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Vaporman, Thanks for the response. I'm wondering about your comment regarding the preferred's, that "the number of shares never change". In the case of VGPR, the financial statements list the preferred shares by class, and the A/S and O/S for each class. They are listed pre-conversion. You have to know the conversion rate to common, to truly know how many common shares will eventually be on the market. If VCOR preferred A's have a conversion rate of 1000 to 1, as an example, those 3.76 Million shares become 3.76 Billion shares eventually. VGPR's Private Placement was selling Class C shares that convert 2500 to 1 after a two yr. restriction.
If I'm off base here, I will defer to your opinion. You have more knowledge about such matters than I. I just want to make sure I know how many partners I have. Best of luck to you and your unicorn pick of 2015. I'm hoping you nailed it again.
RL
Just an opinion here, but I think Molen will release a PR after the close of business on Monday. That would dovetail nicely with Gaspard's 4:45pm conference call same day at VCOR. Since the messages are intertwined, my opinion again, that makes sense to me.
GLTA,
RL
Vaporman, I have great respect for your opinion and "follow" you. With that said, I still believe we need to find out the devil in the details with VCOR's preferred A shares. There are 3.76 million outstanding and if the conversion rate is anything like VGPR's, those preferred shares could add billions of shares of stock to VCOR's share structure. So we don't actually know if VCOR's S/S is THAT much better. I own both preferred and common shares of VGPR and yesterday grabbed my first shares of VCOR. I look forward to any comments from you and the C/C on Monday. Good luck to all of us.
RL
Available at OTCmarkets.com. Search VGPR or whatever. Financials, etc. are there.
RL
New investor in VCOR here. I want to thank whoever sold a Million shares @ .0071. I got in at a 25% discount. I was tempted @ .012, couldn't resist the bargain. Good luck to all of you. Very interesting story here.
RL
I understand those who want to keep this board purely VGPR. I do think, however, that the VCOR PR mentioned is imortant to VGPR shareholders. Getting approval of those samples is important because that is the biocoal that VGPR is going to be shipping in January, not sometime next year whenever Allendale is done. That is revenue coming to VGPR that would not be here in January if samples were not approved. You all may end up with some VCOR shares before this is all done also. Anyway, good luck to all of you.
RL
You guys need to find out about the "preferred A" shares on the quarterly report. There are 3.76 million listed as outstanding. You need to know the conversion rate to common, so you will know how many "partners" you have. Your slice of the pie may be way smaller than you think. VGPR's preferred shares add billions of shares to the common if converted. Could be the same thing here. Not saying it is the case, but you can't make an intelligent investment decision without knowing the conversion rate and how many shares are actually out there.
GLTA,
RL
Gator didn't "predict" anything. He simply has reported to us what he has been told. I, for one, appreciate it. No need for name calling.
GLTA,
RL
Papamoka, Just wondering about a couple of things in your post. I'm long the stock, so I'm not trying to be argumentative. You posted VGPR is in the process of building a plant. My DD can find where they have leased the land and where Knox Grant is building his wood pellet plant as a secondary lessee. No evidence yet of "building" by VGPR. Also, you mentioned that funding for expanding the plant has been achieved. What is the source of that info? I have not seen that yet. Everything I can find indicates both partners in the JV are still actively raising funds, just to get the initial small scale plant done. I would very much appreciate any info you can provide. Again, not intended to be a flame post. TIA.
GLTA,
RL
Thank you justhefax. My opinion, and it's just that, is that Agri-Tech Producers (CEO Joe James) will want to go public at some point. The three CEO's know each other. All three appeared on VGPR's August conference call (Molen, Gaspard & James). I'm guessing that some alliance between VGPR and VCOR is coming prior to anything with all three. VGPR and ATP have a joint venture to build a biocoal plant in Allendale, SC, which is supposed to open Q1, '15. Many are skeptical of that date. That's one reason VGPR looked to Gaspard for production of the order they have in hand. I think Gaspard is using the VCOR corporate shell to take Biochar Now public. All just one man's guess. Interesting situation.
