!) Ok, I'll get over it....going forward we now have to rely on production, rev/profts and fundamentals...still some high risk/gambling but hope you're up for that kind of play!!
jtf
Ally, good post...btw, your mentioned CPRK run up to .39 was not due to any fundamentals of pre-CPRK (CPRK had bascially nothing; a 1200 acre piece of mineralized property, out in the boondocks, 5 years away from production and probably bought for a couple million $) Indeed, thank WUCC merger announcement for that run (to bad some got burned...hopefully just on paper, but not over yet and i really can't blame investors for selling after that kind of run; you should have seen my paper gain!!)
Just an observation, IMO, WB had little to do with run.....his antics had barely started...in the meeting w WB, he was describing his "formula" and the stock price was at the end of the run...IMO, what caused the run was investors seeing the potential of WUCC; its still there. I must say as I read the pre-merger CPRK shareholders posts, I sense a lot of pain and must agree, I wouldn't have trusted the officers, insiders, or anyone associated w that company (maybe thats why some here don't trust WUCC shareholders (me) because they associate WUCC w CPRK). However, I have met most of the officers/insiders and some employees of WUCC and must say, imo, they are good people, of integrity that are highly disciplined and motivated (and to have posters slam appraisals, resumes, bios, historys, credentials, and character not knowing them or with little to no dd is just so childish). I hope both CPRK shareholders can give them a chance to prove themselves until they prove otherwise...they are NOT pre-CPRK nor want to play the pump and dump game!! I get the feeling from them (and I've asked for it) that they want to improve communication, PR, full disclosure etc. The next few months are going to be interesting!!
btw, I'll try to post some pics/docs tomorrow from my work computer.
jtf (still long CPRK...surprise, surprise)
Ok, thats fair... I'll take you up on your offer on helping me w pics and docs if Ally's doesn't work...
jtf
Ally, gave me instructions...I try but thanks for the offer.
jtf
Thanks, I'll give it a try; hope it works....btw, nice pic
jtf
RDG, are u serious? ....."anyone in the know, would be nice to hear from you?" what, so you can blast em?!! what do you think I've been doing the past 4 days!!! Please, man, if you ask for info and get it please at least keep an open mind...
BTW, the billboards, VNR, O'Hurley, STL, bullseyemicrocaps.com, and/or any other bulls%*t is the absolute doing of the infamous WB (pre WUCC). This is his trademark...I sat in a meeting and heard how he does it time and time again (and it made me sick)...its truely pump and dump; all blue sky and no assets...that's what he does...its a game for him. This was put into place several months ago and is running its course...he is out and the company (WUCC) will not continue this path (imo)!!! the CPRK (pre-merger)shareholders don't know how lucky they are to have WUCC in charge w its assets and WB out, imo!!!
You are correct...however, he is concerned about stock price and wants to increase value (its also financing the operations at a very low price)and I think you'll see WUCC do better with PR etc now but absolutely knows the best way to a higher stock price is performance. This public, pink stuff is all new to the entire company...they probably will hire new pr firm to help out. btw, how do you post pics etc? I have a couple of nice ones from the mill plus some interesting documents you will be interested in. Or send me email and I'll send to you.
jtf
To help understand it; when I visited the site last week; there was a fairly large round mill sitting outside the plant (ready for installation/awaiting motor refurbishing). It was a magnotite mill (mm) looks similar to ball mills in pics that are posted, which btw, are set into their cement foundations). Hatch engineering suggested they purchase mm as a very cost efficient way to increase rev (millions). How this is done is the ground up ore material before its put into the vat leach is run through this mill that has magnates inside. The iron ore within the ground up ore adheres to the inside of the mm which is then recovered and sold for steel etc.
hope this helps
jtf
My understanding is $27m (mostly short term); lenders are anixious but are patient (I know some of them)...they're part of LT financing negociations which will take them out in part or full
jtf
No not what I said in my post or what I'm saying (it was very clever on how float # was received). Interesting forum; I'll say again, I really try to make sure my info is accurate to the best of my ability; and everyone has the right to agree or not...
jtf
Conf call w officer and TA....ticked w WB bs and needed to know...
Agreed!! And no they're not brass!! BTW, the fact that you dislike WB and so do I makes me re-evaluate your position. I think you are trying to warn people of WB and his antics due to misfortune of another run in w WB in the past...
jtf
I've posted this before and will post again: per TA (Old Mammoth...might change to Standard)...float is approx 57m+. I was told 10m+ by WB then 20m+ and on and on and on....he is done and gone...he told these #'s to MS, EB and others..I believe they were duped too....
