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All cheap stocks will ALWAYS have a problem, that's why they are cheap in first place. But most people will over react to these problem, that's when
I scoop in to profit from folly.
Here's your quote
At that point dilution (disregarding compensation shares etc) should have ended if SIAFs expectations are met
600K shares issued for "compensation", and 600K shares issued for "financing" have both the same effect to O/S and both considered dilution. So I wouldn't go as far as saying that the dilution has ended, especially if you believe there will be dilution from compensation shares going forward.
At that point dilution (disregarding compensation shares etc) should have ended if SIAFs expectations are met.
My tips/rules would be this
1) Don't invest in start-ups. Companies are publicly listed because they need to raise money, not to make you rich. Chances are you will be diluted to scraps long before you see any return on your investment. That's the reality of things even if you invest in a superior technology.
2) Rule number 2 is again about financing. Look at convertible notes with a substantial discount (toxic debt). I don't need the MA200 to tell me that these stocks will go down. I can predict it beforehand. The reason why SIAF hasn't performed is also due to a a lack of proper financing. The difference between SIAF and most companies is, we expect it to end. We expect management to get their act together.
3) Look at free cash flow. Companies that don't have it are quite vulnerable (for instance when attacked by the shorts).
4) Rule number 4 would be, even if you get everything right, you still won't make any money if you are unlucky. Look at special case stocks. Special dividends, spin-offs, uplistings, mergers etc. That's where the money is, IMO.
5) Also look at growth. Although it is very hard to predict for most companies, it can be done for some.
And investing everything in a stock who trades on otc with a really bad (world record) management who let the stock drop 96%, even though the fundamentals looked pretty good 15x this share price, well allow me to laugh.
A risky stock is still risky even if it goes up 100% in two weeks, if the fundamentals change yes of course you can have it longer without selling a portion of your holdings, but you never know what’s around the corner in these stocks...things can always go south as soon as it went north.
Of course good companies with a good management will cost more, ask any longtimers in here if they wish they would have bought any of the large P/E50+ S&P stocks or Siaf 8 years ago. Apple was expensive back then, but has a cheaper P/E now right?
The MA200 rule is not bad and would save a lot of headache if everyone used it
if you’re saying something else then you haven’t been investing long enough. It’s just to take a look at every crash, stock or market, if you happen to sell out if it goes below ma200 and then the next week goes over it so you will have to buy it back, have you lost anything then?
Without goals, what are you investing for? Goals are always a good way to keep it together in the long run and it feels good when you’re succeeding.
And yes, MA200 is lagging, and you could have sold earlier and just pivoting right? Hopefully it won’t turn up again, buy and sell on feeling or wait for the next Q report, that’s when you’re dead meat on the stock market. And I don’t think we should talk day trading with a newbie. Fundamentals change fast sometimes especially in companies like this, and information will always reach out to the market somehow.
Instead of commenting my reply, make yourself useful and share some of your experience and way to work
Just keep in mind what you wish you have heard when you were a newbie. (I’m assuming you have some sort of track record yourself, in both bull and bear market)
I would recommend you to diversify, find 10 stocks that you really believe in long-term, then sort out 3 of them. If you have more than $300k to invest, then find 15 and take away 5...
if you have more than a million to invest then you should probably have at least 15 companies in your portfolio. And of course, diversify over different sectors.
If you'd like to start buying now, you should probably start buying monthly over the next 15 months. In that way, you will average down if the market goes down.
Buy companies with positive cash flow, companies who will survive a really bad year and/or something unexpected, they should have a good track record, great management, and it's nice if they give out dividends, but it's not the most important thing.
You should follow the trends in all stocks/sectors and if they break below MA200 reduce your risk, and add if they go above it.
Remember if you reduce your holdings and are even totally unvested for a while, that that is also a position for you in order to buy cheaper in the future.
It's fun to have some riskier bets as well of course, like Siaf, but keep them below 15% in total of your portfolio.
If a risky bet has paid off and doubled, reduce some of your exposure and keep the rest in the stock. Try not to get greedy if you're seeing a parabolic movement in a stock or in the market.
Try to set up goals, like beat the market with 10% or 15% yearly
don't be sad if your portfolio drops 30% and the market drops 40% in a year
Sino Agro Food Inc. has not timely disclosed inside information about the Company’s arrangements for issuance of Common Shares as security for various loans and trade finance facilities pursuant to section 3.1.1 of the Continuing Obligations of companies admitted to trading on Merkur Market. Companies admitted to trading on Merkur Market are subject to a duty of disclosure that requires them to publicly disclose without delay and on their own initiative inside information that concerns the company directly.
In addition, the Company has not timely disclosed increases of its authorized share capital and issuances of new Common Shares in accordance with the Continuing Obligations of companies admitted to trading on Merkur Marke
The point in what? Qualifying twice? A lot of folks are already fully invested. But if you sell on Merkur and buy on OTC then you can qualify twice.
No, it is not that easy. Because FINRA decided it is better to keep us guessing and throw the unwary investors under a bus.
Yes, of course. We have something like 22M shares on Merkur and 27M on OTC (including 8.4M collateral).
It's pretty obvious what is going on. People are selling on Merkur and buying back on OTC, so you qualify twice for the dividend.
This will keep Merkur under pressure for a while. Also, people are anticipating a further drop there. It should recover in a few weeks when we go ex on OTC.
I'm pretty sure there won't be any TRW-trades close to 3,41 usd on the "trading website" for a while. Yes you can use 3,41 usd..., and yes you could argue for a value much lower than that if that is more beneficial. Similarly there is often liquidity rebates on OTC stocks and unlisted companies (in Norway), and there is no way 3,41 is real market value per today.
