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Maybe it's time to up the meds.
I've seen crazier things. But I would still be amazed if this thing hits 10 let alone 20. Maxlife is on the radar and not in a good way. If the pigs aren't taking profits here, they'll end up being bacon. I can't think of another stock as ripe right now for a dramatic tumble.
Not that it matters at all but this stock would be overvalued at 1 cent.
NYC,
Your rear-view mirror is working really well. Now, what's the view out through the windshield?
Btw, we have a lot in common. I post on stocks and they get killed and so do you.
FXPE investors. Wanna see your future?
Look at the charts of TNEN (late '06 to early '07), SCEY, and SGCR. Fraser's pumps always end up this way.
Easy there sparky. They might take it to $500 million or higher. CFUL had a market cap of over $2 billion until recently. With reg sho, the crackdown on naked shorting, and SEC watchdogs asleep at their desks, we live in a new golden age of stock scams.
Who they gonna sell to? It's all paper money.
Why not?
I'm not privy to that kind of info and find it fascinating.
Know anything about the folks behind it?
Agree 100% about Maxlife.
Let's assume for a moment that UIUC's technology really is an important solar breakthrough. OCTL had leverage to sign an exclusive deal with them before the breakthrough was made. But what is UIUC's incentive to partner exclusively with Octillion now? Octillion is just Rayat, the new CEO (who is also the CEO of another of Rayat's ventures), and a board member. That's it. There's no production expertise or infrastructure. There's no marketing expertise or infrastructure. There's no track record of anything. If UIUC really has the best thing since sliced bread, do you really think they would entrust it to Rayat in an exclusive deal?
Even if they would, they're not stupid enough to leave untold riches on the table. UIUC will negotiate the best deal it can for itself. There will be no windfall for OCTL and its measly $200k investment.
Raven announced the submission of a 43-101. One can only guess what it contains because it isn't on the website or Edgar. But given that Raven hasn't done any drilling, I think we can say with confidence that the 43-101-compliant estimate of the resource is zero. American Stellar Energy, (they had an option on the property that they didn't exercise), had a technical report on La Currita prepared in October 2005. Here's a snip:
The project does not contain mineral reserves as defined by NI43‐101 or SEC Industry Guide No. 7. To develop mineral reserves, the project first requires the development of at least an NI43‐101 compliant indicated mineral resource before further upgrading to a mineral reserve by conducting studies of mining, metallurgical, geotechnical, environmental, economic, social, governmental and
capital and operating cost factors.
There is lots of go information in the report, not all of it bad by the way. But today's news begs the question. What is the point of announcing a 43-101 if you haven't done any work on the property since the last report? Lipstick for a pig, methinks.
One final note: Tara acquired La Currita for a mere $1.2mm.
LAS VEGAS, Sept 18, 2007 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX/ --
Raven Gold Corp. (OTCBB: RVNG) (the "Company"), is pleased to announce that it has filed its National Instrument 43-101 Report with the appropriate regulatory bodies.
David Petersen, P. Eng. has acted as the qualified person as identified by National Instrument 43-101, and reviewed and verified the technical content of this release.
Go ahead and downplay Exmin. With its small market cap, proven resource, imminent low-cost production, sterling partners and huge exploration upside, it has something that Raven doesn't: leverage. Raven is a one-trick pony with only a 25% interest in La Currita. To increase that interest to 60%, Raven has to spend over $4mm and deliver a million shares. So at current prices, La Currita has a value of over $130 million. That seems more than a bit rich given what has been demonstrated about the property so far.
As for your contention that Palmarejo's deposit trends onto La Currita, that is less impressive than it seems. La Currita borders the Las Animas area. Palmarejo's results there have been less impressive than in Guadalupe and elsewhere.
Still a long, long way to fall.
>>Still a long, long way to fall.
Palmarejo's property is 10x bigger. And even if the same mineralization does run onto Raven's tiny property (no guarantee), it will take years and millions of dollars (which means dilution) in drilling to prove it. Ever heard of the opportunity cost of capital?
Your financing theory is bunk. If it's such a great idea, find me a real company that does it this way.
Your evidence for it being cheap is shallower than a puddle. The high of 1.80 is totally irrelevant. That was a promotion-driven frenzy. You advertise anything in newspapers, on CNBC, mailers, faxes etc and it will go up. As for the mill expansion, are you kidding? 150 tpd mill. 150!!! lol
Your only data point is Palmarejo. That's all you got. You ignore the promotion, the people behind the deal, the highly questionable press releases, and comparables in the market. And you signed up on IHUB just to post on this one stock. I think it's pretty obvious what your angle is.