GLTA,
RL
P.S.: Does anyone know the conversion rate of VCOR's preferred shares? I know the share structure of the common shares, but not how many shares of common the preferred's will convert to. TIA.
fenixinvest, There's another connection as well. In addition to Vega being mentioned, Agri-Tech Producers is mentioned. They are the joint venture partner with Vega in a biocoal plant to be completed in early 2015 in SC. The reason Vega is looking to VCOR is two fold. VCOR is ready to produce, and two, Vega's order is so large (50k ton/yr.) that the SC plant won't immediately have enough capacity. I'm a Vega investor, watching VCOR with great interest. James Gaspard, your new CEO, is highly regarded.
Best of luck to VCOR,
RL
No problem Towerclimber, you and I are in complete agreement regarding that poster.
RL
Ok, good. Thanks Btsmith. I never had any problems with TC in the past. And I've never sold any VGPR. BTW, I wonder if VCOR is Gaspard's way of taking Biochar Now public? Might be the path of least resistance for him, and he might inherit a tax loss carry-forward. A relationship with VCOR might be similar to the way Vega is doing biochar. Until we have the plant capacity ourselves, we can sell biocoal and biochar at good profit margins. Gaspard is closer to production and VGPR will be able to fill that large order sooner than waiting till late 1Q, 2015. Even then, we need more production capacity, and this deal, whatever it is, should address that until Allendale is expanded. JMHO.
GLTA,
RL
Towerclimber....What in the world was that about? That post said nothing about selling any shares.
RL
Vaporman, you posted on the VGPR board that you feel a merger is in the works, with Vega shares going in at a fraction to VCOR. If so, what do you feel happens to the preferred shares of VGPR? Same thing? I don't know if VCOR has preferred shareholders, but I know VGPR has a bunch. How does CEO Gaspard's former company, Biochar Now, fit into this? Is that coming into VCOR? Thanks in advance for any opinion.
RL
Exactly Jaxon....Molen has a $55M contract for biocoal that belongs to VGPR, not the JV. He needs to come up with 50,000 tons per year ASAP. Gaspard's new company can produce approx. 60,000 tons per year now. The JV machine can't produce enough by itself for just the VGPR order, much less anything Joe James needs and any future JV orders. They might be able to get it up to 25-30,000 tons per year by burning wood pellets rather than raw wood waste (high moisture requires longer torrefaction process), but that's not enough. This move allows VGPR to begin shipping biocoal in January, not end of March, 2015. This addresses the capacity issue for VGPR. If the $55M order wasn't legit, why would he be making the effort to expand the availability of product to ship? The JV will handle some of the production for VGPR (40% owned by VGPR), and Gaspard's company can handle production for any overflow. This also expands biochar production if new, large orders develop for that product. This could also result in a Western U.S. plant for orders to Asia, rather than shipping out of the Savannah, GA port.
JMHO, Good luck to all,
RL
Why do you assume quarterly revenues are permanently capped at 30K? First of all, quarterly revenues are nearly 50k per qtr., not 30k. The company has only been recording revenue since the 2nd qtr. of this year. They have 96k in revs in less than two full quarters. And at a plus 50% gross profit on those revs. This is a start-up that only missed recording a profit by 11k last quarter, and that is without a penny of revenue from bio-coal, which will be by far their primary product. You are taking an overly simplistic view of the situation. Quarterly revenues are going to a completely higher level in the near future, with the first sales of bio-coal. Bio-char sales should increase and other revenue streams such as toxic site clean-ups are in the future of this company as well.