If you really insist you can also claim that your SIAF shares should be booked at 13 USD (or whatever the equity pr share is). But why do that?
For your personal account. In the Netherlands there is also a wealth tax.
I was curious also so I called the Dutch Tax Agency. It is not income for us (because it is a dividend) but it is taxable as wealth. Because we have a wealth tax in the Netherlnds. And they said I have to book the "true economic value". Hard to translate from Dutch (waarde in het economisch verkeer).
There is also a 400-page document available on their website. And it says I can use historic cost because it is objective and can easily be verified by accountants. I think this means $3.40 per TRW share.
But the woman on the phone told me something else. I think what this means is, if they sell TRW shares to pre-IPO investors for a higher price than $3.40, then I have to use that price. Because that is the true value economically. Should also apply to you guys.
How do I book my 100 000 SIAFs share:
Exactly right. If you own shares on Merkur then you can book it now.
No, YOU are making this stuff up. Show me one line, one rule, anywhere in the world where it says an ex-date is valid after the close of business. There isn't any, because you made it up.
An ex-date has a date. NOT a time. You qualify on that date even if you sell your shares on that date. The time is irrelevant.
You are making this stuff up. Either the ex-date is deferred or it is not. If it is not, then the ex-date should be Oct 30. TODAY. As did Oslo. But, FINRA hasn't announced the ex-date yet.
You are ignoring both sets of rules and giving it your own twist
The shares in the Company will trade exclusive of the right to receive Distribution Shares today, 30 October 2018.
So do I. However, according to post 148122 from ValueInvestor01, then the ex-date is today AFTER the market is closed. If that is the case (which I doubt), then you have lost the dividend from the shares you just sold. Scary.
If I understand it correct, it's also too late to buy new shares on OTC today in order the receive the dividend? Otherwise it's a great buying opportunity at OTC.
I'm not sure what you are planning to do.
The way things look now, there is a pretty good chance (>80%) that you still qualify for the dividend if you buy the stock on OTC BEFORE Nov 15.
And there's a pretty good chance (>80%) that you already qualified for the dividend in Oslo.
So what you could do, with a third of your shares, is sell them in Oslo and buy them back on OTC. That's what I would do, if I had some shares on Merkur. You qualify TWICE.
Of course the situation can change again any minute if we get news from somewhere.
https://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/read_msg.aspx?message_id=144540116
They just made it clear below, that the Record Date is "31 October 2018" and the Ex-Date is "30 October 2018." The Ex-Date "30 October 2018" is today after the market is closed which is BEFORE the Record Date "31 October 2018."
Reference is made to the announcement made by Sino Agro Food Inc. (SIAF or the Company) on 8 October 2018 regarding the distribution of shares in Tri-Way Industries (the Distribution Shares) to shareholders of record 31 October 2018 (the Record Date). The shares in the Company will trade exclusive of the right to receive Distribution Shares today, 30 October 2018.
Wrong about what? Misleading who?
To sum up, what I have said so far.
Be careful with dividend dates. For distributions > 25% special rules (deferred ex-dates) apply on OTC. Which means the ex-date will most likely be AFTER the record date (one day after the pay date), NOT BEFORE the record date.
If you want to play this safe then you have to hold on to your SIAF shares until nov 15. This is a reality and a fact. Even if the company/FINRA/Oslo bors tells you otherwise.
And keep an eye on the FINRA announcements. They will set the ex-date.
Okay but my point is that that it is your own responsibility to check the real facts. RD tried to help from past experience and you are trolling him
Someone has to do the dirty work. And in this case you shouldn't expect much help from the company, FINRA, or anyone else.
Please understand that from the beginning RD just tried to explain that you have to be careful with dividend rules. It's not always reliable and it's as simple as that
My statement is not wrong. I never addressed the Oslo borse specifically. I said how it works for OTC and FINRA.
In Oslo, not on OTC. FINRA hasn't even announced the ex-date yet.
And still, you can't rely on that statement from Oslo Borse. If they made a mistake or change their mind, there will be no recourse if you sell your SIAF shares too soon.
The ex-dividend date is normally two business days before the record date. If you purchase a stock on or after its ex-dividend date, you will not receive the next dividend payment. Instead, the seller gets the dividend. If you purchase before the ex-dividend date, you will get the dividend.
I explained the exchange rules for OTC/Nasdaq and the specific case for SIAF. In which case we will have a deferred ex-date and the ex-date will be AFTER the record date, not before. You studied it, so you know about it.
https://investinganswers.com/financial-dictionary/income-dividends/ex-dividend-date-2121
The ex-dividend date is the day on which all shares bought and sold no longer come attached with the right to receive the most recently declared dividend.
The shares in the Company will trade exclusive of the right to receive Distribution Shares today, 30 October 2018.
Tri-Way Industries (the Distribution Shares) to shareholders of record 31 October 2018 (the Record Date).
If you're going to quote me, then do so. But don't put words in my mouth.
I explained the exchange rules for OTC/Nasdaq and the specific case for SIAF. In which case we will have a deferred ex-date and the ex-date will be AFTER the record date, not before. You studied it, so you know about it.
Reference is made to the announcement made by Sino Agro Food Inc. (SIAF or the Company) on 8 October 2018 regarding the distribution of shares in Tri-Way Industries (the Distribution Shares) to shareholders of record 31 October 2018 (the Record Date). The shares in the Company will trade exclusive of the right to receive Distribution Shares today, 30 October 2018.
In Oslo... the ex-date is TODAY. You already qualified for the dividend.
But how could it be so unclear that we did not even know today is the last day