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There was a multifaceted attempt by SA and GT and others to hype the stock back in this time frame.....and it was VERY successful! This looks like one of the many ploys...at least as a Monday morning QB.
Anyone familiar with the FDA's bureaucracy would have realized that it was years away and DD would have uncovered multiple companies chasing the same technology.
My guess is that GT realized that keeping the brain trust together
would make the sale more valuable. Patents only go so far...they don't include the "tricks" typically needed to get "it" to work.
As I have said ...Hyperion was a solution looking for a problem...at least in Silicon. It needed to be integrated into a totally new process that did not exist and the economics were not there. Even Sapphire was a stretch in that it needed to be scaled up to make large enough parts for screens and medical was a pipe dream....my opinion.That needed a GE or Siemens or other large player to be viable.
Apparently Smick and Co. believe that they have a path to a product. We will have to wait and see. Maybe another long shot investment opportunity!!
Apple has almost infinitely deep pockets so getting Hyperion to work for Sapphire is at least plausible. I do not fully understand the physics behind scaling the technology but to get from a 2" diameter part to something large enough for an iPhone screen is not a trivial task. The energy required is not a linear function so to double the area takes WAY more than 2X the energy.
Also the economic viability is not clear. The ROI and payback may not make sense.
Apple has some patents on laminated screens but again ...having a patent and having a process are quite different.
It looks like "Neutron Therapeutics" may be medically oriented so I am not sure of how Apple might be involved unless there is a licensing agreement in play with Apple exclusively for sapphire exfoliation.
There are some people here that believe that there is still some backroom talks between GT and Apple. This deal would seem to discount that play.
Well...if you are dying of starvation today the potential of a full course meal in six months is worthless. Not sure if the terms of the original acquisition of Twin Creeks was ever made public but it could have been in shares of GT stock!!
Hyperion is only one piece of a very complicated puzzle. By itself it is essentially useless....at least in the PV sector.
I do not believe that there is any PV line that can use the thin , exfoliated Silicon output of Hyperion. It requires the development of a totally new process line to include handling the thin, fragile sheets, laminating them to a low cost substrate, determining how to connect them electrically (Merlin...maybe)
This is a couple of years and several 100 million $ to accomplish. Also I do not believe that the economic viability of Hyperion has been demonstrated. Technical feasibility and Economic viability are very different.
As far as Sapphire is concerned the only demonstration of it was one picture of a sheet exfoliated from a 2" Sapphire core...maybe OK for a watch but way too small for a cover glass on a phone. As with Silicon I believe that the cut surface needs secondary processing before it is usable in the final application.
Medical applications is years away and there are several companies with a head start.
I am not saying that it has no value but whoever has it must have deep pockets and time as it will take both to get this to market for any application.
Check out 1366 Technology . That is more likely than Spire.
1366 is an MIT spinoff that has been developing a new PV process for several years.
That group has to be pretty thin by now. I was there for many years and there are only a couple left that I knew. One Engr going back to the 90's got cough in this latest rif.
Apple announced in Sep 2014 that the iPhone 5 would be using Gorilla Glass. Maybe it was the rest of the world that expected it to use Sapphire. It is that concept...sticking with GG... that leads to idea that Apple changed their mind.
It is plausible that GT could have gotten to Apple's expectations for yield and quality if they had had another 9 months. That would have made building inventory for the i6 release a bit unlikely.
This is pure speculation but there could be non technical reasons for a change of mind WRT Sapphire. Maybe to make Sapphire work electronically would have made after market support overly complicated...multiple configurations... or the circuitry changes would have required additional hardware redesign that did not show up on the breadboard or the functions could not be made identical enough to satisfy marketing / sales or my idea is wrong. There was some banter here that Sapphire was really not planned to be phased in until mid 2015. If so it makes you wonder why Apple played hard ball. This may have been an easy out.
You would have thought so as the report came out in May of 2013 and the agreement announced in Nov of 2013and I have to believe that GT worked with someone out side of GT to come up with the numbers. That technology was not native inside of GT I do not believe. Apple may have discounted the difficulty or were too intrigued by the scratch resistance of Sapphire. This is just another thought as to why Apple changed their mind.....conspiracy theory!!