Still a long, long way to fall.
Perhaps it's worth more than $250k, but does that make it worth $75 million?
They have an interest in some property (minority interest, btw). They have an interest in a mill. Big deal. There are hundreds of companies on the venture that can boast as much and more yet trade for a lot less than RVNG.
Yes, there is no dilution...so far. That's cause they just keep piling on more debt. I fail to see how this is a positive. No serious mining company operates this way. FACT: If they really are serious about developing this (if there is anything to develop), they will need to raise some serious cash.
But all this talk about fundamentals really misses the point, doesn't it? This stock has very little to do with gold or silver or the mill. It's all about the promotion. Millions were spent. You think the folks behind that expect a return on their investment?
Lastly, you say the stock is cheap. Based on what, exactly? Lets compare to Exmin (EXM.v) which I own.
- Like RVNG, properties located in Mexico
- Mkt cap: ~$30mm (less than half RVNG's)
- Joint ventures with the best partners in Mexico, Penoles and Hochschild, as well as Yale Resources. (compare to Raven partner, Tara..lol)
- Hoch bought stock at higher than the current price and owns 14%
- Production starting this quarter at Moris mine JV with Hoch (30% to EXM) at 3000tpd (RVNG's 150 tpd mill is puny by comparison)
- Moris land package is 73,000+ Hectares. Ravens' La Currita is barely 1,000.
- 43-101 compliant resource of over 200k oz gold with multiple proven drill targets to increase this number
- positive working capital (unlike Raven). Drilling etc to be funded out of cash flow which should be over $4mm to EXM.
- Over 10 projects covering an area of over 450,000 hectares (again, Raven has barely 1,000)
- Drilling on 8 projects in 2007 (Raven has chip samples)
Exmin puts Raven to shame. Unless Raven has the lost treasure of Cortez hidden on its property somewhere, there is no conceivable way that Raven will outperform Exmin over the long term.
See, I'm not just a hater. Just a hater of really overvalued, heavily-promoted garbage.
From the 10Q:
"We are at an early stage of development. We have the right to negotiate a license to only two technologies. Each of the ISURF Nerve Regeneration Technology and the UIUC Silicon Nanoparticle Energy Technology require significant further research, development, testing, as well as additional capital investment before we can determine whether we will elect to acquire a license to the technologies; accordingly, we cannot now project whether the ultimate results of these projects will prove successful or form the basis for a commercially viable technology or product.
...
We may not receive an exclusive license for the ISURF Nerve Regeneration Technology or the UIUC Silicon Nanoparticle Energy Technology, or obtain such licenses on terms and conditions acceptable to us.
...
The receipt of exclusive license to market the UIUC Silicon Nanoparticle Energy Technology is contingent on fulfilling the terms and conditions set forth in the UIUC Agreement. We will need to reach agreement with respect to, among other things, licensing fees, reimbursement of patents costs, royalty rates, sub-licensing fees, and agreement to UIUC’s out-of-pocket expenses. We may not be successful in negotiating a license with UIUC.
...
We may not retain all rights to developments, inventions, patents and other proprietary information resulting from any collaborative arrangements, whether in effect as of the date hereof or which may be entered into at some future time with third parties. As a result, we may be required to license such developments, inventions, patents or other proprietary information from such third parties, possibly at significant cost to us. Our failure to obtain any such licenses could have a material adverse effect on the business, financial condition and results of our operations. In particular, the failure to obtain a license could prevent us from using or commercializing our technology.
...
Our ability to compete effectively depends in part, on our ability to maintain the proprietary nature of our technologies, which includes the ability to license patented technology or obtain, protect and enforce new patents on our technology and to protect our trade secrets. Since we have not yet obtained a license to either the ISURF Nerve Regeneration Technology or the UIUC Silicon Nanoparticle Energy Technology, it is not clear what rights, if any, we may have under the ISURF Patent or the UIUC Patents.
Wow, nice article. Buyer beware.
I saw your post, Frankie. I can understand your bitterness about this board and this stock. If I had been sucked in by all the hype, I'd be bitter too.
Btw, did you seen the news today? They're preparing a 43-101....with a credit card and chip samples, it would appear. They sure are a resourceful bunch.
Frankie, here's a quick rule of thumb. If a company advertises a product in the newspaper, it's probably not a scam. If a company's stock is advertised in the newspaper, it's probably is a scam.
IBM? Uh, they advertise products. Not a scam.
RCAU? They advertise their stock. <insert skull and crossbones graphic here>
As for my p/l on this stock, that is irrelevant to the current discussion but you should be able to figure it out.