FYI, had a conversation w MD about public info/disclosure/news etc. Wants to be pro-active / better in this area....time will tell (remember, this pinky thing has backfired and is not what they thought would be the desired outcome but this is new to them and they know they have to live with it now; lets see if they can be a "responsible" pinky)
jtf
RDG, I agree that posting facts that are not facts should not be done; so wouldn't you agree, and it really goes without saying, that posting non-facts that are facts should not be done also?! Believe me...there have been some of those...
Please tell me which ones you have issues with and I'll clarify / and correct if I did w/o stated opinions/estimations...I ready want to be accurate on this board..maybe I should list the posted non-facts that are indeed facts
jtf
I'll put something together about my visits...btw, I'm really ok w Lazy...kinda fun in a way! I won't fault anyone w an opposite view; be nice if it includes substantiated info.
Yes, a very frustrated (WUCC) but optimistic (CPRK) shareholder. I do have more to post. Anyone interested in hearing about MY 2 visits to the site? I'd also like to start a discussion on assay tests / lab etc. Finally, I really don't know how / or want to figure out how to post "attachments" to forum. Can someone let me know or be available through private email that I can send stuff to be posted? Thanks in advance.
jtf
long CPRK (full disclosure ya know!!)
Ok, thanks, btw, I agree totally alot of if's and "tons" to do before this "pans" out (my attempt at dry humor!!)
jtf
Yes, at the appropriate time and well into the future. Production and many other things first...their plate is very full.
jtf
L, good post; we do agree on some common issues....
-WB has been bad for WUCC; period
-Companies generally don't post (or admit to it!); however most of the info I have posted I gathered by DD; available to anyone who tries...curious, whether WUCC posted or me would it make a diff? WUCC will release news as appropriate...info I posted I wouldn't classify as news.
-WB was behind billboards/VNR; stupid; puzzeling, upsetting, but I wouldn't describe it as po'd (but not a mofo)! This was not a WUCC thing...paid by CPRK prior to merger; they just added the WUCC angle w merger; we got stuck w it. My first reaction was "this will not work...especially the billboards...
-Dotson/WUCC has more than alot to prove, but its only been 3 months since merger (he/wucc board made a huge mistake w merger); you should go out to the mill site to see what he's done; to say he hasn't done one dang thing is not accurate, sorry just isn't
-I do have an agenda; I want the stock to go up..and it won't unless by performance and fundamentals which WUCC is trying to do
-Yes, I might lose my money..I'm aware of that possibility...yes WUCC is now a pinky, but only by merger/default...the WUCC story is not the CPRK story...time will tell
-I agree with your message board rule #1; I don't believe in everything I read (some stuff) until I check it out for myself if possible...hopefully you do too
-Yes, I believe what I write; why wouldn't I? I'm sure you believe in what you write too..at least I hope so..otherwise you'd be violating your own post slant.
-Valuation article is fact-I'll post; my estimations were just that and I thought I made that clear...most start up companies create pro-formas-not a bad thing; some advice...PLEASE don't invest in any company that says has nothing, will lose millions and not make a profit!! (sorry, just kiddin') I admit..it goes the other way too.
-I'll post appraisal and WUCC personnel; let me know if would you like any other info...
JTF
I agree 100%
Lazy, I'll try to answer your posts specifically this one. You state that I haven't posted facts or at least what I assume to be facts. Fact is you're not factual. In my first post I was clear...I'll state facts and also opinions / estimations which I try to carefully differentiate in my posts. I believe I've done this so far.
FACTS (previously stated in prior posts)
-I'm an accredited investor of WUCC
-I'm not an insider; just a key investor (don't know how to prove to you)
-I do own 13.5m shares; no sales (can prove through broker statements and stock certificates; willing to show without compromising my privacy)
-Visted mill twice - Sept 07; April 08
-Met and talked to key people; including WB (BTW, he misrepresented in a mtg w WUCC shareholders I attended in which he stated CPRK float was just over 10m shares; later proven to be 60m through transfer agent)
-WUCC started operations in 2001
-WUCC currently employees 60 (some are key respected geologists and mining personal from other large mining co.)