GLT VGPR investors,
RL
Exactly. Gator knew this press release was coming. His work generated the clarification. There will be, in fact, "shared infrastructure" at the site (driveways, utilities, etc.). It has to proceed in an order. Give Gator credit for his hard work, driving a 2000 mile round trip instead of flying, just so we can all sit on our asses and look at a computer screen. The pics are indeed 1624 Bluff Rd., Allendale. PR #2 clarifies the activity pictured and the shared expenses aspect of the project. I'm interested in the large driers pictured in the background under the blue tarps. I'm sure they are used in the pellet mfg. process. If the JV is going to use some wood pellets instead of just undried wood scraps, perhaps capacity is expanded because the torrefaction process could be quicker if the raw material is pre-dried, thereby increasing the output per day. I also give Molen credit for clarifing and giving more transparency as to how the project is proceeding. Anything further has to come from Gator.
GLTA,
RL
I'm wondering what the reaction will be, both in the marketplace and on this board, if VGPR shows a profit for the 3rd quarter.
SealTheDeal....I believe you mentioned that you have a background in business lending. What are your thoughts about the chances of VGPR being able to leverage or capitalize the 50,000 ton per year order they have PR'ed about?
Thanks in advance,
RL
Seal the Deal, I didn't mention banks in that post. I said grants, loan guarantees, private equity, etc. I agree with you about banks. About the only way I see a bank involved is possibly with a guaranteed loan by the State. There is a lot of private money out there looking for a good home. As you correctly state, finding private money reduces the need to dilute. Like you, I consider this an investment. Your 3-5 year timeline for this company to mature is no doubt spot on, with PPS progress all along the way. Thanks for your post, and best of luck to you Seal.
RL
Agreed Hobbes that eventually a capital infusion will be needed. A profitable JV along with biochar sales will open doors. I keep looking at the loan guarantee the State of Maine approved for a start-up in their state. Twenty five million. Joe James is politically connected, has acquired difficult grants, and I'm sure will explore all avenues for capital. Between grants, loan guarantees, private equity, etc., they should be able to find a way. The fact that they aren't deeply in debt already is a plus.
The stated capacity for the full-sized torrefaction machine is 5 tons per hour and it is designed to run 24/7. That would be approx 43,000 tons/yr. The 43k plus the 13k from the initial machine, less any down time, should produce enough biocoal for the large order. You are correct that they need to add a full-sized machine. The list price is 5M, but perhaps the JV gets it for less since Joe James company produces it. I understand your disappointment with the initial capacity, but I think it can be quickly remedied next year. IMO.
GLTY Hobbes,
RL
Jaxon, Have you ever seen a start-up that has no interest expense on the income statement? People don't understand how important that is and how much it will help expansion plans in the future. Then cash can be used to buy or finance machines instead of being buried in interest expense for all the start up expenses at the local bank. Makes it much easier to be profitable. How much more home could you buy if your mortgage didn't include any interest?
GL Jaxon,
RL
DJ...addy is 1624 Bluff Rd., Allendale, SC 29810
Your post is correct if you go with the assumption that the JV is going to have only one machine, ever. Molen already mentioned in the first CC that he was looking into leveraging the order to obtain more funds. Also, grants and private equity money could come into play. They obviously need to continue to raise capital in a very capital intensive business. The Financial Authority of Maine just a month ago approved a 25M loan guarantee for a torrefaction plant in Maine. The area had high unemployment and a paper mill had closed, and they are planning to use that facility. If South Carolina would do something similar, we could definitely get more machines. Good luck to you Hobbes.
GL VGPR longs,
RL
Gator, Thanks for your continued DD and thanks for driving thru Allendale next week for more DD. Much appreciated. My opinion on the costs for the plant are that the major items will be the torrefaction machine of course and the concrete work. The building will be a minor part of the total project. Today's news listed the plant cost at 3.65M. I believe the concrete work will cost a significant amount because not only the building requires it, but the driveways into the plant will have to be able to support heavy trucks loaded with biowaste and biocoal. Putting gravel on a dirt field won't be good enough. I don't know if a rail connection is necessary or not. The prices seem about right. I owned a large self-storage facility in the past, and put up these same type buildings, although a bit smaller in scale. They do go up easily and price includes doors and all. The site prep work takes a while, but once done, the building will go up in no time. The next set of pics might not look much different, but when the building is delivered, it will be up quick. The building may have to be a bit higher, the full-sized machine is 30' tall if we are getting one of the large models.
