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falon anything is possible, but we don't know because they omitted this from every PR. This is speculation, just as I am speculating. I'm sure they could, but I doubt it. Like I said, I really hope I'm wrong, but based on what they haven't omitted from the PR's, it seems to me that all of ENZC's talent and IP are moving to new company.
Yes on first question, NO on shares. Until they tell us we don't know. All we have to go off of is the info they've shared so far. In regards to the pps, you are wrong. The lower the ENZC pps, the more ENZC shares it takes to equal 1 SAGA share.
falon - All I'm doing is taking the info that they've given us and interpreting it.
What do we know from shared information?
1. Charles, Chandra, Kristen are moving to new company.
2. BGEN & VIRO are moving to and will be owned 100% by SAGA
3. Our AI platform belongs to BGEN, so once BGEN moves to SAGA, so does the AI platform.
What don't we know and/or what was omitted from the PR's/shared information?
1. Without Charles, Chandra, Kristen, and the AI platform, what happens to ENZC? What happens to ENZC commons?
I will say that this deal could turn out to be amazing for all of us, but because of the omitted info, we don't know. They've omitted it in every single PR that has come out about the SAGA deal. Why? As far them using their IP to support SAGA, I believe that is very unlikely. If that were the case, I don't believe our C-Level team would be moving to the new Co.
Again, I don't know what's going to happen, but until they tell us, the above is all we have to go off of.
In regards to being held down, if the number of SAGA shares that we get are determined by using the RS calculation (SAGA at 10.90 & ENZC at .048 = 1:227), then the lower they hold the pps, the less SAGA shares we would get.
rockie - I think you were missing my point. I'm sure that ENZC shareholders will move with them to some degree, but what is that degree? As I just posted in a reply to Dyno, SAGA's pps is at 10.90 and we're at .048, so it takes 227 ENZC shares to equal the value of 1 SAGA share. My point being is that how they're going to determine our shares in the new company? They have intentionally omitted what happens with ENZC, and more specifically ENZC commons, in every PR about this deal.
Would you be happy after holding all of this time and/or view it as "good," if they were to move all of us into the new company at 1/227th of your current shares?
Once again, I cannot stress just how much I hope I am wrong here, but until they clarify, this is what I'm left to think/believe.
My bad Dyno, I was just making a point that it seems we (ENZC commons) are going to get screwed on this deal. The lower they hold ENZC, the less SAGA shares we end up with. To clarify, I don't believe we'll get a 1:1 for one second. I don't believe we'll end up with anymore shares than what we would via RS to arrive at SAGA's pps. As it stands right now, if SAGA is $10.90 and we are .048, it would be the equivalent of a 1:227 RS. I personally have not held through all of this to end up with 1:227 RS (Thats how I view it). How many times has Chandra tweeted (in permanent ink on the internet) that ENZC will explode? He's also replied to people talking about buying yachts when ENZC finally hit, implying to be patient it would come. These are statements that lead people/shareholders to believe that we would see enormous growth in ENZC, not in another company where we hold 1/227th of the shares we hold in ENZC
I'm not so sure that ENZC will continue on. If they do, with who as their C-Level Exec team? Charles, Chandra, Kristin are going to new Co. Also, with what IP will we continue? It seems that is all going too.
Again, I can't even put into words how much that I hope I am wrong here, because this 3+ year journey has been hell, just to end up getting screwed, but the consistent omission of what happens to us/ENZC/commons, does not give me comfort.
Thanks Coach. Honestly I’m just wondering what happens to us commons? If we end up with same qty of shares we own in ENZC, I’m good. If we end up with 1/1000th, I would begin looking into what legal routes/options we have. I just don’t get comfort from the continued omission of what happens to ENZC/commons.
rockie - From my understanding, Charles, Chandra, Kristin are all moving to the new company, along with what seems to be all of ENZC's IP. Are we (ENZC commons) moving to the new company with the same amount of shares that we own in ENZC? Or have we held for 3+ years through a nonstop bloodbath for the equivalent of a RS?
