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I'm still long and strong. Not as 100% sure as I was before yesterday but what the heck, no guts no glory...
On one hand I still definitely believe in the product and the long term potential but on the other it was definitely a big mistake just accumulating and never selling anything.
That's right. Maybe immediately firing him is not the best solution, since maybe he could sue, maybe his contract was up anyway, maybe he's not guilty, maybe they just need a PR guy etc etc but there was no reason at all to actually point out that he's doing an amazing job. And the words investigation or looking into things are nowhere to be found. What the PR says is everything is perfect, nothing to see here, move along. That's the last thing the investors (or any party involved in any way) of a penny stock want to hear. Maybe a larger company can survive one principal being accused of corruption in some way but a company this small, you better be putting out PRs every hour about how worried you are, how you are looking into it and how anyone found guilty of anything will be terminated immediately. The only thing it said is specifically he's doing great and will continue to be employed... I'm surprised the pps held as good as it did, it's a great sign. They have the weekend to really consider their position and do better on monday. Much better.
Yeah I really don't think we'll see 02s. With some news monday (which they better come up with) we'll be back around 06 pretty easy.
Yeah, it may be worth selling another 10mil shares for the increased awareness (and pps) that some better worded and timed PRs would bring.
At the same time, they're not that close to production, could be 6 months from what they are saying. Maybe they will go that route later in the year.
If the longs were selling this would be 0.0001. Under 4M volume is NOTHING, there's plenty of people that have that just on their own. And there are investors who don't even know about this board. It will go up just as fast when things cool off. Always has.
Seems to be going in the opposite direction a little bit... Anything under 4 I'm getting more. But we really need some PRs, either specifically about this monkey business or at least about things in general, preferably both. In the last month we only had one PR saying they went to the conference in Asia, which we already knew anyway.
Exactly. A proper company would throw a guy under the bus even if they knew 100% that he is innocent just to make investors happy and to protect their image. These guys did not address his innocence in any way. Either say yes he did bad stuff and if that is the case he needs to go, regardless how amazing a job he does (which he doesn't really but anyway...) or say no, we are keeping him because we have this and this information that shows the AMF is wrong and he's clean. If you don't know anything one way or another you have to at least suspend him and say you are investigating everything. If his contract really ends in a week and if they plan to let him go after that then ok, that might make sense. But anything other than that is just completely unprofessional. Future customers, manufacturers and other partners will not be impressed, as won't possible and current investors.
Sure would be. But it won't happen. Unless they make him "voluntarily" resign. Maybe that is their plan. Are you listening Wanderport, that is your plan...
If he did nothing wrong he doesn't want to also lose his job over this, it's bad enough they got him in trouble for nothing. If he did do fishy stuff then he couldn't care less about the company and investors, either way he won't do it on his own.
By not even suspending him they're essentially saying it is ok or not a big deal to insider trade... If they want to become a "real company" they have to behave like one. I'd like to see GE keep a guy around and praise him while he's investigated.
Exactly. The guy is under investigation and not only you keep him around but say he's doing an amazing job??? It's basically his fault that the price is tanking the way it is. It's his fault that when someone googling WDRP finds some fraud investigation. That's great IR, yeah, commendable... Maybe they need him until they find someone else... Or maybe they're all doing that type of stuff in the company... So they don't think it's a big deal.
It's true their PRs sucked, both the wording and the timing until now. But on the other hand people protest if they try to dilute the stock to hire a proper, big company to do IR. But if Andrew really is involved in anything fishy it's a given he needs to go, no doubt.
I don't see how they can know what he was doing in his spare time... If he was doing anything illegal i'm sure he was not advertising it to everyone he knew... I really hope they come out with an official position on this. Just ignoring it would be the worst thing ever. Are you listening Wanderport!?
At this point it's far from obvious that there is any problem with the company itself. So lets not get ahead of ourselves. I've seen lots of scams before and this one, while it might not be as squeaky clean as we were hoping, is definitely different. It had drops like this before, came right back up.
Hopefully they don't handle it like the other times it crashed with rumors going around, when they said absolutely nothing... Already they seem to not even be reachable. Even if this whole mess is not their fault in any way it's still up to them to handle it professionally and provide some explanations.
So... As far as we can tell there is a chance that some people have been involved in manipulating the stock price. How does that lead to the heavy selling? Are some of those pump companies forced to sell? If not why would retail investors sell, wouldn't the end of manipulation be something good for the stock? Would it not let it go up? Or was the price pumped all along and they are now afraid it will fall to it's "real" level? I'm really wondering...