-WUCC was privately held w 94m shr until merger
-Key investors; Southworth Company and former principal of large captial investment company; there are others too
-Independant appraisal of $20b (I have 116 page copy; will post summary pages if you'll tell me how through chat room)
-Hatch Engineering did feasibility report, know project
-$40m in equipment / infastructure to date
-Need $5m-$10m to finish mill
-History of Milford Mineral District (BTW, research Frisco, UT history; within miles of WUCC pits)
-Currently in discussions for long term financing (hard to prove so I'll concede this to you; but very obivious)
-CPRK owned 2000 acre Drum Mtn / WUCC owns 100,000 acres
-WB is a promoter / bad decision for WUCC to go that direction
-Approx 325m o/s for CPRK
-WUCC is financing operations w sale of RESTRICTED stock (let me know if you're interested and I'll get you in touch!! Probably won't take me up on that offer!!)
-Insiders own 80% of stock / NEW FACT: 15% is owned by others; 95%+ is restricted (hard to prove; I'll concede this to you)
-O/S increase to 1.8b was due to merger / WUCC 16:1 (could increase slightly)
-Valuation article- I'll post (was not my opinion but authors - I just applied articles val. models to WUCC situation. BTW, there was a third valuation model of cash flow which I didn't reference to since WUCC doesn't have current cash flow. Article also said future exploration/most successful new mines are NEAR proven reserves/mines)
-CPRK is non-reporting pinky
-CPRK brought w merger public pain to WUCC...
-Valuation pre-merger / post-merger numbers of stock
Are these not facts...or proven truths as you call them (btw, whats the diff)?
Opinions/Estimations (stated in prior emails)
-WB is out (will be proven a fact..)
-WUCC merger w CPRK very bad decision...key people will admit that now
-CPRK shareholders better off now than before / WUCC worse off
-$150,000,000 future profit potential (from company pro-forma)
-P/E muliple valuation of $1.50 / Tonage valuation of $1 (from article which I'll post)
-Company will consider reverse split upon rev/profits
-Company will stay with A/S of 2.5B
-Company has minerals / will get financing / has significant upside rev/profit potential (BTW, i'll post later about proven mineral reserves etc)
Please let me know where I'm inaccurate and I'll try to correct. BTW, I challenge you to post to forum why you post / position in CPRK (I think its obvious though)..I post because I want to; why not, get info out, correct misinfo if possible....it seems to me as long as longs get scrutinized and accused of hype, pump (rightly so); shouldn't that go for shorts as well?!
Good luck... and I'll accept your respectful challenges to my info...just won't respond to personal attacks..I'll respond to your other posts item by item.
BTW, other info...WB was never in charge; I've invested approx 5% of my net worth in WUCC (my comfort range; sorry its not yours); please remember I orginally invested in a privately held company (WUCC) not a pinky...I knew what the increase in shares would be before you knew; I'll have to deal with change in WUCC (pinky) status; if I'm wrong so be it; lose money and go make some more (won't be first time but I assure you I've made money in many deals/stocks/businesses); sorry you think my posts are pomp and circumstance...btw, just learned of forum 3 weeks ago.
JTF
Thanks, I'm trying to make CPRK discussion factual and informative; both sides...I'm fine w people who are short or believe the company will not succceed but please let us know your position and please give factual evidence of your position...and I'll do the same...
BTW, I need to correct my post to Capted - I thanked him for thinking I was honorable and not an insider .... after re-reading he was referring to Rooster...my bad...hope he will someday consider that statement for me....w facts I'll provide.
BTW, I'll keep posting as long as I have credible info to share...and I have more to share!!!
jtf
C, first, thanks for believing I'm honorable and not an insider..those are facts....I made my position on CPRK very clear in prior post; I'm long, totally committed to CPRK and YES I want the stock to go up - not earth shattering news! I wish more people would fully disclose their intentions/positions. Yes, I have a lot to lose....and I have purchased every shr I own...1m in open market transactions the past 3 months; the rest through restricted private placement / accredited investor while shareholder of WUCC. Its everyones right to believe me or not but I do have proof (broker statements / stock certificates) ...I'll respond to Lazy later....
BTW, i did give Rooster directions through private email...
Eye, I prefer using the word "valuation" rather than "cost" of the merger. BTW, as a prior owner of a privately held company, I wish the merger wouldn't have happened. As a result of the merger, CPRK only brought a small piece of property to the table with production years into the future (CPRK also brough public pain...day traders, short sellers, scrutiny, ridiculous capitalization, WB etc.!!) WUCC has mineral property 50 times larger than CPRK with production within a few months. IMO, CPRK shareholders are much better off now and the "new" CPRK is bigger, better thanks to WUCC. Bottom line, WUCC shareholders needed to be credited with CPRK shrs....not a bad thing; WUCC brought more than its fair share of "value" to the merger-much more than CPRK.