NY Times exposes penny stock newspaper advertising
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/05/business/media/05adco.html?_r=3&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin
Raven isn't mentioned but definitely fits the pattern.
10Q out a couple weeks ago. (edited version)
The good: $5.8mm revenue
The bad: $400k gross margin (less than 7%)
The ugly: $53.3mm loss (mostly debt conversion)
162 MILLION shares outstanding and that doesn't even include the 500 hundred million shares owed to UPDA upon conversion of their preferred shares.
So let's review:
Mkt cap: $480 MILLION (based on current shares outstanding)
Mkt cap (fully diluted): $2 BILLION
Wafer-thin margins, and loss
NEGATIVE Book value
Price/sales: 85x
UPDA's convertible stake was valued by CFUL at $5,000,000 (see below). At the current share price, it's "worth" $1,500,000,000.
This stock is overvalued by at least 100x and is quite possibly the most overvalued stock anywhere in the world. Congrats, CFUL shareholders!
From the 10q:
On April 23, 2007, the Company closed a business combination transaction pursuant to a Stock Purchase Agreement dated April 20, 2007, by and among the Company and Universal Property Development and Acquisition Corporation (“UPDA”), a publicly held Nevada corporation (the “SPA”). Pursuant to the SPA, the Company acquired one hundred percent (100%) of the capital stock of US Petroleum Depot, Inc. and Continental Trading Enterprizes, Inc. f/k/a UPDA Texas Trading (the “Subsidiaries”), two private Nevada Corporations and wholly-owned subsidiaries of UPDA. The consideration paid by the Company for the Subsidiaries consisted of $2,500,000 in cash, payable within 30 days of the Effective Date, and 50,000 shares of our Series A Convertible Preferred Stock valued at $5,000,000 (the “Preferred Stock”). The Preferred Stock is currently convertible into 500,000,000 shares of our common stock and UPDA has the right to vote the shares of Preferred Stock on an “as converted” basis in any matters for which the holders of our common stock are entitled to vote.
Also on April 23, 2007, the Company completed the issuance of 50,000 shares of our Series A Convertible Preferred Stock (the “Preferred Stock”) to UPDA in a private transaction (the “Issuance”). The 50,000 shares of our Preferred Stock issued in the Issuance were valued at $5,000,000 under the terms of the SPA. On that date, the Company had approximately 149,815,833 shares of common stock issued and outstanding. As a result of the issuance of the Preferred Stock to UPDA, on an “as converted” basis, UPDA has the power to vote 500,000,000 shares of our common stock. Therefore, UPDA currently has the power to control the vote of approximately 77% of the common stock of the Company.
No, it doesn't matter. In the long-run, we're all dead anyway, right? Amazing how they can keep running this thing without raising cash. You're not the least bit curious about this, frankie?
10Q out a couple weeks ago.
The good: $5.8mm
The bad: $400k (less than 7%)
The ugly: $53.3mm loss (mostly debt conversion)
162 MILLION shares outstanding and that doesn't even include the 500 hundred million shares owed to UPDA upon conversion of their preferred shares.
So let's review:
Mkt cap: $480 MILLION (based on current shares outstanding)
Mkt cap (fully diluted): $2 BILLION
Wafer-thin margins, and loss
NEGATIVE Book value
Price/sales: 85x
UPDA's convertible stake was valued by CFUL at $5,000,000 (see below). At the current share price, it's "worth" $1,500,000,000.
This stock is overvalued by at least 100x and is quite possibly the most overvalued stock anywhere in the world. Congrats, CFUL shareholders!
From the 10q:
On April 23, 2007, the Company closed a business combination transaction pursuant to a Stock Purchase Agreement dated April 20, 2007, by and among the Company and Universal Property Development and Acquisition Corporation (“UPDA”), a publicly held Nevada corporation (the “SPA”). Pursuant to the SPA, the Company acquired one hundred percent (100%) of the capital stock of US Petroleum Depot, Inc. and Continental Trading Enterprizes, Inc. f/k/a UPDA Texas Trading (the “Subsidiaries”), two private Nevada Corporations and wholly-owned subsidiaries of UPDA. The consideration paid by the Company for the Subsidiaries consisted of $2,500,000 in cash, payable within 30 days of the Effective Date, and 50,000 shares of our Series A Convertible Preferred Stock valued at $5,000,000 (the “Preferred Stock”). The Preferred Stock is currently convertible into 500,000,000 shares of our common stock and UPDA has the right to vote the shares of Preferred Stock on an “as converted” basis in any matters for which the holders of our common stock are entitled to vote.