I'm not saying that's what's going to happen, but the fact they intentionally omit what happens with ENZC/us, does not give me comfort. I hope to God that I am wrong!
And just as big, if not bigger concern, is:
If Charles, Chandra, Kristen, etc... are all moving to the new company, where does leave ENZC; and again, specifically us commons?
And in the meantime, as we once again wait for more clarity of whether we're (commons) getting screwed or not, it seems that the control of our pps will continue, and still not allowed to move up. So based solely on the new $450M price tag, we continue to sit undervalued by more than 300%.
Catpole, Im not necessarily viewing today's news as good for us/commons. With every PR about this SAGA deal they INTENTIONALLY omit what happens to ENZC. What does ENZC even own after the deal, and who is left on our C-level Mgmt Team? It seems to me that they are all moving to BGEN & VIRO, along with all of the IP. The same IP that we've all been holding through a 2.5+ year bloodbath for, to see to come to fruition/realize it's true value.
What happens ENZC? As I just posted, whether or not $450M is a good price is totally dependent on what happens to ENZC and/or what IP will ENZC own after this deal? I have not held for 3+ years, passed over millions of dollars, just to end up with 1/100th - 1/1000th of the shares I currently hold, in a new company that's valued higher. .
Dyno, and everyone here, this is exactly why I have been so salty and worried about this deal. They never tell us what happens to ENZC? Based on what is said in the PR, it seems the AI is IP of BGEN, not ENZC. So once this deal goes though, ENZC no longer owns the AI platform. The fact that they continue to intentionally omit details about what the plan is for ENZC, is 100% cause for concern.
Whether or not $450M is a good price for this and/or for shareholders is 100% dependent on what happens to ENZC. $450M puts the pps around .16, but then we no longer own the AI platform. Once again, this is exactly why I've been asking about how anyone can view our mgmt team moving to BGEN & VIRO as a good thing? I hope I'm dead wrong here, but what it leads me to believe that commons are all gonna end up with the equivalent of an RS, without actually doing an RS. We'll get shares in SAGA, but will likely be somewhere around 1/100th to 1/1000th of the shares we hold in ENZC. I really hope I'm wrong here, but why are they intentionally ommitting what happens with ENZC? Do we even own any IP at all after this deal?
The funds are to be used by BGEN to complete the production of and test species-specific monoclonal antibodies (mAbs) for treating COVID-19, HIV, and Feline Leukemia. The funding will significantly enhance BGEN's drug discovery capabilities using its proprietary, cutting-edge Artificial Intelligence (AI) technology and enlarge its IP portfolio while also expanding the AI platform's capabilities to advance health care from that based on reactive disease care to P4 medicine, namely care that is predictive, preventive, personalized and participatory.
Unbelievable! So PUMA, OTCN, and INTL weren’t enough, so now STXG is back. This is getting ridiculous! I have no doubt those 68M are about to hit us…. God forbid we move out of the intentionally undervalued range. Can’t have that!
Valuator - I've been thinking about this, and I believe it's very plausible that they were in talks back in Oct 2022 (When PUMA took control). I believe that May 23rd, 2023 was SAGA's 6th 1-month extension, which would put their first extension around Dec 23rd, 2022. If this is correct, then the deal went into effect on/around November 23rd, 2022. So they would've only needed to be in talks 1.5 months prior to Nov 23rd, 2022, which I believe is very possible.
As I've said, I'm convinced that whoever is behind PUMA is in the "friend" category, and this would make sense. I believe somebody posted yesterday stating that with each extension SAGA has to pay somewhere around 57K, but if PUMA is getting them a couple million shares each month down here at these ridiculous pps levels, if/when they finally allow our pps to move to an accurate valuation, all of those $57K payments would be a drop in the bucket.
Anyway, just a thought as we continue watching PUMA control this for going on 10 months now. On a separate note, I'm really hoping that AEXG isn't here to dump those newly unrestricted 68Mil shares. Today is only the 3rd day they've been here, and they haven't been very active yet, so it just makes me wonder why they showed up.....