Ugh... Got 75k more shares but way higher than I could have. This sucks big time. Have 100k more to buy before 1.5M but then that's it, no more buying.
At this point they must come up with some sort of statement explaining what is happening and who is involved. If they don't things could get really ugly tomorrow.
I'm buying more, mayb as much as 150k shares. Hope i'm not going to regret this. Something is definitely up, either a glitch or something happening. If you have millions to sell you don't just dump them in one go...
Technically speaking it would be watt-hours that count. But since the voltage is the same, unless the unit stays on significantly less time than a traditional electric tankless unit it would come down to the amps.
Yeah those numbers sound pretty realistic. Not as nice as the other numbers though :). Only thing I don't understand is why remove 40% of that 100 that is their gain for each heater. Why could the expenses not be covered already by the 320 we already removed?
Also, I don't really remember, where did we come up with the 100 per heater gain? I know I saw that in posts before but I'm wondering what it's based on originally. For all we know they could find a way to manufacture this for $50 per unit, have various other expenses for another $50 per unit and all else is profit. Or they may barely be able to squeeze a $10-15 profit per unit, at least at first.
I think the bottom line is at this point it's too early to tell. If it really takes off they could sell far more than a million in five years worldwide. Or just as possible they may not even get all the contracts they have letters of intent for (or whatever they have). The gap between the worst case and best case scenarios is still pretty huge. But we should have a much better idea in 2-3 months how things will go.
Again, I was talking about August, not the long run. For a $1 pps the company would be worth 640 million. That is rather high. I know some pretty big companies, with hundreds of employees, tens of years old that are not worth that. And half a billion in sales is a fairly big assumption right there. I think that assuming the very best case scenario, where the product is amazing, the profit margin is there, the marketing is right, they find all the buyers, they find all the production capabilities, it holds up well in everyday use by large numbers of users and so on, yes $1 and even $5 is definitely possible, no doubt about it. But that is a lot of ifs right there. Who knows, I could be wrong, technically in 20-30 years this could be the next GE. Everyone starts somewhere small.
At the rate WDRP moves with everything $1 by the end of the year just will not happen. That's pretty much a fact. In the long run it may well reach that, very hard to tell at this point. I was talking about August and yes I don't believe anything can happen by the end of it that would put us way over 10c.
I really don't think there will be a month that is "the month" or a day that is "the day" or a PR that is "the PR". This isn't one of those cancer cure med pennies where the result of a trial sends it up or down by huge amounts. Maybe very very good efficiency numbers would cause a jump but overall I think the more pieces fall into place the more the price will slowly go up and even if there are spikes it will go back down before it moves up more. Even very good news could easily be followed by a sell the news scenario since this is a pretty small stock and even many of the longs already have fairly good profits, which would keep the pps from shooting up. I may be wrong, I obviously hope I am and it shoots way up but I think it will take many months, maybe years, for the very top to be reached. If something special does happen in August it might push it to 10c, maybe 12, but not to some huge level.
They seem to stick to one a week lately. So if it's not tomorrow then Friday seems very likely...
Umm I didn't say anything about MMs.
And yes, it's pretty much what you'd expect in this waiting period, light selling, which is always there for various reasons, people needing money, moving on, etc and no buying because there's still no finished product, numbers, production etc. There's no massive selling and it won't drop too far. Plenty of people will get in on the dips.
I used to sweat the day to day changes a lot and get frustrated that the price would drop and the company kept silent but lately I think people who say ignore the day to day stuff are right. Maybe they weren't right back then when things were still unclear but they definitely are now. At this point we know 99% the product will happen and once that does 10c is pretty much guaranteed. So even with a high average it's still a double for most people, far better for many. If in the mean time the price goes up, great, more green, better starting position for when it takes off. If it dips, also great, better opportunities to pick up more.
They could get even hotter in a few days...
Next couple of weeks will probably be like this. Lots of stuff they need to get done before everything falls into place. Until then not much reason to buy, not much reason to sell, we just wait.
I honestly don't think it's that surprising the pps is dropping a bit and i expect it to continue for the short term. There will always be some sellers that just need the cash or want to move on, some shorters etc. And right now nobody has a good reason to buy, nothing major is about to happen. I have some cash I'm waiting to put in but I'll give it a couple more weeks.