Also on April 23, 2007, the Company completed the issuance of 50,000 shares of our Series A Convertible Preferred Stock (the “Preferred Stock”) to UPDA in a private transaction (the “Issuance”). The 50,000 shares of our Preferred Stock issued in the Issuance were valued at $5,000,000 under the terms of the SPA. On that date, the Company had approximately 149,815,833 shares of common stock issued and outstanding. As a result of the issuance of the Preferred Stock to UPDA, on an “as converted” basis, UPDA has the power to vote 500,000,000 shares of our common stock. Therefore, UPDA currently has the power to control the vote of approximately 77% of the common stock of the Company.
Chip samples!!!!!! Ask your favorite mining guru about chip samples.
Nonsense. This is about USA Today. This is about mailers. This is about phony volume. The notion that all stocks are scams and none is any more legit than any other is a logical fallacy and a cop out.
If it's the truth, it ain't bashing. And whether people can short this garbage is irrelevant. Most people wouldn't anyway nor should they. Traders trade these long because they have artificially-created volume and momentum. The smart and the nimble escape with profits. The promoters make the big money. The market makers and shorts make money too. But it should be obvious that everyone can't be making money in a stock like QEGY. No, there are losers. Stuckholders. People that have been fooled into thinking that what started as a trade has now become an "investment". Whether you admit it or not, you are helping to create stuckholders.
Your charity is to be commended. What that has to do with my posts here escapes me, however. There was a time when the SEC was more active in rooting out otc stock fraud but they've effectively relinquished that role. Add this backdrop to Reg SHO and we how have a new golden age for stock promotion and fraud. Sorry, but I have a problem with that. Whether you believe it or not matters not to me and I certainly don't have to answer to you. I do have one question for you, though. Are your posts always consistent with your positions and trading activity?
It's only been 2 1/2 months. The stock peaked twice and in the 1.70s and is now down about 30% from those highs. In light of the massive (very expensive) promotion, you're impressed with that performance?
As for my position, I've said many times that I have a short position (at an average much higher than the current price, I might add) and I trade around the position. So yes, I do have a vested interest interest in seeing this go down. I also had a vested interest in QEGY, TNEN, RCAU, BZCN, HYPF, EVCC, and PLRO and anyone who took my advice on those boards saved themselves most of their money.
Uh, yeah. Smart investors/traders always telegraph their moves with huge bids and increase the bid even when they don't need to.
This stock has traded like a bazillion shares over the past couple months. It's been fax blasted. It's been spammed. It's been the subject of a mailer (one that failed to disclose compensation which is illegal, btw). It's been advertised in the USA Today, the New York Times, the LA Times and numerous others. It's been promoted by websites. It's been advertised on CNBC. On top of this, the company has issued numerous highly promotional press releases. And what is the net result of all this? The stock is basically flat since the hype began. Not a good performance for a stock with near zero float when this all started.
I have both bought and sold today. Just my opinion but I don't think there was any short attack today. When EDGX/ARCA bidder is there, people pile in. When they aren't, the bids disappear.
As for my agenda, I have an overactive sense of justice; I hate to see the people behind stocks like these walk away with millions of dollars. The fact that I can profit as stocks like QEGY (and Raven at some point) collapse is a nice bonus.
Everything I post is factual and relevant. I readily acknowledge that these stocks can go higher and that nimble traders can buy them profitably.
Modern, I've seen you trade in the smallcap room. You're a smart guy and a good trader so I have a question for you. Why does someone repeatedly advertise a huge bid and move it up into the ask? It isn't to accumulate stock. As a keen follower of the tape, I think you will readily admit that this doesn't trade like a real stock at all.
Yes, you are.
No, I'm not.
Yes, you are.
No, I'm not.
Sheesh, I feel like I'm back in 3rd grade. Sorry but "you are creating confusion" does not constitute an argument.
Gloat all you want about Raven's move today. It changes nothing.
Frankie,
You're confusing the income statement with the balance sheet. Many companies run deficits (losses) for many years. The only reason they are able to do this is because they have strong balance sheets; they have cash. Raven has no cash and $2 million in debt. Plus, they are losing money and need to make large expenditures for drilling. Where is the cash going to come from?
As for the volume, they trade these otc stocks back and forth to create the impression of investor interest. It's all part of the con. Read any SEC release on otc stock fraud. Do you really think that large bid on EDGX or ARCA that pops up every time the stock runs is legit?
I do trade RVNG, but always with the thought in mind that this is a pump-and-dump imo and that this stock will completely collapse in the same way that QEGY did. I posted lots of warnings on that one and it fell 85% in a month earlier this year.