Here is an interesting GT presentation comparing electrical properties of Sapphire to Gorilla Glass. Is it possible that it was too sensitive and difficult to change the design of the incumbent to work with Sapphire considering that 3D Touch may have been well along at that time.?
http://electronics.wesrch.com/page-summary-pdf-EL1NABM8TGWZG-sapphire-touch-performance-and-design-guidelines-for-display-cover-screens-9
Not sure how Kyma would be tied to Apple as it has to do with LED wafer deposition processing.
http://globenewswire.com/news-release/2014/02/18/611042/10068740/en/GT-Advanced-Technologies-Licenses-PVD-Technology-From-Kyma-Technologies-Inc.html
Hyperion exfoliation has some potential with Silicon PV but is only one step in a new PV cell fab line that would need to be developed. So by itself it is only proof of concept. I have never seen what size it can process..4", 5" and 6" are common sizes for PV cells. The thin exfoliated sheets need to be handled, laminated to a carrier and have collectors and buss bars added and strung together. This is way outside of GT's core competencies and would need team with a PV mfgr to develop....a lot of time and money and outside of any GT recovery time line that I can see. Also the economics of Hyperion is not known....to the outside world. What is the process time per cell and how long to prepare the exfoliated surface for another run.
Being technically possible and economically viable are quite different.
I have no idea of what MANZ was doing.
I doubt that the screen is really Sapphire. They trade marked "sapphire " in the product description for some "glitz"!!
That would have been substantially larger than the iPhone screen albeit in MUCH smaller quantities.
My point is not that Sapphire wont work but that if all your development work was done with glass then switching to sapphire could be a challenge from a schedule standpoint.
I seem to recall that there was some issues with capacitance and sapphire screens. Either too sensitive or not sensitive enough...I forget now.....but that would have really affected the 3D Touch concept if the early work was done using Gorilla glass. Not that it would be unsolvable but a real delay in incorporating it into a product.
Just read an interesting article on the iPhone 6 3D touch.
Is it possible that Apple could not get sapphire to play nice with that technology and gorilla glass was better suited to the 3D application. Given the lead time between concept inception and product release it is possible that 3D touch preceded sapphire as a concept. Does any one know what the alleged spec changes were that Apple was looking for? Is it possible that one reason that Sapphire was scuttled was 3D touch? Random thought.
The MESA chambers were essentially the same as those in Salem NH.
They were not junk as some have surmised.....but ....GT had not successfully ever grown 265 Kg boules reliably or consistently.
They may have grown a "proof of concept" as mentioned several times early on but it was not a "good" boule. THey could grow 85, 100 and 115 Kg bouls and had announced 165bKG to be available 3rd qtr 2014.
Given another 12 months or so they might have been able to refine the process. They were playing with crucible size and thickness as well as heat extraction rates and a multitude of equipment variables just from manufacturing variables. The variables do not scale linearly and it took 3 weeks to get the results of a change. They were doing trial and error testing on a production scale......75 or more machines!!!That does not build good yield numbers.
I can not believe that the Engineering / Process people bought into the schedule. That was force fed on them by TG in my opinion
I believe that the best yield were for the 85 Kg, 100Kg and 115Kg boules.They announced the 165 Kg in May of 2014 with an availability in the 3rd QTR of 2014.
http://investor.gtat.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=845390
They launched MESA with the 265 Kg boule without a proven recipe which was a huge gamble as we all now know. The 165Kg was not proven then and they were going for the 265 which realistically was 12 months out to get it right.
So ...yes they were using a far from stable recipe.
There was ample power from the public utility to run all the furnaces. What was missing was emergency, off grid backup should there be a loss of public utility power...which did happen at least once from what I heard.
In Salem NH GT had a HUGE battery bank that would keep the electronics running while several diesel generators came up to speed to power the heating elements that consumed 95% of the power needs.
Apple did not fund this part of the emergency backup power.
Gross yields were terrible. Losses from loss of cooling and power were part of the yield issue but even factoring out those losses yields were still pretty poor such that the economic goals could not be reached.
See Dave Keck's PPT presentation of 2014. May give some insight as to where GT is going.(page 11)
http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/AMDA-1AHIQM/3056099923x0x734196/f59c2b85-2224-4c4d-8368-ae5d63f19365/GT%20Advanced%20Technologies%20New%20Product%20and%20Technology%20Briefing.pdf
There must be some high salaries someplace: 40% of 250 employees...probably high...into $20M is $200000 per employee on average. Seems like those names should have leaked out by now if the reduction is over. This may include projected bonuses and options??!!!
There is a conflict between the 2 releases and NHBR states 40% labor reduction and not operating exp.
There is no doubt that there is internal stiff as Keck was not hired by TG , as I said in an earlier post.
DS was his hand picked successor and I would not be at all surprised if he leaves in this wave. TG had several new direct reports in the last year so they may be at risk as well.