Good for you buddy. I personally have never owned a stock where I was glad when it continues getting destroyed. Although on the flip side, I've also never been in a stock that has taken the kind of beating that we have here.
Dogone I don't like any more than you or the next person, but its true. I don't know why whoever is in control wants this down, but they do. Heres another example. OTCN drops the ask to .0464, and JANE, who never sells a single share, immediately drops to the second lowest ask at .0476. She's not going to sell a single share at .0476, but drops there anyway to force others to sell lower if they want to sell. Nobody can say that JANE is "making a market," when she simply never buys or sells, but very frequently drops her ask as low as she can, without being the lowest.
It just never ends, and reliving this same unaddressed BS for 2.5+ out of the 3+ I've been holding, takes its toll...
befast - This chart is our life day in day out. We have a lower market cap now, than before IPF. We have lower market now than we did before the $250M deal was announced. We are and have been literally devalued with every PR. Every piece of good news. We can agree to disagree, but this just isn't normal.
I always revert back to Jan 2022 & Apr/May 2023, because those two instances were the worst and most obvious control/manipulation that I've ever seen. VIRT/OTCN appeared the second we break .10 (both times), ran a perfectly synced up algo without buying or selling any shares, and instead just used those algos to control both the ask and bid until they drove it comfortably back under .10. The way I interpret this is that the resulting pps is artificial & intentionally lower/undervalued.
Also, every day the majority of the lowest asks and top bid are all non-retail MM's, who can sit there with magical never ending 10K asks all day, while they sit on the bid and wait for people to give them shares at this ridiculous pps.
It makes zero sense. For 2.5+ years straight, we have been artificially devalued with every PR/good news. I have never seen anything even close to it; and yes, I really hope that one of these days (before somebody else beats us to market/finish line, before we die of old age) we see something/it's cleared up. Until then, Groundhog Day is in full effect, losing more value each day.
Your guess is as good as mine.
Yeah I know. Honestly, I could care less about the delays, missed milestones, muzzle, "monumental shift that never happened," etc.... What bothers me is that our pps has been artificially devalued for God only knows what purpose, for 2.5+ years, and it's gone completely unaddressed by Charles & Co. for full 2.5+ years. The $250M deal puts this around 0.08, yet we're trading lower now than we were before the deal was mentioned. Commons Shareholders have seen nothing but a 900 day sinking value of their investment (due to illegal coordination/control), and Charles & Co. can't be bothered to address it.
Yes/No. Because they are not SEC reporting, there are several rules he doesn't need to abide by. For example, once SEC reporting, he would be required to disclose ALL MATERIAL EVENTS within 96 hours via 8K (anything covered by NDA would remain covered and not have to be disclosed). However, because he's still sitting on SEC reporting, he can sit on all material events as long as he wishes. There are other rules that come with SEC reporting, but this one is easiest to give as example.
Awesome! We can definitely use some more selling/dumping, because we haven't seen enough of that over the past 2.5+ years. Wondering if thats why AEXG joined the party yesterday? Haven't seen them selling too much yet, but also haven't seen them here since Feb 2021.
LOL.... (Through the power of Greyskull).... I hear ya.... Truthfully, since they really haven't given us any details on what happens to us/for us (ENZC Commons), we can only speculate as usual. One day (hopefully we're all still alive and haven't died of old age) maybe they'll drop a tangible, non-fluff, non-regurgitated PR that does something for us, and clarifies the millions of questions they've created via all other PR's... Until then, I'm gonna go have some fun counting blades of grass... (more fun than 2.5+ year Groundhog Day here)
SA - I could be wrong, but if I'm not mistaken I believe that $105B projection was based only on a small % of the total market. I believe it was actually fairly conservative. However, I could be wrong, as I can remember everything from 30-40 years ago, just can't remember what happened yesterday...LOL...
doc, this is why it's so frustrating. We know that the value of Clone 3/HIV by itself puts the pps over $3, without factoring in AI, ITV1, IPF, and any of the other irons supposedly in the fire. Seeing as how the muzzle has prevented us from hearing anything about Clone 3 for about 2 years now, I wouldn't expect us to realize that full value yet, but to think that we shouldn't be trading a an absolute minimum of 10% (0.30+) of that C3/HIV valuation is absurd.