Thanks again Gator,
RL
The Finance Authority of Maine (FAME) recently approved a 25 Million dollar loan guarantee to Thermogen Industries and Cate Street Capital to build a wood torrefaction plant at the site of an old paper mill in Maine. Would be nice if South Carolina would step up to the plate. You would have to think it's a possibility, especially as connected as Joe James is there. We have to have more than one machine to fill the kind of orders we have on hand. No wonder MM is trying to raise funds. He knows the potential.
GL VGPR longs,
RL
Great post norseman61, thanks very much. It also answers the question raised by Dank Monty about the cost of the plant...3.65 Million. Joe James is amazing, he is the difference maker. For those wondering what is different for VGPR this time around, he is your answer.
GL VGPR longs,
RL
Rudy, if that is true, the JV will make money two ways from the clean up. I imagine it would be a utility company contracting with ATP-SC for soil remediation at one or several of their coal ash ponds. We got a grant from the Sorghum group for just such a process. Also, I believe the USDA grant is at least partially to be used for soil/toxic clean up. The utility would pay us, then the biomass generated would be detoxed and used to produce biocoal. Even some of the negative posters will have to admit that getting paid twice for your biocoal is a good idea. There are over 170 toxic sites within a 75 mile radius of Allendale, according to the EPA. It wouldn't be a stretch to think that more grant money could be forthcoming. And sounds like there is plenty of cleanup work available.
GL VGPR Longs,
RL
I posted a while back that the full-sized machine would only produce 43k tons annually running 24/7. The machine is designed to do that, but obviously more than one machine is going to be necessary at Allendale. Mr. James stated in the last CC that they had more than enough room at Allendale for expansion of the plant. I'm sure the building will be designed with expansion in mind and will be big enough to add at least one additional machine if not more. It's all about raising the money. They will probably be able to sell all they can produce, so why stop at one machine? Money would be the only reason. Eventually, there should be numerous ways to address that problem if things continue to progress. I think it is far more likely that Allendale is expanded than an additional plant being built, at least near term. Hopefully the credit markets can be used soon, as opposed to endlessly selling shares. Don't forget that VGPR was within $10k last quarter of making a profit...without a cent from biocoal and only about one month's revenue from biochar. With a full quarter of biochar sales and the addition of biocoal next year, one would think bank financing or other credit markets would open up, and make additional machines do-able. As long as there is sufficient biomass (wood waste, sorghum, etc) available in Allendale, they really don't need another plant yet.
GLTA longs, and looking forward to an informative CC,
RL
Nice to be in a stock where people are worried about whether the plant will be big enough....It would be an excellent question for the conf. call.
GL Rudy,
RL
Gator, I agree that yesterday's announcement of the ground-breaking at Allendale was the most important PR the company has ever made. Maybe not the flashiest, but the most important. In my opinion, this news will filter out eventually and help the stock price. Production will be the next step, and finally financial results as step three. Each will positively affect the PPS as we move forward. I thought it was a good move on management's part to post pictures. Some on the board will always doubt the pics, the same people who probably think the moon landing was faked. But for the rational, it was important to see. As for your preferred shares not being accepted by brokers, you are probably playing it correctly by just holding and hoping for a move up to a better board. If you convert to common, you lose any advantages the preferreds have and the only thing you gain is having them in your brokerage account. If you don't plan to sell, you are probably better off holding them and see what develops. You could always contact the company, convert to common and sell on the open market, if you choose, providing the restriction period has expired. That's how it usually works.