Keck is a Silicon man by experience and career path and did not strike me as a game player....straight shooter.
http://www.nhbr.com/September-4-2015/GTAT-cuts-workforce-by-another-40-percent/
Maybe not so biased being a NH magazine??
A 40% reduction in operating expenses after all that has taken place seems pretty extreme.
It may include other areas besides Merrimack. Maybe the Mesa activity is nearing completion and some big paychecks there will be dropped. Crating furnaces should not require too many top execs!!
Merlin: Does any one really know what the revenue stream is based on? Hardware or licensing fees. I do not think that GT is making this equipment...so My assumption is a licensing fee.
http://web.stanford.edu/group/mcgehee/presentations/McGehee's%202014%20Energy%20Seminar.pdf
This is an interesting article on Si PV with some current and projected manufacturing cost. See pages 9 and 10.
Merlin will have an affect on the "Metal paste" portion which is 0.44% of the projected cost of a module in 2020. Merlin is supposed to reduce this cost by something like 1/3d so all things being equal that part of the cost will decrease to about 0.3%
GT's revenue stream will be based on that part of the equation and not on Waree's gross revenue so although it has potential it is not a big part of the solution.
Merlin was acquired when GT bought Thermal Technologies I believe and that has been sold off. GT's core competencies ....its roots going back to Gupta and Talbot was crystal growth. They dabbled with wire saws, Stringer / tabbers and a few other ancillary technologies with little success and Merlin is an ancillary technology with respect to GT's roots.
Hyperion seemed like a better fit with respect to exfoliating single crystal Silicon for PV at least from a technology standpoint. Apparently the economics were daunting to get it to full commercialization.
FWIW
As I also posted here several months ago several of TG's past employers declared BK after he left.
Netsurfer Sunday, 01/04/15 07:53:56 AM
Re: XenaLives post# 19997
Post # of 33826
Not sure there is any connection but it may be worth some digging.
There is a long shadow. Seed are planted long before the harvest.
Maybe just a string of coincidences.
http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?ID=215210
http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/stories/2010/05/24/daily35.html
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2001/jul/25/3
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB1010396490400469000
xerium technologies inc (XRM:New York)
Last $14.71 USD
Change Today -0.2875 / -1.92%
Volume 22.3K
XRM On Other Exchanges
As of 2:06 PM 08/14/15 All times are local (Market data is delayed by at least 15 minutes).
Executive Profile*
Thomas Gutierrez
Age Total Calculated Compensation This person is connected to 18 board members in 3 different organizations across 5 different industries.
See Board Relationships
66 $5,283,827
Background*
Mr. Thomas Gutierrez, also known as Tom, serves as the Chief Executive Officer and President at GTAT Corporation (formerly, GT Solar Inc.). Mr. Gutierrez is Founder of PhytoChem Pharmaceuticals. He served as the Chief Executive Officer and President of GT Advanced Technologies Inc. from October 28, 2009 to August 10, 2015. Mr. Gutierrez has over 35 years of experience in Product Development, Manufacturing, Marketing, Sales and General Business Management. He served as the President and Chief Executive Officer of Xerium Technologies Inc. from January 2001 to February 7, 2007 and served as its Chief Operating Officer from August 2001 to January 2002. He served as the Chief Operating Officer of Pulse Engineering, Inc. from 1992 to 1994. He served as the Chief Executive Officer of Invensys Power Systems, a subsidiary of Invensys plc from 1995 to July 2001. From December 1997 to December 1998, he served as the Chief Executive Officer of Exide Electronics, a division of a predecessor of Invensys Power Systems. He has held management, technical and engineering positions with Franklin Computer Corporation and Digital Equipment Corporation. He has a strong international background having launched and led organizations in Asia, Europe, and throughout the U.S. Mr. Gutierrez has also held several executive officer positions with Pitney Bowes, Inc. from 1985 to 1992 and Motorola, Inc., from 1981 to 1984. He has been an Independent Director of Verso Paper Corp. since November 2008. Mr. Gutierrez has been a Director at GT Advanced Technologies Inc. since October 28, 2009. He serves as a Director for Verso Paper Holdings LLC., PhytoChem Pharmaceuticals and GTAT Corporation. He served as a Director of Veeco Instruments Inc. from December 20, 2010 to September 20, 2001. He served as a Director of Comverge, Inc. from January 23, 2009 to February 12, 2010. He served as an Executive Director of Xerium Technologies Inc. from January 2002 to February 11, 2007. Mr. Gutierrez holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Electrical Engineering from the Florida Institute of Technology.