In terms of potential the company is through the roof, best case scenario is VERY good and the risks of something very bad, a show-stopper, happening are very very low but in terms of 100% proven technology or sales and revenue etc they don't really have anything yet. So it's not that surprising the big money isn't pouring in yet. It will happen, good opportunity to pick up more before it does.
Overall a great update, a little thin on the actual news but things are definitely moving along in all areas...
From what I understand they seem to not have any plans to market the single cavity heater... The section that talks about future plans for phase III only talks about the multi-cavity version. "Make use of the completed "level one" MCMHU to secure a manufacturing and financing agreement." Maybe it was meant as a testing prototype only and can't handle real-life water volumes?
They talk about updating the heat exchanger design and replacing the electronics so we may have some waiting to do. I don't think the 3-4 months estimate people came up with is being pessimistic, if anything given their record so far it's optimistic. But since we know the thing works it makes it much easier to wait. A possible pps dip may actually be a good thing.
They actually talk about UL approval, not just getting advice from them which is great news. Going to Asia and networking there at the conference also shows they think they are reasonably close to production. They weren't doing any of that during last year. Everything else was mostly restating existing facts.
Like other posters said, a game plan for the next couple of years with rough timelines would be great. Same for a possible product lineup with maybe some sales estimates. I suppose maybe it is too early for that.
Yeah, as soon as it hit 05 there's 1 mil ask, no way will it drop to 025. With no news it will drop a bit more but at this point waiting is risky. Next news could be "real" news and it could jump to 10 easy.
Lately I've been pretty idle, nothing to pick on :) . They seem to be doing much better when it comes to transparency. Still not everything is obvious but more is coming out all the time. And this is just small fish, can't wait for the really big stuff.
One thing that would be good from them would be a description of their (intended) product range, what sizes of heaters they plan to come out with and where each would be used, for example single cavity on a single point of use, multi cavity level one for one entire room, multi cavity level two for entire house, commercial 1, 2, 3 for various sized uses, if they have anything for mobile applications, like boats, RVs etc. I think that would press the right buttons with investors and give a good idea of just how much this company could be worth. If they can also put some sales estimates next to those that would make a really killer PR.
August is definitely possible but i'd say full production by the end of the year is more realistic.
I'm sure it will move far faster than until now. But worse case scenario, with changes to the prototype, more testing, certifications etc. could be six months pretty easily. Maybe as much as a year to being on the shelves out there. Best case scenario UL is done in two weeks, have a manufacturer in another two and the first batch is ready in another month. But I'm pretty sure it will take longer than that.
$2/shr is 1.3 billion. Before any production it sounds like a lot. The efficiency numbers would have to be where this becomes the new standard of the world. Not out of the question but...
I'm not too sure what else they have left to PR... Efficiency numbers aren't coming for a while, until the product is more final, UL won't come back with anything for at least a couple of weeks, they haven't been pursuing more contracts lately... Then again they had nothing to say for a year and a half and that didn't stop them PR-ing every 3 weeks so... they'll probably find something no problem.
It would be nice if they told us what the road-map is at this point. What exactly UL will do at this stage, what they will do once they get the product back, if they need to do other testing and certification etc. If it needs to go back to UL once it's production-ready and so on. At the moment lots of good things are coming out but it's not really clear what the next stages are and roughly how long they'll take.
Sounds good! We're in a good place now. If they keep up the momentum the pps should move very nicely these months. Even if they go off the radar again for a couple of months the dip would be a good buying opportunity. Barring any very unlikely major problems it's a win-win.
Yeah my guess for a close was 5.5 to 6c this morning. It's better this way, no spikes. Few more days like this would add up very nicely. And anyway the best news is yet to come, UL testing finished, production ready, efficiency numbers, manufacturer selected, published in journals, sales etc. Plenty of opportunities for the price to go way up. Latest PR was great but really, once they had said they were sending the prototype to UL it was a given the thing works and heats water. The best is yet to come.
Hmm last PR I have on etrade is the May 17th one... None of the other ones.
Yeah I noticed that too. And they used to post all of the PRs, no exception as far as i remember. I wonder why...
Yeah I agree, they're saying they can very quickly get to the temperature point they need to be at and even higher. I'm sure keeping the temperature below the legal point isn't an issue at all. Raising it fast enough is the hard part and it seems they can do it.