GLTY,
RL
All good points 8hobbes9. In addition, it would be nice to know the details of the JV with Agri Tech. Are the costs of this plant and future expansion to be split 50/50 or is VGPR paying and Agri Tech running them? Are profits split evenly? Wasn't there supposed to be a purchase order for biochar from South America? And an acquisition of an export company? How many additional machines are needed at Allendale to produce enough biocoal for the order in hand? One machine (a scaled-down version at that) won't do it. Do we have the funds? I agree the relationship between VGPR and Biochar Now is confusing. I know we have an exclusive reseller agreement with them, for any industry, worldwide. But I don't understand how we expand capacity in a company we don't own. I'm sure they have a plan, but I don't recall ever hearing it. I would also like to know if future plans involve bank financing or using the credit markets somehow, instead of endlessly selling shares to finance things. If we become profitable, and we aren't far from it right now, those markets should open up. I don't mean for this to be in attack mode. I'm pleased with the direction of things. But as investors, we have a right to know.
GLTA, RL
Fliboyz, To the best of my knowledge, the JV is not going to build and sell torrefaction machines. That is what Joe James company (Agri Tech Producers,LLC) does. The JV was set up to own and operate a plant that produces and sells biocoal and other torrified products. I don't know all the details of the JV and have asked that question in the past. It would be a good topic for the upcoming conf. call this coming Sunday night. I encourage you, as someone new here, to listen to that call. The last one was very informative, and listening to Joe James and James Gaspard, well, you could hear the belief in the products and determination to make it happen. Just the fact that other CEO's (both own their own companies) were on the call was important to me, and made me feel like it wasn't just VGPR's CEO pumping the stock. Both men are highly respected in their fields. I feel the JV will continue as long as it works for both parties. I don't think Agri Tech had the funds to pull it off themselves, but they have the expertize to build and operate the plant, and Govt. connections for grants and contracts. Mr. James mentioned on the last call that the Allendale plant is easily expanded. They have leased 15 acres and that is more than enough to operate a far larger facility than the one currently underway. They have even sub-leased some of the land to a wood pellet manufacturer to reduce the lease cost. They will have to expand some at Allendale just to fill the 50,000 ton per year order currently on hand. There are also 170+ toxic sites within a short drive of the plant, that need treatment according to the EPA. That treatment will provide lg. quantities of biomass to produce coal from. They potentially make money cleaning up the sites, then use the biomass left-over to produce coal. Down the road, Mr. James has mentioned plants in other regions of the U.S. as well as overseas. His dream is to produce clean energy and clean up environmental messes, and provide employment in poor rural communities. Any additional info you can provide is always appreciated. Thanks Taemujin for providing the patent info.
Good Luck VGPR longs,
RL
Fliboyz, your posts seem sincere so I will answer as best I can. Hopefully I'm not wasting my time. In my opinion, you are over-emphasizing the patent aspect of all this. This whole story is more about demand than patents. A patent does you no good if no one wants your product. The torrefaction machine patent is held by North Carolina State University. Joe James, and his company Agri-Tech Producers, LLC have licensed the technology from NC State. Because the machine uses it's own process heat and only needs fuel at the start of the process, it is more energy efficient and produces biocoal more cheaply than competing machines. The patent and licensing info has been posted on the board in the past. This process has been patented on four continents now and there was a recent post that Agri-Tech had been awarded a new patent recently for another process. Can someone else do the same things, in a similar way? Of course. Can they do it as cheaply? Probably not. The JV is probably getting the machine at cost (since Mr. James company produces them). The land is leased, not purchased. Building doesn't need to be anything fancy. Labor costs in rural South Carolina are less than many other areas. Located on main transport lines. But the thing that impresses me is the potential demand. Clean air mandates aren't going away any time soon. Governmental assistance in the form of tax credits for utility companys and grants to companies like ours are part of the equation.