Valuation analysis:
-CPRK pre-merger; 325m @ .10 (ave) = $32m+
-WUCC pre-merger; 94m @ 2.00 = $188m
-WUCC/CPRK merger; 2b @ .06 = $120m
Not an analysis/debate on whether its justified, just an analysis on actual valuation that the market gave companies at time of merger and now
(BTW, IMO company will consider reverse stock split only after rev/profits but still all relative; I also think CPRK will stay within the 2.5b A/S; probably end up around 2.2b or so)
Regarding 2 financing options:
-Debt is better imo too (especially with pro-forma cash flow)
-WUCC will do both (assuming negociations go through)
-Equity option will not dilute current O/S (shrs are available from past WUCC "matter" that are included in O/S)
Summary, it really all boils down to does the company have the minerals; will the company get additional/final financing and will it have signicant rev/profits....IMO it does and will, starting last qtr of 2008 and beyond.
jtf
Facts as I know them regarding WUCC / CPRK
I have been reading this thread with interest for approx 30 days now (sometimes shaking my head and other times w a smile)and have decided to post with the purpose of providing facts (and a few opinions/estimations) as I know them in bullet form and with full disclosure (please excuse the length of this post..Information was gathered by interview, due dilegence and public research).
About Me
- Investor in WUCC for approx 10 months
- Not an insider
- Currently own 13.5m shares (haven't sold a single share)
- Long term long (2-5 years)
- Visited the mill/office twice (Sept and last week)
- Met and talked to the KEY people
About WUCC / Milford Mineral Belt
- WUCC started operations in 2001
- Currently employee 60 employees
- Privately held company until merger (bad imo) w CPRK
- 94,000,000 A/S and O/S
- Key investors; Southworth Companies and former principal of Alta Capital
- Independent appraisel of approx 5000 acres approx $20B-Joseph Dunlop SLC, UT)
- Engaged Hatch Engineering 2007 and 2008 for feasibility report-very favorable. www.hatch.ca/ (world class firm)
- Approx $40m+ invested in equipment and infastructure
- Need approx $5-$10m to finish mill
- Mill start up approx August 2008
- Currently negociating w 2 companies for long term financing for approx $90m+; one is household name; other is not. One is debt and the other is equity; both have visited operations
- Milford Mineral Belt has been mined for 200 years. Past operations ceased due to claim/ownership issues, metal prices and lack of resources. It is flush w high grade minerals still.
- Since 1980, Dotson has been securing full mineral ownership of 100,000 acres
About CPRK / Merger
- Owned approx 2000 acres / Drum Mtn flush w gold but was years away from production. Value estimated around $1-2B
- WB was going to pump company w promotion, video, O Hurley etc. WUCC made story more interesting but hype not important or effective;
- WB sold WUCC/Dotson on merger to raise additional capital. Strategy backfired due to WB; misinformation...imo he is out
- Dee Allred, president CPRK, along for the ride, Dotson/WUCC in control (now).
- 325m+ O/S
- Non reporting pinky; basically don't have to tell as much
About Capitalization
- 1.8B current O/S; 2.5B A/S; O/S will continued to increase as the company sells RESTRICTED stock to finance operations until permanant financing (2-6 weeks); approx 4m shr per week
- 60M in float (per transfer agent- 10m purchased by me and friends in the past 3 months)
- Insiders own approx 80% and are not dumping or selling..can't...they are restricted shares; bound by rule 144 when unrestricted in approx 1 year.
- Reason for increase of O/S shares last month was the conversion of WUCC shares to CPRK (approx 16 to 1 - not a bad thing, WUCC was 20+ times more valuable (imo 50+) than CPRK and WUCC was months away from production; CPRK was not)
About Valuation
- $20B appraisel on 5% of property
- Two mining valuations I found in articles on internet
- #1 P/E ratio (obvious); WUCC projects $150,000,000 in profits (2009/2010); using 2B shares and a 20 multiple; earnings per share is: .075; stock price is: $1.50 (BTW, Dotson is committed to IMMEDIATE dividends...maybe .01 or .02)
- #2 Tonage valuation (from article) very complex but assumption is to take approx 10% of value of property as current valuation; @$20B (low) stock price is: $1.00
Ok, enough already but thats my read on it. I have pictures and other info and will answer any questions with facts and information as accurately as I can.