ENZC is well undervalued, as many here have said. Each time I've read an ENZC value speculation, current pricing should be around .40-.57c pps. A lot of calculations were in there, but there was also some consensus amongst the few that bothered to take a close look at it, best they could do.
Anything's possible CK, but I don't believe it's BOD. I'm convinced it's either SAGA or an undisclosed partner. 2.5+ years of a nonstop beatdown, where we're devalued with every PR and/or piece of good news, 2.5+ years of nonstop control, and it's gone completely unaddressed by Charles Co. for the full 2.5+ years. In my mind, there is no possibility whatsoever of an "enemy" being behind it.
Anyway, is what is at this point. I really just hope Charles's muzzle doesn't allow somebody else to beat them.
As for today, it appears to be another exciting Groundhog Day of PUMA, OTCN, and INTL control; and we can't forget about our typical & guaranteed pre-10:30 takedown, as it wouldn't be Groundhog Day without it. OTCN stops us from staying at 05 or above, at all costs, and if/when they bow out, PUMA re-takes control. Then as always, we see the usual non-retail MM's (PUMA, OTCN, INTL, JANE) stack under 05 as quickly as they can. As I've said before, I just hate to imagine where we'd be if we never saw that "Monumental Shift.." Oops... Silly me! I keep forgetting it's going on 16 months since Chandra told us about the "Monumental Shift" coming in 6-12 months, and we still haven't seen it....LOL....
Maybe, but nothing would surprise with this ticker anymore. I am convinced that PUMA has controlled this stock for roughly 9 months straight (with exception to the rise to .13 & the VIRT/OTCN coordinated takedown afterwards, and the short 1-2 weeks where PUMA/INTL destroyed us), and somebody is behind it, who I believe to be a "friend." The way I see it, there are only a 3 real possibilities:
1. SAGA
2. Undisclosed or Future Partner
3. Enemy/Competitor
The coordination that I've seen between VIRT+OTCN/X, PUMA, & INTL tells me that something is going on. Like I've said many times, I have never witnessed this level of control for this length of time in any other ticker I was involved with; nor have I ever been involved with a ticker that was devalued with every PR & piece of good news. It doesn't make any sense, and the VIRT+OTCN/X tag-team (on 2 separate occasions 2022/2023) takes the cake. I still can't believe that it hasn't been addressed/they get away with it. The fact that all of this has gone unaddressed for so long, is the main reason I believe it to be a "friend" behind the control.
LOL... FWIW I didn't know either rockie, I just looked it up. It said it was an eye drug jointly-developed by Regeneron & Bayer. It would be nice if the next news we heard about Regeneron involved ENZC. We desperately need something of significance here to break us free of this 2.5+ year strangle-hold that they've had us in. It is LONG OVERDUE!
It's an eye drug rockie, so it doesn't really align with anything ENZC is said to be developing.
Correct, and I believe we've got another 4 months of holding us at this ridiculous & severely/intentionally undervalued pps. I think they'll drag this out as long as they can, using every extension possible.
MAGA_PATRIOT
Member Level
Re: MAGA_PATRIOT post# 180161
Tuesday, June 27, 2023 11:26:12 AM
Post#
180164
of 180193
Also, one more thing I was thinking about the delay. I've started to wonder if PUMA is operating on behalf of SAGA? They have been in full control since Oct 2022, and the SAGA deal had to be in the works/negotiations for several months prior to them announcing anything, so I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that PUMA is/has been controlling/loading/stealing retail shares for SAGA.