Mr. James is well-respected and he mentioned on the last C call that automotive companies have contacted him about locating a plant in the Midwest, closer to their production facilities. If you believe him, and I do, there must be a reason. Regarding the soil remediation/sorghum plants, Joe James and others have developed a variant sorghum plant that instead of growing to approx. 3 feet tall, grows to 8-9 feet tall and produces an incredible amount of biomass. This variant absorbs the toxins out of the coal ash ponds (mercury, lead, etc.) and the ash acts as a fertilizer. When the plants are harvested, the site is cleaner, then the toxins are removed in a separate process, then the sorghum biomass is used to produce biocoal. It is this process as a WHOLE that is new. It's why they are getting grant money after being vetted by the USDA and private groups. It combines cleaning the environment with producing greener energy. Politically appealing.
As for the past history of VGPR, no one can argue with you. The question is, Is that relevant now? Each of us has to answer that for ourselves. It's your money. Good luck to you sir.
GLT VGPR longs,
RL
Fliboys, just a few points. If all this is old news, how did N.C. State University get a patent for their torrefaction machine? Joe James of Agri Tech (our JV partner) has patents on four continents with more on the way. New processes are constantly being developed as well as new uses. Biochar has been mentioned as a way to increase the strength and water resistance of plastics, as well as being lighter weight. Automotive companies have been in touch with Mr. James, apparently Henry Ford didn't think of everything.Other potential applications include stronger, lighter steel and bricks and concrete. Soil remediation at toxic coal ash sites. Why did the USDA recently grant the JV a $200,000 grant for this very thing? The Sorghum growers assoc. granted $275,000 to develop soil remediation processes using that plant. And this is just the biochar side. Clean air mandates, etc. aren't going away. Your post reminds me of how the US Government nearly shut down the patent office in 1899, because "everything had already been invented".
RL
I don't fear r/s. Whether I own one share at a hundred or a hundred shares at one, it all nets out the same. It's the reason for a r/s that matters. If a r/s gets us on a better board (off the pinks) with less market manipulation, then I'm ok with it. However, I personally think a raise of authorized shares is more likely if anything is changed. That's what happened last time, and they used 200m of those shares to acquire worldwide distribution rights to Biochar Now, in any industry, not just mmj. That may turn out to be a steal.
RL
Gator, Perhaps Taemujin can help us. I believe he posted the location of the new plant earlier, marked-in on an aerial photo. If the rusted rooftops are the old Collum lumber, then they are on the left (west) side of Bluff Rd. (looking north), just south of Collum's huge new facility. There is also vacant land directly across from Collum's on the left side. The old site is within a few hundred feet of a rail line to the south, the same line that has a connector that runs into Collum's new site. Hopefully Taemujin can shed a little more light on this.
Hey Gator...I did the Google Earth thing a while back, trying to do my DD. Collum's lumber company has a rail connector running right onto their property. You can actually see where they load material by conveyor onto the rail cars (also in the photo). It's around 80-90 miles by road to the Port of Savannah. Joe James thought it all out. Locate the plant on the property of the lumber mill to eliminate the major cost of transporting the biomass to the torrefaction machines. Direct connection to the inter-modal rail line that runs directly to the Ports of Savannah and Charleston from Allendale. Collum Lumber's website also mentions the easy rail accessibility to both Ports. To the naysayers, if we can ship lumber to Europe, why not biocoal? If they have sooo many forests in Europe, why are they importing lumber? They have some resources, but not in the numbers necessary. They also have the same problems with toxic coal ash ponds that the JV has solutions for. Looking forward to getting the plant up and running and seeing how far this thing can go.
RL
fbinvestor...Of course it requires a license. In this day and age, you can't tie your shoe without a license. What makes you think that can't be accomplished? The JV has already navigated the USDA for a $200,000 grant...As a previous poster mentioned, it shows management has the resolve and knowledge to get through this difficult process. They are capable of getting done what needs to be done. Joe James has a wealth of experience in such matters. Your argument that our ships are going to self-ignite and sink is too ridiculous to respond to. Using that logic, no one would ship oil, jet fuel and planes would never leave the ground. And we better notify those European coal fired power plants to install some fire suppression equipment....I guess you're saying they hadn't ever thought of that...
RL