Hey, if your game is scalping a dime or two a week on this, more power to you. Just don't try to tell me that this is some great mining company or that all early stage companies have these same warts because it just isn't so.
With what cash? Raven's working capital deficit is over $2 million. I'll guess they'll just borrow more money from Shull. He has a real knack for making money...at everyone else's expense.
http://www.stockhideout.com/buyer-beware/5642-market-scams-two-197.html#post62998
When stock promoters land in trouble they generally disappear from public view, never associating their names with public companies again. This ensures any new promotions are not linked with past transgressions.
Such does not appear to be the case with Robert Shull, a Penticton area promoter indicted for market manipulation in 1998. Regulatory and government records hint he is still involved in stocks, with his name linked to at least two public companies.
Ten years ago Mr. Shull attracted much attention from regulators and prosecutors, who were looking at Fairmont Resources Inc., a junior oil and gas promotion listed on the Alberta Stock Exchange.
According to court filings he and Leonard Fiessel, a former Canarim Investment Corp. broker, bought a controlling interest in Fairmont in the early 1990s and manipulated the stock from 30 cents to $3.10. Prosecutors said they paid brokers $540,000 in kickbacks to induce 150 investors to buy 1.22 million shares of the company.
Their actions drew charges from the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, the B.C. Securities Commission, and the U.S. District Attorney in Massachusetts.
Mr. Shull agreed to pay $667,770 to settle the SEC's allegations, and a judge ordered that Mr. Fiessel pay $1-million. They were never banned from dealings with public companies, however.
The BCSC sought to ban them in 2000 when it filed a notice of hearing against the pair, but later dropped its case without saying why.
U.S. prosecutors unsuccessfully tried to extradite Mr. Shull and Mr. Fiessel to face criminal fraud charges over Fairmont in 1999. The promoters were undoubtedly relieved when a B.C. judge ruled that key evidence was inadmissable and refused their extradition.
The U.S. has not closed the criminal case, but prosecution may be unlikely, with the Fairmont indictment now nine years old.
Raven Gold
Recent regulatory filings show Mr. Shull may have a role with Raven Gold Corp., a junior explorer with interests in Mexico listed on the OTC Bulletin Board.
According to a quarterly report, a private company of which Mr. Shull is a director lent Raven $50,000 last June. Raven did not disclose Mr. Shull's name, but government records show he became a director of the private company, RPMJ Corporate Communications Ltd., in April, 2005.
Another private company of which he now is a director, Zander Investments Ltd., lent Raven $225,000 for property acquisitions in 2006. Government records show Mr. Shull became a director of Zander this January, after the loan.
Raven started trading last September, and has mostly been a thin trader. It split 2:1 last month.
Attempts to contact the company were not successful. Its phone number leads to an accountant's office in Penticton, a small town 47 minutes from Mr. Shull's home in Osoyoos. Nobody there seemed to know how to contact Raven.
Koko Petroleum
Another stock in which Mr. Shull appears to have at least a minor role is Koko Petroleum Ltd., which the SEC recently suspended in Operation Spamalot, a crackdown on spam stocks. Koko purports to look for oil in Texas. It hit a $2.50 high in 2005 as spammers touted the stock, but has since fallen to five cents.
The company denies Mr. Shull has any official role, but Internet records show he registered its website, kokooil.com, in April, 2004. Nobody at the company could explain why.
"He has no official role [with Koko], but I believe he's a shareholder," says Andrea Bleasdale, a company spokesman who also works in Penticton. Regulatory filings show Mr. Shull's wife, Patricia, controlled five million shares of Koko through private companies in 2005.
Spam e-mails touted Koko from September, 2005, to May, 2006, according to the website Spamnation. It was one of 35 companies named in Operation Spamalot. Koko denied having anything to do with the spam.
Koko has since moved to a new domain, KOKO Petroleum, which is not in Mr. Shull's name.
Mr. Shull did not comment on this story. Contacted at his home in Osoyoos, he said he would prefer to answer questions via e-mail, but did not respond to a subsequent e-mail from Stockwatch. Other OTC-BB stocks list Mr. Shull's wife Patricia as a shareholder, either directly or through private companies, but Mr. Shull does not appear to have a role with those companies.
"chip samples"
ROFL
The only time this stock moves is when the promoter starts jamming it with big bids. As soon as he pulls the bid, the stock falls back. There is no interest for Raven. Everybody is hoping to get bailed out by the "greater fool". Good luck. Btw, did you have a look at the 10q? Fugly.
PSEG is the next stock being promoted by this guy.
Today? They still flogging it, eh. You have a link?
You're gonna have to work a lot harder to get this moving. There is zero interest in this stock.