Anyway, just a thought. We're going on 9 months straight of PUMA control, with exception of a 1-2 week period where PUMA allowed OTCN & INTL to destroy us before they retook control. This is part of the reason I believe they're gonna drag this out til the very end.... I just hope they all realize how much risk this delay (extended muzzle/silence) puts ENZC at, giving competitors much more time to beat them/us to the finish line.
Thx Timing. However, this is what makes me wonder about the future value of ENZC for ENZC commons. What is to become of ENZC after this deal? Like I've said many times, I'm for getting dividends in SAGA (once they own BGEN/VIRO), but the shares that we might get via dividends will come nowhere even close to the qty's we hold in ENZC. In other words, we're not getting a 1 for 1 (1 div share for every 1 ENZC share owned). I have been holding ENZC for 3+ years because we were led to believe that ENZC would explode in value. These moves to BGEN really worry me about what Charles plan for ENZC is, as well as the future value of ENZC.
Now BIOGENYSIS is the ONE TO REALLY WATCH. Why , it has Dr. Chandra leading it as the appointed CEO , it has DR Joseph Cotropia now as the Chief Science Officer (CSO) , it now has Dr Kirsten Bischof as the New Chief Information Officer (CIO) and it has Dr Suraj Saggar on the Advisory Board with them .
That is a REAL STRONG TEAM and if you re-read the link below Samsung, AI Value , lets repeat that go to where new CIO Officer Dr Kirsten Bischof says "Collaborating with others on OUR AI PLATFORM " Benefits.
What I keep saying Do NOT Underestimate the VALUE of the AI that has been developed by Chandra and Bischof who are considered experts in their field.
Also, one more thing I was thinking about the delay. I've started to wonder if PUMA is operating on behalf of SAGA? They have been in full control since Oct 2022, and the SAGA deal had to be in the works/negotiations for several months prior to them announcing anything, so I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that PUMA is/has been controlling/loading/stealing retail shares for SAGA.
Anyway, just a thought. We're going on 9 months straight of PUMA control, with exception of a 1-2 week period where PUMA allowed OTCN & INTL to destroy us before they retook control. This is part of the reason I believe they're gonna drag this out til the very end.... I just hope they all realize how much risk this delay (extended muzzle/silence) puts ENZC at, giving competitors much more time to beat them/us to the finish line.
I know they wanted to renegotiate for more, but truthfully, I personally am not sure how much ENZC's current valuation (intentionally and IMO illegally undervalued by a ridiculous amount) comes into play, as it pertains to the SAGA deal. I say this because to the best of my knowledge, the only tech/IP held by BGEN & VIRO is licensed to them, not owned by them. So it seems to me that SAGA is purchasing 2 companies that have only licensed tech, so SAGA will own 100% of the companies, but not the tech/IP itself. In other words they are purchasing the ability to use that tech for profit based on the potential of Clone 3 & ITV1.
Or at least that is my understanding, and why I was asking yesterday how Chandra being CEO of one of them can be viewed as good for us, ENZC commons?
The NDA's protect the company's Intellectual Property/tech. However, it doesn't protect them from somebody else/competitor developing their own IP and beating them/us to the finish line. As I've stated many times on here, given the BP has unlimited funds, resources, and corrupt politicians/bureaucrats, that is my biggest concern.
Below is an example of what I'm talking about with BP/corrupt bureaucrats. This is what we're up against, and why I continuously say that every second of muzzle/silence counts.
I'm not sure I understand you. Protected from what?
Well, it appears they successfully dropped to and held the artificial 05 ceiling. There was no way that they were going to allow this to close over 05. At this point I'm guessing we won't see 05s again until/unless we get a non-fluff PR, or until they drive the pps down far enough to push into oversold.... I really hope I'm wrong, but I guess we'll see...
It truly is unbelievable that we're almost a full 6 months into 2023 and we're trading in the 04's. $250M deal on the table, but trading at $150M market cap. Things that make you go hmmmmm? Sure could use that "Monumental Shift" right about now...