Collapse Detail
As I also posted here several months ago several of TG's past employers declared BK after he left.
Netsurfer Sunday, 01/04/15 07:53:56 AM
Re: XenaLives post# 19997
Post # of 33826
Not sure there is any connection but it may be worth some digging.
There is a long shadow. Seed are planted long before the harvest.
Maybe just a string of coincidences.
http://courts.delaware.gov/opinions/download.aspx?ID=215210
http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/stories/2010/05/24/daily35.html
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2001/jul/25/3
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB1010396490400469000
We will never know "the rest of the story" as Paul Harvey would say but "Retirement" is subjective. In any case he left a very wealth man and cost a lot of people a significant portion of their net worth. I am surprised that it took this long for him to leave ....or ......fill in the blanks.
Some people say he "saved the company" . If setting the building on fire and then putting it out is saving the company then so be it. He was supposed to be a seasoned professional and got duped.
I suspect that there were internal arguments against the Apple arrangement that were discounted. He was going for a home run when a sacrifice fly would have done the trick.
FWIW Dave Keck was not hired on TG's watch. He came in under Tom Z's watch with the acquisition of the Silicon feed stock technology. Dan S. was TG's hand picked heir apparent and was passed over so this may mean something.
I worked with Dave for several months and met with him face to face multiple times. Down to earth, no negative attitude, willing to listen to conflicting opinions and able to make a clear decision after factoring in all the inputs. He knows the Silicon / photovoltaic industry.
TG's legacy: Bought Sapphire technology with the acquisition of Crystal Systems in July of 2010. Sales skyrocketed then tanked due to economy and market saturation. Got involved with Apple and we all know the rest of that story.
Bought Confluence for $60M+ then spent another $60M on facility upgrade and HiCz pullers from Korea for another $60M+. Gross sales to date are minimal. C. Richardson, now with Rubicon, was the point person on this project.
Bought Hyperion which is now for sale. This may be a cash flow issue vs. a tactical error. We may never know.
Here is a link t the bid site. Lots 297 A thru C (Sasol Virgin stock) and 298 A thru G. (Not specified)
It is now closed and there were no bids listed.
http://www.bidspotter.com/en-us/auction-catalogues/timed/bidind/catalogue-id-bid-in10001?searchTerm=sapphire&whereToSearch=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bidspotter.com%2Fen-us%2Fauction-catalogues%2Ftimed%2Fbidind%2Fcatalogue-id-bid-in10001
Must have a broken humor filter. Still don't get it!!!
Thought it was a serious discussion on GT's involvement...or not...with Graphene.
Below is your post regarding GTAT and graphene. In the last sentence you say that GT is involved in graphene and that you are under NDA. If your NDA is not with GT then why could you not point to something on the WEB in the public domain about GT and grapheme?
Wednesday, 06/03/15 01:31:57 PM
Re: Netsurfer post# 29692
Post # of 32390
Quote:
As of early 2013 GT was not involved with graphene.
They were one of the largest consumers of grahite though and that may be the source of the confusion.
no confusion...there are documentable sources that would (do) prove the above statement wrong.
GT is involved in graphene...i'm under an nda...so look it up yourselves people....
This might be interesting to some people. She was at GTAT during the peak of the Apple saga.
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/rubicon-technology-appoints-christine-richardson-phd-as-chief-technology-officer-2015-04-01
At today's market close GT was value at $23M.
If the IP and market potential is worth as much as conjecture here has it why doesn't some company buy it....$23M is round off error and for a relatively small premium they might get it less the liabilities.
Thoughs , comments?
Yep...That be it!!
Zena's post 30737 is a good read as well. The drop in silicon prices has been the demise of several PV operations. Solyndria sp?
Hyperion was bought from the BK trustees of Twin Creeks Technology.
Its stated function was to exfoliate Silicon for PV applications. Although similar technology is used in the medical arena that was not the reason for the purchase and an after thought to generate PR in my opinion.
Twin Creek raised $80MM from several venture capital firms and they did not see enough future value to invest additional money....to the point that they were willing to walk away.
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/Twin-Creeks-Solar-Equipment-Firm-Unstealthed-in-April-Undone-in-November
Do you know where the $100M came from? Is that the acquisition cost of the assets or what GT is carrying on its books as a value of projected proceeds of the sale?
That much highly specialized equipment put on the market all at once will drive the value down as I see it. The OEM's might be interested at a deep discount so they could potentially reconfigure it for their customer base.